I can confirm that the 'enable messages in iCloud button' is there in Australia
Thank you. I think I've stumbled across a bug in IOS, or perhaps, an opportunity for improvement. I opened settings, then "account & passwords", then my iCloud account, and there is no option to turn on messages there (see attached image "accounts & passwords"). However, opening settings and then clicking my image at the top, and then iCloud, then the option IS there under "apps using iCloud" (image "apps using iCloud"). Might be worth emphasising in the story. Regards, John
Moreover, it forces the retention policy to “forever”. I like to have the conversations synced, but I don’t care to keep months or years’ worth of messages and attachments (I NEVER went back checking, that’s not the place to store information), and I have messages delete after 30 days.
Now I am forced to do the pruning myself. Either message by message, or entire conversations.
Not it sure I will keep the feature on, and wait 2021 for something more useful when Apple releases a more complete and useful product.
And yes, it seeems lately they don’t really use what they program.
By not including SMS messages in the cloud, this means I still can’t set up a device as new and get my full messsge history. Another half-baked feature from Apple ☹️.
The way Messages handles SMS' when sending to non-Apple devices is confusing enough anyway. That's the reason I almost never use the Messages app anymore. It's a pity.
Why isn’t anyone talking about the fact that if you mistakenly delete a message or conversation on one device, it auto deletes it across all devices without any way to undo or recover?
Do you have multiple devices? Have you accidentally deleted a message on one of your synced devices but then thankfully was able to find that info on a different (linked) device?
Well...Messages in iCloud killed that option. This is a big deal. We need settings or a recovery folder for 30’days; just like photos has implemented.
From a user perspective, If I enable Messages on iCloud, I would have to pay monthly fee for iCloud service immediately. Saving the iCloud costs in three years mean I can get a 128GB iPhone instead of a 64GB, or a 256GB iPhone instead of a 128GB.
I am happy to stay with Messages on current “Apple cloud”. All messages are readily searchable on all of my devices includind iPhone, iPad, multiple Macs even without internet. I don’t have any synchronisation problem among devices. Why do I need to enable Messages on iCloud? It doesn’t make any sense to me.
I pay 99¢ per month for 50GB of iCloud storage. That's $36 over 3 years. That's a far cry from the cost to bump to the next storage tier.
This is a nice feature for people who don't mind hundreds of old messages displaying on their devices but if you want a clutter free device (visually) the messages can only be deleted which that deletes them everywhere. Why couldn't Apple have set up a separate folder in iCloud to store old messages in so you don't have to keep all the old messages on my phone/Mac/iPad iMessage screen but I can still get to them if I need them? They saved storage space on the devices but not the visual space.
"Traditional text messages are also not included" This statement is definitely INCORRECT. I'm using it on multiple iOS devices and sms/mms messages are included. Apple has access to them because they are obviously on your iOS device and have been included in the full iCloud backup of your iPhone.
"Traditional text messages are also not included" This statement is definitely INCORRECT. I'm using it on multiple iOS devices and sms/mms messages are included. Apple has access to them because they are obviously on your iOS device and have been included in the full iCloud backup of your iPhone.
This is a nice feature for people who don't mind hundreds of old messages displaying on their devices but if you want a clutter free device (visually) the messages can only be deleted which that deletes them everywhere. Why couldn't Apple have set up a separate folder in iCloud to store old messages in so you don't have to keep all the old messages on my phone/Mac/iPad iMessage screen but I can still get to them if I need them? They saved storage space on the devices but not the visual space.
Worrying about visual “clutter” in the Messages app, merely by having conversation items listed in it, is a disorder. It’s just a list of conversations, and you don’t need to manage it. Do you manage your browser’s History list? Your disorder is creating new work for yourself.
IreneW said: The way Messages handles SMS' when sending to non-Apple devices is confusing enough anyway. That's the reason I almost never use the Messages app anymore.
It's a pity.
Yes, I agree it is rather confusing. But, I'm hoping if they show up on all the devices, at least, it might help that some.
Why isn’t anyone talking about the fact that if you mistakenly delete a message or conversation on one device, it auto deletes it across all devices without any way to undo or recover?
Do you have multiple devices? Have you accidentally deleted a message on one of your synced devices but then thankfully was able to find that info on a different (linked) device?
Welcome to the wonderful world of sync. That's why I always stress to people that they need to do their own backups, and archival/snapshots of any important data files aside from thinking about Apple's (or other such services) as some kind of backup.
Yes, if a glitch happens or you make a mistake, a sync system effectively and efficiently replicates it across everything. One of my friends lost huge amounts of info this way in the MobileMe days. He would be working and putting stuff in calendar and contacts and such, and then one day, suddenly, half his appointments and contacts would just disappear. Then he'd spend hours and hours trying to put stuff back together from backups (he fortunately had). Suffice it to say, it took him a long time to even consider trusting Apple cloud stuff again... and even now, he's crazy cautious (and keeps his main data like that on other services).
Moreover, it forces the retention policy to “forever”. I like to have the conversations synced, but I don’t care to keep months or years’ worth of messages and attachments (I NEVER went back checking, that’s not the place to store information), and I have messages delete after 30 days.
Now I am forced to do the pruning myself. Either message by message, or entire conversations.
Not it sure I will keep the feature on, and wait 2021 for something more useful when Apple releases a more complete and useful product.
And yes, it seeems lately they don’t really use what they program.
I agree that it should still allow for old messages to fall off with a interval selection that you decide, but it’s still a brand new feature. If that hasn’t materialized in a year then I can see it start to be problematic, and I’d just not use iMesagea in iCloud if that’s an issue.
...does it make any sense that Apple locks in proprietary hardware storage with the most expensive (arguably fastest) possible proprietary SSD to of course max out margins, yet also to 'encourage' everyone to use iCloud, both from growing a recurring revenue base and of course the enigmatic privacy and customer profiling perspectives...?
...does it make any sense that Apple locks in proprietary hardware storage with the most expensive (arguably fastest) possible proprietary SSD to of course max out margins, yet also to 'encourage' everyone to use iCloud, both from growing a recurring revenue base and of course the enigmatic privacy and customer profiling perspectives...?
I think they are trying to solve a problem introduced by SSD, as when that became popular, storage sizes dropped dramatically. I had 1+TB of storage a LONG time ago now, and ever since, I've yet to hit 1TB of SSD in any of my systems. So, I've had to shift my whole workflow and where I store things. That said, I wouldn't go back!
My main issue is that I don't want Apple trying to auto-manage this stuff, and I'm not crazy about how they are implementing their systems to do so (ex: photo management). The shift in so many people who aren't tech-literate to the platform has pushed Apple more and more towards 'simple' attempts at 'it just works' in terms of storage on-device vs in-cloud... but Apple is horrible at this stuff, so it ends up being a kludge.
If I could wish two changes in how it happened, I think I'd want to go back and somehow make the Apple/Dropbox negotiation work out, and convince the person who didn't include file-management into early iOS that it was necessary (was that Jobs even?). Apple has been fixing the fallout of those things for the last decade now... and we're just finally starting to see some progress out of that hole.
...does it make any sense that Apple locks in proprietary hardware storage with the most expensive (arguably fastest) possible proprietary SSD to of course max out margins, yet also to 'encourage' everyone to use iCloud, both from growing a recurring revenue base and of course the enigmatic privacy and customer profiling perspectives...?
Are you saying Apple is trying to bleed customers by using NAND but also bleeding customers by offering iCloud storage as an option that would reduce SSD use and thereby allow customers to get smaller storage capacities in future devices? If so, how does that work?
...does it make any sense that Apple locks in proprietary hardware storage with the most expensive (arguably fastest) possible proprietary SSD to of course max out margins, yet also to 'encourage' everyone to use iCloud, both from growing a recurring revenue base and of course the enigmatic privacy and customer profiling perspectives...?
Are you saying Apple is trying to bleed customers by using NAND but also bleeding customers by offering iCloud storage as an option that would reduce SSD use and thereby allow customers to get smaller storage capacities in future devices? If so, how does that work?
Yeah, I wasn't sure either. I guess they are trying to give the option and make money either way. I'd expect them to do that, though. I used to complain (you guys were probably really sick of me) about this with all of Apple's 8GB devices, but I think they've mostly fixed that now. The base-level storage on their products seems reasonable now.
1. Caveat - not for under 13 AppleIDs. If you have a family member with an under 13 AppleID, at least in Canada, Messages in iCloud looks available but doesn't work because it requires 2 factor authentication which an under 13 AppleID doesn't support.
2. Consequences from my setup experience
I started by turning on Messages in iCloud by enabling it on my iPhone first, but not before deleting old messages or message images/attachments I no longer needed. The setup worked as expected, and after some time the Downloading (or Uploading) Messages from (to) iCloud message went away. On to the iPad.
I took a gamble that enabling Messages in iCloud on the iPad without a "pre-cleaning" wasn't necessary, hoping that it would recognize another device is already using the feature and simply sync with that content. Wrong. It uploaded everything from the iPad, which was then downloaded to the iPhone. Oh well. I cleaned up the messages on the iPhone again, and the changes sync'd to the iPad. On to the Macs.
On my Mac mini, based on what I learned from the iPad, I painstakingly deleted A LOT of messages that dated back 5+ years. I never cleaned these because of Messages for Mac's lack of bulk-delete capabilities (yes I'm aware of methods posted by others - option+command+delete doesn't work on any of my Macs, nor does deleting the Messages folder in ~Library... Apple Support got involved as well and still no luck). Anyway, with them removed, I enabled Messages in iCloud. The sync took a very long time - so long that I just left it overnight. Next morning, in the end, all of my effort to supposedly delete the Mac's old messages was pointless. They all re-appeared on the Mac mini, and were sync'd to my iPhone and iPad. In case you're wondering, the 'Save history when conversations are closed' option is not enabled. At this time, I chose not to delete them again, just yet, as I still have a MacBook to setup.
On the MacBook, this was a bit simpler as it had just been rebuilt without a Time Machine restore, so Messages had just one message in it. I enabled Messages in iCloud and waited, again for a long time, for the messages to sync. Eventually they were all there.
Now I deleted all of the messages I no longer wanted, using the iPad (which has the easiest (for-me) to use interface to bulk delete. All the deletes immediately sync'd to the iPhone, Mac mini, and MacBook!
That's when I realized that there were unique-to-device messages remaining on each device. I deleted those on each respective device, and finally, I had an equal number of messages remaining across all devices that were in sync.
Last thing I noticed is, in a few of the messages, pieces of the conversation were missing (e.g. something I wrote, something the other person wrote was on 1 of the devices, but not the other 3). This I have no fix for, but I'm not too concerned.
I hope you find this helpful, or at least relatable in a commiserative way.
techrider said: 1. Caveat - not for under 13 AppleIDs. If you have a family member with an under 13 AppleID, at least in Canada, Messages in iCloud looks available but doesn't work because it requires 2 factor authentication which an under 13 AppleID doesn't support.
2. Consequences from my setup experience
Thanks, good to know about the under 13 AppleID and 2FA. Those will be deal-breakers for me, I guess. Bummer.
re: 2 - Yea, going from non-synced to synced state on any system like this is going to be difficult... there isn't really any kind of 'it just works.'
Once setup, will a delete wipe the message from displaying on each device but preserve a record in iCloud (where it could be downloaded later), or does delete wipe a thread everywhere with no possibility to ever recover? Does anyone know conclusively or has anyone found a description in an Apple document? Thx.
Comments
I think I've stumbled across a bug in IOS, or perhaps, an opportunity for improvement.
I opened settings, then "account & passwords", then my iCloud account, and there is no option to turn on messages there (see attached image "accounts & passwords"). However, opening settings and then clicking my image at the top, and then iCloud, then the option IS there under "apps using iCloud" (image "apps using iCloud").
Might be worth emphasising in the story.
Regards,
John
Why?
Moreover, it forces the retention policy to “forever”. I like to have the conversations synced, but I don’t care to keep months or years’ worth of messages and attachments (I NEVER went back checking, that’s not the place to store information), and I have messages delete after 30 days.
Now I am forced to do the pruning myself. Either message by message, or entire conversations.
Not it sure I will keep the feature on, and wait 2021 for something more useful when Apple releases a more complete and useful product.
And yes, it seeems lately they don’t really use what they program.
It's a pity.
Do you have multiple devices? Have you accidentally deleted a message on one of your synced devices but then thankfully was able to find that info on a different (linked) device?
Well...Messages in iCloud killed that option. This is a big deal. We need settings or a recovery folder for 30’days; just like photos has implemented.
Get it together Apple...
Worrying about visual “clutter” in the Messages app, merely by having conversation items listed in it, is a disorder. It’s just a list of conversations, and you don’t need to manage it. Do you manage your browser’s History list? Your disorder is creating new work for yourself.
Welcome to the wonderful world of sync. That's why I always stress to people that they need to do their own backups, and archival/snapshots of any important data files aside from thinking about Apple's (or other such services) as some kind of backup.
Yes, if a glitch happens or you make a mistake, a sync system effectively and efficiently replicates it across everything. One of my friends lost huge amounts of info this way in the MobileMe days. He would be working and putting stuff in calendar and contacts and such, and then one day, suddenly, half his appointments and contacts would just disappear. Then he'd spend hours and hours trying to put stuff back together from backups (he fortunately had). Suffice it to say, it took him a long time to even consider trusting Apple cloud stuff again... and even now, he's crazy cautious (and keeps his main data like that on other services).
My main issue is that I don't want Apple trying to auto-manage this stuff, and I'm not crazy about how they are implementing their systems to do so (ex: photo management). The shift in so many people who aren't tech-literate to the platform has pushed Apple more and more towards 'simple' attempts at 'it just works' in terms of storage on-device vs in-cloud... but Apple is horrible at this stuff, so it ends up being a kludge.
If I could wish two changes in how it happened, I think I'd want to go back and somehow make the Apple/Dropbox negotiation work out, and convince the person who didn't include file-management into early iOS that it was necessary (was that Jobs even?). Apple has been fixing the fallout of those things for the last decade now... and we're just finally starting to see some progress out of that hole.
I used to complain (you guys were probably really sick of me) about this with all of Apple's 8GB devices, but I think they've mostly fixed that now. The base-level storage on their products seems reasonable now.
1. Caveat - not for under 13 AppleIDs. If you have a family member with an under 13 AppleID, at least in Canada, Messages in iCloud looks available but doesn't work because it requires 2 factor authentication which an under 13 AppleID doesn't support.
2. Consequences from my setup experience
I started by turning on Messages in iCloud by enabling it on my iPhone first, but not before deleting old messages or message images/attachments I no longer needed. The setup worked as expected, and after some time the Downloading (or Uploading) Messages from (to) iCloud message went away. On to the iPad.
I took a gamble that enabling Messages in iCloud on the iPad without a "pre-cleaning" wasn't necessary, hoping that it would recognize another device is already using the feature and simply sync with that content. Wrong. It uploaded everything from the iPad, which was then downloaded to the iPhone. Oh well. I cleaned up the messages on the iPhone again, and the changes sync'd to the iPad. On to the Macs.
On my Mac mini, based on what I learned from the iPad, I painstakingly deleted A LOT of messages that dated back 5+ years. I never cleaned these because of Messages for Mac's lack of bulk-delete capabilities (yes I'm aware of methods posted by others - option+command+delete doesn't work on any of my Macs, nor does deleting the Messages folder in ~Library... Apple Support got involved as well and still no luck). Anyway, with them removed, I enabled Messages in iCloud. The sync took a very long time - so long that I just left it overnight. Next morning, in the end, all of my effort to supposedly delete the Mac's old messages was pointless. They all re-appeared on the Mac mini, and were sync'd to my iPhone and iPad. In case you're wondering, the 'Save history when conversations are closed' option is not enabled. At this time, I chose not to delete them again, just yet, as I still have a MacBook to setup.
On the MacBook, this was a bit simpler as it had just been rebuilt without a Time Machine restore, so Messages had just one message in it. I enabled Messages in iCloud and waited, again for a long time, for the messages to sync. Eventually they were all there.
Now I deleted all of the messages I no longer wanted, using the iPad (which has the easiest (for-me) to use interface to bulk delete. All the deletes immediately sync'd to the iPhone, Mac mini, and MacBook!
That's when I realized that there were unique-to-device messages remaining on each device. I deleted those on each respective device, and finally, I had an equal number of messages remaining across all devices that were in sync.
Last thing I noticed is, in a few of the messages, pieces of the conversation were missing (e.g. something I wrote, something the other person wrote was on 1 of the devices, but not the other 3). This I have no fix for, but I'm not too concerned.
I hope you find this helpful, or at least relatable in a commiserative way.
re: 2 - Yea, going from non-synced to synced state on any system like this is going to be difficult... there isn't really any kind of 'it just works.'