Apple's work towards waterproof iPhones continues with new sealing technology

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 30
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    macxpress said:
    But but...we want a removable battery. It should be easy to just put a seal around the battery door. /s

    Planned obsolesce!
    We are possibly at a crossroads here.

    The iPhone battery issues of late should show us that smaller capacities will lead to more charging cycles as people use their phones more often during the day and if you combine that with the possible need to actually change batteries due to them depleting within the normal use of the phones (due to longer upgrade cycles), you can envisage a problem that needs tackling and one way to achieve that is through removable batteries. Another is by designing repair into the design itself. Not 'repairs' that could lead to phone damage (like now) but true repair - by design.

    Gaskets are not the only way to handle water issues. There are nano coatings too. P2i comes to mind.

    I mentioned 'crossroads' at the start because it seems we are always close to a technological leap in battery techtech  never seems to happen but you can't help but think it could be near.

    The only crossroads I hope for is u leaving and joining an Android forum where u can be happy because nothing Apple does pleases you.
    So how did I accumulate all this Apple gear?

    Little of what Apple does today pleases me.

    And?

    Do you really think things can't change?

    Tim Cook and Jony I've won't be around forever and I am convinced that there are dissenting voices within Apple on things like how the Mac platform is being managed.

    Do actually disagree on what I wrote? Or was it simply a cheap stab?




    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 22 of 30
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,460member
    volcan said:
    JMStearnsX2 said:
    Since I will never go more than 10 feet underwater, my phone and watch are indeed "waterproof" for me.....
    Good to know that you are not encumbered by the actual definitions of words.
    Waterproof is a commonly used term.  Being 20m underwater is not a common scenario.  If the dictionary definition does not meet the usage, therefore the definition is wrong and needs to be updated.

    Lots of words have scientific or engineering meanings that differ from common use meanings.
  • Reply 23 of 30
    nhtnht Posts: 4,177member
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    macxpress said:
    But but...we want a removable battery. It should be easy to just put a seal around the battery door. /s

    Planned obsolesce!
    We are possibly at a crossroads here.

    The iPhone battery issues of late should show us that smaller capacities will lead to more charging cycles as people use their phones more often during the day and if you combine that with the possible need to actually change batteries due to them depleting within the normal use of the phones (due to longer upgrade cycles), you can envisage a problem that needs tackling and one way to achieve that is through removable batteries. Another is by designing repair into the design itself. Not 'repairs' that could lead to phone damage (like now) but true repair - by design.

    Gaskets are not the only way to handle water issues. There are nano coatings too. P2i comes to mind.

    I mentioned 'crossroads' at the start because it seems we are always close to a technological leap in battery techtech  never seems to happen but you can't help but think it could be near.

    The only crossroads I hope for is u leaving and joining an Android forum where u can be happy because nothing Apple does pleases you.
    So how did I accumulate all this Apple gear?

    Little of what Apple does today pleases me.

    And?

    Do you really think things can't change?

    Tim Cook and Jony I've won't be around forever and I am convinced that there are dissenting voices within Apple on things like how the Mac platform is being managed.

    Do actually disagree on what I wrote? Or was it simply a cheap stab?
    Nothing you write is anything more than a cheap stab at Apple. 

    Whiile the iPhone 7 was not as good as the 6S for battery the 8 is better than the 7 despite having a smaller battery.  That means that so long as Apple improves the power efficiency there isn’t a shorter charging cycle and there isn’t a problem.  The battery issues were with the 6 which has the largest battery for the current 6-6s-7-8 body design.

    We see battery issues because the replacement cycle time has increased because carriers no longer support 2 year replacement cycles with their contracts.

    Android device replacement cycles have always been shorter than iOS which is why you don’t see as many issues about battery.  If you want the latest OS you still have to buy a new flagship every couple years.

    https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/02/android-versus-ios-software-updates-revisited-two-years-later/

    i dont always address your snide concern troll crap but it’s not because it’s not crap as much as you aren’t worth the effort.
    tmay
  • Reply 24 of 30
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    macxpress said:
    But but...we want a removable battery. It should be easy to just put a seal around the battery door. /s

    Planned obsolesce!
    We are possibly at a crossroads here.

    The iPhone battery issues of late should show us that smaller capacities will lead to more charging cycles as people use their phones more often during the day and if you combine that with the possible need to actually change batteries due to them depleting within the normal use of the phones (due to longer upgrade cycles), you can envisage a problem that needs tackling and one way to achieve that is through removable batteries. Another is by designing repair into the design itself. Not 'repairs' that could lead to phone damage (like now) but true repair - by design.

    Gaskets are not the only way to handle water issues. There are nano coatings too. P2i comes to mind.

    I mentioned 'crossroads' at the start because it seems we are always close to a technological leap in battery techtech  never seems to happen but you can't help but think it could be near.

    The only crossroads I hope for is u leaving and joining an Android forum where u can be happy because nothing Apple does pleases you.
    So how did I accumulate all this Apple gear?

    Little of what Apple does today pleases me.

    And?

    Do you really think things can't change?

    Tim Cook and Jony I've won't be around forever and I am convinced that there are dissenting voices within Apple on things like how the Mac platform is being managed.

    Do actually disagree on what I wrote? Or was it simply a cheap stab?
    Nothing you write is anything more than a cheap stab at Apple. 

    Whiile the iPhone 7 was not as good as the 6S for battery the 8 is better than the 7 despite having a smaller battery.  That means that so long as Apple improves the power efficiency there isn’t a shorter charging cycle and there isn’t a problem.  The battery issues were with the 6 which has the largest battery for the current 6-6s-7-8 body design.

    We see battery issues because the replacement cycle time has increased because carriers no longer support 2 year replacement cycles with their contracts.

    Android device replacement cycles have always been shorter than iOS which is why you don’t see as many issues about battery.  If you want the latest OS you still have to buy a new flagship every couple years.

    https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/02/android-versus-ios-software-updates-revisited-two-years-later/

    i dont always address your snide concern troll crap but it’s not because it’s not crap as much as you aren’t worth the effort.
    So you agree!

    Whatever the reason, if replacing the battery is likely going to be necessary within the useful life of the phone, FACTOR THE REPLACEMENT PROCESS INTO THE DESIGN. And do it so that the risk to tech and phone is reduced to a minimum. That isn't the case today. So much so that I was given a direct warning by Apple that simply removing the screen could see it break in the process.

    As for waterproofing, the more protection the better but it should also accommodate repair. That isn't the case today.

    You cannot possibly say the 8 series will not have the same problems as the 6 series. That will be seen further down the line. And you simply don't know what impact efficiency improvements will have during the lifetime of the phone.

    Cycles are not the sole factor involved. There is temperature and voltage control during charging that can also have a major impact on battery life.

    This is from your own link:

    "First of all, we have to take into account that Android is exceptionally modular — leaps and bounds above iOS, in fact. This modularity arguably makes OS updates much less relevant on Android than they are on iOS since systems apps like the Play Store, Gmail, Maps, Calendar — and even ones like Google Play services or WebView — are all updated independently of the operating system. Not only does this mean that system apps can be updated regularly and independently of the OS, it also means that being stuck on an old OS version doesn't equate to being stuck with outdated system apps like on iOS".
    edited June 13 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 25 of 30
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 2,511member
    The Apple Watch is quite happy with only two openings:  The mic and the speaker -- and both have been waterproofed.

    (Yes, I know it has a diagnostic port under the band.  But that is sealed and only accessed at a specialized repair facility.)

    I see the iPhone headed in the same direction.

    As for other products:  the need for waterproofing is not quite as great, but it would be good to see.  Maybe the MacBook line could even catch up to Lenovo:


  • Reply 26 of 30
    nhtnht Posts: 4,177member
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    macxpress said:
    But but...we want a removable battery. It should be easy to just put a seal around the battery door. /s

    Planned obsolesce!
    We are possibly at a crossroads here.

    The iPhone battery issues of late should show us that smaller capacities will lead to more charging cycles as people use their phones more often during the day and if you combine that with the possible need to actually change batteries due to them depleting within the normal use of the phones (due to longer upgrade cycles), you can envisage a problem that needs tackling and one way to achieve that is through removable batteries. Another is by designing repair into the design itself. Not 'repairs' that could lead to phone damage (like now) but true repair - by design.

    Gaskets are not the only way to handle water issues. There are nano coatings too. P2i comes to mind.

    I mentioned 'crossroads' at the start because it seems we are always close to a technological leap in battery techtech  never seems to happen but you can't help but think it could be near.

    The only crossroads I hope for is u leaving and joining an Android forum where u can be happy because nothing Apple does pleases you.
    So how did I accumulate all this Apple gear?

    Little of what Apple does today pleases me.

    And?

    Do you really think things can't change?

    Tim Cook and Jony I've won't be around forever and I am convinced that there are dissenting voices within Apple on things like how the Mac platform is being managed.

    Do actually disagree on what I wrote? Or was it simply a cheap stab?
    Nothing you write is anything more than a cheap stab at Apple. 

    Whiile the iPhone 7 was not as good as the 6S for battery the 8 is better than the 7 despite having a smaller battery.  That means that so long as Apple improves the power efficiency there isn’t a shorter charging cycle and there isn’t a problem.  The battery issues were with the 6 which has the largest battery for the current 6-6s-7-8 body design.

    We see battery issues because the replacement cycle time has increased because carriers no longer support 2 year replacement cycles with their contracts.

    Android device replacement cycles have always been shorter than iOS which is why you don’t see as many issues about battery.  If you want the latest OS you still have to buy a new flagship every couple years.

    https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/02/android-versus-ios-software-updates-revisited-two-years-later/

    i dont always address your snide concern troll crap but it’s not because it’s not crap as much as you aren’t worth the effort.
    So you agree!

    Whatever the reason, if replacing the battery is likely going to be necessary within the useful life of the phone, FACTOR THE REPLACEMENT PROCESS INTO THE DESIGN. And do it so that the risk to tech and phone is reduced to a minimum. That isn't the case today. So much so that I was given a direct warning by Apple that simply removing the screen could see it break in the process.

    As for waterproofing, the more protection the better but it should also accommodate repair. That isn't the case today.

    You cannot possibly say the 8 series will not have the same problems as the 6 series. That will be seen further down the line. And you simply don't know what impact efficiency improvements will have during the lifetime of the phone.

    Cycles are not the sole factor involved. There is temperature and voltage control during charging that can also have a major impact on battery life.
    More BS.  No I don't agree you jerk.  Battery replacement IS factored into the design.  That you can't replace the battery doesn't mean that it isn't doable by someone technically competent and willing to take the risk of doing it themselves.



    The iPhone X has a repairability if 6 out of 10 same as the Pixel 2, higher than the Note 8 and S9 (4/10), higher than the OnePlus 6 (5/10), higher than the Huawei P20 Pro (4/10).

    So your "point" is bullshit.  

    Waterproofing requires seals and adhesives.  Heating the phone enough to remove the adhesive to open the phone can wreck the display.  That Apple tells you there is risk of opening the phone is expected.  That most competent kiosk technicians can replace the battery on both the iPhone and Samsung means it can be done safely but for me, it's worth it to just let Apple do it because if they botch the job I get a replacement phone. 
    • I can say that the 8 series will be better than the 7 series because the run times are longer when using the same version of iOS.
    • I can say that the hardware efficiency gains means that the charge cycle is reduced from that of the 7 over the lifetime of the phone.
    • I can say with confidence that Apple's warranty is better than Samsung.
    • I can say with confidence that you are nothing more than a concern troll.
    edited June 13 watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 30
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,504member
    Gosh folks I was just kidding and making a snide remark toward all of the armchair engineers who think its easy to just put a door on a phone and make it as waterproof as today's, or even better. 
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 30
    nhtnht Posts: 4,177member
    macxpress said:
    Gosh folks I was just kidding and making a snide remark toward all of the armchair engineers who think its easy to just put a door on a phone and make it as waterproof as today's, or even better. 
    Ah, so it was YOUR fault that you left the door open so the trolls could scurry in.
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 30
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    macxpress said:
    But but...we want a removable battery. It should be easy to just put a seal around the battery door. /s

    Planned obsolesce!
    We are possibly at a crossroads here.

    The iPhone battery issues of late should show us that smaller capacities will lead to more charging cycles as people use their phones more often during the day and if you combine that with the possible need to actually change batteries due to them depleting within the normal use of the phones (due to longer upgrade cycles), you can envisage a problem that needs tackling and one way to achieve that is through removable batteries. Another is by designing repair into the design itself. Not 'repairs' that could lead to phone damage (like now) but true repair - by design.

    Gaskets are not the only way to handle water issues. There are nano coatings too. P2i comes to mind.

    I mentioned 'crossroads' at the start because it seems we are always close to a technological leap in battery techtech  never seems to happen but you can't help but think it could be near.

    The only crossroads I hope for is u leaving and joining an Android forum where u can be happy because nothing Apple does pleases you.
    So how did I accumulate all this Apple gear?

    Little of what Apple does today pleases me.

    And?

    Do you really think things can't change?

    Tim Cook and Jony I've won't be around forever and I am convinced that there are dissenting voices within Apple on things like how the Mac platform is being managed.

    Do actually disagree on what I wrote? Or was it simply a cheap stab?
    Nothing you write is anything more than a cheap stab at Apple. 

    Whiile the iPhone 7 was not as good as the 6S for battery the 8 is better than the 7 despite having a smaller battery.  That means that so long as Apple improves the power efficiency there isn’t a shorter charging cycle and there isn’t a problem.  The battery issues were with the 6 which has the largest battery for the current 6-6s-7-8 body design.

    We see battery issues because the replacement cycle time has increased because carriers no longer support 2 year replacement cycles with their contracts.

    Android device replacement cycles have always been shorter than iOS which is why you don’t see as many issues about battery.  If you want the latest OS you still have to buy a new flagship every couple years.

    https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/02/android-versus-ios-software-updates-revisited-two-years-later/

    i dont always address your snide concern troll crap but it’s not because it’s not crap as much as you aren’t worth the effort.
    So you agree!

    Whatever the reason, if replacing the battery is likely going to be necessary within the useful life of the phone, FACTOR THE REPLACEMENT PROCESS INTO THE DESIGN. And do it so that the risk to tech and phone is reduced to a minimum. That isn't the case today. So much so that I was given a direct warning by Apple that simply removing the screen could see it break in the process.

    As for waterproofing, the more protection the better but it should also accommodate repair. That isn't the case today.

    You cannot possibly say the 8 series will not have the same problems as the 6 series. That will be seen further down the line. And you simply don't know what impact efficiency improvements will have during the lifetime of the phone.

    Cycles are not the sole factor involved. There is temperature and voltage control during charging that can also have a major impact on battery life.
    More BS.  No I don't agree you jerk.  Battery replacement IS factored into the design.  That you can't replace the battery doesn't mean that it isn't doable by someone technically competent and willing to take the risk of doing it themselves.



    The iPhone X has a repairability if 6 out of 10 same as the Pixel 2, higher than the Note 8 and S9 (4/10), higher than the OnePlus 6 (5/10), higher than the Huawei P20 Pro (4/10).

    So your "point" is bullshit.  

    Waterproofing requires seals and adhesives.  Heating the phone enough to remove the adhesive to open the phone can wreck the display.  That Apple tells you there is risk of opening the phone is expected.  That most competent kiosk technicians can replace the battery on both the iPhone and Samsung means it can be done safely but for me, it's worth it to just let Apple do it because if they botch the job I get a replacement phone. 
    • I can say that the 8 series will be better than the 7 series because the run times are longer when using the same version of iOS.
    • I can say that the hardware efficiency gains means that the charge cycle is reduced from that of the 7 over the lifetime of the phone.
    • I can say with confidence that Apple's warranty is better than Samsung.
    • I can say with confidence that you are nothing more than a concern troll.
    No. You cannot even begin to speak of series 8 battery use because you have  no idea what could happen. You don't know if some game or other resource hungry app could come along, become the fad of the day and lead to people draining their phones faster. VR? AR?definitely candidates. You have no idea if in the last two years people are actually using their phones more than two years before. Something that is quite possible now that phone addiction is being openly talked about. 

    Why on earth are you throwing Samsung in here? This is about APPLE. If you want to speak about Samsung, my opinion is identical, though.

    Warranties? Does Apple now have waterproof warranties?

    Nano coatings. I gave an example. They are already being used.

    Repair. Battery replacement is 'doable' but it is not factored into the design of the phone, hence the very reason for not only warnings on EVERY out of warranty Apple repair but Apple will also try to get you to sign for acceptance of any damage incurred during a battery swap. That is because they are not designed with battery swapping in mind. After repair, your device is no longer 'guaranteed' to have the same IP rating either. When something is 'doable', it is one thing but that has nothing to do with making battery swapping safer or easier by design. Changing a 2009 iMac hard drive is 'doable' but you have to remove the glass, take out the screen assembly etc to do it. That wasn't something that was designed with drive replacement in mind but it was 'doable'. As a result of being 'doable', the process lead to other issues like dust getting between the panel and the glass. The result was Apple designing a special dust removal kit! 
    edited June 13 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 30 of 30
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,640member
    crowley said:
    Waterproof is a commonly used term.  Being 20m underwater is not a common scenario.  If the dictionary definition does not meet the usage, therefore the definition is wrong and needs to be updated.

    Lots of words have scientific or engineering meanings that differ from common use meanings.
    Just repeating what Apple says about the Watch not being waterproof. They claim it is water resistant.

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205000

    I get your meaning though. Waterproof is in common usage, such as a slicker or galoshes, but this article is very scientific and does discuss engineering so using words that have precise scientific definitions is not inappropriate in my opinion. Water resistant ≠ waterproof.
    muthuk_vanalingam
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