Huawei trying to beat Apple's iPhone shipments to become second-biggest smartphone company...

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.
    I don’t need a breather. All I need to do is look at your chinese knockoff’s product portfolio to see all their ripoff designs and copied design language. Who are you trying to fool?
    So, where is all that on the P20 Pro, the Mate 10, Mate RS and the Honor 10? To name just the last four flagship releases? Or does is all boil down to a notch (which Apple wasn't first with anyway and Honor has gone on record as saying it had considered four years ago). No. I get it. Just because you can't hit on Huawei you go after the entire Chinese handset market.

    Apple wasn't first with dual cameras, portrait mode, re-lighting scenes, object detection etc either.

    Apple is also behind with shell design too. Do a search for P20 Pro design. Shame you can't actually enjoy the P20 Pro in the hand.
  • Reply 42 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



  • Reply 43 of 66
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



    Turbo GT is tiling, nothing more.

    https://wccftech.com/huawei-gpu-turbo-explained/

    Apple has had that for a long time via the PowerVR GPU architecture, and more recently, via their own GPU.

    https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/graphics/architecture/

    It may be useful to add "tiling" in software to get a performance boost for lower end SOC's that don't support it in hardware, but it isn't magic, and there is undoubtedly a penalty in image quality for that performance boost.

    "All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price".

    How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything.
  • Reply 44 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



    Turbo GT is tiling, nothing more.

    https://wccftech.com/huawei-gpu-turbo-explained/

    Apple has had that for a long time via the PowerVR GPU architecture, and more recently, via their own GPU.

    https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/graphics/architecture/

    It may be useful to add "tiling" in software to get a performance boost for lower end SOC's that don't support it in hardware, but it isn't magic, and there is undoubtedly a penalty in image quality for that performance boost.

    "All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price".

    How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything.
    No one is talking about magic. Simply a GPU Turbo boost. Apparently one that puts a mid tier Kirin GPU toe to toe with an iPhone X in some areas 

    "How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything."

    I am writing this from an Honor 10, not that that is at all relevant.

    Thanks for the wccftech link btw, it is a pretty clear description of what's happening.
  • Reply 45 of 66
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



    Turbo GT is tiling, nothing more.

    https://wccftech.com/huawei-gpu-turbo-explained/

    Apple has had that for a long time via the PowerVR GPU architecture, and more recently, via their own GPU.

    https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/graphics/architecture/

    It may be useful to add "tiling" in software to get a performance boost for lower end SOC's that don't support it in hardware, but it isn't magic, and there is undoubtedly a penalty in image quality for that performance boost.

    "All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price".

    How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything.
    No one is talking about magic. Simply a GPU Turbo boost. Apparently one that puts a mid tier Kirin GPU toe to toe with an iPhone X in some areas 

    "How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything."

    I am writing this from an Honor 10, not that that is at all relevant.

    Thanks for the wccftech link btw, it is a pretty clear description of what's happening.
    Yeah, it's pretty clear that Apple has had tiling for as long as the Power VR GPU had it. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors

    and;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiled_rendering

    That actually states how it works.

    Adding tiling as a software fix to SOC's that don't have it is a kludge; there isn't a better way of putting it. Boosts the framerate but at a loss in quality. 

    Does the Kirin 970 GPU support tiling with the Mali GPU? If it does, then why would it benefit from a software patch to do something it should be doing anyway?

    You need to do better in your response to this.

    Edit;

    Your purchase of the Honor 10 was relevant. It's how you cast your vote. 

    You went with the better value in the Honor 10 over the P20 Pro. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm betting that "value" is why the P20 lite is getting the bulk of the sales over it's brethren. That's where ASP comes in for Huawei. Buyer's are opting for value over features.

    It also looks like Apple has had deferred tiling from the iPhone 4S on. 
    edited July 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 46 of 66
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



    Turbo GT is tiling, nothing more.

    https://wccftech.com/huawei-gpu-turbo-explained/

    Apple has had that for a long time via the PowerVR GPU architecture, and more recently, via their own GPU.

    https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/graphics/architecture/

    It may be useful to add "tiling" in software to get a performance boost for lower end SOC's that don't support it in hardware, but it isn't magic, and there is undoubtedly a penalty in image quality for that performance boost.

    "All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price".

    How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything.
    No one is talking about magic. Simply a GPU Turbo boost. Apparently one that puts a mid tier Kirin GPU toe to toe with an iPhone X in some areas 

    "How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything."

    I am writing this from an Honor 10, not that that is at all relevant.

    Thanks for the wccftech link btw, it is a pretty clear description of what's happening.
    Game test of four top phones; 
     


    No surprise that the iPhone X looks better, and plays smoother than all of the others. Second place went to the S9, followed by the Huawei Mate 10 Pro, and the LG V30.


  • Reply 47 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



    Turbo GT is tiling, nothing more.

    https://wccftech.com/huawei-gpu-turbo-explained/

    Apple has had that for a long time via the PowerVR GPU architecture, and more recently, via their own GPU.

    https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/graphics/architecture/

    It may be useful to add "tiling" in software to get a performance boost for lower end SOC's that don't support it in hardware, but it isn't magic, and there is undoubtedly a penalty in image quality for that performance boost.

    "All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price".

    How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything.
    No one is talking about magic. Simply a GPU Turbo boost. Apparently one that puts a mid tier Kirin GPU toe to toe with an iPhone X in some areas 

    "How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything."

    I am writing this from an Honor 10, not that that is at all relevant.

    Thanks for the wccftech link btw, it is a pretty clear description of what's happening.
    Yeah, it's pretty clear that Apple has had tiling for as long as the Power VR GPU had it. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors

    and;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiled_rendering

    That actually states how it works.

    Adding tiling as a software fix to SOC's that don't have it is a kludge; there isn't a better way of putting it. Boosts the framerate but at a loss in quality. 

    Does the Kirin 970 GPU support tiling with the Mali GPU? If it does, then why would it benefit from a software patch to do something it should be doing anyway?

    You need to do better in your response to this.

    Edit;

    Your purchase of the Honor 10 was relevant. It's how you cast your vote. 

    You went with the better value in the Honor 10 over the P20 Pro. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm betting that "value" is why the P20 lite is getting the bulk of the sales over it's brethren. That's where ASP comes in for Huawei. Buyer's are opting for value over features.

    It also looks like Apple has had deferred tiling from the iPhone 4S on. 
    Mali GPUs have had tiling for ages too. No kludge in sight.

    "Does the Kirin 970 GPU support tiling with the Mali GPU? If it does, then why would it benefit from a software patch to do something it should be doing anyway?"

    It is not a software 'patch'. All we know (officially) is that it is a reorganising of how things are handled from within the kernel and up through EMUI. One of the supposed benefits is adding HDR like imaging. Another is the so-called 4D aspect which analyses gaming to add realtime effects to gameplay. I'd say that kind of stuff takes it way past 'kludge' and 'patches'. Later the technology will also be used for VR and the EMUI graphics. You affirm a loss in quality but there is nothing to confirm that.

    "Your purchase of the Honor 10 was relevant. It's how you cast your vote"

    Yes, we cast our votes as it were with our purchases but having an Honor 10 is irrelevant. You cast your vote whenever you purchase a phone. My opinion was equally valid with my old phone. It didn't need a new phone to be more valid.

    Of course value is important and purchasing power depends on many factors. As a result it is logical that the P20 Pro is outsold by cheaper phones. That is the whole point of having a wide offering. Apple is doing exactly the same.

    ASP is irrelevant to consumers. 

     





  • Reply 48 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



    Turbo GT is tiling, nothing more.

    https://wccftech.com/huawei-gpu-turbo-explained/

    Apple has had that for a long time via the PowerVR GPU architecture, and more recently, via their own GPU.

    https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/graphics/architecture/

    It may be useful to add "tiling" in software to get a performance boost for lower end SOC's that don't support it in hardware, but it isn't magic, and there is undoubtedly a penalty in image quality for that performance boost.

    "All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price".

    How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything.
    No one is talking about magic. Simply a GPU Turbo boost. Apparently one that puts a mid tier Kirin GPU toe to toe with an iPhone X in some areas 

    "How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything."

    I am writing this from an Honor 10, not that that is at all relevant.

    Thanks for the wccftech link btw, it is a pretty clear description of what's happening.
    Game test of four top phones; 
     


    No surprise that the iPhone X looks better, and plays smoother than all of the others. Second place went to the S9, followed by the Huawei Mate 10 Pro, and the LG V30.


    This is irrelevant to Turbo GPU.

    The Kirin 970 was deliberately built around ARM's outgoing combos and not the latest, freshest chips. The reason was chip maturity. The SoC (with the new NPU design) wasn't one to take risks on. The transistor density of the Kirin 970 was difficult to pull off so they played safe. A wise decision as the rest of the SoC had dual custom built ISPs, Cat 18 modem etc.

    There are rumors that Huawei is working on a custom GPU but for rumours there are plenty. Perhaps with the Kirin 980:

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Kirin-980-powered-Huawei-Mate-20-makes-shock-AnTuTu-appearance-outperforms-the-Snapdragon-845.296680.0.html

    Whatever happens, Turbo GPU will be coming to the Mate 10 next month.




  • Reply 49 of 66
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



    Turbo GT is tiling, nothing more.

    https://wccftech.com/huawei-gpu-turbo-explained/

    Apple has had that for a long time via the PowerVR GPU architecture, and more recently, via their own GPU.

    https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/graphics/architecture/

    It may be useful to add "tiling" in software to get a performance boost for lower end SOC's that don't support it in hardware, but it isn't magic, and there is undoubtedly a penalty in image quality for that performance boost.

    "All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price".

    How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything.
    No one is talking about magic. Simply a GPU Turbo boost. Apparently one that puts a mid tier Kirin GPU toe to toe with an iPhone X in some areas 

    "How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything."

    I am writing this from an Honor 10, not that that is at all relevant.

    Thanks for the wccftech link btw, it is a pretty clear description of what's happening.
    Game test of four top phones; 
     


    No surprise that the iPhone X looks better, and plays smoother than all of the others. Second place went to the S9, followed by the Huawei Mate 10 Pro, and the LG V30.


    This is irrelevant to Turbo GPU.

    The Kirin 970 was deliberately built around ARM's outgoing combos and not the latest, freshest chips. The reason was chip maturity. The SoC (with the new NPU design) wasn't one to take risks on. The transistor density of the Kirin 970 was difficult to pull off so they played safe. A wise decision as the rest of the SoC had dual custom built ISPs, Cat 18 modem etc.

    There are rumors that Huawei is working on a custom GPU but for rumours there are plenty. Perhaps with the Kirin 980:

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Kirin-980-powered-Huawei-Mate-20-makes-shock-AnTuTu-appearance-outperforms-the-Snapdragon-845.296680.0.html

    Whatever happens, Turbo GPU will be coming to the Mate 10 next month.




    When you are talking about "chip" architecture, you really are winging it, aren't you.

    Did I mention that the benchmark for the 980 that you posted is, at best, a test setup, not an actual Mate 20?

    From your link:

    "Of course, we're leery of the entire thing. Benchmark listings are notoriously easy to game, and this may very well be no different from the plethora of fake benchmark sightings we've had in the past".

    I'll wait for actual benchmarks the the 980, and similarly, for the A12, after they appear in actual products.

    Also of note, HiSilicon/Huawei are licensing IP from Cambricon, a Chinese AI company, for their NPU.
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 50 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    Sounds like it’s time for a new fried chicken phone!
    Perhaps you should brace yourself for some serious competition this year end.
    Yeah man. The iphone killers from the chinese knockoffs are always just down the road....They’re comin! Just you wait... Same old story. 

    Sorry, but when your business model is based on copying what Apple does after Apple does it, it makes this difficult. You can’t lead from behind. 
    It's not about 'iPhone killers'. That's the extremist in you because you think the iPhone is blazing the trail. It isn't, but most people simply don't care. They like what they like. 

    It's about competition and even the Mate 10 presentation was full of comparisons with Samsung and Apple. Comparisons that allow users to form a picture of how phones compare on many levels. If you watched one you would see things that would leave your comments on very shaky ground. It's not 'they're comin'. They are already here! No need to wait!

    Sit down, take a breather and take a look at where Apple needs to catch-up because just by watching a couple of Huawei presentations you will see the pressure Apple is under. I'm talking batteries, charging, photography, modems, AI etc and even exterior design.

    And while Apple's iPhone 8/X are looking rather tired now, Huawei has pushed the Kirin 970 down onto lower tiered NEW phones at attractive but profitable prices giving millions of users key features at affordable prices. Now Turbo GPU has been announced and even many older phones will get it and it is clear that Huawei has important plans for it to branch out of gaming uses in the future.

    We'll see what Apple has up its sleeve but there's still a wait. And remember, Samsung also has to stoke its embers.






    70 percent of the 220 m iPhones sold next year will have the "tired" look of the X in three sizes, all running the A12, two of those models with OLED. The Turbo GPU isn't a relevant comparison to Apple anyway as all of Apple's products currently supported by iOS are running Metal or Metal 2. Turbo GT is just a Kludge for devices with limited GPU"s; there isn't anything "Turbo" about it other than the moniker.

    You, as per usual, make comparisons between hardware, not ecosystems. In actuality, Huawei competes with Xiaomi, Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, et al, and not directly with Apple's iPhone. You should be concerned that Samsung will have three Galaxy 10's out, one with three color imagers, each in a different focal length, competing against a less effective system in the P20 Pro, which, as it turns out, isn't the big seller in the P20 line. Chasing features is a fool's errand.

    More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race. 

    I'm just not seeing Apple under pressure from "batteries, charging, photography, modems, or AI, and even exterior design". The fact is, most people gave up chasing features, and have settled into their favored ecosystem, so, not much leakage one way or another. Sad for Huawei that they have to spend so much in acquisition of all of those new customers to get to that 220 m units per year sales, while Apple will be making much higher ASP's and investing in services and new products.
    I was using tired in the sense that it hadn't changed in almost a year, not the notch design. The notch will disappear at some point and after that all phones will look the same from the front. Not so from the back and you don't know what Apple has in store. You might be surprised.

    Turbo GPU is relevant. How much is the question. Honor puts performance boosts up to 60% but I have seen one report of a 77% boost. It puts SoC power saving at up to 30%. If that is true it will pass from relevant to very relevant. It is definitely not a kludge. Honor has put a value on this of over 10 billion dollars but there you go. You have nothing to go on but you are already labelling it a kludge!

    You speak of Metal and Metal 2 but when Honor announced Turbo GPU, it claimed it had allowed a mid tier phone to match an iPhone X in gaming performance. Perhaps the game in question wasn't using Metal or Metal 2? Does it matter? Not to the users of the phone in question because they paid more than three times less than the user of an iPhone X. Maybe even four times less! We will see. The point is, I am relaying what has actually been said by the company but I get the sensation you are simply making it up.

    Yes. I am comparing phones, not ecosystems.

    Huawei competes directly with Apple and everyone else. During setup of a new phone the Huawei migration tool will even ask you if you are migrating from an iPhone! Yes, they have enough switchers to merit developing software to manage iPhone transfers.

    I don't care about Snapdragon, Samsung, Apple or Huawei. Competition is good. All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price.

    People will never give up chasing features. Have you forgotten all the frothing over ARkit? ARkit hasn't delivered yet but Huawei has delivered on everything else I mentioned. That matters and impacts your everyday use of the phone.

    ASP, once more, is irrelevant for consumers.



    Turbo GT is tiling, nothing more.

    https://wccftech.com/huawei-gpu-turbo-explained/

    Apple has had that for a long time via the PowerVR GPU architecture, and more recently, via their own GPU.

    https://www.imgtec.com/powervr/graphics/architecture/

    It may be useful to add "tiling" in software to get a performance boost for lower end SOC's that don't support it in hardware, but it isn't magic, and there is undoubtedly a penalty in image quality for that performance boost.

    "All I care about is having a good phone at a competitive price".

    How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything.
    No one is talking about magic. Simply a GPU Turbo boost. Apparently one that puts a mid tier Kirin GPU toe to toe with an iPhone X in some areas 

    "How about stop talking about it and buy something.,,anything."

    I am writing this from an Honor 10, not that that is at all relevant.

    Thanks for the wccftech link btw, it is a pretty clear description of what's happening.
    Game test of four top phones; 
     


    No surprise that the iPhone X looks better, and plays smoother than all of the others. Second place went to the S9, followed by the Huawei Mate 10 Pro, and the LG V30.


    This is irrelevant to Turbo GPU.

    The Kirin 970 was deliberately built around ARM's outgoing combos and not the latest, freshest chips. The reason was chip maturity. The SoC (with the new NPU design) wasn't one to take risks on. The transistor density of the Kirin 970 was difficult to pull off so they played safe. A wise decision as the rest of the SoC had dual custom built ISPs, Cat 18 modem etc.

    There are rumors that Huawei is working on a custom GPU but for rumours there are plenty. Perhaps with the Kirin 980:

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Kirin-980-powered-Huawei-Mate-20-makes-shock-AnTuTu-appearance-outperforms-the-Snapdragon-845.296680.0.html

    Whatever happens, Turbo GPU will be coming to the Mate 10 next month.




    When you are talking about "chip" architecture, you really are winging it, aren't you.

    Did I mention that the benchmark for the 980 that you posted is, at best, a test setup, not an actual Mate 20?

    From your link:

    "Of course, we're leery of the entire thing. Benchmark listings are notoriously easy to game, and this may very well be no different from the plethora of fake benchmark sightings we've had in the past".

    I'll wait for actual benchmarks the the 980, and similarly, for the A12, after they appear in actual products.

    Also of note, HiSilicon/Huawei are licensing IP from Cambricon, a Chinese AI company, for their NPU.
    Which is precisely why I said for rumours, there are plenty.

    HiSilicon isn't just licencing IP from Cambricon. It has an active role in developing the NPU, and is funding its development. This has been known since the presentation keynote.

    "In the case of the Kirin 970 the NPU is provided by a new Chinese IP provider called Cambricon. The Kirin 970 NPU however isn’t a straight off-the-shelf offering but rather a co-development between Cambricon and HiSilicon optimized to HiSilicon’s requirements."

     
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12195/hisilicon-kirin-970-power-performance-overview/5

    I would not be surprised to see Cambricon/HiSilicon involved in Huawei's big iron servers and cloud infrastructure either.
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 51 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member


    tmay said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the KKiri 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."


    Interesting that you seem so confident.

    You might have an answer in around five weeks from now:

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/07/23/kirin-980-specs-leaked-maximum-clocking-speed-could-be-2-8-ghz/

    "Rumors have it that for the first time Huawei may pack its own graphics processor inside it. The performance of the GPU of the Kirin 980 is speculated to be 1.5 times better than Adreno 630 that comes with Snapdragon 845."

    We'll see how that plays out.


    edited July 2018
  • Reply 52 of 66
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the KKiri 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."


    Interesting that you seem so confident.

    You might have an answer in around five weeks from now:

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/07/23/kirin-980-specs-leaked-maximum-clocking-speed-could-be-2-8-ghz/

    "Rumors have it that for the first time Huawei may pack its own graphics processor inside it. The performance of the GPU of the Kirin 980 is speculated to be 1.5 times better than Adreno 630 that comes with Snapdragon 845."

    We'll see how that plays out.
    Benchmarks are one thing - sustainable performance is another thing which NOT many tech websites dig deep into, except AnandTech. AnandTech had praised the Kirin 950 on the sustained performance and thermal management 2 years back. But they criticized the recent Kirin 960 and 970. We will have to wait for a deep dive by AnandTech to see how Kirin 980 holds up.
  • Reply 53 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the KKiri 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."


    Interesting that you seem so confident.

    You might have an answer in around five weeks from now:

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/07/23/kirin-980-specs-leaked-maximum-clocking-speed-could-be-2-8-ghz/

    "Rumors have it that for the first time Huawei may pack its own graphics processor inside it. The performance of the GPU of the Kirin 980 is speculated to be 1.5 times better than Adreno 630 that comes with Snapdragon 845."

    We'll see how that plays out.
    Benchmarks are one thing - sustainable performance is another thing which NOT many tech websites dig deep into, except AnandTech. AnandTech had praised the Kirin 950 on the sustained performance and thermal management 2 years back. But they criticized the recent Kirin 960 and 970. We will have to wait for a deep dive by AnandTech to see how Kirin 980 holds up.
    Most definitely.

    At this point all we have is rumour and speculation. I just wanted to counter what tmay has already presented as 'absolutes' (although he has absolutely nothing to back the claims up) with the only information that is really out (marking it clearly for what it is (rumours).

    If they present their own GPU (something that has been heavily suspected for nearly two years now) it will be first generation and possibly lacking optimizations. On the other hand, the 7nm process will help with efficiencies overall and the second generation NPU is rumoured to be much more capable per watt than the first gen product. Added to that, one of the tentpole features of Turbo GPU is its up to 30% power saving but all that is to be seen.
  • Reply 54 of 66
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the KKiri 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."


    Interesting that you seem so confident.

    You might have an answer in around five weeks from now:

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/07/23/kirin-980-specs-leaked-maximum-clocking-speed-could-be-2-8-ghz/

    "Rumors have it that for the first time Huawei may pack its own graphics processor inside it. The performance of the GPU of the Kirin 980 is speculated to be 1.5 times better than Adreno 630 that comes with Snapdragon 845."

    We'll see how that plays out.
    Benchmarks are one thing - sustainable performance is another thing which NOT many tech websites dig deep into, except AnandTech. AnandTech had praised the Kirin 950 on the sustained performance and thermal management 2 years back. But they criticized the recent Kirin 960 and 970. We will have to wait for a deep dive by AnandTech to see how Kirin 980 holds up.
    Most definitely.

    At this point all we have is rumour and speculation. I just wanted to counter what tmay has already presented as 'absolutes' (although he has absolutely nothing to back the claims up) with the only information that is really out (marking it clearly for what it is (rumours).

    If they present their own GPU (something that has been heavily suspected for nearly two years now) it will be first generation and possibly lacking optimizations. On the other hand, the 7nm process will help with efficiencies overall and the second generation NPU is rumoured to be much more capable per watt than the first gen product. Added to that, one of the tentpole features of Turbo GPU is its up to 30% power saving but all that is to be seen.
    There you go again, adding to the speculation in favor of your favored Huawei.

    How about you just sit back and wait for the 980 to arrive in a product, and the "Turbo GT" software to be released and available for review and benchmarking? 

    Every major SOC maker will be a 7nm this fall, so it will be easy to compare performance amongst the new devices.


  • Reply 55 of 66
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,015member
    Stupid. Number of shipments does not equal profitability, especially in the commoditized Android manufacturer space.
  • Reply 56 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    Stupid. Number of shipments does not equal profitability, especially in the commoditized Android manufacturer space.
    Profits or profitability?

    If you are vertically integrated and move from 100,000,000 units shipped to 200,000,000 in just a couple of years it could have a massive impact on profitability.

    In January this year AI ran an article on the huge cost of 7nm process and that it was speculated that only Apple and Samsung would be able to afford it. That's just one example of why the unit shipments matter.

     If you also want to monetise those shipments through services etc, your potential for increased profitability really starts to take off.

    If you couple that with a solid business strategy (linking carrier infrastructure to handset discounts), it begins to pay off in a big way and impacts competitors:

    https://www.telecompaper.com/news/huawei-targets-sales-of-3-million-smartphones-in-portugal-in-2018--1253697



    edited July 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 57 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the KKiri 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."


    Interesting that you seem so confident.

    You might have an answer in around five weeks from now:

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/07/23/kirin-980-specs-leaked-maximum-clocking-speed-could-be-2-8-ghz/

    "Rumors have it that for the first time Huawei may pack its own graphics processor inside it. The performance of the GPU of the Kirin 980 is speculated to be 1.5 times better than Adreno 630 that comes with Snapdragon 845."

    We'll see how that plays out.
    Benchmarks are one thing - sustainable performance is another thing which NOT many tech websites dig deep into, except AnandTech. AnandTech had praised the Kirin 950 on the sustained performance and thermal management 2 years back. But they criticized the recent Kirin 960 and 970. We will have to wait for a deep dive by AnandTech to see how Kirin 980 holds up.
    Most definitely.

    At this point all we have is rumour and speculation. I just wanted to counter what tmay has already presented as 'absolutes' (although he has absolutely nothing to back the claims up) with the only information that is really out (marking it clearly for what it is (rumours).

    If they present their own GPU (something that has been heavily suspected for nearly two years now) it will be first generation and possibly lacking optimizations. On the other hand, the 7nm process will help with efficiencies overall and the second generation NPU is rumoured to be much more capable per watt than the first gen product. Added to that, one of the tentpole features of Turbo GPU is its up to 30% power saving but all that is to be seen.
    There you go again, adding to the speculation in favor of your favored Huawei.

    How about you just sit back and wait for the 980 to arrive in a product, and the "Turbo GT" software to be released and available for review and benchmarking? 

    Every major SOC maker will be a 7nm this fall, so it will be easy to compare performance amongst the new devices.


    No. Speculation and rumour is all their is. Nothing more. That's why I made a point of making that clear when you jumped in feet first with your 'absolute' comments that aren't based on anything that is really known, real or independently scrutinised 

    You say 'this' or 'that' is this or that way but you simply don't know. No one does!

    Yes, sit back and wait. That's the correct way. Mention rumours and speculation if you wish but don't start throwing absolutes around because there are none (in the context of what matters here).
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 58 of 66
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the KKiri 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."


    Interesting that you seem so confident.

    You might have an answer in around five weeks from now:

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/07/23/kirin-980-specs-leaked-maximum-clocking-speed-could-be-2-8-ghz/

    "Rumors have it that for the first time Huawei may pack its own graphics processor inside it. The performance of the GPU of the Kirin 980 is speculated to be 1.5 times better than Adreno 630 that comes with Snapdragon 845."

    We'll see how that plays out.
    Benchmarks are one thing - sustainable performance is another thing which NOT many tech websites dig deep into, except AnandTech. AnandTech had praised the Kirin 950 on the sustained performance and thermal management 2 years back. But they criticized the recent Kirin 960 and 970. We will have to wait for a deep dive by AnandTech to see how Kirin 980 holds up.
    Most definitely.

    At this point all we have is rumour and speculation. I just wanted to counter what tmay has already presented as 'absolutes' (although he has absolutely nothing to back the claims up) with the only information that is really out (marking it clearly for what it is (rumours).

    If they present their own GPU (something that has been heavily suspected for nearly two years now) it will be first generation and possibly lacking optimizations. On the other hand, the 7nm process will help with efficiencies overall and the second generation NPU is rumoured to be much more capable per watt than the first gen product. Added to that, one of the tentpole features of Turbo GPU is its up to 30% power saving but all that is to be seen.
    There you go again, adding to the speculation in favor of your favored Huawei.

    How about you just sit back and wait for the 980 to arrive in a product, and the "Turbo GT" software to be released and available for review and benchmarking? 

    Every major SOC maker will be a 7nm this fall, so it will be easy to compare performance amongst the new devices.


    No. Speculation and rumour is all their is. Nothing more. That's why I made a point of making that clear when you jumped in feet first with your 'absolute' comments that aren't based on anything that is really known, real or independently scrutinised 

    You say 'this' or 'that' is this or that way but you simply don't know. No one does!

    Yes, sit back and wait. That's the correct way. Mention rumours and speculation if you wish but don't start throwing absolutes around because there are none (in the context of what matters here).
    Absolutely, the Kirin 970 does not do as well in benchmarks as the A11 or the Qualcomm 845; it isn't even close.

    Qualcomm has it's 855 that will be a 7nm SOC coming out later than the others, but otherwise, I'm not seeing the Kirin 980 as making such a large jump with off the shelf compute cores. You may be right that it will do better than the 845 in graphics performance, but that isn't the end all be all of performance benchmarks. Hence why I stated that the competition will match or exceed the Kirin 980.
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 59 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the KKiri 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."


    Interesting that you seem so confident.

    You might have an answer in around five weeks from now:

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/07/23/kirin-980-specs-leaked-maximum-clocking-speed-could-be-2-8-ghz/

    "Rumors have it that for the first time Huawei may pack its own graphics processor inside it. The performance of the GPU of the Kirin 980 is speculated to be 1.5 times better than Adreno 630 that comes with Snapdragon 845."

    We'll see how that plays out.
    Benchmarks are one thing - sustainable performance is another thing which NOT many tech websites dig deep into, except AnandTech. AnandTech had praised the Kirin 950 on the sustained performance and thermal management 2 years back. But they criticized the recent Kirin 960 and 970. We will have to wait for a deep dive by AnandTech to see how Kirin 980 holds up.
    Most definitely.

    At this point all we have is rumour and speculation. I just wanted to counter what tmay has already presented as 'absolutes' (although he has absolutely nothing to back the claims up) with the only information that is really out (marking it clearly for what it is (rumours).

    If they present their own GPU (something that has been heavily suspected for nearly two years now) it will be first generation and possibly lacking optimizations. On the other hand, the 7nm process will help with efficiencies overall and the second generation NPU is rumoured to be much more capable per watt than the first gen product. Added to that, one of the tentpole features of Turbo GPU is its up to 30% power saving but all that is to be seen.
    There you go again, adding to the speculation in favor of your favored Huawei.

    How about you just sit back and wait for the 980 to arrive in a product, and the "Turbo GT" software to be released and available for review and benchmarking? 

    Every major SOC maker will be a 7nm this fall, so it will be easy to compare performance amongst the new devices.


    No. Speculation and rumour is all their is. Nothing more. That's why I made a point of making that clear when you jumped in feet first with your 'absolute' comments that aren't based on anything that is really known, real or independently scrutinised 

    You say 'this' or 'that' is this or that way but you simply don't know. No one does!

    Yes, sit back and wait. That's the correct way. Mention rumours and speculation if you wish but don't start throwing absolutes around because there are none (in the context of what matters here).
    Absolutely, the Kirin 970 does not do as well in benchmarks as the A11 or the Qualcomm 845; it isn't even close.

    Qualcomm has it's 855 that will a a 7nm SOC coming out later than the others, but otherwise, I'm not seeing the Kirin 980 as making such a large jump with off the shelf compute cores. You may be right that it will do better than the 845 in graphics performance, but that isn't the end all be all of performance benchmarks. Hence why I stated that the competition will match or exceed the Kirin 980.
    That is better from you but wasn't it you yourself who said needed a better response?

    This is what you actually said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."

    That's pretty absolute. No. "Will match or exceed..." is totally absolute!

    And when I quoted you the first time (this is the second) I bolded the problem parts for a reason. Here it is:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."

    And then you start your explanation by bolding an entire opening paragraph on the Kirin 970!

    And in your reply you throw in the Snapdragon 855 (which wasn't even mentioned) and all the absolutes are now nowhere to be seen!

    What you are trying to do is re-work what you said. A simple 'my bad' would have been enough. Not even that if you hadn't thrown in the 'better response' and 'there'you go again' parts 

    At the end of the day you are now admitting you simply don't know. No problem with that. I don't either.

    I don't agree with your lead out but as you've repackaged what you are saying to make it clear it's only your opinion, I find it more than valid.

    That said, I should point out that the rumours claim the Kirin 980 will include Cortex A77 cores, which, as far as I know, do not exist. It could be a typo but what if it isn't?

    How could you form an opinion on cores that no one has any information on?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to think it's a typo but I won't close the door completely on that, just in case.




    edited July 2018
  • Reply 60 of 66
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the KKiri 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."


    Interesting that you seem so confident.

    You might have an answer in around five weeks from now:

    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/07/23/kirin-980-specs-leaked-maximum-clocking-speed-could-be-2-8-ghz/

    "Rumors have it that for the first time Huawei may pack its own graphics processor inside it. The performance of the GPU of the Kirin 980 is speculated to be 1.5 times better than Adreno 630 that comes with Snapdragon 845."

    We'll see how that plays out.
    Benchmarks are one thing - sustainable performance is another thing which NOT many tech websites dig deep into, except AnandTech. AnandTech had praised the Kirin 950 on the sustained performance and thermal management 2 years back. But they criticized the recent Kirin 960 and 970. We will have to wait for a deep dive by AnandTech to see how Kirin 980 holds up.
    Most definitely.

    At this point all we have is rumour and speculation. I just wanted to counter what tmay has already presented as 'absolutes' (although he has absolutely nothing to back the claims up) with the only information that is really out (marking it clearly for what it is (rumours).

    If they present their own GPU (something that has been heavily suspected for nearly two years now) it will be first generation and possibly lacking optimizations. On the other hand, the 7nm process will help with efficiencies overall and the second generation NPU is rumoured to be much more capable per watt than the first gen product. Added to that, one of the tentpole features of Turbo GPU is its up to 30% power saving but all that is to be seen.
    There you go again, adding to the speculation in favor of your favored Huawei.

    How about you just sit back and wait for the 980 to arrive in a product, and the "Turbo GT" software to be released and available for review and benchmarking? 

    Every major SOC maker will be a 7nm this fall, so it will be easy to compare performance amongst the new devices.


    No. Speculation and rumour is all their is. Nothing more. That's why I made a point of making that clear when you jumped in feet first with your 'absolute' comments that aren't based on anything that is really known, real or independently scrutinised 

    You say 'this' or 'that' is this or that way but you simply don't know. No one does!

    Yes, sit back and wait. That's the correct way. Mention rumours and speculation if you wish but don't start throwing absolutes around because there are none (in the context of what matters here).
    Absolutely, the Kirin 970 does not do as well in benchmarks as the A11 or the Qualcomm 845; it isn't even close.

    Qualcomm has it's 855 that will a a 7nm SOC coming out later than the others, but otherwise, I'm not seeing the Kirin 980 as making such a large jump with off the shelf compute cores. You may be right that it will do better than the 845 in graphics performance, but that isn't the end all be all of performance benchmarks. Hence why I stated that the competition will match or exceed the Kirin 980.
    That is better from you but wasn't it you yourself who said needed a better response?

    This is what you actually said:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."

    That's pretty absolute. No. "Will match or exceed..." is totally absolute!

    And when I quoted you the first time (this is the second) I bolded the problem parts for a reason. Here it is:

    "More to the point, Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845, and Samsung's Exynos 9820, will match or exceed the Kirin 970 and 980, and I'm betting that the A12 will as well, so I'm not seeing much of a race."

    And then you start your explanation by bolding an entire opening paragraph on the Kirin 970!

    And in your reply you throw in the Snapdragon 855 (which wasn't even mentioned) and all the absolutes are now nowhere to be seen!

    What you are trying to do is re-work what you said. A simple 'my bad' would have been enough. Not even that if you hadn't thrown in the 'better response' and 'there'you go again' parts 

    At the end of the day you are now admitting you simply don't know. No problem with that. I don't either.

    I don't agree with your lead out but as you've repackaged what you are saying to make it clear it's only your opinion, I find it more than valid.

    That said, I should point out that the rumours claim the Kirin 980 will include Cortex A77 cores, which, as far as I know, do not exist. It could be a typo but what if it isn't?

    How could you form an opinion on cores that no one has any information on?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to think it's a typo but I won't close the door completely on that, just in case.




    Okay, so here's one of the reason's that I'm confident about by statement.

    First off, there is no A77 core, and the A76 core is 4 wide microarchitecture compared to Apple's current 6 wide architecture.

    So this is the prediction that Anadtech has for the comparative performance of the A76 core vs the A11 Monsoon core;

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12785/arm-cortex-a76-cpu-unveiled-7nm-powerhouse/4

    "In terms of general IPC Arm promises a ~25% increase in integer workloads and a ~35% increase in ASIMD/floating point workloads. Together with up to 90% higher memory bandwidth figures compared to the A75 the A76 is then meant to provide around a 28% increase in GeekBench4 and 35% more JavaScript performance (Octane, JetStream). In AI inferencing workloads the doubled ASIMD 128-bit capabilities of the A76 serves to quadruple the general matrix multiply performance in half precision formats.

    These performance figures are respectable but not quite earth-shattering considering the tone of the improvements of the µarch. However it’s to note that we’re expecting the A76 to come first be deployed in flagship SoCs on TSMC’s 7nm process which allows for increased clocks."

    That pretty much describes the Kirin 980, and the Qualcomm 855, but note, the Kirin 780 is still quite far behind the Qualcomm 845 as is. The A12's microarchitecture and Apple's experience in optimization pretty much guarantees that the A12 will continue holding the crown for both single thread and multiple thread performance. 

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