Conflicting information distributed inside Apple about reason for silicone MacBook Pro key...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 30
    foljs said: Of course they have full control over the wording of tech repair documents in every country.
    If they wanted to, yes. But I don't think it's likely Apple corporate actively reviews every piece of communication from around the world. That's what you have other employees and managers for. It's like the branding system. You have corporate approved guidelines for branding, but you rely on employees at other levels to implement them correctly. Human error is always a possibility. 
  • Reply 22 of 30
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,647member
    Why is it so hard for Apple to be straight about this?

    Unfortunately, the most common reason for having a hard time being straight about something is because you’re not being up front in the first place...
    flydog said:
    nunzy said:
    This only affects a tiny percentage of MacBook.  The whole thing has just been blown up by haters.
    Not really.  A lot of Apple fans experienced problems with that generation of keyboards.  Most people consider them poorly designed... Apple sacrificed usability for aesthetics, and it seems to be a trend across product lines.

    If it was possible, I’d rather have MacOS on Dell/HP hardware (business hardware not the consumer crap).  Apple has done a great job on the iPhone & IPad and the OS in general, but they haven’t listened to their customers elsewhere.

    I do think Apple has learned some lessons in the latest generation of laptops, but they need to get their Apple branded processors in laptops and workstations ASAP.
    Guessing you have zero data substantiating that "a lot of Apple fans" that had issues with the keyboards and that "[m]ost people consider them poorly designed."
    Rayz2016 said:
    Got the numbers? Lots of people complaining on the internet doesn't really count because many of them complain more than once, and many of the don't actually own any Apple gear.

    Gleaming the true incidence of a problem from internet reports is always difficult, but the best evidence for the problem is the fact that Apple has implenmented a replacement program. If it wasn’t a problem, there would be no need for a replacement program.
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 23 of 30
    irelandireland Posts: 17,669member
    seankill said:
    ireland said:
    Why is it so hard for Apple to be straight about this?
    This is why public companies are ultimately bad for humanity. The question is, at what point in future history does humanity collectively recognise this. To me, it's plainly obvious the real reason for the membrane is for dust.
    Because governments are very well known for being honest, fair, efficient with funds , and doing what is best for the long term. Give me a break. What’s the alternative to a public company? 

    I trust Apple more than most of the governments in the world and I don’t really trust Apple right now. My ATV stopped working for no reason. Decided against my plans to upgrade my MacBook. And will forgo the iPhone this year, breaking the 2 year schedule, after a battery replacement. Time to sit out and watch. 

    I do think the keyboard is concerning but it seems to be within acceptable limits. I just prefer the older version. 
    You are arguing with yourself. I never suggested governments anything. Just that our system helps the greedy more than the needy. I don’t have an alternative. Something akin to private business with broad goals. I’m trying to look a few hundred years out. We will need a new way of doing things by then, regardless of political leanings.
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 24 of 30
    irelandireland Posts: 17,669member
    I often wish Apple was not a publicly traded company.
    This person gets it.
  • Reply 25 of 30
    irelandireland Posts: 17,669member
    If it was possible, I’d rather have MacOS on Dell/HP hardware (business hardware not the consumer crap).
    I don’t know if that’s the solution I’d go for. But I wish Apple would be more practical with their designs than they are. Thinner and looks has its limits. When iMac went thin is a good example, as I could test the speakers side by side with the fatter model, which had noticeably better sound.
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 26 of 30
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,647member
    If it was possible, I’d rather have MacOS on Dell/HP hardware (business hardware not the consumer crap).  Apple has done a great job on the iPhone & IPad and the OS in general, but they haven’t listened to their customers elsewhere.

    I’ve used plenty of crappy HP & dell hardware at work - be careful what you wish for 
  • Reply 27 of 30
    ansdguyansdguy Posts: 4unconfirmed, member
    Since the keyboad problem has struck my 12" MacBook twice now, the so called "tiny percentage" is meaningless to me. I hate this $1,299.00 mistake. This will be my last Mac and I have owned 7of them. They really screwed many of us on this machine. I would add that I don't see how every laptop with these butterfly keys doesn't have an issue. They all have te same design and mfrg. specs and that means that they are all suseptable to dust jamming of the keys.
    I think you guys need to let it go per the keyboard until something has actually been proven regarding the overall repairs for the 1st/2nd gen butterfly. If there's no actual proof of anything, then a discrepancy between local repair documentation in different countries is meaningless. For example, if Apple rolls out numbers that show the repairs were within general industry standards, then it doesn't actually matter if the silicone membrane helps with dust/crumbs or if there's a discrepancy in local tech manuals from different countries. Apple is allowed to improve their products without that being treated like suspicious behavior.
    Since I own one of those 12" MacBooks with this defective keyboard switch design, I really don't care in the least about percentages. I would also mention that the FIRST time that they replaced my top case Apple store expert informed me of the my laptops vulnerablety to having contaminants jam the keys and they print up for me their compressed air maintenance and cleaning process. I was unpleasantly surprised by this band-aid fix. That strikes me as an admission that there is a design defect. I now own my 7th Mac and I hate this one, for the first time ever. There are other issues that likely are software based, but at this point I'm fed up. $1,299.00 and mI'm stuck with this lemon. I woud suggest that those of up with the various machines with butterfly switch problems also don't care about percentages, just financial loss.
  • Reply 28 of 30
    ireland said:
    seankill said:
    ireland said:
    Why is it so hard for Apple to be straight about this?
    This is why public companies are ultimately bad for humanity. The question is, at what point in future history does humanity collectively recognise this. To me, it's plainly obvious the real reason for the membrane is for dust.
    Because governments are very well known for being honest, fair, efficient with funds , and doing what is best for the long term. Give me a break. What’s the alternative to a public company? 

    I trust Apple more than most of the governments in the world and I don’t really trust Apple right now. My ATV stopped working for no reason. Decided against my plans to upgrade my MacBook. And will forgo the iPhone this year, breaking the 2 year schedule, after a battery replacement. Time to sit out and watch. 

    I do think the keyboard is concerning but it seems to be within acceptable limits. I just prefer the older version. 
    You are arguing with yourself. I never suggested governments anything. Just that our system helps the greedy more than the needy. I don’t have an alternative. Something akin to private business with broad goals. I’m trying to look a few hundred years out. We will need a new way of doing things by then, regardless of political leanings.

    Yeah.  Publicly-traded companies struggle to please the investors buying the company and please the consumers buying the products at the same time.  Taking care of the consumers would take care of the investors' interests if there weren't so many damn market manipulators.  Minor issues get blown out of proportion because the manipulators can make a profit off of it.

    "Our redesigned keyboard wasn't as good as it could be, and we acknowledge that some users are having issues.  We're changing some things to make it better" gets blown into "Apple is doomed...(sell your shares now, so I can buy at a lower price)"

    ...

    However, it could be that they aren't totally sure about the cause of the problem, so they aren't over-promising on the membrane as being a solution.

  • Reply 29 of 30
    ansdguy said:
    I would add that I don't see how every laptop with these butterfly keys doesn't have an issue. They all have te same design and mfrg. specs and that means that they are all suseptable to dust jamming of the keys.  
    Well, they all have different users.
  • Reply 30 of 30
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,181member
    flydog said:
    nunzy said:
    This only affects a tiny percentage of MacBook.  The whole thing has just been blown up by haters.
    Not really.  A lot of Apple fans experienced problems with that generation of keyboards.  Most people consider them poorly designed... Apple sacrificed usability for aesthetics, and it seems to be a trend across product lines.

    If it was possible, I’d rather have MacOS on Dell/HP hardware (business hardware not the consumer crap).  Apple has done a great job on the iPhone & IPad and the OS in general, but they haven’t listened to their customers elsewhere.

    I do think Apple has learned some lessons in the latest generation of laptops, but they need to get their Apple branded processors in laptops and workstations ASAP.
    Guessing you have zero data substantiating that "a lot of Apple fans" that had issues with the keyboards and that "[m]ost people consider them poorly designed."
    But Apple has a warranty extension programme for every single butterfly keyboard ever made up to the 2018 design and is not detailing the cause of the problem. It has stayed silent on that, choosing instead to explain the symptoms.

    That, to my mind is data because whatever the problem is, it warranted a warranty extension. Apple is telling ALL owners of 2016/17 MBPs that They could run into a series of issues and require keyboard replacement. If they do have issues, Apple will cover them for four years by substituting their keyboards for the exact same model with the exact same potential issues but when those four years are up, they will be on their own and the repair will possibly require replacing the top casing, battery and keyboard.

    Rofigan was the first poster in this thread and his question is very valid.

    Why can't Apple just come out and explain why 2016/17 butterfly keyboards could fail at any moment?

    Do users not deserve that answer?


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