You are the product if you use a Roku streamer, says company CEO

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 66
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    When people are treated like cattle, human protection laws don’t apply to them anymore. I don’t just mean operationally like cattle, I mean under laws designed to consider them cattle. I’m not sure how much more specific I can be without… well, anyway. All this talk by companies of “people being the product” (or even their information being the product) means that the companies can ignore human rights and legal protections for humans in dealing with said “product.” And there’s nothing (nonviolent) that can be done about it.
    watto_cobramuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 22 of 66
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,721member
     Isn’t this sort of obvious . Nothing is free in this world .
    Except Roku isn't free; they're just 'subsidizing' the cost with ad revenue, so no it's not totally obvious.
    gatorguy said:
    DAalseth said: "I sure hope they don't get really pushy with the ads." Don't you understand? YOU are the ad. Roku makes money off of you. What if someone wanted to punish you for viewing a lot of content on CNN? The government can now identify you and come after you. It's what gun-rights advocates feared so much about gun registration. With Roku, you're now registered as a certain type of person, based on your viewing habits.
    There is not enough tinfoil in Publix to cover your worries. 
    I just read a report about insurance companies buying consumer data to 'adjust' rates. No, unfortunately, I don't think it's a tinfoil argument. The big probem with all of this is the insidious nature of it. companies are collecting huge amounts of data in ways we don't expect, in volumes we don't expect, and are able to refine it in ways we don't expect, so suddenly, the privacy we expect no longer exists.

    People worry about greykey being able to hack an iPhone, but I worry a lot more about google, facebook, etc.
    lostkiwikirkgrayStrangeDaysbaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 66
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,238member
    MplsP said:
     Isn’t this sort of obvious . Nothing is free in this world .
    Except Roku isn't free; they're just 'subsidizing' the cost with ad revenue, so no it's not totally obvious.
    gatorguy said:
    DAalseth said: "I sure hope they don't get really pushy with the ads." Don't you understand? YOU are the ad. Roku makes money off of you. What if someone wanted to punish you for viewing a lot of content on CNN? The government can now identify you and come after you. It's what gun-rights advocates feared so much about gun registration. With Roku, you're now registered as a certain type of person, based on your viewing habits.
    There is not enough tinfoil in Publix to cover your worries. 
    I just read a report about insurance companies buying consumer data to 'adjust' rates. No, unfortunately, I don't think it's a tinfoil argument. The big probem with all of this is the insidious nature of it. companies are collecting huge amounts of data in ways we don't expect, in volumes we don't expect, and are able to refine it in ways we don't expect, so suddenly, the privacy we expect no longer exists.

    People worry about greykey being able to hack an iPhone, but I worry a lot more about google, facebook, etc.
    I worry less about Google and Facebook and more about Experian and Acxiom and TransUnion, and the back-door agreements my financial services like bank/investment house and credit card provider have made with hundreds of smaller data aggregators which leaves so many potential attack vectors for stealing identifiable personal information that directly impacts my finances. No ad put in front of me is going to cost me a potential client, get me denied for an equipment loan, affect my margin rate, or allow theft from my accounts. 

    https://www.americanbanker.com/news/is-finras-dire-warning-about-data-aggregators-on-target
    edited July 2018 kirkgraybaconstangmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 24 of 66
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 368member
    nht said:

    Anyone doing careful analysis of my viewing habits would put me in the "Everything is Awesome" (Lego Movie reference) category since my kids steal my phone all the time to watch stuff.
    I dunno, that's a pretty subversive, anti-authoritarian movie!   ;)
    baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 66
    Oh and you think Time warner/spectrum or Comcast- when you paid them $200 a month for all your cable fees - didn’t also sell you as the product? Please! I love Roku. 
    tycho_macuser
  • Reply 26 of 66
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,331member
    1) I appreciate the CEO being upfront about what everyone should know.

    2) While there is no evidence of Apple selling your personal data, I’m seeing a lot of comment implyjng that Apple doesn’t leverage your data to learn how to better profit from you. Even going to a specific movie on the iTunes Store and having other films suggested because of similiarilitiea is a form of ad targeting, for Thai one example. It just happens to be what we consider acceptable, but it’s still happening.

    3) I’m curious who is bothered that a company like, say, MoviePass, will need to use your movie watching history and patterns in order generate some revenue? I’m probably at around $1.75 per movie… and these are all movies I would’ve seen in the theater. So what am I losing because some company that probably won’t exist in a year knows that I’ll go see Mission: Impossible - Fallout next week on opening day. I guarantee you that AI knows a lot more about me than MoviePass does.
    gatorguydasanman69bala1234
  • Reply 27 of 66
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,238member
    Soli said: I guarantee you that AI knows a lot more about me than MoviePass does.
    I had never thought of it that way. +1
  • Reply 28 of 66
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,329member
    Good to know their business model is ads. That'll keep me disinterested. Marketing has crossed the event horizon. I can't stand it at all any more. Any of it.
    bonobobwilliamlondonrotateleftbytebaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 66
    larrya said:
    claire1 said:
    Bravo for admitting it! Now to get Google to admit this along with how much they don't care about their customers.

    You’d think someone would buy Roku (the company)...

    Roku gets good reviews, and I’ve heard it’s a superior device.

    I wonder what Disney + Roku would look like...  Disney has tons of content, and old content that they could throw in for free; while monetizing new movies and shows.  They also has ESPN, which they have not transitioned very well to the digital age.

    Superior to what? The crappy android tv streamers? It's not a great device and is just another "me too" device following Apple's lead.

    I'll admit, even with Fire Sticks and an Apple TV, our 4 y/o Roku is still our go-to device. Simple to navigate, easy to search, great little remote (even though I use a Harmony more often), and the ability to connect headphones to the remote is pure genius. I am more than happy to be a product so they can be profitable. Any advertising they do on the system isn't intrusive at all.

    Not even close. I had to deal with a Roku while house sitting and you'd have to pay ME to use it. I'm used to the futuristic Apple TV Siri Remote and its simplicity so searching on Roku was a PAIN. It would take me about 45 seconds with latency and clicking buttons just to move over a letter where it would take me maybe 5 seconds using voice on Siri or 15 seconds swiping. Roku was such a pain I stopped using search.

    Also so many ADS.
    This is really interesting, because I've never seen a single ad on my Roku TV.  I use it mainly to see my DirecTV STB, YouTube, and Plex.  I don't have a recent Apple TV, but it certainly is head and shoulders above my 2nd Gen ATV.  My ATV was my first Apple product, and while I continue to use iPhones, iPads, Apple Watch, and Macs, I don't feel the slightest urge to ever buy another one while this option is still available.
    Your Roku DEFINITELY has an ad on the home screen (it’s the rectangle to the right of the content icons that cycles through a link to a popular show or movie every time you return to the home screen).
    However... what a testament to how unobtrusive they are that it never really registered to you!!!!
    I don’t notice that single unobtrusive “ad” either.
    I adore my ROKU... use it to receive video from my Mac mini Plex server & watch Prime, Netflix, & HBO- as well as listen to Pandora. It’s great!
    I wish all ad supported services could find a way to be this “back burner”... not in-your-face at all.
  • Reply 30 of 66
    Americans will hopefully wakeup to the fact their personal information has value and they should be remunerated. Or, have the option to opt out.

    Which means instead of making billions 'using' people's data, Google (read, evil) and their ilk should pay for said data and make millions.

    Won't happen here b/c congress is basically a 'concierge' for big business.

    Sad.
    edited July 2018 kudubaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 66

    ...People worry about greykey being able to hack an iPhone, but I worry a lot more about google, facebook, etc.
    Well said. :)

    I'd like Ai to do an article on the 'best' settings for Safari in High Sierra and iOS plus the best paid for and free apps that provide maximum security. 

    FYI: Not a Facebook, twitter, instagram user, nor Amazon Prime. Only use iTunes/ATV for media consumption. And, will not buy a device that is not made by Apple. Except of course, a dumb TV (not Samsung) and a Brother printer.
    liketheskywatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 66
    Which explains why Roku’s and Amazon’s products are cheaper than the Apple TV. Apple’s pricing represents the cost of manufacture, supply, and the need to make a decent profit. Roku’s pricing is at cost or less, designed to lure you into their ad model. 

    I’ll stick with Apple. 
    StrangeDaysbaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 66
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,783member
    And they charge you for the hardware??

    Well that’s a bit cheeky. At least Google gives you free stuff while ripping your personal information. 

    No, hang on. Google does you for hardware. 

    So there’s no real difference. 




    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 66
    This isn't news to me but I'm sure that it is to some.
    Friends keep nagging me to get something like an Amazon Fire Stick or sign up to Netflix so that they can get their fix of GoT etc when they visit. I won't so my home is a Game Of Thrones free zone. Not my cup of tea really so no great loss.
    My TV isn't connected to the Internet (and never will be) which means if the show isn't broadcast on FreeSat or FreeView [1] then I don't watch it.
    I really don't want anyone (and that includes Apple) knowing what I watch. What they don't know, they can't sling targetted Ads at you.

    [1] FreeSat and FreeView are totally free to air TV systems here in the UK. Most of the channels on FreeView (Digital Broadcast TV) are also on FreeSat. FreeView is built into all TV's and some include FreeSat as well. I use a HUMAX Satellite PVR to record all the programmes I want to watch. That means any adverts are skipped which is gooness as far as I'm concerned.
    baconstang
  • Reply 35 of 66
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,238member
    Americans will hopefully wakeup to the fact their personal information has value and they should be remunerated. Or, have the option to opt out.

    Which means instead of making billions 'using' people's data, Google (read, evil) and their ilk should pay for said data and make millions.

    Won't happen here b/c congress is basically a 'concierge' for big business.

    Sad.
     Just about every notable event in your entire life is available and most of it for purchase. Everything from where you went to school to everywhere you ever lived. Every traffic ticket, every accident, every time you visited a doctor, the shots you received and the medication you had filled at the pharmacy. The names of every one of your children, where they are now and what they do for a living. Your current address, the size of the lot, the layout of the home and size of each room. Everywhere you've worked, everything you earned year by year, what you do now and what you're paid for doing it. Every major purchase you've made in your adult life, the grades you received in school, the classes you took, and the teachers who taught you. How much of that do you think came from your Google dealings? Probably none of it. At all.
    "I visited Google and all I got was this lousy ad."

    But...but... EVERYONE knows Google is the big evil, so if all that data isn't coming from them then where? 

    Everytime you entered a contest, took a subscription, and filed a product warranty your personal information was harvested.  When you bought a car or home, filled a prescription, took a class, got a drivers license or work certification your data was harvested. When you purchased insurance, applied for any work/government benefits, filed a tax return, took part in a census, or had your health/auto/home insurer pay a claim your personal information was harvested. Remember when they asked for your phone number at the checkout earlier this week, purchased that thing yesterday with a credit card, and gave your reward card to the grocery and pharmacy clerks this month? Your data was harvested. Visited the dentist a few months back, and your doctor last week? Your data was harvested. Your vacation travel out of the country, the survey you took, the police report you filed, the rebate you applied for, and dozens of relatively mundane dealings you have with others on a regular basis? Yup, more harvesting of your personal data. Do any shopping lately? You were almost certainly clueless about those bluetooth beacons following you around the store and even on to the next one. Harvesting personal data. See the following link (BTW the default on your iPhone that allows those beacons to track you? On)
    https://www.adweek.com/digital/adobes-newest-labs-project-can-track-in-store-customers-in-real-time/

    Now throw in millions of companies using their collected customer data "to improve their services", psuedo-government agencies and official sounding groups doing "research", and then thousands of data aggregators large and small buying up snippets or even entire folders full of the personal data harvested by the methods I mentioned in the previous paragraph to put together a unified and far-ranging book of your life, for sale by the chapter or the entire series. 

    How do you propose being paid for that? How do you suggest opting out of all of it?

    But ignore all that. We all know who we should be watching. Make sure you keep an eye on the Google ball. Those ads can be so evil. The ones truly buying and selling you, every intimate personal and financial detail supplied by the BlueKai's and Experians and TransUnions of the business world, really do appreciate your undivided attention on someone other than them. 
    edited July 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 36 of 66
    Good argument for reading a book,
    maybe go outside and enjoy nature and leave all of this stuff behind. 

    You are always going to be harvested for your information no matter what you do, in the store to save some $ using your identifying number, your phone with the data that identifies you and what you do to your carrier, your car which has all sorts of chips that talk to the manufacturer, your bank, utility company, and your own state government all sell your info. They have been for a long time, it's just now they aren't subtle about it. They don't care if you know or not. 
    In fact, they love to give you the privacy notice and let you know you can't limit their practice of sharing your data. 

    How's that for a big f you?

    So you can try to control your data by opting out, but that's only if they are going to respect your wishes and follow thru, which they won't, or you can live your life and concentrate on what makes you happy and unplug yourself for awhile to enjoy your life as a person and not a commodity. 

    I wonder how much of a carbon footprint is made when you count all the different servers that collect data on me. 
    edited July 2018 baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 66
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,764member
    I'll admit, even with Fire Sticks and an Apple TV, our 4 y/o Roku is still our go-to device. Simple to navigate, easy to search, great little remote (even though I use a Harmony more often), and the ability to connect headphones to the remote is pure genius. I am more than happy to be a product so they can be profitable. Any advertising they do on the system isn't intrusive at all.
    You know what’s even more genius than tethering your wired headphones into a remote control on your lap? Putting your wireless AirPods in your ears. The same AirPods you use with your phone for work calls, the gym for workouts, the iPad in bed, and your Apple TV in the living room. No pairing hassle and no tethers. Genius. 
    edited July 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 66
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,764member
    claire1 said:
    "Cooking the frog slowly."
    Baby steps....
    But but but but but but but the slippery slope is a fallacyyyyyy!
    Yes, in logical discussion over a point of contention, it certainly is a logical fallacy to use a slippery slope argument to contend a different thing is a thing. Take a university logic course, you’ll enjoy it and thank me later. You’ll still be free to assert whatever you want, but at least you’ll know when you’re using a fallacious argument.
  • Reply 39 of 66
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,331member
    Good argument for reading a book,
    maybe go outside and enjoy nature and leave all of this stuff behind.
    Where are you getting this book? Library? You need to sign up and your reading habits are recorded. Buy one? You better bring cash, but even then there are cameras so someone could potentially find out what book you've purchased. I'd stick with books from garage sales and used books stores.

    Going for a walk? Don't bring your smartphone if you do because you'll be tracked that way the entire time.
    baconstang
  • Reply 40 of 66
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,764member
    gatorguy said:
    chasm said:

    Roku may or may not be inserting ads in your stream, but that’s not what the CEO said. What he said was that they are harvesting data about you without your permission or knowledge
    Where and when did he say that?

    For those using Roku but not wanting any Roku-delivered ads based on your viewing simply checkbox "Limit Ad Tracking" in privacy settings (your iPhone has a similar setting). At the same time, or instead if you wish, reset your Advertising Identifier. 
    If you have a SmartTV with Roku built-in then under those same privacy settings also turn off the Smart TV Experience (if you enabled it during setup).
    Only in the universe of a google shill would one suggest that it is obvious to normals that disabling the “Smart TV Experience” means “stop harvesting my data to sell as a monetized ad commodity”. To everyone else it is clear this is designed to hide what they’re doing from non-techie normals. 
    edited July 2018 williamlondonwatto_cobra
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