To put this into perspective there's no claim Volkswagen is going to be integrating Apple's autonomous system into their own vehicles, or that any working partnership goes beyond the existing purchase order.. Based on existing reports this is a contract to supply Apple some small number of vehicles with their sensing systems added to begin next stage testing (and PR of course), not unlike Waymo's "partnership" with Daimler on producing self-driving ride-sharing city shuttles. The VW Transporter isn't "the Apple car" nor is the Pacifica a Waymo one.
There may never be actual branded vehicles from either of them. Or maybe there will be one day. It's really early in the self-driving game and consumers are still meandering around the fences not sure what side to pitch their tent on. All the companies will be doing the same thing, showing off their skills in a more public way and slowly building a level of trust with you and me with these initial limited road plans.
TBH that NYT article seemed as tho it was intended just as much as click-bait as an actual news article IMO. They've mixed rumors of Apple maybe/might/someday/was going to but now isn't building a branded self driving car with this purportedly factual report of Apple contracting with VW to have a testbed special build of a few stock vehicles with requested changes that allow Apple to add their sensor and software package and rearrange the seating and controls. It's a test fleet for proof-of-concept company shuttle that allows for some good PR if all works as designed. But the NYT them pivots to "Oh Apple failed with their car plans because no good company wants to work with them and VW was their only option". Such silliness. Taking an assortment of unverified rumors and innuendo, mix with a fact or two, then use it to denigrate Apple.
Building a car would be getting way out in front of the most important part: Getting the software right. Apple ain't building a car anytime soon, if ever. The original "news" report borders on a hit-piece IMO.
There are no VW T6's in the USA, and VW have no plans to import them we've been told numerous times by VW. So this NY Times piece makes little sense.
VW providing T6 for a cooperation with Apple and VW not selling T6 in the US car market - completely unrelated.
Even Apple cannot put an 'unregulated foreign sourced' vehicle on public highways. VW did say the new electric microbus will be hitting US shores soon. I suspect this could be another factually incorrect NY Time piece, a T7 electric microbus would make more sense.
I have to wonder if some day in the future BMW may be kicking themselves (or at least those that turned Apple down).
It also occurs to me VW do happen to also own a few extra ponies in their stable that are not too shabby: Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche.
I think Volkswagen is a much better partner for Apple for many reasons.
1. Volkswagen has the coolest electric minibus ever built and with Apple technology, they would sell like iPhones. 2. Volkswagen can better afford to do this time wise using one of their subsidiaries without disrupting their existing plans. 3. Volkswagen is developing their "ID" electric vehicles from scratch instead of retrofitting. (see video below) 4. Volkswagen is probably less committed to Intel / MobileEye technologies and more willing to working with Apple.
5. Steve Jobs got the money to start Apple by selling his Volkswagen bus.
I had totally forgotten that. Great 'Circle of Life' eh?
To put this into perspective there's no claim Volkswagen is going to be integrating Apple's autonomous system into their own vehicles, or that any working partnership goes beyond the existing purchase order.. Based on existing reports this is a contract to supply Apple some small number of vehicles with their sensing systems added to begin next stage testing (and PR of course), not unlike Waymo's "partnership" with Daimler on producing self-driving ride-sharing city shuttles. The VW Transporter isn't "the Apple car" nor is the Pacifica a Waymo one.
There may never be actual branded vehicles from either of them. Or maybe there will be one day. It's really early in the self-driving game and consumers are still meandering around the fences not sure what side to pitch their tent on. All the companies will be doing the same thing, showing off their skills in a more public way and slowly building a level of trust with you and me with these initial limited road plans.
TBH that NYT article seemed as tho it was intended just as much as click-bait as an actual news article IMO. They've mixed rumors of Apple maybe/might/someday/was going to but now isn't building a branded self driving car with this purportedly factual report of Apple contracting with VW to have a testbed special build of a few stock vehicles with requested changes that allow Apple to add their sensor and software package and rearrange the seating and controls. It's a test fleet for proof-of-concept company shuttle that allows for some good PR if all works as designed. But the NYT them pivots to "Oh Apple failed with their car plans because no good company wants to work with them and VW was their only option". Such silliness. Taking an assortment of unverified rumors and innuendo, mix with a fact or two, then use it to denigrate Apple.
Building a car would be getting way out in front of the most important part: Getting the software right. Apple ain't building a car anytime soon, if ever. The original "news" report borders on a hit-piece IMO.
Since Apple hasn’t confirmed their partnership with VW we don’t know what’s true or not in the article. But I agree with you, if they can’t nail the software there’s no reason to build a car. I’d still love to know how much of the the Apple will have a car by 2020 rumors were true. Bryan Chaffin who writes for the Mac Observer still swears that Apple at one point was all in on building their own car. He was reporting on it back in 2015 along with Bloomberg and Business Insider. I wonder if this was a case of Apple leadership realizing they were being too ambitious or if they decided to refocus once companies like BMW and Mercedes said we have no interest in being a Foxconn for your car project.
This reminds me of how Apple made the iPhone deal with Cingular before they were bought out by AT&T and made history...
I remember the negative buzz about Apple making the deal because only AT&T would agree to cede total control of the iPhone to Apple. Eventually the other carriers followed suit. Fast forward to today and we have the Android debacle of hit and miss updates and carrier bloatware.
Ha, some of us never gave up the possibility of Apple getting into autonomous vehicles. This may look modest now, but I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be heating a lot more about it in the next couple of years.
VW is an excellent choice: it has a mass market (volume), but also owns the upscale Audi and Porsche brands (cache). Yes, VW was tarnished by the diesel (Nitrogen Oxide) emissions scandal -- something that might seem to be at odds with Apple's vaunted "green" credentials -- but the company has more than amply penanced for it, with fines and restitutions in the US alone amounting to over $25B. Others such as BMW and M-B are just now being found out as having been involved with similar shenanigans.
1) Just wait for the Luddites to show up and say how dangerous automation in automobiles is for society. Someone might even claim that driving is more art than skill. :eyeroll:
2) Regarding the diesel emissions scandal, that shouldn't be a factor as I assume that all vehicles will be fully electric by the time this goes live.
Good PR opportunity for VW to propel them from that scandal, great for Apple getting their foot in the door and proving concept. Seems almost like the exclusive deal Apple had with AT&T to get into the phone market. Win-win
VW is still dealing with the scandal since it's now hit Porsche and recently Audi.
Cingular Wireless from 2000 to 2007, was a joint venture between SBC Communications and BellSouth, the company acquired the old AT&T Wireless in 2004; SBC later acquired the original AT&T. Cingular became wholly owned by AT&T in December 2006 as a result of AT&T's acquisition of BellSouth.
Ha, some of us never gave up the possibility of Apple getting into autonomous vehicles. This may look modest now, but I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be heating a lot more about it in the next couple of years.
VW is an excellent choice: it has a mass market (volume), but also owns the upscale Audi and Porsche brands (cache). Yes, VW was tarnished by the diesel (Nitrogen Oxide) emissions scandal -- something that might seem to be at odds with Apple's vaunted "green" credentials -- but the company has more than amply penanced for it, with fines and restitutions in the US alone amounting to over $25B. Others such as BMW and M-B are just now being found out as having been involved with similar shenanigans.
It is not just tarnished and about excellent car you have information when they were great in '80 and '90. After that VW fell into mediocrity and it is no different than many lower quality cars. It is not about emission, but reliablity record. yuou may want to check statistics especially from Europe. That is probably reason why they would join effort with Apple to rise themselves from bad customer perception levels.
For the record I owned and drove Volkswagen back in the days when I lived in Europe when the brand was absolutely outstanding. These days it is not close to those times.
I understand that Apple is going to use the Frame, Chassis and Wheels on this minibus. I think Apple can do wonders with this as a transport vehicle. If Apple reworks the already quite nice cabin, electrify it and add autonomous driving, it would be a clear winner.
" The frame, wheels and chassis of the T6 vans will remain, but Apple is replacing many components, including the dashboard and seats, said two people familiar with the project. Apple is also adding other computers, sensors and a large electric car battery, they said. The shuttles will ferry employees between two of Apple’s Silicon Valley campuses, and will include a driver behind the wheel to take control if needed, as well as an operator in the passenger’s seat tracking the van’s performance."
Cingular Wireless from 2000 to 2007, was a joint venture between SBC Communications and BellSouth, the company acquired the old AT&T Wireless in 2004; SBC later acquired the original AT&T. Cingular became wholly owned by AT&T in December 2006 as a result of AT&T's acquisition of BellSouth.
Very interesting mix... 1. Cingular Joint venture buys AT&T Wireless, 2. SBC parent buys original AT&T 3. So Singular + AT&T Wireless became part of original AT&T again.
In 10 to 20 years people will look askance at anyone that still drives themselves.
Nope. More like 50 years to achieve ubiqity of autonomous vehicles. There is far too much change that has to take place. To get to that special point, where the idea self-driving cars, trucks and vans is normal and boring, it will take enoumous changes in hardware, software and society (people). A whole lot of people will need to die of old age and be replaced with new young ones before the population will have enough willing "adopters" of autonomous tech. Don't get ahead of yourself pal, there's a lot of work to do and so many, many things that can and will go wrong.
In 10 to 20 years people will look askance at anyone that still drives themselves.
Nope. More like 50 years to achieve ubiqity of autonomous vehicles. There is far too much change that has to take place. To get to that special point, where the idea self-driving cars, trucks and vans is normal and boring, it will take enoumous changes in hardware, software and society (people). A whole lot of people will need to die of old age and be replaced with new young ones before the population will have enough willing "adopters" of autonomous tech. Don't get ahead of yourself pal, there's a lot of work to do and so many, many things that can and will go wrong.
I think all those dates are viable. These things happen in waves. I see transport vehicles that go slow over very well defined stops being first (which we've had for many decades already), then transport vehicles (which exist now), eventually we'll see it on highways (possibly were lanes can be sectioned off the way HUD lanes are now), and all these will slowly creep into more and more and eventually there will be e threshold where more people are being driven than driving. Within all this happening there will be places that autonomous driving won't be allowed and where autonomous driving is allowing (like the special highway lanes I mentioned), but slowly automated lanes will grow in popularity over time. None of this is overnight or without its engineering and social hurdles, but it's all going to be creeping closer to its tipping point each year until it's so normal that hardly anyone will even notice when the tipping point has occurred.
In 10 to 20 years people will look askance at anyone that still drives themselves.
Nope. More like 50 years to achieve ubiqity of autonomous vehicles. There is far too much change that has to take place. To get to that special point, where the idea self-driving cars, trucks and vans is normal and boring, it will take enoumous changes in hardware, software and society (people). A whole lot of people will need to die of old age and be replaced with new young ones before the population will have enough willing "adopters" of autonomous tech. Don't get ahead of yourself pal, there's a lot of work to do and so many, many things that can and will go wrong.
Frankly, I think ubiquity in the US will be reached in about 5 to 7 years. However, there will always be some unknown new dirt roads where a driver has to take over. That's why I like the Volkswagen ID concept cars where the steering wheels are retractable. Less developed countries will take longer for electrification, self-driving autonomy and autonomous ride sharing.
After testing each aspect separately, Apple is bringing all 3 of electrification, self-driving and ride-sharing together in the new Apple / Volkswagen T6.
I say bring it home baby! We are living in interesting times.
You know, I kind of gave up on Titan as an Apple vehicle, when a bunch of dedicated employees left that project. But the autonomous software only thing never seemed like a viable business either, what with every other automaker developing their own.
However, a couple of recent patent filings, including for the innovative structure of a car roof, make me think that the Titan is still on, but just at a much lower temperature so to speak. There's almost no other reason for some of these patents (Patently Apple). Certainly nothing to do with other makes of car, like this article.
Things are just curiouser and curiouser if you look around.
You know, I kind of gave up on Titan as an Apple vehicle, when a bunch of dedicated employees left that project. But the autonomous software only thing never seemed like a viable business either, what with every other automaker developing their own.
However, a couple of recent patent filings, including for the innovative structure of a car roof, make me think that the Titan is still on, but just at a much lower temperature so to speak. There's almost no other reason for some of these patents (Patently Apple). Certainly nothing to do with other makes of car, like this article.
Things are just curiouser and curiouser if you look around.
That particular patent was filed back in 2016 when Project Titan was still reportedly a "thing". Of course no one around here can be sure that it's still NOT a "thing", so perhaps....
Comments
There may never be actual branded vehicles from either of them. Or maybe there will be one day. It's really early in the self-driving game and consumers are still meandering around the fences not sure what side to pitch their tent on. All the companies will be doing the same thing, showing off their skills in a more public way and slowly building a level of trust with you and me with these initial limited road plans.
TBH that NYT article seemed as tho it was intended just as much as click-bait as an actual news article IMO. They've mixed rumors of Apple maybe/might/someday/was going to but now isn't building a branded self driving car with this purportedly factual report of Apple contracting with VW to have a testbed special build of a few stock vehicles with requested changes that allow Apple to add their sensor and software package and rearrange the seating and controls. It's a test fleet for proof-of-concept company shuttle that allows for some good PR if all works as designed. But the NYT them pivots to "Oh Apple failed with their car plans because no good company wants to work with them and VW was their only option". Such silliness. Taking an assortment of unverified rumors and innuendo, mix with a fact or two, then use it to denigrate Apple.
Building a car would be getting way out in front of the most important part: Getting the software right. Apple ain't building a car anytime soon, if ever. The original "news" report borders on a hit-piece IMO.
It also occurs to me VW do happen to also own a few extra ponies in their stable that are not too shabby: Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche.
https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple-is-working-on-a-car
Cingular Wireless from 2000 to 2007, was a joint venture between SBC Communications and BellSouth, the company acquired the old AT&T Wireless in 2004; SBC later acquired the original AT&T. Cingular became wholly owned by AT&T in December 2006 as a result of AT&T's acquisition of BellSouth.
For the record I owned and drove Volkswagen back in the days when I lived in Europe when the brand was absolutely outstanding. These days it is not close to those times.
I think Apple can do wonders with this as a transport vehicle.
If Apple reworks the already quite nice cabin, electrify it and add autonomous driving, it would be a clear winner.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/23/technology/apple-bmw-mercedes-volkswagen-driverless-cars.html
" The frame, wheels and chassis of the T6 vans will remain, but Apple is replacing many components, including the dashboard and seats, said two people familiar with the project. Apple is also adding other computers, sensors and a large electric car battery, they said. The shuttles will ferry employees between two of Apple’s Silicon Valley campuses, and will include a driver behind the wheel to take control if needed, as well as an operator in the passenger’s seat tracking the van’s performance."
Check it out...
1. Cingular Joint venture buys AT&T Wireless,
2. SBC parent buys original AT&T
3. So Singular + AT&T Wireless became part of original AT&T again.
After testing each aspect separately, Apple is bringing all 3 of electrification, self-driving and ride-sharing together in the new Apple / Volkswagen T6.
I say bring it home baby! We are living in interesting times.
However, a couple of recent patent filings, including for the innovative structure of a car roof, make me think that the Titan is still on, but just at a much lower temperature so to speak. There's almost no other reason for some of these patents (Patently Apple). Certainly nothing to do with other makes of car, like this article.
Things are just curiouser and curiouser if you look around.
That particular patent was filed back in 2016 when Project Titan was still reportedly a "thing". Of course no one around here can be sure that it's still NOT a "thing", so perhaps....