Microsoft's low-cost Surface Go takes aim at Apple's entry-level iPad

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 50
    danvmdanvm Posts: 600member
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    I love browsing through AI when a new product is released by a competitor. Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition when you consider that it has:
    1. Kickstand built in  
    2. Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too (although it is pricey but acceptable if you consider 1) and 2) together.
    3. SD card slot
    4. Windows hello
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 


    Hey look! Satya Nadella signed up on AI to plug his little computer with a kickstand! And it's built-in!
    Do you think that Apple Smart Keyboard does better, even though it works only in one position?
    I suppose the fact that I’ve never even considered the question before you asked it is evidence that I haven’t been somehow bothered by a lack of a multi-position kickstand on my iPad Pro. So #1 is nope. I’ve got a nice keyboard that works as a cover, (and fills the role of the kickstand), so #2 is nope. I have no need for an SD card slot. My iPad has ample built-in storage. Also, my fancy camera has an app and a WiFi interface that not only lets me save photos from the camera to my iPad, it also lets me control the camera from my iPad, so no to #3. Of course, #4 is just funny.


    1.  Are you saying that the lack of multi-position of the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is better than the multi-position kickstand integrated in the Surface Pro?
    2.  Does the nice keyboard includes a trackpad for when you use your iPad in a vertical position, which is awful from an ergonomic POV? Look what  Federighi said some time ago, "We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said. "I don't think we've looked at any of the other guys to date and said, how fast can we get there?"  Isn't that the experience the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard gives? 
    3.  I had my SP4, and after a few years, I needed more integrated storage, and just added a microSD card.  Compare that to an iPad, where I would need to replace the device.  Which one do you think it's a better option?
    4.  Do you know what Windows Hello is?  If you think it's useless, I suppose you think the same of FaceID. 

    P.S. The fact that the “Surface Go” advertises a mouse as an optional peripheral speaks volumes about the failure of Windows as a touchscreen UI. Their approach is to be a ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.”

    I suppose we can apply this to the iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.




  • Reply 42 of 50
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,233member
    Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition
    Learn what words mean before you use them.
    Kickstand built in 
    “Objectively” better than an iPad, everyone:

    Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too 
    So just like the iPad.
    SD card slot
    For what purpose?
    Windows hello
    Windows? Goodbye! That’s not even remotely a argument.
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 
    Okay, go be paid to shitpost somewhere else.
  • Reply 43 of 50
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 312member
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    I love browsing through AI when a new product is released by a competitor. Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition when you consider that it has:
    1. Kickstand built in  
    2. Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too (although it is pricey but acceptable if you consider 1) and 2) together.
    3. SD card slot
    4. Windows hello
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 


    Hey look! Satya Nadella signed up on AI to plug his little computer with a kickstand! And it's built-in!
    Do you think that Apple Smart Keyboard does better, even though it works only in one position?
    I suppose the fact that I’ve never even considered the question before you asked it is evidence that I haven’t been somehow bothered by a lack of a multi-position kickstand on my iPad Pro. So #1 is nope. I’ve got a nice keyboard that works as a cover, (and fills the role of the kickstand), so #2 is nope. I have no need for an SD card slot. My iPad has ample built-in storage. Also, my fancy camera has an app and a WiFi interface that not only lets me save photos from the camera to my iPad, it also lets me control the camera from my iPad, so no to #3. Of course, #4 is just funny.


    1.  Are you saying that the lack of multi-position of the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is better than the multi-position kickstand integrated in the Surface Pro?
    2.  Does the nice keyboard includes a trackpad for when you use your iPad in a vertical position, which is awful from an ergonomic POV? Look what  Federighi said some time ago, "We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said. "I don't think we've looked at any of the other guys to date and said, how fast can we get there?"  Isn't that the experience the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard gives? 
    3.  I had my SP4, and after a few years, I needed more integrated storage, and just added a microSD card.  Compare that to an iPad, where I would need to replace the device.  Which one do you think it's a better option?
    4.  Do you know what Windows Hello is?  If you think it's useless, I suppose you think the same of FaceID. 

    P.S. The fact that the “Surface Go” advertises a mouse as an optional peripheral speaks volumes about the failure of Windows as a touchscreen UI. Their approach is to be a ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.”

    I suppose we can apply this to the iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.




    1. I'm saying it's a moot question, because I've never felt shorted by not having a multi-position built-in kickstand. Never.
    2. An iPad is an iPad. The keyboard is a convenience for when I want to do a little more typing than I'd prefer to do on an on-screen keyboard. When I'm done typing, if I am going back to scrolling through a browser or whatever, the keyboard goes away, and I'm back to using a touchscreen tablet, running an OS meant for a touch UI. Who needs to futz around with a trackpad and mouse on a tablet? Federeghi is undoubtedly being extremely honest when saying they've never looked at a MS Surface device with envy.
    3. With an underpowered SP Go, after a few years, you'll want to replace the device not because you've run out of storage space, but because you're running a machine with an old, very weak processor, slowed to a crawl and choking on Windows bloatware.
    4. I confess. I was reading that as "Windows. Hello?" which is pretty funny.

    P.S. An iPad is a desktop replacement not for someone who wants a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid, hoping that it will do everything possible on both desktops and tablets, but all in one device. That's an MS Surface jack of All Trades, Master of None. An iPad is a desktop replacement for people who have habitually bought desktops, but don't really use them for intensive desktop activities. It's for people who really just need a great tablet that has a nice fold-out keyboard for when they want to do a little typing. That's a lot of people, and they're going to be much happier with a great tablet that also has a fold-out keyboard than they would be with a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid trying too hard to be both, and ending up being a not very good tablet and an underpowered PC, all rolled into one.
    edited July 11
  • Reply 44 of 50
    danvmdanvm Posts: 600member
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    I love browsing through AI when a new product is released by a competitor. Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition when you consider that it has:
    1. Kickstand built in  
    2. Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too (although it is pricey but acceptable if you consider 1) and 2) together.
    3. SD card slot
    4. Windows hello
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 


    Hey look! Satya Nadella signed up on AI to plug his little computer with a kickstand! And it's built-in!
    Do you think that Apple Smart Keyboard does better, even though it works only in one position?
    I suppose the fact that I’ve never even considered the question before you asked it is evidence that I haven’t been somehow bothered by a lack of a multi-position kickstand on my iPad Pro. So #1 is nope. I’ve got a nice keyboard that works as a cover, (and fills the role of the kickstand), so #2 is nope. I have no need for an SD card slot. My iPad has ample built-in storage. Also, my fancy camera has an app and a WiFi interface that not only lets me save photos from the camera to my iPad, it also lets me control the camera from my iPad, so no to #3. Of course, #4 is just funny.


    1.  Are you saying that the lack of multi-position of the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is better than the multi-position kickstand integrated in the Surface Pro?
    2.  Does the nice keyboard includes a trackpad for when you use your iPad in a vertical position, which is awful from an ergonomic POV? Look what  Federighi said some time ago, "We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said. "I don't think we've looked at any of the other guys to date and said, how fast can we get there?"  Isn't that the experience the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard gives? 
    3.  I had my SP4, and after a few years, I needed more integrated storage, and just added a microSD card.  Compare that to an iPad, where I would need to replace the device.  Which one do you think it's a better option?
    4.  Do you know what Windows Hello is?  If you think it's useless, I suppose you think the same of FaceID. 

    P.S. The fact that the “Surface Go” advertises a mouse as an optional peripheral speaks volumes about the failure of Windows as a touchscreen UI. Their approach is to be a ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.”

    I suppose we can apply this to the iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.




    1. I'm saying it's a moot question, because I've never felt shorted by not having a multi-position built-in kickstand. Never.
    2. An iPad is an iPad. The keyboard is a convenience for when I want to do a little more typing than I'd prefer to do on an on-screen keyboard. When I'm done typing, if I am going back to scrolling through a browser or whatever, the keyboard goes away, and I'm back to using a touchscreen tablet, running an OS meant for a touch UI. Who needs to futz around with a trackpad and mouse on a tablet? Federeghi is undoubtedly being extremely honest when saying they've never looked at a MS Surface device with envy.
    3. With an underpowered SP Go, after a few years, you'll want to replace the device not because you've run out of storage space, but because you're running a machine with an old, very weak processor, slowed to a crawl and choking on Windows bloatware.
    4. I confess. I was reading that as "Windows. Hello?" which is pretty funny.

    1.  I don't think it's a moot question, but a logical one.  Don't you see the benefits of adjusting the vertical angle in a notebook?  Why would it be different from a tablet in a vertical position?
    2.  When you do work in an iPad with a keyboard, you have to do it in the exact way the Federeghi criticize (and Steve Jobs too many years ago).  If it's bad in a notebook because ergonomics, it's bad to with an iPad in vertical position too.  He was very specific it was related to ergonomics with a touchscreen in a vertical position, like the iPad Pro and Smart Keyboard.  What he said about looking at the other guys has no relation to the ergonomic issues he mentioned. 
    3.  I have a lot of customer running Windows 10 in +5 years PC's, without slowdown or bloatware.  And the processor included in the Surface Go even though is slower compared to modern CPU's, is faster and more efficient than CPU's from +5 years ago.  So I don't think it will choke running light applications, or even MS Office.  BTW, you still haven't answer my question, which one do you think does better managing additional storage, the iPad with it's fixed storage or the Surface, that allows you to add microSD cards?
    4.  Yes, I noticed the original post had "hello" in lower-caps.  Now Windows Hello is clarified, do you think it's an advantage that the Surface Pro / Go have over iPads?
    P.S. An iPad is a desktop replacement not for someone who wants a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid, hoping that it will do everything possible on both desktops and tablets, but all in one device. That's an MS Surface jack of All Trades, Master of None. An iPad is a desktop replacement for people who have habitually bought desktops, but don't really use them for intensive desktop activities. It's for people who really just need a great tablet that has a nice fold-out keyboard for when they want to do a little typing. That's a lot of people, and they're going to be much happier with a great tablet that also has a fold-out keyboard than they would be with a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid trying too hard to be both, and ending up being a not very good tablet and an underpowered PC, all rolled into one.
    I find interesting that last year the Surface Pro (jack of All Trades, Master of None / mutant desktop/tablet hybrid), customer satisfaction was higher compared to iPad's.  Have you consider that maybe the Surface isn't as bad as you said?

    The iPad is an excellent device, but it's obvious that is not perfect and there are many thing where a Surface Pro is better than an iPad and vice versa.  And like you said, there are people that need great tablets, but there are others that need an excellent 2-1 / hybrid device, and that's were the Surface line shines. 


  • Reply 45 of 50
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 312member
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    I love browsing through AI when a new product is released by a competitor. Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition when you consider that it has:
    1. Kickstand built in  
    2. Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too (although it is pricey but acceptable if you consider 1) and 2) together.
    3. SD card slot
    4. Windows hello
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 


    Hey look! Satya Nadella signed up on AI to plug his little computer with a kickstand! And it's built-in!
    Do you think that Apple Smart Keyboard does better, even though it works only in one position?
    I suppose the fact that I’ve never even considered the question before you asked it is evidence that I haven’t been somehow bothered by a lack of a multi-position kickstand on my iPad Pro. So #1 is nope. I’ve got a nice keyboard that works as a cover, (and fills the role of the kickstand), so #2 is nope. I have no need for an SD card slot. My iPad has ample built-in storage. Also, my fancy camera has an app and a WiFi interface that not only lets me save photos from the camera to my iPad, it also lets me control the camera from my iPad, so no to #3. Of course, #4 is just funny.


    1.  Are you saying that the lack of multi-position of the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is better than the multi-position kickstand integrated in the Surface Pro?
    2.  Does the nice keyboard includes a trackpad for when you use your iPad in a vertical position, which is awful from an ergonomic POV? Look what  Federighi said some time ago, "We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said. "I don't think we've looked at any of the other guys to date and said, how fast can we get there?"  Isn't that the experience the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard gives? 
    3.  I had my SP4, and after a few years, I needed more integrated storage, and just added a microSD card.  Compare that to an iPad, where I would need to replace the device.  Which one do you think it's a better option?
    4.  Do you know what Windows Hello is?  If you think it's useless, I suppose you think the same of FaceID. 

    P.S. The fact that the “Surface Go” advertises a mouse as an optional peripheral speaks volumes about the failure of Windows as a touchscreen UI. Their approach is to be a ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.”

    I suppose we can apply this to the iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.




    1. I'm saying it's a moot question, because I've never felt shorted by not having a multi-position built-in kickstand. Never.
    2. An iPad is an iPad. The keyboard is a convenience for when I want to do a little more typing than I'd prefer to do on an on-screen keyboard. When I'm done typing, if I am going back to scrolling through a browser or whatever, the keyboard goes away, and I'm back to using a touchscreen tablet, running an OS meant for a touch UI. Who needs to futz around with a trackpad and mouse on a tablet? Federeghi is undoubtedly being extremely honest when saying they've never looked at a MS Surface device with envy.
    3. With an underpowered SP Go, after a few years, you'll want to replace the device not because you've run out of storage space, but because you're running a machine with an old, very weak processor, slowed to a crawl and choking on Windows bloatware.
    4. I confess. I was reading that as "Windows. Hello?" which is pretty funny.

    1.  I don't think it's a moot question, but a logical one.  Don't you see the benefits of adjusting the vertical angle in a notebook?  Why would it be different from a tablet in a vertical position?
    2.  When you do work in an iPad with a keyboard, you have to do it in the exact way the Federeghi criticize (and Steve Jobs too many years ago).  If it's bad in a notebook because ergonomics, it's bad to with an iPad in vertical position too.  He was very specific it was related to ergonomics with a touchscreen in a vertical position, like the iPad Pro and Smart Keyboard.  What he said about looking at the other guys has no relation to the ergonomic issues he mentioned. 
    3.  I have a lot of customer running Windows 10 in +5 years PC's, without slowdown or bloatware.  And the processor included in the Surface Go even though is slower compared to modern CPU's, is faster and more efficient than CPU's from +5 years ago.  So I don't think it will choke running light applications, or even MS Office.  BTW, you still haven't answer my question, which one do you think does better managing additional storage, the iPad with it's fixed storage or the Surface, that allows you to add microSD cards?
    4.  Yes, I noticed the original post had "hello" in lower-caps.  Now Windows Hello is clarified, do you think it's an advantage that the Surface Pro / Go have over iPads?
    P.S. An iPad is a desktop replacement not for someone who wants a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid, hoping that it will do everything possible on both desktops and tablets, but all in one device. That's an MS Surface jack of All Trades, Master of None. An iPad is a desktop replacement for people who have habitually bought desktops, but don't really use them for intensive desktop activities. It's for people who really just need a great tablet that has a nice fold-out keyboard for when they want to do a little typing. That's a lot of people, and they're going to be much happier with a great tablet that also has a fold-out keyboard than they would be with a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid trying too hard to be both, and ending up being a not very good tablet and an underpowered PC, all rolled into one.
    I find interesting that last year the Surface Pro (jack of All Trades, Master of None / mutant desktop/tablet hybrid), customer satisfaction was higher compared to iPad's.  Have you consider that maybe the Surface isn't as bad as you said?

    The iPad is an excellent device, but it's obvious that is not perfect and there are many thing where a Surface Pro is better than an iPad and vice versa.  And like you said, there are people that need great tablets, but there are others that need an excellent 2-1 / hybrid device, and that's were the Surface line shines. 


    You asked some questions which I answered. But thank for the MS Surface ad. I still don’t want one. Sorry. 
  • Reply 46 of 50
    danvmdanvm Posts: 600member
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    I love browsing through AI when a new product is released by a competitor. Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition when you consider that it has:
    1. Kickstand built in  
    2. Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too (although it is pricey but acceptable if you consider 1) and 2) together.
    3. SD card slot
    4. Windows hello
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 


    Hey look! Satya Nadella signed up on AI to plug his little computer with a kickstand! And it's built-in!
    Do you think that Apple Smart Keyboard does better, even though it works only in one position?
    I suppose the fact that I’ve never even considered the question before you asked it is evidence that I haven’t been somehow bothered by a lack of a multi-position kickstand on my iPad Pro. So #1 is nope. I’ve got a nice keyboard that works as a cover, (and fills the role of the kickstand), so #2 is nope. I have no need for an SD card slot. My iPad has ample built-in storage. Also, my fancy camera has an app and a WiFi interface that not only lets me save photos from the camera to my iPad, it also lets me control the camera from my iPad, so no to #3. Of course, #4 is just funny.


    1.  Are you saying that the lack of multi-position of the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is better than the multi-position kickstand integrated in the Surface Pro?
    2.  Does the nice keyboard includes a trackpad for when you use your iPad in a vertical position, which is awful from an ergonomic POV? Look what  Federighi said some time ago, "We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said. "I don't think we've looked at any of the other guys to date and said, how fast can we get there?"  Isn't that the experience the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard gives? 
    3.  I had my SP4, and after a few years, I needed more integrated storage, and just added a microSD card.  Compare that to an iPad, where I would need to replace the device.  Which one do you think it's a better option?
    4.  Do you know what Windows Hello is?  If you think it's useless, I suppose you think the same of FaceID. 

    P.S. The fact that the “Surface Go” advertises a mouse as an optional peripheral speaks volumes about the failure of Windows as a touchscreen UI. Their approach is to be a ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.”

    I suppose we can apply this to the iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.




    1. I'm saying it's a moot question, because I've never felt shorted by not having a multi-position built-in kickstand. Never.
    2. An iPad is an iPad. The keyboard is a convenience for when I want to do a little more typing than I'd prefer to do on an on-screen keyboard. When I'm done typing, if I am going back to scrolling through a browser or whatever, the keyboard goes away, and I'm back to using a touchscreen tablet, running an OS meant for a touch UI. Who needs to futz around with a trackpad and mouse on a tablet? Federeghi is undoubtedly being extremely honest when saying they've never looked at a MS Surface device with envy.
    3. With an underpowered SP Go, after a few years, you'll want to replace the device not because you've run out of storage space, but because you're running a machine with an old, very weak processor, slowed to a crawl and choking on Windows bloatware.
    4. I confess. I was reading that as "Windows. Hello?" which is pretty funny.

    1.  I don't think it's a moot question, but a logical one.  Don't you see the benefits of adjusting the vertical angle in a notebook?  Why would it be different from a tablet in a vertical position?
    2.  When you do work in an iPad with a keyboard, you have to do it in the exact way the Federeghi criticize (and Steve Jobs too many years ago).  If it's bad in a notebook because ergonomics, it's bad to with an iPad in vertical position too.  He was very specific it was related to ergonomics with a touchscreen in a vertical position, like the iPad Pro and Smart Keyboard.  What he said about looking at the other guys has no relation to the ergonomic issues he mentioned. 
    3.  I have a lot of customer running Windows 10 in +5 years PC's, without slowdown or bloatware.  And the processor included in the Surface Go even though is slower compared to modern CPU's, is faster and more efficient than CPU's from +5 years ago.  So I don't think it will choke running light applications, or even MS Office.  BTW, you still haven't answer my question, which one do you think does better managing additional storage, the iPad with it's fixed storage or the Surface, that allows you to add microSD cards?
    4.  Yes, I noticed the original post had "hello" in lower-caps.  Now Windows Hello is clarified, do you think it's an advantage that the Surface Pro / Go have over iPads?
    P.S. An iPad is a desktop replacement not for someone who wants a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid, hoping that it will do everything possible on both desktops and tablets, but all in one device. That's an MS Surface jack of All Trades, Master of None. An iPad is a desktop replacement for people who have habitually bought desktops, but don't really use them for intensive desktop activities. It's for people who really just need a great tablet that has a nice fold-out keyboard for when they want to do a little typing. That's a lot of people, and they're going to be much happier with a great tablet that also has a fold-out keyboard than they would be with a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid trying too hard to be both, and ending up being a not very good tablet and an underpowered PC, all rolled into one.
    I find interesting that last year the Surface Pro (jack of All Trades, Master of None / mutant desktop/tablet hybrid), customer satisfaction was higher compared to iPad's.  Have you consider that maybe the Surface isn't as bad as you said?

    The iPad is an excellent device, but it's obvious that is not perfect and there are many thing where a Surface Pro is better than an iPad and vice versa.  And like you said, there are people that need great tablets, but there are others that need an excellent 2-1 / hybrid device, and that's were the Surface line shines. 


    You asked some questions which I answered.
    And some other questions went unanswered. 
    But thank for the MS Surface ad. I still don’t want one. Sorry.

    I don't see my post as an ad.  I just gave an opinion based in my experience with my own devices, and Surface Pro and an iPad.  But for some reason, it's hard for you to see some simple areas where the Surface Pro is better designed compared to an iPad.


  • Reply 47 of 50
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 312member
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    I love browsing through AI when a new product is released by a competitor. Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition when you consider that it has:
    1. Kickstand built in  
    2. Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too (although it is pricey but acceptable if you consider 1) and 2) together.
    3. SD card slot
    4. Windows hello
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 


    Hey look! Satya Nadella signed up on AI to plug his little computer with a kickstand! And it's built-in!
    Do you think that Apple Smart Keyboard does better, even though it works only in one position?
    I suppose the fact that I’ve never even considered the question before you asked it is evidence that I haven’t been somehow bothered by a lack of a multi-position kickstand on my iPad Pro. So #1 is nope. I’ve got a nice keyboard that works as a cover, (and fills the role of the kickstand), so #2 is nope. I have no need for an SD card slot. My iPad has ample built-in storage. Also, my fancy camera has an app and a WiFi interface that not only lets me save photos from the camera to my iPad, it also lets me control the camera from my iPad, so no to #3. Of course, #4 is just funny.


    1.  Are you saying that the lack of multi-position of the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is better than the multi-position kickstand integrated in the Surface Pro?
    2.  Does the nice keyboard includes a trackpad for when you use your iPad in a vertical position, which is awful from an ergonomic POV? Look what  Federighi said some time ago, "We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said. "I don't think we've looked at any of the other guys to date and said, how fast can we get there?"  Isn't that the experience the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard gives? 
    3.  I had my SP4, and after a few years, I needed more integrated storage, and just added a microSD card.  Compare that to an iPad, where I would need to replace the device.  Which one do you think it's a better option?
    4.  Do you know what Windows Hello is?  If you think it's useless, I suppose you think the same of FaceID. 

    P.S. The fact that the “Surface Go” advertises a mouse as an optional peripheral speaks volumes about the failure of Windows as a touchscreen UI. Their approach is to be a ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.”

    I suppose we can apply this to the iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.




    1. I'm saying it's a moot question, because I've never felt shorted by not having a multi-position built-in kickstand. Never.
    2. An iPad is an iPad. The keyboard is a convenience for when I want to do a little more typing than I'd prefer to do on an on-screen keyboard. When I'm done typing, if I am going back to scrolling through a browser or whatever, the keyboard goes away, and I'm back to using a touchscreen tablet, running an OS meant for a touch UI. Who needs to futz around with a trackpad and mouse on a tablet? Federeghi is undoubtedly being extremely honest when saying they've never looked at a MS Surface device with envy.
    3. With an underpowered SP Go, after a few years, you'll want to replace the device not because you've run out of storage space, but because you're running a machine with an old, very weak processor, slowed to a crawl and choking on Windows bloatware.
    4. I confess. I was reading that as "Windows. Hello?" which is pretty funny.

    1.  I don't think it's a moot question, but a logical one.  Don't you see the benefits of adjusting the vertical angle in a notebook?  Why would it be different from a tablet in a vertical position?
    2.  When you do work in an iPad with a keyboard, you have to do it in the exact way the Federeghi criticize (and Steve Jobs too many years ago).  If it's bad in a notebook because ergonomics, it's bad to with an iPad in vertical position too.  He was very specific it was related to ergonomics with a touchscreen in a vertical position, like the iPad Pro and Smart Keyboard.  What he said about looking at the other guys has no relation to the ergonomic issues he mentioned. 
    3.  I have a lot of customer running Windows 10 in +5 years PC's, without slowdown or bloatware.  And the processor included in the Surface Go even though is slower compared to modern CPU's, is faster and more efficient than CPU's from +5 years ago.  So I don't think it will choke running light applications, or even MS Office.  BTW, you still haven't answer my question, which one do you think does better managing additional storage, the iPad with it's fixed storage or the Surface, that allows you to add microSD cards?
    4.  Yes, I noticed the original post had "hello" in lower-caps.  Now Windows Hello is clarified, do you think it's an advantage that the Surface Pro / Go have over iPads?
    P.S. An iPad is a desktop replacement not for someone who wants a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid, hoping that it will do everything possible on both desktops and tablets, but all in one device. That's an MS Surface jack of All Trades, Master of None. An iPad is a desktop replacement for people who have habitually bought desktops, but don't really use them for intensive desktop activities. It's for people who really just need a great tablet that has a nice fold-out keyboard for when they want to do a little typing. That's a lot of people, and they're going to be much happier with a great tablet that also has a fold-out keyboard than they would be with a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid trying too hard to be both, and ending up being a not very good tablet and an underpowered PC, all rolled into one.
    I find interesting that last year the Surface Pro (jack of All Trades, Master of None / mutant desktop/tablet hybrid), customer satisfaction was higher compared to iPad's.  Have you consider that maybe the Surface isn't as bad as you said?

    The iPad is an excellent device, but it's obvious that is not perfect and there are many thing where a Surface Pro is better than an iPad and vice versa.  And like you said, there are people that need great tablets, but there are others that need an excellent 2-1 / hybrid device, and that's were the Surface line shines. 


    You asked some questions which I answered.
    And some other questions went unanswered. 
    But thank for the MS Surface ad. I still don’t want one. Sorry.

    I don't see my post as an ad.  I just gave an opinion based in my experience with my own devices, and Surface Pro and an iPad.  But for some reason, it's hard for you to see some simple areas where the Surface Pro is better designed compared to an iPad.


    Right. Adjustable kickstands. Got it. I'm sure Apple will get right on that.
  • Reply 48 of 50
    danvmdanvm Posts: 600member
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    I love browsing through AI when a new product is released by a competitor. Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition when you consider that it has:
    1. Kickstand built in  
    2. Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too (although it is pricey but acceptable if you consider 1) and 2) together.
    3. SD card slot
    4. Windows hello
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 


    Hey look! Satya Nadella signed up on AI to plug his little computer with a kickstand! And it's built-in!
    Do you think that Apple Smart Keyboard does better, even though it works only in one position?
    I suppose the fact that I’ve never even considered the question before you asked it is evidence that I haven’t been somehow bothered by a lack of a multi-position kickstand on my iPad Pro. So #1 is nope. I’ve got a nice keyboard that works as a cover, (and fills the role of the kickstand), so #2 is nope. I have no need for an SD card slot. My iPad has ample built-in storage. Also, my fancy camera has an app and a WiFi interface that not only lets me save photos from the camera to my iPad, it also lets me control the camera from my iPad, so no to #3. Of course, #4 is just funny.


    1.  Are you saying that the lack of multi-position of the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is better than the multi-position kickstand integrated in the Surface Pro?
    2.  Does the nice keyboard includes a trackpad for when you use your iPad in a vertical position, which is awful from an ergonomic POV? Look what  Federighi said some time ago, "We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said. "I don't think we've looked at any of the other guys to date and said, how fast can we get there?"  Isn't that the experience the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard gives? 
    3.  I had my SP4, and after a few years, I needed more integrated storage, and just added a microSD card.  Compare that to an iPad, where I would need to replace the device.  Which one do you think it's a better option?
    4.  Do you know what Windows Hello is?  If you think it's useless, I suppose you think the same of FaceID. 

    P.S. The fact that the “Surface Go” advertises a mouse as an optional peripheral speaks volumes about the failure of Windows as a touchscreen UI. Their approach is to be a ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.”

    I suppose we can apply this to the iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.




    1. I'm saying it's a moot question, because I've never felt shorted by not having a multi-position built-in kickstand. Never.
    2. An iPad is an iPad. The keyboard is a convenience for when I want to do a little more typing than I'd prefer to do on an on-screen keyboard. When I'm done typing, if I am going back to scrolling through a browser or whatever, the keyboard goes away, and I'm back to using a touchscreen tablet, running an OS meant for a touch UI. Who needs to futz around with a trackpad and mouse on a tablet? Federeghi is undoubtedly being extremely honest when saying they've never looked at a MS Surface device with envy.
    3. With an underpowered SP Go, after a few years, you'll want to replace the device not because you've run out of storage space, but because you're running a machine with an old, very weak processor, slowed to a crawl and choking on Windows bloatware.
    4. I confess. I was reading that as "Windows. Hello?" which is pretty funny.

    1.  I don't think it's a moot question, but a logical one.  Don't you see the benefits of adjusting the vertical angle in a notebook?  Why would it be different from a tablet in a vertical position?
    2.  When you do work in an iPad with a keyboard, you have to do it in the exact way the Federeghi criticize (and Steve Jobs too many years ago).  If it's bad in a notebook because ergonomics, it's bad to with an iPad in vertical position too.  He was very specific it was related to ergonomics with a touchscreen in a vertical position, like the iPad Pro and Smart Keyboard.  What he said about looking at the other guys has no relation to the ergonomic issues he mentioned. 
    3.  I have a lot of customer running Windows 10 in +5 years PC's, without slowdown or bloatware.  And the processor included in the Surface Go even though is slower compared to modern CPU's, is faster and more efficient than CPU's from +5 years ago.  So I don't think it will choke running light applications, or even MS Office.  BTW, you still haven't answer my question, which one do you think does better managing additional storage, the iPad with it's fixed storage or the Surface, that allows you to add microSD cards?
    4.  Yes, I noticed the original post had "hello" in lower-caps.  Now Windows Hello is clarified, do you think it's an advantage that the Surface Pro / Go have over iPads?
    P.S. An iPad is a desktop replacement not for someone who wants a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid, hoping that it will do everything possible on both desktops and tablets, but all in one device. That's an MS Surface jack of All Trades, Master of None. An iPad is a desktop replacement for people who have habitually bought desktops, but don't really use them for intensive desktop activities. It's for people who really just need a great tablet that has a nice fold-out keyboard for when they want to do a little typing. That's a lot of people, and they're going to be much happier with a great tablet that also has a fold-out keyboard than they would be with a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid trying too hard to be both, and ending up being a not very good tablet and an underpowered PC, all rolled into one.
    I find interesting that last year the Surface Pro (jack of All Trades, Master of None / mutant desktop/tablet hybrid), customer satisfaction was higher compared to iPad's.  Have you consider that maybe the Surface isn't as bad as you said?

    The iPad is an excellent device, but it's obvious that is not perfect and there are many thing where a Surface Pro is better than an iPad and vice versa.  And like you said, there are people that need great tablets, but there are others that need an excellent 2-1 / hybrid device, and that's were the Surface line shines. 


    You asked some questions which I answered.
    And some other questions went unanswered. 
    But thank for the MS Surface ad. I still don’t want one. Sorry.

    I don't see my post as an ad.  I just gave an opinion based in my experience with my own devices, and Surface Pro and an iPad.  But for some reason, it's hard for you to see some simple areas where the Surface Pro is better designed compared to an iPad.


    Right. Adjustable kickstands. Got it. I'm sure Apple will get right on that.
    I still don't understand your negative about the kickstand.  Would you like your notebook to work in a single angle?  I don't think so. Same as iPad or Surface in a vertical position.  For some reason, I think you haven't use a Surface Pro. Maybe you should try it.

    BTW, do you think Surface got it right with Windows Hello (aka FaceID) and expandable storage, or both are as "bad" as the kickstand?
  • Reply 49 of 50
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 312member
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    I love browsing through AI when a new product is released by a competitor. Objectively the Surface Go this is a great proposition when you consider that it has:
    1. Kickstand built in  
    2. Quality keyboard that acts as a cover too (although it is pricey but acceptable if you consider 1) and 2) together.
    3. SD card slot
    4. Windows hello
    MS is leading the way when it comes to product design with its Surface range. 


    Hey look! Satya Nadella signed up on AI to plug his little computer with a kickstand! And it's built-in!
    Do you think that Apple Smart Keyboard does better, even though it works only in one position?
    I suppose the fact that I’ve never even considered the question before you asked it is evidence that I haven’t been somehow bothered by a lack of a multi-position kickstand on my iPad Pro. So #1 is nope. I’ve got a nice keyboard that works as a cover, (and fills the role of the kickstand), so #2 is nope. I have no need for an SD card slot. My iPad has ample built-in storage. Also, my fancy camera has an app and a WiFi interface that not only lets me save photos from the camera to my iPad, it also lets me control the camera from my iPad, so no to #3. Of course, #4 is just funny.


    1.  Are you saying that the lack of multi-position of the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is better than the multi-position kickstand integrated in the Surface Pro?
    2.  Does the nice keyboard includes a trackpad for when you use your iPad in a vertical position, which is awful from an ergonomic POV? Look what  Federighi said some time ago, "We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said. "I don't think we've looked at any of the other guys to date and said, how fast can we get there?"  Isn't that the experience the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard gives? 
    3.  I had my SP4, and after a few years, I needed more integrated storage, and just added a microSD card.  Compare that to an iPad, where I would need to replace the device.  Which one do you think it's a better option?
    4.  Do you know what Windows Hello is?  If you think it's useless, I suppose you think the same of FaceID. 

    P.S. The fact that the “Surface Go” advertises a mouse as an optional peripheral speaks volumes about the failure of Windows as a touchscreen UI. Their approach is to be a ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.”

    I suppose we can apply this to the iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard as a desktop replacement, ‘Jack of All Trades, but Master of None.




    1. I'm saying it's a moot question, because I've never felt shorted by not having a multi-position built-in kickstand. Never.
    2. An iPad is an iPad. The keyboard is a convenience for when I want to do a little more typing than I'd prefer to do on an on-screen keyboard. When I'm done typing, if I am going back to scrolling through a browser or whatever, the keyboard goes away, and I'm back to using a touchscreen tablet, running an OS meant for a touch UI. Who needs to futz around with a trackpad and mouse on a tablet? Federeghi is undoubtedly being extremely honest when saying they've never looked at a MS Surface device with envy.
    3. With an underpowered SP Go, after a few years, you'll want to replace the device not because you've run out of storage space, but because you're running a machine with an old, very weak processor, slowed to a crawl and choking on Windows bloatware.
    4. I confess. I was reading that as "Windows. Hello?" which is pretty funny.

    1.  I don't think it's a moot question, but a logical one.  Don't you see the benefits of adjusting the vertical angle in a notebook?  Why would it be different from a tablet in a vertical position?
    2.  When you do work in an iPad with a keyboard, you have to do it in the exact way the Federeghi criticize (and Steve Jobs too many years ago).  If it's bad in a notebook because ergonomics, it's bad to with an iPad in vertical position too.  He was very specific it was related to ergonomics with a touchscreen in a vertical position, like the iPad Pro and Smart Keyboard.  What he said about looking at the other guys has no relation to the ergonomic issues he mentioned. 
    3.  I have a lot of customer running Windows 10 in +5 years PC's, without slowdown or bloatware.  And the processor included in the Surface Go even though is slower compared to modern CPU's, is faster and more efficient than CPU's from +5 years ago.  So I don't think it will choke running light applications, or even MS Office.  BTW, you still haven't answer my question, which one do you think does better managing additional storage, the iPad with it's fixed storage or the Surface, that allows you to add microSD cards?
    4.  Yes, I noticed the original post had "hello" in lower-caps.  Now Windows Hello is clarified, do you think it's an advantage that the Surface Pro / Go have over iPads?
    P.S. An iPad is a desktop replacement not for someone who wants a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid, hoping that it will do everything possible on both desktops and tablets, but all in one device. That's an MS Surface jack of All Trades, Master of None. An iPad is a desktop replacement for people who have habitually bought desktops, but don't really use them for intensive desktop activities. It's for people who really just need a great tablet that has a nice fold-out keyboard for when they want to do a little typing. That's a lot of people, and they're going to be much happier with a great tablet that also has a fold-out keyboard than they would be with a mutant desktop/tablet hybrid trying too hard to be both, and ending up being a not very good tablet and an underpowered PC, all rolled into one.
    I find interesting that last year the Surface Pro (jack of All Trades, Master of None / mutant desktop/tablet hybrid), customer satisfaction was higher compared to iPad's.  Have you consider that maybe the Surface isn't as bad as you said?

    The iPad is an excellent device, but it's obvious that is not perfect and there are many thing where a Surface Pro is better than an iPad and vice versa.  And like you said, there are people that need great tablets, but there are others that need an excellent 2-1 / hybrid device, and that's were the Surface line shines. 


    You asked some questions which I answered.
    And some other questions went unanswered. 
    But thank for the MS Surface ad. I still don’t want one. Sorry.

    I don't see my post as an ad.  I just gave an opinion based in my experience with my own devices, and Surface Pro and an iPad.  But for some reason, it's hard for you to see some simple areas where the Surface Pro is better designed compared to an iPad.


    Right. Adjustable kickstands. Got it. I'm sure Apple will get right on that.
    I still don't understand your negative about the kickstand.  Would you like your notebook to work in a single angle?  I don't think so. Same as iPad or Surface in a vertical position.  For some reason, I think you haven't use a Surface Pro. Maybe you should try it.

    BTW, do you think Surface got it right with Windows Hello (aka FaceID) and expandable storage, or both are as "bad" as the kickstand?
    So, are you paid by the hour or by the post? Either way, you’re welcome, I’ve helped you earn a little extra.
  • Reply 50 of 50
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 898member
    ireland said:
    mcdave said:
    Windows still has an abysmal selection of tablet optimized Apps, so this doesn’t look very compelling.

    And running eMMC storage?
    The buying public will be blind to this.  It will sell regardless.
    Compared to iPad, Surface is selling in small numbers still. Remember someone commenting their surprise Surface was only selling one or two million units when every third comment on MR was "apparently" in love with the product. Worst community ever over there anyway. A sea of astroturfers have taken over.
    YoY sales growth says otherwise.  Don’t get me wrong, it’s crap and this version with an A8/A9-class processor is even more crap but products don’t sell because  they are good, they sell because they are sold. This item will sell very well purely as a de facto product to school kids and the ‘Pro’ as a corporate laptop replacement.
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