Rumor: Apple working on new device family under codename 'Star' [u]

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  • Reply 21 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,847member
    Watch and TV’s respective systems are already based on iOS just with some chunks removed and some stuff added that’s specific to their platforms. […] The big big question is, will Apple use the transition to “iOS desktop edition” as an excuse to lock down Macs to only sandboxes apps from the App Store?
    And yet they're called tvOS and watchOS because they're distinct OSes for distinct devices. So, no, a Mac running x86_64 or AArch64 will not be renamed "iOS desktop edition."
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 22 of 90
    christopher126christopher126 Posts: 3,989member
    Very interesting. I'm typing this on a 2017 rose gold MacBook. It's a marvel of engineering and design. The best laptop I've had and I thoroughly enjoy using it. I always thought my iMac and a laptop was the way to go. But I have to say, this MacBook may very well be the last MacOS device I'll ever buy.

    I'm thinking of selling my MacBook, my iPad mini, my current AppleTV, my AppleWatch, SE, and going all in with the next gen iPad Pro (rose gold) and iOS. No keyboard, no pencil. iPhone SE2, 4K AppleTV, next gen (thinner) AppleWatch, next gen AirPods, the powerpad, and an 85" 'dumb' TV.

    No more laptops or desktops, Sad.

    Whatever Apple has in store for us, it's going to be closer to the iPad than the iMac. Can't wait. :)
  • Reply 23 of 90
    Soli said:
    Watch and TV’s respective systems are already based on iOS just with some chunks removed and some stuff added that’s specific to their platforms. […] The big big question is, will Apple use the transition to “iOS desktop edition” as an excuse to lock down Macs to only sandboxes apps from the App Store?
    And yet they're called tvOS and watchOS because they're distinct OSes for distinct devices. So, no, a Mac running x86_64 or AArch64 will not be renamed "iOS desktop edition."
    Congrats, you're smart enough to understand that, yet not smart enough that I wasn't taking a stab at naming this impending OS. If I was going to take a stab at that, I'd suggest they were either going to stick with iOS, or rebrand iOS, tvOS, watchOS and macOS as appleOS or come up with some brand new naming convention. Though they could also just choose to keep calling this new version macOS and simply state that in version 10._ they're breaking compatibility and dropping a ton of APIs and requiring developers to use the new ones.

    It'll be interesting to see how Tim and company handle things. I suspect that they won't want to break compatibility too quickly so they'll probably announce the new ARM Macs, and the APIs that are different with them, and release that year's macOS which would run on Intel and ARM but would leave certain "classic cruff" only running on Intel. Let a few blogs write about how much faster these new Macs are, how they're a great buy, how software developers X, Y and Z have already got their apps running on them, and how only Quicken and Adobe are lagging behind in only supporting Intel. Then the next year come out with a new version of macOS that's able to do some new things that can't be done on Intel macOS because of hardware limitations. Then the next year have the entire product line switched over to ARM with only a few intel Macs available to purchase for people with legacy apps that haven't moved over. Then the next year continue to support old Intel Macs and make sure some new wiz bang features still work so that people who have Intel macs don't feel left out in the cold. Then probably announce the end of Intel support the next year.

    I'm not saying I'd like that mind you. I plan on dropping a lot of money on a new Intel Mac soon. But I suspect when I do I'll get max 4 years of OS updates before Apple wants me to upgrade.
    bikertwinradarthekat
  • Reply 24 of 90
    bluefire1bluefire1 Posts: 788member
    George Gilder said we're rapidly approaching the post computer age.
    Just in time for Apple to lead the way and have Star be the next generation iPad-- or go beyond it.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 25 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,847member
    Soli said:
    Watch and TV’s respective systems are already based on iOS just with some chunks removed and some stuff added that’s specific to their platforms. […] The big big question is, will Apple use the transition to “iOS desktop edition” as an excuse to lock down Macs to only sandboxes apps from the App Store?
    And yet they're called tvOS and watchOS because they're distinct OSes for distinct devices. So, no, a Mac running x86_64 or AArch64 will not be renamed "iOS desktop edition."
    Congrats, you're smart enough to understand that, yet not smart enough that I wasn't taking a stab at naming this impending OS. If I was going to take a stab at that, I'd suggest they were either going to stick with iOS, or rebrand iOS, tvOS, watchOS and macOS as appleOS or come up with some brand new naming convention. Though they could also just choose to keep calling this new version macOS and simply state that in version 10._ they're breaking compatibility and dropping a ton of APIs and requiring developers to use the new ones.
    If you don't understand why they have tvOS and iOS then there's nothing I can say that will make you understand why "iOS desktop edition" is a ridiculous naming convnetion for macOS simply because it's using Apple silicon.
    edited May 26
  • Reply 26 of 90
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 324member
    One could imagine that there are a lot of prototype designs created in Cupertino that ultimately lead nowhere. It seems a bit much to speculate about massive changes to future product lines based on a rumor of a single such prototype. Likely a minority of such rumors are even close to true, and a very small minority of actual prototype concepts lead to anything that will ever make it to an Apple store. So while I guess it’s fun to speculate, it’s pretty much an excercise in creating fan fiction.

    Plus, one could also imagine that a good counter-industrial-espionage tactic would be for Apple to use various means to create false rumors of future products, just to gaslight the competition.
  • Reply 27 of 90
    techrulestechrules Posts: 47unconfirmed, member
    Now that would make a ton of sense and hope it is true. There just does not seem to be much coming out of Apple any longer and really someone needs to compete with Google instead of giving everything to them. Our school use to be almost all Apple and last year they replaced the last Macs with Chromebooks and honestly hard to see them going back to Apple. My wife went to the same school district and she used Apple at this school and it had been all Apple for 25 years. Saw the post that Google has now even passed Amazon in smart speaker sales. That happen way quicker than I would have thought even possible. Only Apple and Google have mobile platforms and so it is on Apple to make sure that Google does not win everything. Last week Google at I/O shared Chromebook sales grew 50% YoY. Looking at the Mac numbers they were higher in 2015 than in 2016 or 2017. Apple needs to get doing something instead of just sitting back.
    edited May 26 raoulduke42
  • Reply 28 of 90
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,460member
    Though they could also just choose to keep calling this new version macOS and simply state that in version 10._ they're breaking compatibility and dropping a ton of APIs and requiring developers to use the new ones.

    I would imagine that's the point that you start talking about macOS 11, not 10.x

    Though I agree with you, and think there would be good name recognition from a common OS name, especially if this supposed new product line comes under a new brand.

    Mac, with OS
    iPhone, with OS
    iPad, with OS
    Tv, with OS
    "Star", with OS

    That's a good consumer sell, even if it loses a bit of clarity for developers.  I think Apple cares more about the consumer.
    edited May 26
  • Reply 29 of 90
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,189member
    Apple is in the business of making products that regular people love and like to use, not satisfying the wet dreams of techies. So dream on.
    edited May 26 macxpressStrangeDayskiltedgreenRayz2016
  • Reply 30 of 90
    Detachable car UI/UX console
  • Reply 32 of 90
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,351member
    ascii said:
    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going).
    Oh, please no. Please please please no.
     And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    Everyone forgets that Apple already did that. It was even FINISHED and ASSEMBLED! I don’t know why they didn’t release it.


    ascii
  • Reply 33 of 90
    asciiascii Posts: 5,779member
    Darn, sounds like its not a laptop. What could "combo station" mean though?
    canukstorm
  • Reply 34 of 90
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,049member
    Intriguing and interesting. Hope AI continues to follow this, and the comments here are thought provoking.

    My $.02 here is that this discussing evokes images of Steve's long ago interview about how the mac was to be an office appliance. Much of the world now has technology workers at a desk doing their work. The Mac (and PC) revolutionized people sitting at desks using typewriters, phones, and faxes. What do these workers look like in the post-PC world if they don't have a desktop computer? I'm not sure, but there are many implications.


  • Reply 35 of 90
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,351member
    ascii said:
    Darn, sounds like its not a laptop. What could "combo station" mean though?
    Remember the DuoDock? Apple has had new patents for quite some time now.



    edited May 26 asciieightzero
  • Reply 36 of 90
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,493member
    ascii said:
    Darn, sounds like its not a laptop. What could "combo station" mean though?
    Remember the DuoDock? Apple has had new patents for quite some time now.



    Very interesting!
  • Reply 37 of 90
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,474moderator
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not. The OSes are defined by their respective UIs and I/O, not their processor architecture. This is why iOS is unique from tvOS while all running similar ARM configurations.
    As a programmer I see an OS as primarily defined by its APIs not its user interface, and adding a new shell to iOS does not seem like that big of a deal to me. 
    Then you know APIs can be the same disparate Uis and architectures. From last year's WWDC…
    Yup they are gradually unifying APIs on macOS and iOS, and Spotlight is one example. But I just see that as them encouraging Mac developers to code more and more to iOS APIs, so that when they eventually replace macOS with iOS Desktop, the programmers will find their apps are 90% ported already.  

    They have been doing the same thing on the hardware side, ever so slowly making Mac hardware more iOS like. Fewer and fewer replaceable parts. More wireless and less ports. Keyboards so flat they're not much different to typing on a touch screen. Tim Cook likes boiling frogs, he is a patient man.
    So you think they'll replace macOS with something that looks and functions the exact same way for the user on the Mac but cal it iOS Desktop, not macOS to refer to the OS that runs on a Mac and only a Mac? As watchOS grows to make it better for developers do you also think that will happen there, so that watchOS will eventually replace iOS and be called iOS Watchface on the iPhone instead of simply referring to it as iOS? I don't see either of these things ever happening.

    What do you see as the benefit to name a unique OS the same as an OS for a completely different device platform with different I/O? Even if Apple could theoretically make it so that a 3rd party developer could develop for the iPhone and it be 100% compatible for the Mac despite the extremely different UIs and I/O. the branding is for its users, not for coders. So how does calling macOS on a 27" iMac Pro iOS Desktop work for the user or Apple's branding?
    I think they'll eventually get rid of the Mac brand, and even (shock, horror) the "i" brand. They'll have the Apple Watch, Apple TV, Apple Phone, Apple Computer, Apple Glasses. Wouldn't that be consistent with their newest products?

    And they will all run the same OS with different shells. I have been calling it iOS but it could just be appleOS. The benefit to the user would be that you could buy one app that runs on everything, just switching its user interface as needed. 

    This is not a new concept, its just a question of whether Apple is doing it or not. They are definitely unifying their operating systems at a low level but it is unknown whether this is just for efficiency/common sense or part of a bigger plan. Maybe it's just unjustified Platonism but I think the later. The project Marzipan someone mentioned earlier is along these lines so we might get more information at WWDC.
    I’m nowhere near as technically conversant on all things Mac as many others here, but I do think that Apple will push toward a future where they aren’t needing to support the x86 instruction set, either directly in silicon via Intel or AMD chips or via a license to build that into their own silicon.  Nope, they will build their future compute platforms on ARM and whatever may eventually supplant it, where Apple has favorable licensing of the instruction set and has expertise in optimizing silicon for it.  And that implies leaving behind legacy x86 app support.  Those apps will need to be rewritten/compiled under a new ARM architecture that supports the I/O devices (mouse, etc) needed to support desktop application interactions.  Call that Desktop iOS or whatever, it’s the path to a new line of products that have the flexibility to support the same apps on different form factor computing devices, from desktop down to iPhone and beyond.  x86 architecture, in my view, is left behind, supported with traditional Macs for another few generations until all the apps unique to the desktop paradigm have been recompiled for Apple’s new internally designed silicon and line of devices that support it.  An exciting transition might be about to take shape.  
  • Reply 38 of 90
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,474moderator
    Soli said:
    Watch and TV’s respective systems are already based on iOS just with some chunks removed and some stuff added that’s specific to their platforms. […] The big big question is, will Apple use the transition to “iOS desktop edition” as an excuse to lock down Macs to only sandboxes apps from the App Store?
    And yet they're called tvOS and watchOS because they're distinct OSes for distinct devices. So, no, a Mac running x86_64 or AArch64 will not be renamed "iOS desktop edition."
    Congrats, you're smart enough to understand that, yet not smart enough that I wasn't taking a stab at naming this impending OS. If I was going to take a stab at that, I'd suggest they were either going to stick with iOS, or rebrand iOS, tvOS, watchOS and macOS as appleOS or come up with some brand new naming convention. Though they could also just choose to keep calling this new version macOS and simply state that in version 10._ they're breaking compatibility and dropping a ton of APIs and requiring developers to use the new ones.

    It'll be interesting to see how Tim and company handle things. I suspect that they won't want to break compatibility too quickly so they'll probably announce the new ARM Macs, and the APIs that are different with them, and release that year's macOS which would run on Intel and ARM but would leave certain "classic cruff" only running on Intel. Let a few blogs write about how much faster these new Macs are, how they're a great buy, how software developers X, Y and Z have already got their apps running on them, and how only Quicken and Adobe are lagging behind in only supporting Intel. Then the next year come out with a new version of macOS that's able to do some new things that can't be done on Intel macOS because of hardware limitations. Then the next year have the entire product line switched over to ARM with only a few intel Macs available to purchase for people with legacy apps that haven't moved over. Then the next year continue to support old Intel Macs and make sure some new wiz bang features still work so that people who have Intel macs don't feel left out in the cold. Then probably announce the end of Intel support the next year.

    I'm not saying I'd like that mind you. I plan on dropping a lot of money on a new Intel Mac soon. But I suspect when I do I'll get max 4 years of OS updates before Apple wants me to upgrade.
    THIS!
  • Reply 39 of 90
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,493member
    Just to confuse matters more, this is Gurman's take on "N84"


  • Reply 40 of 90
    asciiascii Posts: 5,779member
    ascii said:
    Darn, sounds like its not a laptop. What could "combo station" mean though?
    Remember the DuoDock? Apple has had new patents for quite some time now.

    I think Razer showed a prototype of the laptop with a phone dock earlier this year, but I didn't know Apple was thinking about it too. 
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