Hmm...quad core in a 13” machine. Not that I don’t believe it, but...
I’d really like quad core in a 13” machine, more than hexacore in a 15”. Do we have data on what graphics it’s running? Because, if it’s not the Iris graphics for that chip, then it probably isn’t a 13” form factor. Unless they’ve done something truly amazing with cooling.
Quads in the 13" and hexas in the 15" are what's expected this round.
I haven't seen anything on that other than Intel released a 6-core chip in the series, which people started wishing for. I'd like something a bit more solid to pin my hopes on than that.
It's possible I missed it, but so far the only people I've seen speculating are people on message boards.
Just to clarify the mention of RAM a bit: Coffee Lake is another chip that can’t physically address more than 16GB of LPDDR3 RAM. At present, it would appear that the earliest Intel will produce a chip of this class that will address anything more than 16GB is late this year, making it likely that the small number of MBP users who actually need more than that will have to wait till about this time next year.
I suppose you can blame Apple for not completely redesigning the machine to use some other type of RAM, but really this is Intel’s fault for missing their deadlines on their roadmap.
As for this benchmark, it might be real or it might be fake, but if Coffee Lake offers genuinely improved performance and/or meets some of Apple’s other criteria viz benefits to buyers, then there will be a new MBP this year — and if it doesn’t offer sufficient improvements over the present model, there won’t.
Just to clarify the mention of RAM a bit: Coffee Lake is another chip that can’t physically address more than 16GB of LPDDR3 RAM. At present, it would appear that the earliest Intel will produce a chip of this class that will address anything more than 16GB is late this year, making it likely that the small number of MBP users who actually need more than that will have to wait till about this time next year.
I suppose you can blame Apple for not completely redesigning the machine to use some other type of RAM, but really this is Intel’s fault for missing their deadlines on their roadmap.
As for this benchmark, it might be real or it might be fake, but if Coffee Lake offers genuinely improved performance and/or meets some of Apple’s other criteria viz benefits to buyers, then there will be a new MBP this year — and if it doesn’t offer sufficient improvements over the present model, there won’t.
I can see where possibly Apple designed the current MacBook Pro with the idea that Intel would have had the chips they promised out by now instead of delaying them over and over again. Why should Apple have to spend billions redesigning their laptop just because Intel can't deliver? This is the PPC all over again.
Still remotely hoping for a laptop with MacOS, 17in, matte screen, core i7, 500gb SSD, 16gb ram for less than $4000. Plastic case and thicker is perfect.
And you're gonna keep on hoping too for a very long time. This isn't ever coming back. It was dropped because it didn't sell so why would Apple ever just decide to bring it back? You people need to just get over the 17" MacBook Pro already.
I have trouble thinking the current Minis and Mac Pros sell and they are getting renewed, so maybe there is a little hope.
I didn't know that it didn't sell well. I wonder when the 17" peak was?
I wonder if it’s necessary today. The 15-inch one have 4K resolution at maximum, which simulates 1920x1200, that’s the same resolution with older 17-inch. It sure looks smaller, but with a shaper feel in the same workspace, I don’t think having a 17-inch really gives a huge advantage — unless Apple wants to aim the 17-inch with a higher resolution (say a 4K native resolution and even higher scaled one), but then 1920x1200 is sufficient enough for most things.
Do these benchmarks generally get submitted by accident, or are they purposely seeded for some marketing reason?
Benchmarks are a techie’s wet dream but doesn’t the operating system and app software have to be able to use multiple cores in order to see actual benefits?
macOS apps since Snow Leopard using Grand Central Dispatch will already scale pretty well.
Furthermore, if a problem is inherently serial, we get this tasty 4.5GHz single core turbo from this new chip too, so even non-scalable problems are boosted.
Further-er more, even if one program doesn't scale well, you can still multitask and do other things at the same time on more cores.
I absolutely notice a difference going from my 2015 15" quad to current dual core 13"s, even just being a quick ADHD prosumer, lol.
I suppose you can blame Apple for not completely redesigning the machine to use some other type of RAM, but really this is Intel’s fault for missing their deadlines on their roadmap.
As for this benchmark, it might be real or it might be fake, but if Coffee Lake offers genuinely improved performance and/or meets some of Apple’s other criteria viz benefits to buyers, then there will be a new MBP this year — and if it doesn’t offer sufficient improvements over the present model, there won’t.
But you can blame Apple for being WAY behind the curve on current CPU offerings and/or not having platforms that can adapt to CPU upgrades (e.g. Mac Mini, Pro which *easily* could have received CPU updates). 8th gen quad cores could have been put into the MBP 13 6 months ago (and that's a huge boost)... 6-cores have been out for a few months now that could be implemented in the MBP 15.
Now maybe there's a delay because they got caught off guard with this keyboard issue and can't release a MBP without a solid fix to that issue, but they should have been aware of that for some time and fighting that fire.
I haven't seen a valid argument that doesn't show that the folks on the Mac design/ME/EE side have been hitting the snooze button... I'm worried as Apple has grown SJ's fear of big company B's/C's/bozo inflitration has been occurring at APPL and the impact starting to show in the products
Still remotely hoping for a laptop with MacOS, 17in, matte screen, core i7, 500gb SSD, 16gb ram for less than $4000. Plastic case and thicker is perfect.
And you're gonna keep on hoping too for a very long time. This isn't ever coming back. It was dropped because it didn't sell so why would Apple ever just decide to bring it back? You people need to just get over the 17" MacBook Pro already.
I have trouble thinking the current Minis and Mac Pros sell and they are getting renewed, so maybe there is a little hope.
I didn't know that it didn't sell well. I wonder when the 17" peak was?
I wonder if it’s necessary today. The 15-inch one have 4K resolution at maximum, which simulates 1920x1200, that’s the same resolution with older 17-inch. It sure looks smaller, but with a shaper feel in the same workspace, I don’t think having a 17-inch really gives a huge advantage — unless Apple wants to aim the 17-inch with a higher resolution (say a 4K native resolution and even higher scaled one), but then 1920x1200 is sufficient enough for most things.
Having sold the things for eight year at the time, I can tell you that I had ONE customer buy the 17" model for the size — literally everybody else bought it for the resolution. Sales were very low, though.
When the retina 'Books came out, there was absolutely no reason to keep the 17" in the lineup.
Hmm...quad core in a 13” machine. Not that I don’t believe it, but...
I’d really like quad core in a 13” machine, more than hexacore in a 15”. Do we have data on what graphics it’s running? Because, if it’s not the Iris graphics for that chip, then it probably isn’t a 13” form factor. Unless they’ve done something truly amazing with cooling.
Quads in the 13" and hexas in the 15" are what's expected this round.
I haven't seen anything on that other than Intel released a 6-core chip in the series, which people started wishing for. I'd like something a bit more solid to pin my hopes on than that.
It's possible I missed it, but so far the only people I've seen speculating are people on message boards.
Well, how about ”... speculated this round”. Any good reason to think they wouldn’t use those parts?
Please Apple I’m begging you: 15” MacBook Pro WITHOUT TOUCHBAR!
Or at least open it up to any ol' custom key config we want. I might actually get some use out of mine if I could create a strip with the first three function keys and a few with key combos (like Option+Command+3 as an arbitrary example).
It would change my world if I could create number keys that "pretend" to be on the numeric keypad -- Pro Tools assigns different functions to the numbers along the top row of the QWERTY section and those on the numeric keypad, and my workflow relies heavily on the ones on the numeric keyboard. Trying to work in Pro Tools on an Apple laptop is like trying to drive with one hand in your pocket... you can do it, but it sure is uncomfortable.
Man, the touch bar is amazing, why would you say that? Have you used a Mac for a week or so with one? I find going back to any of my other Macs after using my wee MBP +TB is painful. It is so damned useful. I reach for it all the time on my Mac Pro and slap my forehead. In fact if Apple were to bring out an external butterfly keyboard with touch bar as a stand alone add on for Mac Pros and iMacs I'd but two immediately. It's contextual in every application I run with multiple nested instruction sets and so intuitive to use. What on earth is not to like ... ? Go on please list all the reasons why you state it is 'silly'?
No haptic feedback for the ESC key drives the productivity down. The ESC key is one of the most used keys in all my applications I am currently using. I can no longer type it blindly on a Mac with touch bar, which is a serious drawback. If the touch bar was a little bit shorter so I could have a real ESC key I would not mind the touch bar.
I find the Touch Bar's esc key no different to use. Is this a visual impairment issue when you say 'blindly' or a figure of speech? If the former then I am sorry it's an issue for you.
Man, the touch bar is amazing, why would you say that? Have you used a Mac for a week or so with one? I find going back to any of my other Macs after using my wee MBP +TB is painful. It is so damned useful. I reach for it all the time on my Mac Pro and slap my forehead. In fact if Apple were to bring out an external butterfly keyboard with touch bar as a stand alone add on for Mac Pros and iMacs I'd but two immediately. It's contextual in every application I run with multiple nested instruction sets and so intuitive to use. What on earth is not to like ... ? Go on please list all the reasons why you state it is 'silly'?
No haptic feedback for the ESC key drives the productivity down. The ESC key is one of the most used keys in all my applications I am currently using. I can no longer type it blindly on a Mac with touch bar, which is a serious drawback. If the touch bar was a little bit shorter so I could have a real ESC key I would not mind the touch bar.
I find the Touch Bar's esc key no different to use. Is this a visual impairment issue when you say 'blindly' or a figure of speech? If the former then I am sorry it's an issue for you.
there’s haptic touch bar to try. It’s a program that utilize the Taptic Engine under the trackpad.
Please Apple I’m begging you: 15” MacBook Pro WITHOUT TOUCHBAR!
Or at least open it up to any ol' custom key config we want. I might actually get some use out of mine if I could create a strip with the first three function keys and a few with key combos (like Option+Command+3 as an arbitrary example).
It would change my world if I could create number keys that "pretend" to be on the numeric keypad -- Pro Tools assigns different functions to the numbers along the top row of the QWERTY section and those on the numeric keypad, and my workflow relies heavily on the ones on the numeric keyboard. Trying to work in Pro Tools on an Apple laptop is like trying to drive with one hand in your pocket... you can do it, but it sure is uncomfortable.
I'd consider a 4-core 13" if it also has the T-1 (Touch-ID) and T-2 (secure boot) chips. I know a lot of people are not big on the Touch Bar or Touch ID, but there are cameras everywhere and no matter how fast you type in that password someone could still steal your password with an overhead camera. These days security is at the top of my list.
Just to be clear, the Touch Bar and Touch ID are two separate components. The Touch ID pad is physically located right next to the Touch Bar, and is designed to LOOK like the two are a single, contiguous piece, but they're not. Look close and you can see the seam between them. The Touch ID part is a physical button you can depress, not a "virtual" button like the ones on the Touch Bar.
It is possible to have Touch ID without the Touch Bar.
Please Apple I’m begging you: 15” MacBook Pro WITHOUT TOUCHBAR!
Or at least open it up to any ol' custom key config we want. I might actually get some use out of mine if I could create a strip with the first three function keys and a few with key combos (like Option+Command+3 as an arbitrary example).
It would change my world if I could create number keys that "pretend" to be on the numeric keypad -- Pro Tools assigns different functions to the numbers along the top row of the QWERTY section and those on the numeric keypad, and my workflow relies heavily on the ones on the numeric keyboard. Trying to work in Pro Tools on an Apple laptop is like trying to drive with one hand in your pocket... you can do it, but it sure is uncomfortable.
Have you tried bettertouchtool?
No, because I read a review that said it was kinda flakey and, with due respect to the developer, the misspellings and grammatical errors on the web site don't inspire confidence that careful attention to detail was applied to coding.
I've also had issues in the past with clever software "workarounds" introducing unintended consequences. I had trouble with some Audio Hijack plugin disrupting normal operation of my primary audio apps, and some mouse pointer tool caused all kinds of graphics issues and was a major PITA to remove. I now rarely install anything that isn't from a major, recognized name unless there's a really good reason to do so.
Please Apple I’m begging you: 15” MacBook Pro WITHOUT TOUCHBAR!
Or at least open it up to any ol' custom key config we want. I might actually get some use out of mine if I could create a strip with the first three function keys and a few with key combos (like Option+Command+3 as an arbitrary example).
It would change my world if I could create number keys that "pretend" to be on the numeric keypad -- Pro Tools assigns different functions to the numbers along the top row of the QWERTY section and those on the numeric keypad, and my workflow relies heavily on the ones on the numeric keyboard. Trying to work in Pro Tools on an Apple laptop is like trying to drive with one hand in your pocket... you can do it, but it sure is uncomfortable.
Have you tried bettertouchtool?
No, because I read a review that said it was kinda flakey and, with due respect to the developer, the misspellings and grammatical errors on the web site don't inspire confidence that careful attention to detail was applied to coding.
I've also had issues in the past with clever software "workarounds" introducing unintended consequences. I had trouble with some Audio Hijack plugin disrupting normal operation of my primary audio apps, and some mouse pointer tool caused all kinds of graphics issues and was a major PITA to remove. I now rarely install anything that isn't from a major, recognized name unless there's a really good reason to do so.
In this case, the "good reason to do so" is solving your "custom key config" problem above. I'm looking forward to building out custom AppleScript-running buttons for certain apps when I upgrade this year.
Please Apple I’m begging you: 15” MacBook Pro WITHOUT TOUCHBAR!
Or at least open it up to any ol' custom key config we want. I might actually get some use out of mine if I could create a strip with the first three function keys and a few with key combos (like Option+Command+3 as an arbitrary example).
It would change my world if I could create number keys that "pretend" to be on the numeric keypad -- Pro Tools assigns different functions to the numbers along the top row of the QWERTY section and those on the numeric keypad, and my workflow relies heavily on the ones on the numeric keyboard. Trying to work in Pro Tools on an Apple laptop is like trying to drive with one hand in your pocket... you can do it, but it sure is uncomfortable.
Have you tried bettertouchtool?
No, because I read a review that said it was kinda flakey and, with due respect to the developer, the misspellings and grammatical errors on the web site don't inspire confidence that careful attention to detail was applied to coding.
I've also had issues in the past with clever software "workarounds" introducing unintended consequences. I had trouble with some Audio Hijack plugin disrupting normal operation of my primary audio apps, and some mouse pointer tool caused all kinds of graphics issues and was a major PITA to remove. I now rarely install anything that isn't from a major, recognized name unless there's a really good reason to do so.
In this case, the "good reason to do so" is solving your "custom key config" problem above. I'm looking forward to building out custom AppleScript-running buttons for certain apps when I upgrade this year.
At least it won’t corrupt your system. Since the default presets are really awkward anyway, it’s probably worth to check it out. The software itself is community-driven, which means the people who are using it can help to improve.
Please Apple I’m begging you: 15” MacBook Pro WITHOUT TOUCHBAR!
Or at least open it up to any ol' custom key config we want. I might actually get some use out of mine if I could create a strip with the first three function keys and a few with key combos (like Option+Command+3 as an arbitrary example).
It would change my world if I could create number keys that "pretend" to be on the numeric keypad -- Pro Tools assigns different functions to the numbers along the top row of the QWERTY section and those on the numeric keypad, and my workflow relies heavily on the ones on the numeric keyboard. Trying to work in Pro Tools on an Apple laptop is like trying to drive with one hand in your pocket... you can do it, but it sure is uncomfortable.
Have you tried bettertouchtool?
No, because I read a review that said it was kinda flakey and, with due respect to the developer, the misspellings and grammatical errors on the web site don't inspire confidence that careful attention to detail was applied to coding.
I've also had issues in the past with clever software "workarounds" introducing unintended consequences. I had trouble with some Audio Hijack plugin disrupting normal operation of my primary audio apps, and some mouse pointer tool caused all kinds of graphics issues and was a major PITA to remove. I now rarely install anything that isn't from a major, recognized name unless there's a really good reason to do so.
In this case, the "good reason to do so" is solving your "custom key config" problem above. I'm looking forward to building out custom AppleScript-running buttons for certain apps when I upgrade this year.
Yeah, I phrased that poorly, didn't I? You're absolutely right about there being a "good reason" in this case. The truth is that I'm just nervous about installing software I don't trust. I can't say with certainty my concerns about BTT are valid, but since I depend on the machine for my living I tend to err on the side of caution.
What I should have written is "unless there's a really good reason to do so, and there isn't a better alternative." In this case there is at least a safer alternative: using an external keyboard.
Have you had time to try out BTT yet, or are you waiting for your upgrade? I'd be interested in reading your impressions of it.
Comments
I haven't seen anything on that other than Intel released a 6-core chip in the series, which people started wishing for. I'd like something a bit more solid to pin my hopes on than that.
It's possible I missed it, but so far the only people I've seen speculating are people on message boards.
I suppose you can blame Apple for not completely redesigning the machine to use some other type of RAM, but really this is Intel’s fault for missing their deadlines on their roadmap.
As for this benchmark, it might be real or it might be fake, but if Coffee Lake offers genuinely improved performance and/or meets some of Apple’s other criteria viz benefits to buyers, then there will be a new MBP this year — and if it doesn’t offer sufficient improvements over the present model, there won’t.
macOS apps since Snow Leopard using Grand Central Dispatch will already scale pretty well.
Furthermore, if a problem is inherently serial, we get this tasty 4.5GHz single core turbo from this new chip too, so even non-scalable problems are boosted.
Further-er more, even if one program doesn't scale well, you can still multitask and do other things at the same time on more cores.
I absolutely notice a difference going from my 2015 15" quad to current dual core 13"s, even just being a quick ADHD prosumer, lol.
But you can blame Apple for being WAY behind the curve on current CPU offerings and/or not having platforms that can adapt to CPU upgrades (e.g. Mac Mini, Pro which *easily* could have received CPU updates). 8th gen quad cores could have been put into the MBP 13 6 months ago (and that's a huge boost)... 6-cores have been out for a few months now that could be implemented in the MBP 15.
Now maybe there's a delay because they got caught off guard with this keyboard issue and can't release a MBP without a solid fix to that issue, but they should have been aware of that for some time and fighting that fire.
I haven't seen a valid argument that doesn't show that the folks on the Mac design/ME/EE side have been hitting the snooze button... I'm worried as Apple has grown SJ's fear of big company B's/C's/bozo inflitration has been occurring at APPL and the impact starting to show in the products
When the retina 'Books came out, there was absolutely no reason to keep the 17" in the lineup.
You can hack a glowing logo, though. Although I like the shiny metal one better, since I'm not a typical Starbucks user...
It would change my world if I could create number keys that "pretend" to be on the numeric keypad -- Pro Tools assigns different functions to the numbers along the top row of the QWERTY section and those on the numeric keypad, and my workflow relies heavily on the ones on the numeric keyboard. Trying to work in Pro Tools on an Apple laptop is like trying to drive with one hand in your pocket... you can do it, but it sure is uncomfortable.
It is possible to have Touch ID without the Touch Bar.
I've also had issues in the past with clever software "workarounds" introducing unintended consequences. I had trouble with some Audio Hijack plugin disrupting normal operation of my primary audio apps, and some mouse pointer tool caused all kinds of graphics issues and was a major PITA to remove. I now rarely install anything that isn't from a major, recognized name unless there's a really good reason to do so.
What I should have written is "unless there's a really good reason to do so, and there isn't a better alternative." In this case there is at least a safer alternative: using an external keyboard.
Have you had time to try out BTT yet, or are you waiting for your upgrade? I'd be interested in reading your impressions of it.