Test suggests 2018 MacBook Pro can't keep up with Intel Core i9 chip's thermal demands

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  • Reply 21 of 92
    mike54mike54 Posts: 268member
    What was the ambient room temperature was this tested at? I would like to see this test done at ambient room temp of 95F (35C) rather than a cold airconditioned enviroment.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    cgWerks said:
    This doesn't surprise me too much. Doesn't the iMac Pro even do this?

    It does surprise me a bit, though, that it would be slower than the 2017. Aren't both CPUs similar in terms of thermals? The same chassis should have similar thermal handling capabilities... though MBPs have never handled heat all that well in my experience. And, at least in the past, the problems went beyond the CPU throttling down, but resulted in damage to other components.
    Like I said before, nope.  Same 14nm and two extra cores, you’d only expect it to be hotter.

    But it’s not only the MacBook Pro that throttles, most of the laptops do back in the 4th generation.
  • Reply 23 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    Now I really hope to kick Intel off the Macs.  With their own processors, softwares and design, they’re much less likely to hit any thermal barriers like Intel.  Not to mention we have to wait 3 years for their 10nm, doesn’t change their architecture and now even AMD catches up.
    edited July 18 mike54
  • Reply 24 of 92
    I'm looking forward to my new 13 inch. But I'd really love for them to focus on having the fastest computer possible in the pro lines rather than the thinnest. I"m a pretty fat person, yet I manage to be professional. I'd gladly take a laptop that's as thick as the 2011 MacBooks if it'll be faster. Bonus if they give me back expandable RAM and a removable SSD!
    Alex1Nwilliamlondon
  • Reply 25 of 92
    kienkien Posts: 1member
    dude this is a pro laptop which mean you doesn't have to use apple's own app to get good performance .On their website they even shown unoptimize app performance.so who ever wrote  this is just dumb. and also i'm pretty sure apple is not trying serve the pro market at their core. the next mac pro is modular so they don't have to update that thing  frequently  and the imacpro is just to keep us happy while they designe the mac pro. i'm not an apple hatter i love their product i'm just saying whoever wrote this should quit cuz i think u are dumb and just another mindless apple sheep
    williamlondon
  • Reply 26 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    kien said:
    dude this is a pro laptop which mean you doesn't have to use apple's own app to get good performance .On their website they even shown unoptimize app performance.so who ever wrote  this is just dumb. and also i'm pretty sure apple is not trying serve the pro market at their core. the next mac pro is modular so they don't have to update that thing  frequently  and the imacpro is just to keep us happy while they designe the mac pro. i'm not an apple hatter i love their product i'm just saying whoever wrote this should quit cuz i think u are dumb and just another mindless apple sheep
    Duh duh duh...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    I'm looking forward to my new 13 inch. But I'd really love for them to focus on having the fastest computer possible in the pro lines rather than the thinnest. I"m a pretty fat person, yet I manage to be professional. I'd gladly take a laptop that's as thick as the 2011 MacBooks if it'll be faster. Bonus if they give me back expandable RAM and a removable SSD!
    Even Unibodys doesn’t stop i7 from throttling.
  • Reply 28 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    The problem about the core i9 is they’re not designed for regular laptops, but gaming systems that’s over 40mm in thickness.  And lots of heatpipe just to keep it cool.  None of the i9 laptops that’s less than 30mm I’ve seen can keep up with it’s designed frequency.

    Right along I knew the 8th gen Core are only meant to be a “transition” solution.  They can’t bring the true 10nm on the market, but everyone are tired of quad-cores.  Obviously it’s going to be much hotter, but guess what, nobody have the patience!
    edited July 18 watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    Intel these years are just your typical huge monolithic corporations that hard to make any right decision.  Not only Apple, but also rest of the ARM, their long-time competitor AMD, all makes a huge leaps (Do I have to mention that Ryzens are much more power-efficient despite having two more cores?).  If only AMD makes high performancr mobile processors, it will still be much cooler. 
    edited July 18
  • Reply 30 of 92
    macmojomacmojo Posts: 6member
    jdw said:
    I could have told you that, even before Mr. Lee's findings....
    The tests done by this Youtuber don't prove much. Adobe is known for not optimising for the Mac, meaning it simply ports its Windows code across using cross-platform frameworks to speed up the job. This makes it very inefficient. It may not use many threads as a result and the frameworks may be so slow they cause the processor to stall at times (hence the disparity between Windows and macOS). 

    I use the 2017 15" MBP (i7-7820HQ, Radeon 560Pro, 512GB SSD). I use it for both work and home running VMWare Fusion Pro with RHEL 7.x Linux and Windows 10 VMs (simultaneously) as well as Xcode (albeit only for script and HTML) and the usual half dozen other assorted apps (Word, Mail, Safari, Firefox, MS Lync etc). It never throttles. Sure, the fans spool up when under load, but still runs to spec.

    Finally, anonymous nobodies on YouTube have a vested interest in increasing traffic to their channel and so are prepared to do what's necessary to achieve that end. Slagging off Apple (for any reason), is guaranteed click-bait. I would wait for a testing done by more legit sites like Ars Technica or Annandtech using proper scientific methodology before I draw a conclusion on the current gen. I find it hard to believe Apple didn't thoroughly test the design under load before release.
    watto_cobraAlex1Ncharlesgres
  • Reply 31 of 92
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,461member
    jdw said:
    Those of you who share my passion about the Mac and its improvement should consider sending feedback to Apple here:

    https://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

    Here is a single paragraph condensed version of my previous post that perfectly fits the character limit of Apple's feedback form, which I actually just submitted to Apple only moments ago:

    Thinness leads to thermal throttling. Stop thinning the MBP. The 2015 MBP is about the thickness-limit for reasonable cooling and a big battery. Use only high quality thermal paste. The MBP must be Pro in terms of cooling, thermal performance, battery size, USB-C&A, an internal SD card slot, and thick enough for a keyboard with sufficient key travel to (a) satisfy pretty much all users and (b) to avoid harm by dust under the keys. Keys should be removable like the 2015 MBP. These key considerations need to be made more serious by Apple engineers. Vanquish ports and use a butterfly keyboard on the MacBook, but put the beefy stuff and good keyboard in the MacBook Pro. Make the MacBook Air a hybrid of the two, yielding 3 product lines that can please every Mac notebook buyer. Thank you.

    Feel free to copy, tweak and paste it into your own feedback submission.  Do it even if you think "it won't happen."  I didn't think anything would happen some years back when I wrote to Tim Cook's email about my 2009 iMac's video card dying only a couple weeks after my AppleCare ended.  Long story short, he got his people on the ball and I was able to get a free video card swap at a local Apple store in Japan (where I currently reside).  As a result, I send feedback to Apple all the time through their official feedback form.  I'm never discouraged by the fact they continue to ignore my suggestions.  At some point something very bad will happen and they will start to Think Different once again.  Optimism allows you to make your own dent in this universe.  Don't hold back!
     Thanks, but you know what? I don't think I'll bother.

    This result doesn't come as any surprise to me as this is precisely what I would expect to happen when Apple gave you exactly what you asked for. You asked for faster processors, you asked for more memory. Apple delivered. You'd have to be pretty foolish to believe that this could be delivered without a cost, which is what they were trying to avoid by sticking with chips and memory that ran better inside a laptop. 

    Seems to me that Apple is being its usual conservative self by throttling back the processor to protect the components from too much heat (and I'm talking about the FCPX test, not the Adobe Premiere test which is a bit like running a Windows VM on the Mac to run a single app). Perhaps what's needed is a class action so that Apple is forced to add a switch to the OS that will turn throttling off. 

    You say they should make the case bigger; well, fair enough, but what you don't know is how much bigger they will have to make the case, how much larger they will need to make the fans to move the air round the case, and how much extra this will cost in terms of battery drain to make a difference. You also don't know how many of Apple's customers would reject a laptop that wasn't as svelte as the one they're used to. One thing you definitely don't know is as much about cooling components as Apple does. I've had laptops with much larger cases (Dells and an Asus) and much bigger fans; I've burned through three of them; in the same seven years that  my old MacBook Pro has kept going while only being restarted for updates and holidays.

    You say then Apple should make a laptop just for us 'professionals' with a profusion of SCSI ports, a case as large as a tank and a keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth. But making a laptop for a small group of people would make for a very expensive laptop, which Apple knows you will immediately find some excuse not to buy, because you really want it for nothing. So that's probably not going to happen.

    Intel is stuck. I'm not sure why, but things are not going well. What I would rather Apple focus on is getting shot of Intel one way or another, and I don't want to see them bogged down trying to keep a vocal minority happy who are probably not going to buy the laptop anyway.

    As for your little campaign …

    Well, I live in the UK, so I've learned to pay no attention to campaigns when the people starting them don't really see the big picture of what's at stake.


    edited July 18 watto_cobratmaywilliamlondoncharlesgres
  • Reply 32 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    Rayz2016 said:
    jdw said:
    Those of you who share my passion about the Mac and its improvement should consider sending feedback to Apple here:

    https://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

    Here is a single paragraph condensed version of my previous post that perfectly fits the character limit of Apple's feedback form, which I actually just submitted to Apple only moments ago:

    Thinness leads to thermal throttling. Stop thinning the MBP. The 2015 MBP is about the thickness-limit for reasonable cooling and a big battery. Use only high quality thermal paste. The MBP must be Pro in terms of cooling, thermal performance, battery size, USB-C&A, an internal SD card slot, and thick enough for a keyboard with sufficient key travel to (a) satisfy pretty much all users and (b) to avoid harm by dust under the keys. Keys should be removable like the 2015 MBP. These key considerations need to be made more serious by Apple engineers. Vanquish ports and use a butterfly keyboard on the MacBook, but put the beefy stuff and good keyboard in the MacBook Pro. Make the MacBook Air a hybrid of the two, yielding 3 product lines that can please every Mac notebook buyer. Thank you.

    Feel free to copy, tweak and paste it into your own feedback submission.  Do it even if you think "it won't happen."  I didn't think anything would happen some years back when I wrote to Tim Cook's email about my 2009 iMac's video card dying only a couple weeks after my AppleCare ended.  Long story short, he got his people on the ball and I was able to get a free video card swap at a local Apple store in Japan (where I currently reside).  As a result, I send feedback to Apple all the time through their official feedback form.  I'm never discouraged by the fact they continue to ignore my suggestions.  At some point something very bad will happen and they will start to Think Different once again.  Optimism allows you to make your own dent in this universe.  Don't hold back!
     Thanks, but you know what? I don't think I'll bother.

    This result doesn't come as any surprise to me as this is precisely what I would expect to happen when Apple gave you exactly what you asked for. You asked for faster processors, you asked for more memory. Apple delivered. You'd have to be pretty foolish to believe that this could be delivered without a cost, which is what they were trying to avoid by sticking with chips and memory that ran better inside a laptop. 

    Seems to me that Apple is being its usual conservative self by throttling back the processor to protect the components from too much heat. Perhaps what's needed is a class action so that Apple is forced to add a switch to the OS that will turn throttling off. 

    You say they should make the case bigger; well, fair enough, but what you don't know is how much bigger they will have to make the case, how much larger they will need to make the fans to move the air round the case, and how much extra this will cost in terms of battery drain to make a difference. You also don't know how many of Apple's customers would reject a laptop that wasn't as svelte as the one they're used to. One thing you definitely don't know is as much about cooling components as Apple does. I've had laptops with much larger cases (Dells and an Asus) and much bigger fans; I've burned through three of them; in the same seven years that  my old MacBook Pro has kept going while only being restarted for updates and holidays.

    You say then Apple should make a laptop just for us 'professionals' with a profusion of SCSI ports, a case as large as a tank and a keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth. But making a laptop for a small group of people would make for a very expensive laptop, which Apple knows you will immediately find some excuse not to buy, because you really want it for nothing. So that's probably not going to happen.

    Intel is stuck. I'm not sure why, but things are not going well. What I would rather Apple focus on is getting shot of Intel one way or another, and I don't want to see them bogged down trying to keep a vocal minority happy who are probably not going to buy the laptop anyway.

    As for your little campaign …

    Well, I live in the UK, so I've learned to pay no attention to campaigns when the people starting them don't really see the big picture of what's at stake.


    Right before Intel releases the new Coffee Lake, laptop communities are worried about the thermal design.
  • Reply 33 of 92
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Dave Lee is good value. He goes to great pains to be objective. I watch a lot of YouTube tech channels but he and Lisa Gade are the only two that would effect my buying decisions. 

    And note he doesn't just talk about thinness but about the cooling solution in general, because its possible to have better cooling solutions in a device this size by using things like vapor chambers.

    Apple said that where they went wrong with the 2013 Mac Pro design was that they thought the future was going to be pairs of smaller GPUs but it turned out to be one big GPU, so they painted themselves in to a corner. Perhaps something similar has happened with the MacBook Pro. Apple thought it was going to be 4 cores for quite a while longer, but Intel had to change their roadmap in response to AMDs moves, and now Apple is painted in to a corner again with a laptop only ever intended for 4 cores.
    watto_cobrajdwAlex1Ngatorguy
  • Reply 34 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    ascii said:
    Dave Lee is good value. He goes to great pains to be objective. I watch a lot of YouTube tech channels but he and Lisa Gade are the only two that would effect my buying decisions. 

    And note he doesn't just talk about thinness but about the cooling solution in general, because its possible to have better cooling solutions in a device this size by using things like vapor chambers.

    Apple said that where they went wrong with the 2013 Mac Pro design was that they thought the future was going to be pairs of smaller GPUs but it turned out to be one big GPU, so they painted themselves in to a corner. Perhaps something similar has happened with the MacBook Pro. Apple thought it was going to be 4 cores for quite a while longer, but Intel had to change their roadmap in response to AMDs moves, and now Apple is painted in to a corner again with a laptop only ever intended for 4 cores.
    Objective……
    Vapor chamber?  Are you talking about Razer Blade?  Go checkout what notebookcheck says.  Please don’t give any hope to the 8th-gen cores, they’re going to be horrible at thermals.
    watto_cobratmay
  • Reply 35 of 92
    If it's a Jony Ive design, then I'm sure it will end up thermal throttling long before some other companies' design. Jony Ive's quest for thinness will always hamper cooling. I'm being sarcastic but I'm willing to bet I'm right. I've also heard of Apple being cheap and careless when it comes to the application of thermal paste. So sad. Apple has the power to do things right but seems to be getting lazy and that's just so unfair to loyal Apple product users. If I'm wrong, then I truly apologize but it just seems that's how things are at Apple. There's no point in Apple using high-performance components if they can't fully take advantage of them.
    jdwwilliamlondon
  • Reply 36 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    If it's a Jony Ive design, then I'm sure it will end up thermal throttling long before some other companies' design. Jony Ive's quest for thinness will always hamper cooling. I'm being sarcastic but I'm willing to bet I'm right. I've also heard of Apple being cheap and careless when it comes to the application of thermal paste. So sad. Apple has the power to do things right but seems to be getting lazy and that's just so unfair to loyal Apple product users. If I'm wrong, then I truly apologize but it just seems that's how things are at Apple. There's no point in Apple using high-performance components if they can't fully take advantage of them.
    Hey, even back in 2010~2011, we’ve already see thermal throttling happens.
  • Reply 37 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    If all of you trying to blame all that to Apple and not Intel, you’re an idiot.

    Go do a research if you will, and see how many laptops today with an i9 that’s less than 30mm thick haven’t encountered with throttling.  It’s just that bad, and not a single solution can promise to keep the maximum turbo boots frequencies.

    I’ve seen people complained about thermal issues back in 2nd generations including all major laptops, and getting worse and worse every year.  The only thing that’s not a huge issues are gaming laptops—and, only a handful of them can!

    Basically, if you’re expecting no throttling at all with Intel inside, gaming laptops >40mm are the only choice.

    Also, please remember, that’s all you wanted.  No one wanna keep waiting for 32GiB, unexciting performance boost, and now you have it, just with a huge price.  I don’t have a problem because I’m going to skip anyway, the only interest I have is to see how are they going to address their issues.
    edited July 18 watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 92
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    DuhSesame said:
    ascii said:
    Dave Lee is good value. He goes to great pains to be objective. I watch a lot of YouTube tech channels but he and Lisa Gade are the only two that would effect my buying decisions. 

    And note he doesn't just talk about thinness but about the cooling solution in general, because its possible to have better cooling solutions in a device this size by using things like vapor chambers.

    Apple said that where they went wrong with the 2013 Mac Pro design was that they thought the future was going to be pairs of smaller GPUs but it turned out to be one big GPU, so they painted themselves in to a corner. Perhaps something similar has happened with the MacBook Pro. Apple thought it was going to be 4 cores for quite a while longer, but Intel had to change their roadmap in response to AMDs moves, and now Apple is painted in to a corner again with a laptop only ever intended for 4 cores.
    Objective……
    Vapor chamber?  Are you talking about Razer Blade?  Go checkout what notebookcheck says.  Please don’t give any hope to the 8th-gen cores, they’re going to be horrible at thermals.
    Do you mean this review? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Razer-Blade-15-i7-8750H-GTX-1070-Max-Q-FHD-Laptop-Review.305426.0.html
    Am I reading it wrong? They got it to throttle using Prime95 but it also says there was "no throttling with Gaming mode selected." If a cooling solution only causes throttling on synthetic tests but not real world that's an improvement over one that throttles on real world (such as MBP).

  • Reply 39 of 92
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 341member
    ascii said:
    DuhSesame said:
    ascii said:
    Dave Lee is good value. He goes to great pains to be objective. I watch a lot of YouTube tech channels but he and Lisa Gade are the only two that would effect my buying decisions. 

    And note he doesn't just talk about thinness but about the cooling solution in general, because its possible to have better cooling solutions in a device this size by using things like vapor chambers.

    Apple said that where they went wrong with the 2013 Mac Pro design was that they thought the future was going to be pairs of smaller GPUs but it turned out to be one big GPU, so they painted themselves in to a corner. Perhaps something similar has happened with the MacBook Pro. Apple thought it was going to be 4 cores for quite a while longer, but Intel had to change their roadmap in response to AMDs moves, and now Apple is painted in to a corner again with a laptop only ever intended for 4 cores.
    Objective……
    Vapor chamber?  Are you talking about Razer Blade?  Go checkout what notebookcheck says.  Please don’t give any hope to the 8th-gen cores, they’re going to be horrible at thermals.
    Do you mean this review? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Razer-Blade-15-i7-8750H-GTX-1070-Max-Q-FHD-Laptop-Review.305426.0.html
    Am I reading it wrong? They got it to throttle using Prime95 but it also says there was "no throttling with Gaming mode selected." If a cooling solution only causes throttling on synthetic tests but not real world that's an improvement over one that throttles on real world (such as MBP).

    Prime95 simply pushed your processor to a pretty high level, which is why they’re using it for stress test.  Do realize that games aren’t heavily optimized for multi-core CPUs, and takes way heavier load on GPU side.

    simply put, if they failed Prime95, then don’t expect it to be throttle-free.  Besides that, they are running at less than 2GHz, which is already horrible.  (Also, look at the Cinebench score and other tests as well)

    here’s the one with 1060
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Razer-Blade-15-i7-8750H-GTX-1060-Max-Q-FHD-Laptop-Review.314146.0.html

    Also, they’re testing a 8750H, which is not going to be as hot as a core i9 
    edited July 18
  • Reply 40 of 92
    ElCapitanElCapitan Posts: 112member
    Probably a better comparison would be a long Xcode compile to see how much throttling is going on for both the 2016 and 2018 models. 

    My mid 2012 MBP i7 rated at 2.3 GHz never comes above 1.9 and usually hovers at around 1.8 on Xcode builds with 99.5% CPU utilization. 
    edited July 18 cgWerks
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