Apple's cheaper iPhones are not the volume sellers pundits predicted: iPhone 8, X are

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 105
    alexonlinealexonline Posts: 241member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei. 

    "Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"

    That's just fantasy. 

    Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%, 
    Fantasy? Keep laughing!

    https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/06/huawei-p20-pro-wins-best-smartphone-of-2018-award-by-eha.html

    Now, that's just from 100 tech writers.

    If you need more Google is your friend.
    Someone hates the P20Pro 

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/this-is-not-an-iphone-killer/news-story/b80d3abc5a0da755371a4ed5421f4e68
  • Reply 42 of 105
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,254member
    New data shows that Apple's most expensive new iPhone flagships are accomplishing this largely on their own, indicating that analyst chatter about smartphone users really wanting cheaper devices is totally delusional

    The lower-specced iPhone 8 outsold the iPhone X, which totally undermines the premise of this article. I know this has all the hallmarks of a Daniel Eran Dilger piece, but I should point out Apple doesn't actually offer any "cheaper" iPhone models. What they offer are lower-featured models at relatively high prices, designed to upsell consumers to fuller-featured products.

    Models like the iPhone SE are not selling fewer units because consumers only want cutting-edge phones; they're selling fewer units because they are overpriced for the value they offer. It's Apple's prerogative to configure their prices how they see fit, but we shouldn't infer that decisions consumers make when presented with a limited set of options is a genuine reflection of their underlying desires.

    High prices on flagship models don't just push people down to cheaper models, they also result in slower upgrade cycles. I like my iPhone X, but it was AUD$500 more expensive than my then-brand-new iPhone 6 Plus (partially due to changes in currency value) so I will be holding onto it for a while.
    asdasdKoll3mancgWerksAlex1N
  • Reply 43 of 105
    longfanglongfang Posts: 445member
    The iPhone X is not completely selling out of all production. basic economics indicates that the product would sell more if it were cheaper. People do not buy it as a status item, it's not expensive enough. Hence, there is price sensitivity in this space.

    An anecdotal example is myself. I didn't buy an X while I am very much financially capable of it. I simply could not justify a thousand dollars for what the X offers. Apple lost a sale entirely due to price in this anecdotal example. I look forward to a potential price drop this fall when I may be more open to entertaining a purchase (Unless they blow the doors off with new features that justifies a thousand dollars for a product I'm going to toss out after a couple years).
    As ypu say that’s your case. Myself I bought 2 units when they were available where I am, one for me and another for my mother. In her case with fading fingerprints and all Face ID alone was enough of a justification.
  • Reply 44 of 105
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,265member

    Trolls are up in arms. Like clockwork. Just another DED article!

  • Reply 45 of 105
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,842moderator
    KITA said:
    corrections said:

    Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 
    Google isn't the only manufacturer of Android smartphones. They've also have never had anything close to the scale and distribution levels that Apple has had.

    It's clear though that Google isn't done with Pixel phones. More so, it looks like they're just getting started.
    So in other words the phrase ‘it’s not easy’ applied to the whole enterprise of manufacturing and selling high-end smartphones.  You can’t just cast off Apple’s entire supply/manufacturing chain as though Apple was handed that.  It’s not easy means.., it’s not easy to build that out.  

    But I agree about the pixel phone.  It sure does look like Google is just getting started.  For years and years they’ve been just getting started.  Yeah, they renamed nexus to something else and now pixel, so I guess we can say they are a smartphone upstart, right?  If only considering the pixel brand and nothing else.  Oh, how you have forsaken me, Motorola!  

  • Reply 46 of 105
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,842moderator

    The iPhone X is not completely selling out of all production. basic economics indicates that the product would sell more if it were cheaper. People do not buy it as a status item, it's not expensive enough. Hence, there is price sensitivity in this space.

    An anecdotal example is myself. I didn't buy an X while I am very much financially capable of it. I simply could not justify a thousand dollars for what the X offers. Apple lost a sale entirely due to price in this anecdotal example. I look forward to a potential price drop this fall when I may be more open to entertaining a purchase (Unless they blow the doors off with new features that justifies a thousand dollars for a product I'm going to toss out after a couple years).
    Let me know what window you'll be tossing it out of.  I’ll be standing by. 
    Alex1N
  • Reply 47 of 105
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,842moderator

    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    Apple’s installed base is growing.  That means that the number of people available to purchase Androids is being cut into, unless the world population is growing faster (about an 18 year lag in that is what you’d have to look at).  Apple’s unit volumes are leveling off, but there are sales ,and gifting, of used iPhones to people who were formerly Android owners.  So not all sales of failed businesses are going to other Android vendors.  
    Alex1N
  • Reply 48 of 105
    henrybayhenrybay Posts: 144member
    Many people prefer the Home Button to Face ID - me included. This is why twice as many people choose an iPhone 8 or 8 Plus rather than the iPhone X. Therefore it would be a fundamental strategic mistake for Apple to remove the Home Button from future iPhones be iPads. 
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 49 of 105
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,842moderator
    dunks said:
    New data shows that Apple's most expensive new iPhone flagships are accomplishing this largely on their own, indicating that analyst chatter about smartphone users really wanting cheaper devices is totally delusional

    The lower-specced iPhone 8 outsold the iPhone X, which totally undermines the premise of this article. I know this has all the hallmarks of a Daniel Eran Dilger piece, but I should point out Apple doesn't actually offer any "cheaper" iPhone models. What they offer are lower-featured models at relatively high prices, designed to upsell consumers to fuller-featured products.

    Models like the iPhone SE are not selling fewer units because consumers only want cutting-edge phones; they're selling fewer units because they are overpriced for the value they offer. It's Apple's prerogative to configure their prices how they see fit, but we shouldn't infer that decisions consumers make when presented with a limited set of options is a genuine reflection of their underlying desires.

    High prices on flagship models don't just push people down to cheaper models, they also result in slower upgrade cycles. I like my iPhone X, but it was AUD$500 more expensive than my then-brand-new iPhone 6 Plus (partially due to changes in currency value) so I will be holding onto it for a while.
    Wait, you’re saying that a phone that $100 cheaper than a year ago, that’s new (not used) and does everything it did when it was launched a year earlier, plus some new tricks because it’s got a new OS version installed, is overpriced for the value it offers.  And yet you didn’t say that about the flagship that you claim people opt for when they realize the outgoing model is somehow overpriced at $100 less than when it was a flagship.  Muddy thinking.
    netmageAlex1N
  • Reply 50 of 105
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei. 

    "Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"

    That's just fantasy. 

    Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%, 
    Fantasy? Keep laughing!

    https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/06/huawei-p20-pro-wins-best-smartphone-of-2018-award-by-eha.html

    Now, that's just from 100 tech writers.

    If you need more Google is your friend.
    You really need to go a bit deeper;

    From inside your link, androidheadlines review;

    "Huawei has created two incredibly compelling packages in the P20 and P20 Pro, both of which offer very similar experiences at very different price points. The P20 is a slightly smaller package but still just as capable in almost every regard when compared to the P20 Pro, delivering fantastic cameras, lightning fast speeds, tons of awesome features and a gorgeous design with some truly unique colors. An extra €150 brings about a slightly larger screen, consistently higher quality photos, extra zoom levels for the camera, an IR blaster and actual water and dust resistance that you can count on, as well as a larger battery too. While it’s certainly worth the upgrade for the Pro, €899 is a price-point that’s well out of many folk’s reach, and ultimately make this one of the most expensive devices on the market. This is Huawei’s best devices yet, no doubt, but ultimately don’t check every single box, and while they offer a better camera in most regards than Samsung’s best, don’t deliver quite as compelling feature-sets as Samsung’s Galaxy S8 or Galaxy S9 in other areas. If you need the best smartphone camera ever, these are your phones, otherwise there are still other phones out there that offer more features for less money."

    Seems like "not so widespread an opinion after all", and more to the point, the link looked just like a copy of a spec.

    Nah.
    That is one opinion, against 100 tech writers and it's valid. Opinions are opinions and that is why I said 'widespread' (not 'all') but re-read read what you are quoting here:

    "Offer more features for less money".

    Apart from not giving even one example, the point of the best phone isn't only about features.

    And on price, there were some amazing launch offers to be had and lastly, against the iPhone X, a P20 Pro is a steal anyway and one that will be discounted as the next flagship nears.
  • Reply 51 of 105
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    The size of the X screen, NOT THE PRICE, is what held back a lot of us big screen fanboys from buying it. 
    Yup, that's what prevented me from buying it. $1000 is actually not that much for a device you will keep for several years. But these days my phone is my primary book reading device so I need a "plus" model.
    I still hear/read people saying the iPhone X has a bigger display than the iPhone Plus models. Unfortunately, very few seem to realize their error when you try to explain it.

    I'm certainly in the same boat as you and multimedia, but even then I'm not sure I'll be getting a new iPhone this year (which will mean I'll be using my iPhone 7 Plus for an unprecedented 3 years) since my Apple Watch is helping to offload a lot of what I need my iPhone to do (with my Mac also helping as I use it most of all, including sending and receiving phone calls from it on a regular basis).
    I've also got a 7+ (but not a watch). It's going to be super hard not to update to an X+ if it comes out this year!
    Alex1N
  • Reply 52 of 105
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    FWIW ATT already did an iPhone X BOGO months ago, as has Sprint. TMo did a buy one and get $700 off another. TMo also had equivalent deals for some of the latest LG's and Samsungs. Deals on even new flagships aren't at all uncommon, including Apple's top of the line. 
    Were those Apple subsidized discounts and BOGO's? 

    Almost certainly not.; just carrier discounts to pick up a few switchers.

    Betcha that Android OS device makers are quite likely to provide carrier incentives to drive share acquisition.
    Hang on...

    "Almost certainly not.; just carrier discounts to pick up a few switchers."

    When did carriers take an interest in switchers?

    Surely, carriers couldn't care less about iOS or Android. Any interest would be vendor specific not platform specific.
    djsherly
  • Reply 53 of 105
    KITAKITA Posts: 392member
    KITA said:
    corrections said:

    Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 
    Google isn't the only manufacturer of Android smartphones. They've also have never had anything close to the scale and distribution levels that Apple has had.

    It's clear though that Google isn't done with Pixel phones. More so, it looks like they're just getting started.
    So in other words the phrase ‘it’s not easy’ applied to the whole enterprise of manufacturing and selling high-end smartphones.  You can’t just cast off Apple’s entire supply/manufacturing chain as though Apple was handed that.  It’s not easy means.., it’s not easy to build that out.  

    But I agree about the pixel phone.  It sure does look like Google is just getting started.  For years and years they’ve been just getting started.  Yeah, they renamed nexus to something else and now pixel, so I guess we can say they are a smartphone upstart, right?  If only considering the pixel brand and nothing else.  Oh, how you have forsaken me, Motorola!  

    I wouldn't cast that aside, but judging the performance in a developed market is very different. You wouldn't expect the Pixel to suddenly sell like an iPhone, they're not the only Android device. If Google tried to "sell phones like Apple" (and not just make a premium device), they would have made a much larger push in distribution. Right now though, it's clear they're taking it slow.

    Nexus was nothing like Pixel. The Nexus program had vanilla Android on devices designed by other OEMs with some flagship specs. Pixel is now designed in-house for the premium segment. In terms of hardware, no one, not even Apple, had anything close to the Pixel Visual Core. That was the first time Google brought their own silicon mobile. They also made a huge push on developing the camera hardware and software with some excellent results. If you can't see the difference between the two, then you're simply not being objective.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 54 of 105
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei. 

    "Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"

    That's just fantasy. 

    Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%, 
    Fantasy? Keep laughing!

    https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/06/huawei-p20-pro-wins-best-smartphone-of-2018-award-by-eha.html

    Now, that's just from 100 tech writers.

    If you need more Google is your friend.
    Someone hates the P20Pro 

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/this-is-not-an-iphone-killer/news-story/b80d3abc5a0da755371a4ed5421f4e68
    Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.

    There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.

    You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black. 

    This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.

    He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
  • Reply 55 of 105
    racerhomie3racerhomie3 Posts: 1,264member
    Price isn't my prime factor when buying. To me it is quite simple. "How does the device fit my use case?"
    To me that means my iPhone 7 may well have to be replaced by an 8 and that's it for me with Apple.
    I wear protective headgear a lot. This is either a motorcycle crash helmet or one similar to a tree surgeon would wear.
    TouchId (remember that?) allows me to open the phone with a fingerprint. Using FaceID means that I'd have to remove the headgear. This takes time and if a lot lower down the 'Ease of use' list when compared to the older phones. Removing a glove is an order of magnitude easier than removing the helmet. Yes I could enter the passcode but that defeats the whole object of TouchID and FaceID.
    Sorry Apple, you have lost the plot here as well in many other areas especially wrt the Mac line-up.

    Goodbye
  • Reply 56 of 105
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    Price isn't my prime factor when buying. To me it is quite simple. "How does the device fit my use case?"
    To me that means my iPhone 7 may well have to be replaced by an 8 and that's it for me with Apple.
    I wear protective headgear a lot. This is either a motorcycle crash helmet or one similar to a tree surgeon would wear.
    TouchId (remember that?) allows me to open the phone with a fingerprint. Using FaceID means that I'd have to remove the headgear. This takes time and if a lot lower down the 'Ease of use' list when compared to the older phones. Removing a glove is an order of magnitude easier than removing the helmet. Yes I could enter the passcode but that defeats the whole object of TouchID and FaceID.
    Sorry Apple, you have lost the plot here as well in many other areas especially wrt the Mac line-up.

    Goodbye
    Does that mean you would rather see Apple lose users than cater to them?

    If Apple hadn't supposedly shipped low end old phones representing 20% of sales do.you really think they would have bitten the bullet and bought a more expensive phone instead?

    Apple's sales are flat even with that 20%. Without it, unit sales would be notably down and can imagine the reactions on the markets.

    It would be panic stations.
  • Reply 57 of 105
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,309member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    FWIW ATT already did an iPhone X BOGO months ago, as has Sprint. TMo did a buy one and get $700 off another. TMo also had equivalent deals for some of the latest LG's and Samsungs. Deals on even new flagships aren't at all uncommon, including Apple's top of the line. 
    Were those Apple subsidized discounts and BOGO's? 

    Almost certainly not.; just carrier discounts to pick up a few switchers.

    Betcha that Android OS device makers are quite likely to provide carrier incentives to drive share acquisition.
    Hang on...

    "Almost certainly not.; just carrier discounts to pick up a few switchers."

    When did carriers take an interest in switchers?

    Surely, carriers couldn't care less about iOS or Android. Any interest would be vendor specific not platform specific.
    "Switchers" also applies to those moving between carriers, but you may have another, better, term for it you would like me to use?

    netmage
  • Reply 58 of 105
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,309member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    You make me laugh, yet again, with your avowed love of all things Huawei. 

    "Widespread Opinion place the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018"

    That's just fantasy. 

    Apple low end devices may be 20% of unit sales overall, but likely at about half the ASP, so as a contribution to revenues, about 10%, 
    Fantasy? Keep laughing!

    https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/06/huawei-p20-pro-wins-best-smartphone-of-2018-award-by-eha.html

    Now, that's just from 100 tech writers.

    If you need more Google is your friend.
    Someone hates the P20Pro 

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/this-is-not-an-iphone-killer/news-story/b80d3abc5a0da755371a4ed5421f4e68
    Yes. And not only one I'm sure. All opinions are valid but some are not helped by issues with the individuals holding them.

    There is an inescapable reality here. The P20 Pro can take images out of the box that no iPhone can. It's a simple question of hardware. The iPhone X for example has an optical zoom of X2. It can't touch the P20 Pro.

    You only have to watch the presentations of the Mate 10 and P20 Series to see specific areas pitted against the best Samsung and Apple phones. There was one comment by the head of Huawei during the Mate 10 presentation that showed some photos from winter in Alaska. They were from the Mate 10 but the person who took them was also carrying an iPhone X. Why not compare those photos to the ones from the iPhone X? Because there were none to be had. It couldn't handle the cold and shut down. Same story with night mode on the P20 Pro. It was only compared with Samsung as the iPhone X shot was simply black. 

    This guy goes off the rails when he calls night mode a gimmick. It isn't but don't take my word for it. Plenty of people have made that observation in their own reviews, only to correct themselves once they'd seen the results and I'd bet my grandmother that Apple will have the exact same feature this September or next year.

    He also loses major credibility with his comments on Auto mode. You may not like ALL the results ALL of the time but that's normal. The processing is done to cater to preferences (and the Chinese seem to love all that oversharpened, saturated stuff) but all that is completely optional. He could have simply turned it all off with one master button. He could have shot RAW if he wanted or he could have gone into Pro Mode and done whatever he wanted. A Pro mode that I don't think the iPhone X even has out of the box.
    The inescapable reality is that the Huawei P20 Pro has issues, but yeah, great camera system. Not enough by far to make it the "iPhone Killer" that you are looking for, but nice try.

    I think that it is fine for people to have their own opinions about what is the best smartphone, but you seem to wrap the Huawei P20 Pro in quite a bit more hyperbole than the market itself sees. If is it a great as you say, they should sell lots of them, but, it won't.

    It's priced too high for the Android OS market, hence, why you yourself aren't even planning a purchase.

    edited July 2018 radarthekat
  • Reply 59 of 105
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    FWIW ATT already did an iPhone X BOGO months ago, as has Sprint. TMo did a buy one and get $700 off another. TMo also had equivalent deals for some of the latest LG's and Samsungs. Deals on even new flagships aren't at all uncommon, including Apple's top of the line. 
    Were those Apple subsidized discounts and BOGO's? 

    Almost certainly not.; just carrier discounts to pick up a few switchers.

    Betcha that Android OS device makers are quite likely to provide carrier incentives to drive share acquisition.
    Don't be so sure, here in the UK where many people buy the phones outright, the iPhone X 64gb can be found quite easily for around £750-800 brand new & unlocked compared to Apple's £999 rrp. I've also seen refurbs below £700 already on the likes of MusicMagpie. Carrier discount/deals are often not very good in comparison here, often much more expensive than the device + a sim-only deal.
  • Reply 60 of 105
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,309member
    adm1 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    avon b7 said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is pretty delusional to believe that pricing isn't an issue.   It is pretty easy to argue that Apple could have sold a lot more iphones if they didn't price the things so high.
    If you're going to participate in comments, don't just show up and throw out a shovel of ignorant, shallow garbage.

    Apple set up a range of prices and the most popular weren't oriented to price, they were targeted at new styling and features. Surely you can piece that together.

    Android offers tons of cheaper options, but those maker aren't earning any profits and will eventually go out of business just like Nokia, Motorola, HTC, HP, and all the other low end Android makers in China that have already failed. 

    It's not clear Apple could build phones much faster than it currently is. If it lowered prices to boost demand, how would it build more at a lower price? Right now, Apple can afford to spend on advanced equipment and tooling and shipping to get products to market. How does it lower prices? Why should it? It's already neck and neck with the volume leader. Production has natural limits. 

    But again, when you offer ideas, make sure they have some value beside cynical snark. And point to some company that's doing better. Google priced its phones very low and couldn't sell them. It then tried to sell phones like Apple, and couldn't sell them. It's not easy. 


    His comment didn't need to go any deeper. 

    The 8 and X series were released late last year. There are only two quarters of official results to go by and Apple doesn't break numbers down so no one knows what is really happening. That's where analysts jump in with their numbers (estimates).

    Not long ago, analysts were claiming that the low end made up a sizeable chunk of Apple unit sales. More than 20%. That's for old hardware. Not shabby at all and while they may not be the 'most' popular, they seem to be popular nevertheless. Obviously price is a factor.

    Apple's sales remain flat. They have been for a long while. That doesn't look like its changing.

    People talk about Android discounting but I keep reading about Apple promotions for 2x1 8 series phones. I haven't seen one myself, though. I haven't seen a 2x1 flagship promo for Android flagships.

    People talk about small Android handset makers going out of business. That's consolidation. It happens in every mature market. What people don't see so clearly is that there are an unthinkably large amount of those handset makers still in business!

    So where are the sales of failed business going? To other handset makers. Android handset makers!

    Last year Huawei moved into second spot in unit sales, overtaking Apple. Apple clawed that position back with its peak quarters on its annual release cycle. Last year Huawei shipped 153,000,000 units. This year, their own goal is 200,000,000 units. That is massive growth and will put them into second spot again if they realise that growth.

    Widespread opinion places the P20 Pro as the best handset of 2018 at several hundred dollars cheaper than an iPhone X.

    You say that Android handset makers aren't making any money but Huawei is selling millions of phones, making billions and producing high quality innovative products.

    Rumours point to Apple reducing prices this year. If that happens you'll have to ask yourself why.


    FWIW ATT already did an iPhone X BOGO months ago, as has Sprint. TMo did a buy one and get $700 off another. TMo also had equivalent deals for some of the latest LG's and Samsungs. Deals on even new flagships aren't at all uncommon, including Apple's top of the line. 
    Were those Apple subsidized discounts and BOGO's? 

    Almost certainly not.; just carrier discounts to pick up a few switchers.

    Betcha that Android OS device makers are quite likely to provide carrier incentives to drive share acquisition.
    Don't be so sure, here in the UK where many people buy the phones outright, the iPhone X 64gb can be found quite easily for around £750-800 brand new & unlocked compared to Apple's £999 rrp. I've also seen refurbs below £700 already on the likes of MusicMagpie. Carrier discount/deals are often not very good in comparison here, often much more expensive than the device + a sim-only deal.
    So, you seem to be implying that Apple is providing distributors a 25% discount in the UK, underselling it's own stores, or are you implying that these sellers have grey market devices obtained from other markets?
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