Michael Dell has never been a product innovator. He was initially an innovator in distribution model, but then he really came into his own as an innovator in shady deals. The real secret to Dell's success for many years was a deal to completely shut out AMD in exchange for kickbacks from Intel. It was the dissolution of that deal under intense competitive pressure from the Athlon 64 X2 that ended that gravy train for Dell. Now Dell is innovating in the realm of shady stock deals.
Eh. I was never happy at the court decision in the Intel case. In virtually every industry, exclusivity deals are not only common, they’re standard.
the truth is that nobody wanted an AMD chip in their machine, unless there was a hearty discount. Even after the deals were stopped, and didn’t get their foot in the door, because except for a short time, AMD was a bargain chip company, not a performance leader.
Kind of a different set of issues you raise there. Everything you say could be true without changing the fact that Dell is not a product innovator and that Dell benefited quite a bit from that deal.
But as it happens, I have some nits to pick with your assessment.
First, there was a stretch of several years when AMD was unambiguously the performance leader. The Athlon was superior to the Pentium 4 and the Athlon 64, especially the X2, was superior to the Pentium 4. AMD even was beating Intel in the server market for a period of time with Opteron, because Intel refused to make a 64 bit x86 chip (trying to push people to Itanium).
Second, exclusivity deals are common and generally legal, but the rules can, do, and should change when a monopolist (or near-monopolist) is involved. This is one of the things I love about Apple's business model -- they aren't close to being a monopolist in any reasonably defined market, so they can do all the exclusive deals they want. You don't like the terms for selling in the App Store? Well, go sell in the Google Play store to a much larger market. Apple's X-power is that they have antitrust prosecution resistance built into their DNA.
It was about 2.5 years, when Intel was in the last stages of Netburst, and because of their crappy chip plants, and gave up trying to catch Intel in speed. So they cleverly did what Apple and partners were doing with the PPC, and went slow and wide. That saved them from the heat death Intel was experiencing. The Athlon had about a 10% performance lead, and about 5-10% better power draw. Good, but not great.
However, after Prescott, Intel shocked everyone who thought they were in a death spiral, by going back to their M series and produced the Yonah, which is what convinced Apple to move to x86. That was thea beginning of the end for AMD, because again, they were far outclassed. With their incredible mistake with Bulldozer, which they stuck with for years and years, it seemed as though AMD was finished.
with their new chips, they’ve regained some life. But as usual, by pricing their chips well below what’s needed for a good profit, they’re on the heavy discount bandwagon. The truth is, they could never sell their chips if they priced them for a good profit.
Yup, I agree with all this.
I'm amazed AMD is still in business after Intel struck back with their Core architecture.
But I think I might be more optimistic about AMD's chances now than it sounds like you are. For reasons that have little to do with AMD, we appear to be on the cusp of the unthinkable -- Intel losing the edge in fab process to the foundries. While volume production with Intel's 10nm process appears to be seriously delayed, at least until the second half of next year, TSMC is coming out with 7nm (what they call "7" is similar to Intel's "10") this year with the iPhone. And thanks to the petrodollars backing GloFo, AMD will have access to a similar 7nm process next year. It's very possible that AMD will beat Intel to the next process node with volume production of the Ryzen 3 (or whatever they choose to call it). Personally, I would not be buying Intel stock right now.
The foundries aren't advancing faster than Intel because they want AMD's business -- they're doing it because they want business from premium smartphone makers like Apple and, to a lesser extent, maybe Nvidia. But AMD gets to go along for the ride and 2019 could be a tough year for Intel.
I think the process issue is more complicated than most writers comprehend, or are willing to acknowledge. It’s been true that Intel’s 14nm+ processes are more than equivalent to any of the other 10nm processes. My belief is that Intel doesn’t want to do what these other companies are doing, which is really, at best, advancing a half node in density, while calling it a full node. Very likely, Intel’s latest version of 14+++ is at least equal to everybody else’s 10nm.
the big problem for Intel isn’t technical problems (ok, maybe a little bit!) but rather the marketing war. People don’t understand any of this, and sometimes big corporations, who should know better, get caught up in it too. Supposedly, Intel will begin their commercial production of 10nm late this year, or early next year. Likely, it will be close to, or at least equal to everybody else’s 7nm.
I agree that 14 nm+++ is as good as, and perhaps in some ways better, than others' 10nm. But that's not what I'm talking about.
I am actually under the impression that Intel's 10 nm (roughly equivalent to everyone else's 7nm) won't be in volume production until the second half of next year (2019). TSMC is likely in volume production of their 7nm mode right now, building up supply for the new iPhone. It strikes me as a very big deal that Intel might be about to fall behind in process technology. Heck, 3 years ago I would have said it would be a big deal for Intels lead to fall below a year -- but to actually lose the lead? That's an earthquake.
Since I’ve not been able to find anything really specific on Intel’s problems, I can’t say what problems they’re having, or why they’re having them. Is it yield, or is it performance? Is ut that intel is trying to have a more advanced product, and can’t quite get it going? Who knows? But it’s bad publicity, that’s for sure.
intels chips are also much bigger generally, and more complex, and it could be that reason why they’re having more problems.
Dell typically makes ugly bulky computers that aren't unique or special in any way shape or form.
Right up until they don't
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
That's not an ugly bulky computer.
The body is made of aluminum and carbon fiber.
It houses a 6-core i9-8950HK, GTX 1050Ti 4 GB, 32 GB DDR4, 1 TB PCIe SSD, fingerprint sensor, 97 Wh battery and has a low bezel 4K 400 nit IPS display with >100% Adobe RGB. In terms of ports it has a USB-C Thunderbolt 3, USB-A, HDMI 2.0, and an SD card slot. All of that in a 4.5 lbs package.
It's definitely a unique computer. The XPS 15 in general has been well reviewed over the past few years.
Yeah I'm sure they sell hundreds of them....
So basically, its a standard PC you can buy anywhere today? It's not unique. Its a standard wedge shaped PC laptop running a shitty OS.
And who the hell is gonna pay $1800+ for a freaking Dell? As soon as you crack the seal its only worth $500 and tanks from there.
Just stop it already. You’re now being just too chauvinistic. Dell makes some pretty good machines. Learn to live with that.
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
Both are going to be plastic. There’s no way that’s metal. The diagonal ribbing on the black makes me think it might be carbon fiber, though. So that’s great; plastic and carbon fiber.
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
Both are going to be plastic. There’s no way that’s metal. The diagonal ribbing on the black makes me think it might be carbon fiber, though. So that’s great; plastic and carbon fiber.
Dell typically makes ugly bulky computers that aren't unique or special in any way shape or form.
Right up until they don't
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
According to their website it’s carbon fiber (aka fancy plastic).
I have to admit, from a spec sheet perspective it’s a great laptop, including materials and dimensions.
but somehow they still manage to make it look like crap
To put this in perspective, Dell last Fiscal year made $78B and they employee 138,000 people so they make 1/3 as much as Apple and employee more people than Apple and keep in mind Apple has retail stores so they have a large number of people focusing on retail. Dell's employee to earning is not very efficient as compare to Apple's. Each Apple employee generate 3X more revenue for the company.
Their tracking stock puts the market cap at $18B and they have been loosing money only recently have they turned any sort of profit.
Revenue/employee can be interesting but isn't necessarily a good ratio for comparison, especially in industries where there's a lot of outsourcing. Apple could add tens of thousands of workers if you include the people assembling iPhones. The Apple workers aren't necessarily more efficient, they just aren't counted in the stats. I'm not completely familiar with EMC but I believe they had more of their own manufacturing than Apple does. Dell not so much.
Revenue per employee is very useful when comparing like to like. It’s even useful when comparing industry to industry.
Exactly, when comparing like for like. My point was that I believe, and I could be wrong, that EMC still manufactures a lot of their gear so they have their own employees. Apple/Dell use Foxconn's employees so their ratio will be naturally different. Not better, just different.
Dell typically makes ugly bulky computers that aren't unique or special in any way shape or form.
Right up until they don't
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
According to their website it’s carbon fiber (aka fancy plastic).
I have to admit, from a spec sheet perspective it’s a great laptop, including materials and dimensions.
but somehow they still manage to make it look like crap
Tell Boeing that the carbon fiber they make their most advanced aircraft from is “just fancy plastic” if Apple went to it as was rumored, you would just love it.
To put this in perspective, Dell last Fiscal year made $78B and they employee 138,000 people so they make 1/3 as much as Apple and employee more people than Apple and keep in mind Apple has retail stores so they have a large number of people focusing on retail. Dell's employee to earning is not very efficient as compare to Apple's. Each Apple employee generate 3X more revenue for the company.
Their tracking stock puts the market cap at $18B and they have been loosing money only recently have they turned any sort of profit.
Revenue/employee can be interesting but isn't necessarily a good ratio for comparison, especially in industries where there's a lot of outsourcing. Apple could add tens of thousands of workers if you include the people assembling iPhones. The Apple workers aren't necessarily more efficient, they just aren't counted in the stats. I'm not completely familiar with EMC but I believe they had more of their own manufacturing than Apple does. Dell not so much.
Revenue per employee is very useful when comparing like to like. It’s even useful when comparing industry to industry.
Exactly, when comparing like for like. My point was that I believe, and I could be wrong, that EMC still manufactures a lot of their gear so they have their own employees. Apple/Dell use Foxconn's employees so their ratio will be naturally different. Not better, just different.
It’s really an indicator of corporate efficiency. The fewer employees to produce a product, the higher all the margins are. With companies like Apple, which don’t manufacturer their own goods, and have hundreds of stores, it gets more complex. But still, portions of the company can be pulled out and compared.
Dell typically makes ugly bulky computers that aren't unique or special in any way shape or form.
Right up until they don't
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
That's not an ugly bulky computer.
The body is made of aluminum and carbon fiber.
It houses a 6-core i9-8950HK, GTX 1050Ti 4 GB, 32 GB DDR4, 1 TB PCIe SSD, fingerprint sensor, 97 Wh battery and has a low bezel 4K 400 nit IPS display with >100% Adobe RGB. In terms of ports it has a USB-C Thunderbolt 3, USB-A, HDMI 2.0, and an SD card slot. All of that in a 4.5 lbs package.
It's definitely a unique computer. The XPS 15 in general has been well reviewed over the past few years.
Yeah I'm sure they sell hundreds of them....
So basically, its a standard PC you can buy anywhere today? It's not unique. Its a standard wedge shaped PC laptop running a shitty OS.
And who the hell is gonna pay $1800+ for a freaking Dell? As soon as you crack the seal its only worth $500 and tanks from there.
Just stop it already. You’re now being just too chauvinistic. Dell makes some pretty good machines. Learn to live with that.
Yeah they make pretty good shitty PC's. The best of the worst I guess. Not to worry though, they'll be dead in a few years. They can't survive on PC sales.
Dell typically makes ugly bulky computers that aren't unique or special in any way shape or form.
Right up until they don't
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
According to their website it’s carbon fiber (aka fancy plastic).
I have to admit, from a spec sheet perspective it’s a great laptop, including materials and dimensions.
but somehow they still manage to make it look like crap
Tell Boeing that the carbon fiber they make their most advanced aircraft from is “just fancy plastic” if Apple went to it as was rumored, you would just love it.
What does Boeing have to do with making computers?
Friends don’t let friends buy Dell . Say no to Dell.
Isn’t Dell basically a B2B company for small/midsize companies. Yeah they still sell consumer PCs but it seems like they’re more about technology solutions for businesses these days.
I thought they just made monitors for doctors and dentists.
Dell typically makes ugly bulky computers that aren't unique or special in any way shape or form.
Right up until they don't
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
That's not an ugly bulky computer.
The body is made of aluminum and carbon fiber.
It houses a 6-core i9-8950HK, GTX 1050Ti 4 GB, 32 GB DDR4, 1 TB PCIe SSD, fingerprint sensor, 97 Wh battery and has a low bezel 4K 400 nit IPS display with >100% Adobe RGB. In terms of ports it has a USB-C Thunderbolt 3, USB-A, HDMI 2.0, and an SD card slot. All of that in a 4.5 lbs package.
It's definitely a unique computer. The XPS 15 in general has been well reviewed over the past few years.
Yeah I'm sure they sell hundreds of them....
So basically, its a standard PC you can buy anywhere today? It's not unique. Its a standard wedge shaped PC laptop running a shitty OS.
And who the hell is gonna pay $1800+ for a freaking Dell? As soon as you crack the seal its only worth $500 and tanks from there.
Just stop it already. You’re now being just too chauvinistic. Dell makes some pretty good machines. Learn to live with that.
Yeah they make pretty good shitty PC's. The best of the worst I guess. Not to worry though, they'll be dead in a few years. They can't survive on PC sales.
Yeah sure. If that’s what you want to believe, go with it.
Dell typically makes ugly bulky computers that aren't unique or special in any way shape or form.
Right up until they don't
Like David said...all they make is ugly computers that aren't special or unique. Thanks for proving his point. And don't tell me thats plastic on the top portion of the palm rest.
According to their website it’s carbon fiber (aka fancy plastic).
I have to admit, from a spec sheet perspective it’s a great laptop, including materials and dimensions.
but somehow they still manage to make it look like crap
Tell Boeing that the carbon fiber they make their most advanced aircraft from is “just fancy plastic” if Apple went to it as was rumored, you would just love it.
What does Boeing have to do with making computers?
Sheesh! You aren’t getting it. When someone calls carbon fiber materials just plastic, it shows they don’t know what they’re talking about. Using high performance aircraft as an example as to the fact that it’s a lot more than just plastic, seems to have gone over your head.
Dell is freaking useless craps. I say that because I supported Dell laptops before. Hundreds of tickets per day. Better buy a Mac that lasts a lifetime. On the contrary, it gives u a job to fix Dell laptops.
Comments
intels chips are also much bigger generally, and more complex, and it could be that reason why they’re having more problems.
I have to admit, from a spec sheet perspective it’s a great laptop, including materials and dimensions.
but somehow they still manage to make it look like crap
What does Boeing have to do with making computers?
Not me, unless "Dell Freezes Over!