Apple continues to dominate best-selling smartphones rankings despite recent S9 launch

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 31
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 31
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,473member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?


    ????
    We know Apple slaughters other flagships because of the profits, ASP and product mixes.  If Samsung sold similar numbers of flagships as Apple their percentage of smartphone market profit and ASPs would be higher.  Samsung ASP peaked with the S4.

    But as a concern troll you continue to flog the mantra that’s there is no “proof” because nobody has exact numbers.
    Profits and ASP haven't helped iPhone users. They have helped investors.

    As a consumer, I am interested in the product, not ASP, share price or any other investor metric.




  • Reply 23 of 31
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,869member
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?


    ????
    We know Apple slaughters other flagships because of the profits, ASP and product mixes.  If Samsung sold similar numbers of flagships as Apple their percentage of smartphone market profit and ASPs would be higher.  Samsung ASP peaked with the S4.

    But as a concern troll you continue to flog the mantra that’s there is no “proof” because nobody has exact numbers.
    Profits and ASP haven't helped iPhone users. They have helped investors.

    As a consumer, I am interested in the product, not ASP, share price or any other investor metric.




    iPhone users are part of the broad Apple ecosystem, and of the two platforms, has the longest and best support, and Apple has, validated by their pricing, the best pricing power of any smartphone, especially in the used and refurbished market. Hence, why smartphone users gravitate towards the iPhone as the aspirational choice. Certainly, iPhone users benefit from that with a growing user base, and the continuing value of the iPhone.

    More to the point, why are you here if you can't see any of that, and why is marketshare singularly important to the consumer and especially you?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 31
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,473member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    Whichever way you look at it, you don't know. Bringing 2014 unit sales into things is worthless. Are you aware that Samsung even gives flagship phones away with some TVs? And that the radical discounting, carrier promotions, the sheer number of units and other promotional offers make even guesstimates a waste of time.

    You don't need mathematics to help you, you need Samsung to tell you, and excepting that, analyst guesstimates.


  • Reply 25 of 31
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,869member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    Whichever way you look at it, you don't know. Bringing 2014 unit sales into things is worthless. Are you aware that Samsung even gives flagship phones away with some TVs? And that the radical discounting, carrier promotions, the sheer number of units and other promotional offers make even guesstimates a waste of time.

    You don't need mathematics to help you, you need Samsung to tell you, and excepting that, analyst guesstimates.


    You certainly aren't advocating the consumer position with your posts; looks more like another tantrum because the numbers don't line up with your viewpoint.

    Seems like you are unhappy that your platform and your team(s) are getting their asses kicked by Apple! You are making the case that Android OS flagships have to be discounted to attract buyers; I agree with that, btw.

    I would note that not all "flagships" generate much of any revenue, let alone sales, and revenues is something that iPhone does generate. I blame it on the Android OS platform, for the most part, but also on the shitty support that most device makers give to their buyers.
    edited June 13 watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 31
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,473member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    Whichever way you look at it, you don't know. Bringing 2014 unit sales into things is worthless. Are you aware that Samsung even gives flagship phones away with some TVs? And that the radical discounting, carrier promotions, the sheer number of units and other promotional offers make even guesstimates a waste of time.

    You don't need mathematics to help you, you need Samsung to tell you, and excepting that, analyst guesstimates.


    You certainly aren't advocating the consumer position with your posts; looks more like another tantrum because the numbers don't line up with your viewpoint.

    Seems like you are unhappy that your platform and your team(s) are getting their asses kicked by Apple! You are making the case that Android OS flagships have to be discounted to attract buyers; I agree with that, btw.

    I would note that not all "flagships" generate much of any revenue, let alone sales, and revenues is something that iPhone does generate. I blame it on the Android OS platform, for the most part, but also on the shitty support that most device makers give to their buyers.
    My posts revolve around competition, pricing and the best possible product for consumers. That doesn't mean I don't comment on other issues.

    I have no 'team'. As a consumer I want the best for consumers. Believe me, my stance would be different if I were an investor but I would still have the same ideals.

    I try to stick to what I know, hence a lack of any detailed comments on Samsung (never had one of their phones) but some things are clear even from the outside.

    Ironically, this morning I spent two hours configuring an S9+. It is one hell of a device.
  • Reply 27 of 31
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,869member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    Whichever way you look at it, you don't know. Bringing 2014 unit sales into things is worthless. Are you aware that Samsung even gives flagship phones away with some TVs? And that the radical discounting, carrier promotions, the sheer number of units and other promotional offers make even guesstimates a waste of time.

    You don't need mathematics to help you, you need Samsung to tell you, and excepting that, analyst guesstimates.


    You certainly aren't advocating the consumer position with your posts; looks more like another tantrum because the numbers don't line up with your viewpoint.

    Seems like you are unhappy that your platform and your team(s) are getting their asses kicked by Apple! You are making the case that Android OS flagships have to be discounted to attract buyers; I agree with that, btw.

    I would note that not all "flagships" generate much of any revenue, let alone sales, and revenues is something that iPhone does generate. I blame it on the Android OS platform, for the most part, but also on the shitty support that most device makers give to their buyers.
    My posts revolve around competition, pricing and the best possible product for consumers. That doesn't mean I don't comment on other issues.

    I have no 'team'. As a consumer I want the best for consumers. Believe me, my stance would be different if I were an investor but I would still have the same ideals.

    I try to stick to what I know, hence a lack of any detailed comments on Samsung (never had one of their phones) but some things are clear even from the outside.

    Ironically, this morning I spent two hours configuring an S9+. It is one hell of a device.
    You speak of a "device" while we all speak of a platform, ecosystem, developers, and our "devices", a major failing in your analysis "of best product for consumers".
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 31
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,473member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    Whichever way you look at it, you don't know. Bringing 2014 unit sales into things is worthless. Are you aware that Samsung even gives flagship phones away with some TVs? And that the radical discounting, carrier promotions, the sheer number of units and other promotional offers make even guesstimates a waste of time.

    You don't need mathematics to help you, you need Samsung to tell you, and excepting that, analyst guesstimates.


    You certainly aren't advocating the consumer position with your posts; looks more like another tantrum because the numbers don't line up with your viewpoint.

    Seems like you are unhappy that your platform and your team(s) are getting their asses kicked by Apple! You are making the case that Android OS flagships have to be discounted to attract buyers; I agree with that, btw.

    I would note that not all "flagships" generate much of any revenue, let alone sales, and revenues is something that iPhone does generate. I blame it on the Android OS platform, for the most part, but also on the shitty support that most device makers give to their buyers.
    My posts revolve around competition, pricing and the best possible product for consumers. That doesn't mean I don't comment on other issues.

    I have no 'team'. As a consumer I want the best for consumers. Believe me, my stance would be different if I were an investor but I would still have the same ideals.

    I try to stick to what I know, hence a lack of any detailed comments on Samsung (never had one of their phones) but some things are clear even from the outside.

    Ironically, this morning I spent two hours configuring an S9+. It is one hell of a device.
    You speak of a "device" while we all speak of a platform, ecosystem, developers, and our "devices", a major failing in your analysis "of best product for consumers".
    Yes. That's deliberate. There are devices and platforms. We are talking here about devices. Pure and simple. Specific devices at that.
  • Reply 29 of 31
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,869member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    Whichever way you look at it, you don't know. Bringing 2014 unit sales into things is worthless. Are you aware that Samsung even gives flagship phones away with some TVs? And that the radical discounting, carrier promotions, the sheer number of units and other promotional offers make even guesstimates a waste of time.

    You don't need mathematics to help you, you need Samsung to tell you, and excepting that, analyst guesstimates.


    You certainly aren't advocating the consumer position with your posts; looks more like another tantrum because the numbers don't line up with your viewpoint.

    Seems like you are unhappy that your platform and your team(s) are getting their asses kicked by Apple! You are making the case that Android OS flagships have to be discounted to attract buyers; I agree with that, btw.

    I would note that not all "flagships" generate much of any revenue, let alone sales, and revenues is something that iPhone does generate. I blame it on the Android OS platform, for the most part, but also on the shitty support that most device makers give to their buyers.
    My posts revolve around competition, pricing and the best possible product for consumers. That doesn't mean I don't comment on other issues.

    I have no 'team'. As a consumer I want the best for consumers. Believe me, my stance would be different if I were an investor but I would still have the same ideals.

    I try to stick to what I know, hence a lack of any detailed comments on Samsung (never had one of their phones) but some things are clear even from the outside.

    Ironically, this morning I spent two hours configuring an S9+. It is one hell of a device.
    You speak of a "device" while we all speak of a platform, ecosystem, developers, and our "devices", a major failing in your analysis "of best product for consumers".
    Yes. That's deliberate. There are devices and platforms. We are talking here about devices. Pure and simple. Specific devices at that.
    So, fluff...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 31
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,869member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    Whichever way you look at it, you don't know. Bringing 2014 unit sales into things is worthless. Are you aware that Samsung even gives flagship phones away with some TVs? And that the radical discounting, carrier promotions, the sheer number of units and other promotional offers make even guesstimates a waste of time.

    You don't need mathematics to help you, you need Samsung to tell you, and excepting that, analyst guesstimates.


    You certainly aren't advocating the consumer position with your posts; looks more like another tantrum because the numbers don't line up with your viewpoint.

    Seems like you are unhappy that your platform and your team(s) are getting their asses kicked by Apple! You are making the case that Android OS flagships have to be discounted to attract buyers; I agree with that, btw.

    I would note that not all "flagships" generate much of any revenue, let alone sales, and revenues is something that iPhone does generate. I blame it on the Android OS platform, for the most part, but also on the shitty support that most device makers give to their buyers.
    My posts revolve around competition, pricing and the best possible product for consumers. That doesn't mean I don't comment on other issues.

    I have no 'team'. As a consumer I want the best for consumers. Believe me, my stance would be different if I were an investor but I would still have the same ideals.

    I try to stick to what I know, hence a lack of any detailed comments on Samsung (never had one of their phones) but some things are clear even from the outside.

    Ironically, this morning I spent two hours configuring an S9+. It is one hell of a device.
    You speak of a "device" while we all speak of a platform, ecosystem, developers, and our "devices", a major failing in your analysis "of best product for consumers".
    Yes. That's deliberate. There are devices and platforms. We are talking here about devices. Pure and simple. Specific devices at that.
    This is why Android OS is hard on device makers;

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/12/technology/xiaomi-mi-store-europe/index.html

    ...race to bottom...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 31
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,473member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is not global sales. It’s from the APAC and NAM regions. Curious why they never included numbers for the entire world. Probably because the S9 didn’t actually finish in top spot.

    And this is how it always is. You will never see these analysts report:

    - Launch quarter sales for the latest iPhone against launch quarter sales for the latest Galaxy S.
    - Yearly sales for the iPhone vs the Galaxy S.

    They would rather report first month launch sales (not even a full quarter) for the Galaxy S from cherry-picked regions against the iPhone 6 months after launch. Because that’s the only way you can “adjust” things so give Samsung a “win”.
    This isn't strictly correct in some areas. Neither Apple nor Samsung breaks the phone numbers down by model. That leaves the estimates from various companies, including Counterpoint to try and flesh things out.

    The numbers you are seeking are available but you may need to be a paid subscriber to see them but they are only estimates.

    This particular report is limited in scope and states the obvious: If you are shipping 200million phones a year but your product matrix has a very limited amount of models, it is more likely that your models have a higher representation in the list of top sellers. If Apple only sold one model, those 200million units would put it at the top of the ranking but it still wouldn't sell more units than Samsung, and Huawei looks set to overtake them later this year too. This already happened last year:

    "The Chinese company overtook Apple in global smartphone sales for June and July to capture the second spot after Samsung, according to research firm Counterpoint’s Market Pulse report.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/sectors/technology/huawei-has-a-good-chance-of-overtaking-apple-by-2019-1.2116511

    As you can see, there is the Maket Pulse Report again, but logically it wasn't mentioned here.

    The information is out there. It's not that 'they would rather report...' Not in the slightest.

    In fact, try searching for DED and Counterpoint and you will see their reports in many of his articles.

    That's a lot of typing to say nothing. I'll break it down for you in simple, easy to understand terms.

    The iPhone absolutely slaughters the sales of Samsung flagships (Galaxy S and Note Series) by a factor of between 3 and 4 to 1. Samsung is so far behind it's not even funny anymore. The iPhone obliterates the sales of all other competing flagships by Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, Lenovo, OnePlus and Google.

    The only way someone else can look like they're winning is by taking carefully selected metrics (as in this case) or by lumping in low-end phones in a market the iPhone doesn't compete in (a favorite tactic of Samsung fans comparing overall sales to the iPhone).
    You are mixing things up a lot there.

    You have no real flagship data.  No one outside the different manufacturers does, so you simply cannot affirm that that iPhone slaughters the S and Note series, much less by some specific number.

    Yes, I know this is a tiny snapshot but it is not a 'carefully selected metric' (that is why I mentioned the Market Pulse in a link in the original reply). The Market Pulse is just another block of data. Nothing more. There is nothing 'carefully selected about it' and if you were talking about the 'use' of the data rather than how it was collected, that was my point too. This information is stating the obvious for the reasons I gave and not just the flagship phones.

    As for 'winning', you totally lost me there but according to this snapshot, what was Apple's combined marketshare and what does it point to? Another flat year or are all the eggs in the Christmas basket once again?

    Another mathematically challenged troll.

    Do you know what ASP is and how to calculate it? We don’t know the EXACT mix, but we have an excellent idea based on ASP. And Samsung ASP is so pathetically low (low to mid $200 range) that it’s mathematically impossible for them to sell flagships anywhere near the number that Apple does. Here’s an example:

    1 x $750 flagship.
    3 x $50 disposable phone.

    4 devices sold for a total of $900 giving us an ASP of $225. Feel free to come up with your own “magical” combination, but you’ll soon find Samsung flagships make up a fraction of their total sales (and are nowhere near Apple).

    Or you could look at Samsung’s own sales data for the Galaxy S (which they stopped reporting when sales tanked). As of Feb 2014 Samsung reported 200 million Galaxy S sales. Apple sold 413 million during the same time period. Apple was already outselling Samsung by 2:1. Following this announcement by Samsung Apple went on a tear and broke numerous sales records while Samsung had 7 consecutive quarters where ales went down. It’s not even close (the S4 was the last Galaxy S that sold well and got the closest to matching iPhone sales).

    Winning? Yes. Selling the most flagship phones by a country mile, having the highest revenues and profits, highest customer satisfaction, most profitable App Store (despite fewer devices).  But go on with your distorted market share numbers (comparing the gazillion low-end Android phones to the iPhone like all good little trolls do). That’s the only way you can declare victory. Market share in the market Apple actually competes in (flagships) Apple is the clear winner.
    Whichever way you look at it, you don't know. Bringing 2014 unit sales into things is worthless. Are you aware that Samsung even gives flagship phones away with some TVs? And that the radical discounting, carrier promotions, the sheer number of units and other promotional offers make even guesstimates a waste of time.

    You don't need mathematics to help you, you need Samsung to tell you, and excepting that, analyst guesstimates.


    You certainly aren't advocating the consumer position with your posts; looks more like another tantrum because the numbers don't line up with your viewpoint.

    Seems like you are unhappy that your platform and your team(s) are getting their asses kicked by Apple! You are making the case that Android OS flagships have to be discounted to attract buyers; I agree with that, btw.

    I would note that not all "flagships" generate much of any revenue, let alone sales, and revenues is something that iPhone does generate. I blame it on the Android OS platform, for the most part, but also on the shitty support that most device makers give to their buyers.
    My posts revolve around competition, pricing and the best possible product for consumers. That doesn't mean I don't comment on other issues.

    I have no 'team'. As a consumer I want the best for consumers. Believe me, my stance would be different if I were an investor but I would still have the same ideals.

    I try to stick to what I know, hence a lack of any detailed comments on Samsung (never had one of their phones) but some things are clear even from the outside.

    Ironically, this morning I spent two hours configuring an S9+. It is one hell of a device.
    You speak of a "device" while we all speak of a platform, ecosystem, developers, and our "devices", a major failing in your analysis "of best product for consumers".
    Yes. That's deliberate. There are devices and platforms. We are talking here about devices. Pure and simple. Specific devices at that.
    This is why Android OS is hard on device makers;

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/12/technology/xiaomi-mi-store-europe/index.html

    ...race to bottom...
    Strange that the article you linked to doesn't even hint at your so called 'race to the bottom' and you and the linked article missed one big piece of the game plan:

    "Its success is based on offering “world-class products” at low prices while selling high-margin services, according to CLSA Ltd"

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-12/chinese-phone-giant-xiaomi-could-be-twice-as-expensive-as-apple

    Now, please let us know how much the IPO could be worth (there are numbers out there).

    You are cherry picking your 'victim' with your 'race to the bottom' banner. Perhaps after all the Huawei news coming out lately (and in spite of US efforts to derail them in Canada, New Zealand, Australia etc) on sales (handsets included), technology and CeBIT, you don't want to go there. Not least as their top end handsets are breaking records and they have already put a number on what they think they can achieve in 2018: 200 million plus handsets. Race to the bottom? No.

    I wonder if you are able to see the bigger picture involving just about every area of communication from snippets like these:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/14/huawei_unveils_bigger_iron_kunlun_server_at_cebit/

    http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/huawei-plays-the-digital-transformation-symphony-at-cebit-2018-2018-06-18/rep_id:4433

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/12/15/huawei_developing_scmera_storage_system/

    https://www.fiercetelecom.com/telecom/telefonica-huawei-trial-quantum-cryptography-optical-network-using-sdn

    And lastly, one just for you:

    https://thenextweb.com/contributors/2018/06/16/our-paranoia-over-huawei-and-chinese-tech-is-misplaced/






    edited June 18
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