Personal data of two million customers swiped in T-Mobile breach

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 43
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    Why do you assume that our very hackable voting machines were built by people who  "don't know what they are doing?"  Aside from the fact that these machines are often 15+ years old and from before hacking was popular, they may well have been designed to be hackable -- or at least manipulated.

    The machines used here in PA can be hacked but, by design, they are totally impossible to verify or recount.  Whatever count comes out of that machine is what you get.  Period.   No bank in the world would have bought these things to track its cash.  But PA bought them to count our votes!  And, once they were implemented the state has gone from Democratic to Republican control -- which is not a surprise since the machines were designed and built by a Republican leaning company. 

    We need to treat our votes the same way that a bank treats its cash:   double checks everywhere plus random audits...  
    ronn
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 22 of 43
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    ronn said:
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Good for India! We're talking about GOP efforts to suppress voters here in the Good Ol' US of A. These recent efforts mirror the suppression of Black voters from the 50s and 60s -- although those efforts continued in earnest well into the 80s. They mandate voters have IDs and then make it almost impossible or expensive to obtain these IDs. It's a modern-day Poll Tax and blatant racism. It has the residue effect of hurting white voters, but mostly Democractic-leaning constituencies: younger voters (no Student IDs allowed), the elderly (friendly fire/collateral damage as older voters lean GOP) and working class voters that can't afford the price or efforts to obtain documents to in order to get restricted forms of ID.
    Driver's license serves fine.  Not a driver? In Florida the cost for an official non-driving photo-ID is $25.00, and valid for 8 years. Requires no more time than going to get your DL.  Homeless? The state may waive that fee if you are. Hardly cost-prohibitive then do you think?  
    Florida allows 12 different forms of ID. But that's because there was a fierce fight to ensure that new ID requirements weren't restrictive. I suspect that the larger percentage of older voters in FL scared away harsher ID laws. Of course, FL suppresses voters in other ways: voter purges that use wholly inaccurate voter rolls, felon disenfranchisement, decreasing early voting days nearly in half and lack of resources in certain polling districts (wanna take a guess what communities those are?).

    North Carolina is a perfect example of voter suppression targeting Black, Latino and student groups. They have limited IDs allowed for voting. Essentially a driver's license was mandated and then the state closed the vast majority of DMV offices in Black communities and the ones that remained had extremely limited hours. They disallowed student IDs from non-state colleges/universities, then all student IDs. They decimated early voting. Before they did all of this, they studied how groups voted and went after everything that benefited Black, Latino and student voting. They admitted it. Court have ruled that they went after Black and Democratic voters with precision. Restrictive voter ID laws are blatantly racist. These restrictive ID laws were chiefly motivated to suppress the Black vote in Texas, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Virginia and others.
    How do you suggest reliable citizenship and eligibility to vote be established? Related to that is the rationale for Real-ID valid in your opinion?
    You brought up Florida. The reliable and fair solution there was fought tooth and nail, allowing non-restrictive voter IDs. The non-drivers ID fee is reasonable only because it was fought for tooth and nail. It's valid for a decent amount of time only because that was fought for tooth and nail. And indigent individuals may (why not guaranteed?) get a free ID because it was fought for tooth and nail. And remember, there are 11 other forms of ID allowed. Other states have super restrictive ID laws because of racial and political motivations. But remember, Florida went out of its way to suppress certain constituencies after failing to implement stricter ID laws though.
    Yeh, and for this election Georgia is shutting down 7 of the 9 voting sites in a county that is 60% black.   We need to get rid of those who would use voter suppression to subvert our democracy. 
    ronn
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 23 of 43
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,679member
    ronn said:
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Good for India! We're talking about GOP efforts to suppress voters here in the Good Ol' US of A. These recent efforts mirror the suppression of Black voters from the 50s and 60s -- although those efforts continued in earnest well into the 80s. They mandate voters have IDs and then make it almost impossible or expensive to obtain these IDs. It's a modern-day Poll Tax and blatant racism. It has the residue effect of hurting white voters, but mostly Democractic-leaning constituencies: younger voters (no Student IDs allowed), the elderly (friendly fire/collateral damage as older voters lean GOP) and working class voters that can't afford the price or efforts to obtain documents to in order to get restricted forms of ID.
    Driver's license serves fine.  Not a driver? In Florida the cost for an official non-driving photo-ID is $25.00, and valid for 8 years. Requires no more time than going to get your DL.  Homeless? The state may waive that fee if you are. Hardly cost-prohibitive then do you think?  
    Florida allows 12 different forms of ID. But that's because there was a fierce fight to ensure that new ID requirements weren't restrictive. I suspect that the larger percentage of older voters in FL scared away harsher ID laws. Of course, FL suppresses voters in other ways: voter purges that use wholly inaccurate voter rolls, felon disenfranchisement, decreasing early voting days nearly in half and lack of resources in certain polling districts (wanna take a guess what communities those are?).

    North Carolina is a perfect example of voter suppression targeting Black, Latino and student groups. They have limited IDs allowed for voting. Essentially a driver's license was mandated and then the state closed the vast majority of DMV offices in Black communities and the ones that remained had extremely limited hours. They disallowed student IDs from non-state colleges/universities, then all student IDs. They decimated early voting. Before they did all of this, they studied how groups voted and went after everything that benefited Black, Latino and student voting. They admitted it. Court have ruled that they went after Black and Democratic voters with precision. Restrictive voter ID laws are blatantly racist. These restrictive ID laws were chiefly motivated to suppress the Black vote in Texas, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Virginia and others.
    How do you suggest reliable citizenship and eligibility to vote be established? Related to that is the rationale for Real-ID valid in your opinion?
    You brought up Florida. The reliable and fair solution there was fought tooth and nail, allowing non-restrictive voter IDs. The non-drivers ID fee is reasonable only because it was fought for tooth and nail. It's valid for a decent amount of time only because that was fought for tooth and nail. And indigent individuals may (why not guaranteed?) get a free ID because it was fought for tooth and nail. And remember, there are 11 other forms of ID allowed. Other states have super restrictive ID laws because of racial and political motivations. But remember, Florida went out of its way to suppress certain constituencies after failing to implement stricter ID laws though.
    Yeh, and for this election Georgia is shutting down 7 of the 9 voting sites in a county that is 60% black.   We need to get rid of those who would use voter suppression to subvert our democracy. 
    No I don't think so. AFAIK that was voted down by the county.
    edited August 2018
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 24 of 43
    nunzy said:
    I am loyal to ATT. They were the only ones who gave iPhone a chance. Nobody else had any faith in Apple.
    They, like Comcast and Cox, are not companies worthy of your loyalty. They routinely abuse their de facto monopoly status whenever they get a chance. AT&T benefited handsomely from the Apple exclusivity situation, threw Apple under the bus as soon as it was convenient, and screwed their gullible "grandfathered" customers by illegally throttling their data after 2GB -- as was subsequently ruled by the courts. I switched to T-Mobile years ago and couldn't be happier. I pay significantly less, and I get significantly more: faster data, better coverage, free international text and data roaming, inexpensive international voice roaming. T-Mobile rocks.
    nunzy
     0Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 25 of 43
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Good for India! We're talking about GOP efforts to suppress voters here in the Good Ol' US of A. These recent efforts mirror the suppression of Black voters from the 50s and 60s -- although those efforts continued in earnest well into the 80s. They mandate voters have IDs and then make it almost impossible or expensive to obtain these IDs. It's a modern-day Poll Tax and blatant racism. It has the residue effect of hurting white voters, but mostly Democractic-leaning constituencies: younger voters (no Student IDs allowed), the elderly (friendly fire/collateral damage as older voters lean GOP) and working class voters that can't afford the price or efforts to obtain documents to in order to get restricted forms of ID.
    Driver's license serves fine.  Not a driver? In Florida the cost for an official non-driving photo-ID is $25.00, and valid for 8 years. Requires no more time than going to get your DL.  Homeless? The state may waive that fee if you are. Hardly cost-prohibitive then do you think?  
    How hard it is to get an ID or Drivers license?? Of you cant pass driving test then there’s no reason for you behind the wheels, same thing here, no ID no voting....is that too much to ask??? How can you proved its me if I cannot show proof???
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 26 of 43
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 800member
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Good for India! We're talking about GOP efforts to suppress voters here in the Good Ol' US of A. These recent efforts mirror the suppression of Black voters from the 50s and 60s -- although those efforts continued in earnest well into the 80s. They mandate voters have IDs and then make it almost impossible or expensive to obtain these IDs. It's a modern-day Poll Tax and blatant racism. It has the residue effect of hurting white voters, but mostly Democractic-leaning constituencies: younger voters (no Student IDs allowed), the elderly (friendly fire/collateral damage as older voters lean GOP) and working class voters that can't afford the price or efforts to obtain documents to in order to get restricted forms of ID.
    Driver's license serves fine.  Not a driver? In Florida the cost for an official non-driving photo-ID is $25.00, and valid for 8 years. Requires no more time than going to get your DL.  Homeless? The state may waive that fee if you are. Hardly cost-prohibitive then do you think?  
    You ever sit in the Palm Beach County DMV on Congress Ave? People are born, live and die in there before they get to the counter! Thank God we don’t live them any longer. 
    ronn
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 27 of 43
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Good for India! We're talking about GOP efforts to suppress voters here in the Good Ol' US of A. These recent efforts mirror the suppression of Black voters from the 50s and 60s -- although those efforts continued in earnest well into the 80s. They mandate voters have IDs and then make it almost impossible or expensive to obtain these IDs. It's a modern-day Poll Tax and blatant racism. It has the residue effect of hurting white voters, but mostly Democractic-leaning constituencies: younger voters (no Student IDs allowed), the elderly (friendly fire/collateral damage as older voters lean GOP) and working class voters that can't afford the price or efforts to obtain documents to in order to get restricted forms of ID.
    Driver's license serves fine.  Not a driver? In Florida the cost for an official non-driving photo-ID is $25.00, and valid for 8 years. Requires no more time than going to get your DL.  Homeless? The state may waive that fee if you are. Hardly cost-prohibitive then do you think?  
    Florida allows 12 different forms of ID. But that's because there was a fierce fight to ensure that new ID requirements weren't restrictive. I suspect that the larger percentage of older voters in FL scared away harsher ID laws. Of course, FL suppresses voters in other ways: voter purges that use wholly inaccurate voter rolls, felon disenfranchisement, decreasing early voting days nearly in half and lack of resources in certain polling districts (wanna take a guess what communities those are?).

    North Carolina is a perfect example of voter suppression targeting Black, Latino and student groups. They have limited IDs allowed for voting. Essentially a driver's license was mandated and then the state closed the vast majority of DMV offices in Black communities and the ones that remained had extremely limited hours. They disallowed student IDs from non-state colleges/universities, then all student IDs. They decimated early voting. Before they did all of this, they studied how groups voted and went after everything that benefited Black, Latino and student voting. They admitted it. Court have ruled that they went after Black and Democratic voters with precision. Restrictive voter ID laws are blatantly racist. These restrictive ID laws were chiefly motivated to suppress the Black vote in Texas, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Virginia and others.
    How do you suggest reliable citizenship and eligibility to vote be established? Related to that is the rationale for Real-ID valid in your opinion?
    You brought up Florida. The reliable and fair solution there was fought tooth and nail, allowing non-restrictive voter IDs. The non-drivers ID fee is reasonable only because it was fought for tooth and nail. It's valid for a decent amount of time only because that was fought for tooth and nail. And indigent individuals may (why not guaranteed?) get a free ID because it was fought for tooth and nail. And remember, there are 11 other forms of ID allowed. Other states have super restrictive ID laws because of racial and political motivations. But remember, Florida went out of its way to suppress certain constituencies after failing to implement stricter ID laws though.
    Yeh, and for this election Georgia is shutting down 7 of the 9 voting sites in a county that is 60% black.   We need to get rid of those who would use voter suppression to subvert our democracy. 
    No I don't think so. AFAIK that was voted down by the county.
    I hadn't hear that.   But I find it likely once the scheme was made public on national news.   But, the point remains:  suppress votes to favor your candidate anyway you can.  They won't stop until we make them stop.
    ronn
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 28 of 43
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    Kuyangkoh said:
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Good for India! We're talking about GOP efforts to suppress voters here in the Good Ol' US of A. These recent efforts mirror the suppression of Black voters from the 50s and 60s -- although those efforts continued in earnest well into the 80s. They mandate voters have IDs and then make it almost impossible or expensive to obtain these IDs. It's a modern-day Poll Tax and blatant racism. It has the residue effect of hurting white voters, but mostly Democractic-leaning constituencies: younger voters (no Student IDs allowed), the elderly (friendly fire/collateral damage as older voters lean GOP) and working class voters that can't afford the price or efforts to obtain documents to in order to get restricted forms of ID.
    Driver's license serves fine.  Not a driver? In Florida the cost for an official non-driving photo-ID is $25.00, and valid for 8 years. Requires no more time than going to get your DL.  Homeless? The state may waive that fee if you are. Hardly cost-prohibitive then do you think?  
    How hard it is to get an ID or Drivers license?? Of you cant pass driving test then there’s no reason for you behind the wheels, same thing here, no ID no voting....is that too much to ask??? How can you proved its me if I cannot show proof???
    You can rationalize it anyway you want.   But the intent of these things is clearly to suppress vote counts in specific demographics.  And, in many elections, particularly local ones, all it takes is a few people not being able to vote to change the results of an election.
    ronn
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 29 of 43
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Good for India! We're talking about GOP efforts to suppress voters here in the Good Ol' US of A. These recent efforts mirror the suppression of Black voters from the 50s and 60s -- although those efforts continued in earnest well into the 80s. They mandate voters have IDs and then make it almost impossible or expensive to obtain these IDs. It's a modern-day Poll Tax and blatant racism. It has the residue effect of hurting white voters, but mostly Democractic-leaning constituencies: younger voters (no Student IDs allowed), the elderly (friendly fire/collateral damage as older voters lean GOP) and working class voters that can't afford the price or efforts to obtain documents to in order to get restricted forms of ID.
    Driver's license serves fine.  Not a driver? In Florida the cost for an official non-driving photo-ID is $25.00, and valid for 8 years. Requires no more time than going to get your DL.  Homeless? The state may waive that fee if you are. Hardly cost-prohibitive then do you think?  
    I'm curious what percentage of the population which is "homeless" actually votes.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 30 of 43
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,679member
    bulk001 said:
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Good for India! We're talking about GOP efforts to suppress voters here in the Good Ol' US of A. These recent efforts mirror the suppression of Black voters from the 50s and 60s -- although those efforts continued in earnest well into the 80s. They mandate voters have IDs and then make it almost impossible or expensive to obtain these IDs. It's a modern-day Poll Tax and blatant racism. It has the residue effect of hurting white voters, but mostly Democractic-leaning constituencies: younger voters (no Student IDs allowed), the elderly (friendly fire/collateral damage as older voters lean GOP) and working class voters that can't afford the price or efforts to obtain documents to in order to get restricted forms of ID.
    Driver's license serves fine.  Not a driver? In Florida the cost for an official non-driving photo-ID is $25.00, and valid for 8 years. Requires no more time than going to get your DL.  Homeless? The state may waive that fee if you are. Hardly cost-prohibitive then do you think?  
    You ever sit in the Palm Beach County DMV on Congress Ave? People are born, live and die in there before they get to the counter! Thank God we don’t live them any longer. 
    LOL!  Same here, it can be a day-long event.

    Thank goodness it's only once every 8 years. With a clean record they even let you skip a visit to the office and do it thru the mail. 
    icoco3
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 31 of 43
    ronnronn Posts: 702member
    bulk001 said:
    You ever sit in the Palm Beach County DMV on Congress Ave? People are born, live and die in there before they get to the counter! Thank God we don’t live them any longer. 
    LOL. Had to renew my non-DL here in NYC. Took more than three hours! At the express location. Didn't realize you could set up an appointment in advance. I nearly gave up since I have a passport and passport card and an NYS ID via a state educational institute. But I'd rather have two convenient forms of ID that I can carry on me at all times and not my passport unless I'm traveling outside of the country.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 32 of 43
    ronn said:
    bulk001 said:
    You ever sit in the Palm Beach County DMV on Congress Ave? People are born, live and die in there before they get to the counter! Thank God we don’t live them any longer. 
    LOL. Had to renew my non-DL here in NYC. Took more than three hours! At the express location. Didn't realize you could set up an appointment in advance. I nearly gave up since I have a passport and passport card and an NYS ID via a state educational institute. But I'd rather have two convenient forms of ID that I can carry on me at all times and not my passport unless I'm traveling outside of the country.

    I understand it will soon be necessary to carry a US passport for flights from some states within the US:

    The Real ID Act: What Is Going On?
    The Real ID Act of 2005 is a piece of legislation that insisted that state-issued IDs and similar forms of identification are more than adequate to meet the minimum security standards now set by the United States federal government. The problem is that the act itself had an extension that expired on October 10, 2017, meaning that it is no longer valid and could pose significant travel issues depending on where you live and where you might be headed.
    As of January 9, 2018, the following states had Real ID Act extensions that expired in October:
    • Washington
    • Kentucky
    • South Carolina
    • Missouri
    • Pennsylvania
    • Montana
    • Oklahoma
    • Maine
    In order to get past a TSA security checkpoint at an airport in any of these states, another form of identification will likely be required beyond your state-issued ID. This means that you’ll need a passport, a permanent resident card/green card or a valid military ID. This is true for ANY commercial flight that you may be taking.

    https://www.uspassporthelpguide.com/passport-required-domestic-air-travel/

     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 33 of 43
    claire1claire1 Posts: 510unconfirmed, member
    I'm surprised T-Mobile has gone iPhone exclusive. iPhone is making them a killing and probably most of their profits. Apple needs incentives for companies that go iPhone exclusive.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 34 of 43
    ronnronn Posts: 702member
    ronn said:
    bulk001 said:
    You ever sit in the Palm Beach County DMV on Congress Ave? People are born, live and die in there before they get to the counter! Thank God we don’t live them any longer. 
    LOL. Had to renew my non-DL here in NYC. Took more than three hours! At the express location. Didn't realize you could set up an appointment in advance. I nearly gave up since I have a passport and passport card and an NYS ID via a state educational institute. But I'd rather have two convenient forms of ID that I can carry on me at all times and not my passport unless I'm traveling outside of the country.

    I understand it will soon be necessary to carry a US passport for flights from some states within the US:

    The Real ID Act: What Is Going On?
    The Real ID Act of 2005 is a piece of legislation that insisted that state-issued IDs and similar forms of identification are more than adequate to meet the minimum security standards now set by the United States federal government. The problem is that the act itself had an extension that expired on October 10, 2017, meaning that it is no longer valid and could pose significant travel issues depending on where you live and where you might be headed.
    As of January 9, 2018, the following states had Real ID Act extensions that expired in October:
    • Washington
    • Kentucky
    • South Carolina
    • Missouri
    • Pennsylvania
    • Montana
    • Oklahoma
    • Maine
    In order to get past a TSA security checkpoint at an airport in any of these states, another form of identification will likely be required beyond your state-issued ID. This means that you’ll need a passport, a permanent resident card/green card or a valid military ID. This is true for ANY commercial flight that you may be taking.

    https://www.uspassporthelpguide.com/passport-required-domestic-air-travel/

    At least 17 states had extensions for an additional year and several of them have asked for an additional extension beyond October 10, 2018. There are other acceptable forms of ID and a passport card is one of them. If you have a US passport, it would be foolish to not also obtain a passport card at the same. It's a mini passport that can fit in your wallet.

    To the best of my knowledge, NYS DLs and non-DLs are compliant and I have a passport and passport card.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 35 of 43
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    bulk001 said:
    You ever sit in the Palm Beach County DMV on Congress Ave? People are born, live and die in there before they get to the counter! Thank God we don’t live them any longer. 
    LOL. Had to renew my non-DL here in NYC. Took more than three hours! At the express location. Didn't realize you could set up an appointment in advance. I nearly gave up since I have a passport and passport card and an NYS ID via a state educational institute. But I'd rather have two convenient forms of ID that I can carry on me at all times and not my passport unless I'm traveling outside of the country.

    I understand it will soon be necessary to carry a US passport for flights from some states within the US:

    The Real ID Act: What Is Going On?
    The Real ID Act of 2005 is a piece of legislation that insisted that state-issued IDs and similar forms of identification are more than adequate to meet the minimum security standards now set by the United States federal government. The problem is that the act itself had an extension that expired on October 10, 2017, meaning that it is no longer valid and could pose significant travel issues depending on where you live and where you might be headed.
    As of January 9, 2018, the following states had Real ID Act extensions that expired in October:
    • Washington
    • Kentucky
    • South Carolina
    • Missouri
    • Pennsylvania
    • Montana
    • Oklahoma
    • Maine
    In order to get past a TSA security checkpoint at an airport in any of these states, another form of identification will likely be required beyond your state-issued ID. This means that you’ll need a passport, a permanent resident card/green card or a valid military ID. This is true for ANY commercial flight that you may be taking.

    https://www.uspassporthelpguide.com/passport-required-domestic-air-travel/

    At least 17 states had extensions for an additional year and several of them have asked for an additional extension beyond October 10, 2018. There are other acceptable forms of ID and a passport card is one of them. If you have a US passport, it would be foolish to not also obtain a passport card at the same. It's a mini passport that can fit in your wallet.

    To the best of my knowledge, NYS DLs and non-DLs are compliant and I have a passport and passport card.
    Yeh, that's true.   But irrelevant to the voter suppression stuff going on:   the ID act that triggered this was a result of tightening from 9/11 -- not from politician's efforts to suppress votes from demographics unfavorable to them.

    Basically, this mess is caused by bureaucratic bungling rather than political chicanery.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 36 of 43
    MplsPmplsp Posts: 4,066member
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Look at Wisconsin - they enacted a voter ID and had documented cases of people being denied ID's so they could vote; they essentially took a theoretical problem and replaced it with a real one.
    ronnGeorgeBMac
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 37 of 43
    ronnronn Posts: 702member
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    bulk001 said:
    You ever sit in the Palm Beach County DMV on Congress Ave? People are born, live and die in there before they get to the counter! Thank God we don’t live them any longer. 
    LOL. Had to renew my non-DL here in NYC. Took more than three hours! At the express location. Didn't realize you could set up an appointment in advance. I nearly gave up since I have a passport and passport card and an NYS ID via a state educational institute. But I'd rather have two convenient forms of ID that I can carry on me at all times and not my passport unless I'm traveling outside of the country.

    I understand it will soon be necessary to carry a US passport for flights from some states within the US:

    The Real ID Act: What Is Going On?
    The Real ID Act of 2005 is a piece of legislation that insisted that state-issued IDs and similar forms of identification are more than adequate to meet the minimum security standards now set by the United States federal government. The problem is that the act itself had an extension that expired on October 10, 2017, meaning that it is no longer valid and could pose significant travel issues depending on where you live and where you might be headed.
    As of January 9, 2018, the following states had Real ID Act extensions that expired in October:
    • Washington
    • Kentucky
    • South Carolina
    • Missouri
    • Pennsylvania
    • Montana
    • Oklahoma
    • Maine
    In order to get past a TSA security checkpoint at an airport in any of these states, another form of identification will likely be required beyond your state-issued ID. This means that you’ll need a passport, a permanent resident card/green card or a valid military ID. This is true for ANY commercial flight that you may be taking.

    https://www.uspassporthelpguide.com/passport-required-domestic-air-travel/

    At least 17 states had extensions for an additional year and several of them have asked for an additional extension beyond October 10, 2018. There are other acceptable forms of ID and a passport card is one of them. If you have a US passport, it would be foolish to not also obtain a passport card at the same. It's a mini passport that can fit in your wallet.

    To the best of my knowledge, NYS DLs and non-DLs are compliant and I have a passport and passport card.
    Yeh, that's true.   But irrelevant to the voter suppression stuff going on:   the ID act that triggered this was a result of tightening from 9/11 -- not from politician's efforts to suppress votes from demographics unfavorable to them.

    Basically, this mess is caused by bureaucratic bungling rather than political chicanery.
    Bull. Several courts have ruled that the changes were done with precision to suppress votes among certain demographics, while protecting the types of IDs among others. At least three pols said so outright. All from the same party. Many of the extreme changes happened right after the US Supreme Court struck down or modified key provisions of the Civil Rights Act with the Shelby County decision. The dissenting justices -- with Ruth Bader Ginsburg the most vocal and adamant -- predicted that voter suppression would result. And it most certainly has. But Roberts has been trying to limit the rights of the same constituencies for decades and succeeded. The Roberts Court hasn't seen a civil right they wouldn't like to trample on.

    The Real ID Act has been a slow, tedious and financially burdensome boondoggle.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 38 of 43
    ronnronn Posts: 702member
    MplsP said:
    ronn said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. I would not expect DBs guarded better than the existing system.
    In-person voter fraud is miniscule. Voter ID laws are intended to suppress the votes of certain segments of society. There is a higher number of fraud among absentee voting but no efforts to ensure those votes. Probably because certain types of voters are more likely to use that form of voting.
    So India must be suppressing 1.2 billion voters? India has Voter ID.
    Look at Wisconsin - they enacted a voter ID and had documented cases of people being denied ID's so they could vote; they essentially took a theoretical problem and replaced it with a real one.
    The imagined problem saw a handful of actual fraud cases in the entire country among 100s of millions of votes cast the last couple decades. The amount of people that have been denied the right to vote is far, far larger. But that was the purpose behind all the whining and hair pulling. 
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 39 of 43
    gatorguy said:
    MacPro said:
    That article recently about the 17 year old that hacked the MySql databases in voting machines in a training exercise in a few minutes and was able to change the numbers or even delete them was the scariest thing I've read in a long time.  Time to go back to all paper ballots, pigeons for mail me thinks!
    Why is it the scariest thing? The systems were built by people who don't know what they are doing. The scariest thing is that instead of using PhotoID to verify a person voting and keep a paper proof for a vote, people still have troubles accepting even basic validation of the voter. 
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/03/us/elections/how-states-moved-toward-stricter-voter-id-laws.html
    Exactly, except that the same motion in 2012 was described as "restricting minority group voters from voting". I am very glad it is changing and the common sense has prevailed.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 40 of 43
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    ronn said:
    bulk001 said:
    You ever sit in the Palm Beach County DMV on Congress Ave? People are born, live and die in there before they get to the counter! Thank God we don’t live them any longer. 
    LOL. Had to renew my non-DL here in NYC. Took more than three hours! At the express location. Didn't realize you could set up an appointment in advance. I nearly gave up since I have a passport and passport card and an NYS ID via a state educational institute. But I'd rather have two convenient forms of ID that I can carry on me at all times and not my passport unless I'm traveling outside of the country.

    I understand it will soon be necessary to carry a US passport for flights from some states within the US:

    The Real ID Act: What Is Going On?
    The Real ID Act of 2005 is a piece of legislation that insisted that state-issued IDs and similar forms of identification are more than adequate to meet the minimum security standards now set by the United States federal government. The problem is that the act itself had an extension that expired on October 10, 2017, meaning that it is no longer valid and could pose significant travel issues depending on where you live and where you might be headed.
    As of January 9, 2018, the following states had Real ID Act extensions that expired in October:
    • Washington
    • Kentucky
    • South Carolina
    • Missouri
    • Pennsylvania
    • Montana
    • Oklahoma
    • Maine
    In order to get past a TSA security checkpoint at an airport in any of these states, another form of identification will likely be required beyond your state-issued ID. This means that you’ll need a passport, a permanent resident card/green card or a valid military ID. This is true for ANY commercial flight that you may be taking.

    https://www.uspassporthelpguide.com/passport-required-domestic-air-travel/

    At least 17 states had extensions for an additional year and several of them have asked for an additional extension beyond October 10, 2018. There are other acceptable forms of ID and a passport card is one of them. If you have a US passport, it would be foolish to not also obtain a passport card at the same. It's a mini passport that can fit in your wallet.

    To the best of my knowledge, NYS DLs and non-DLs are compliant and I have a passport and passport card.
    Yeh, that's true.   But irrelevant to the voter suppression stuff going on:   the ID act that triggered this was a result of tightening from 9/11 -- not from politician's efforts to suppress votes from demographics unfavorable to them.

    Basically, this mess is caused by bureaucratic bungling rather than political chicanery.
    Bull. Several courts have ruled that the changes were done with precision to suppress votes among certain demographics, while protecting the types of IDs among others. At least three pols said so outright. All from the same party. Many of the extreme changes happened right after the US Supreme Court struck down or modified key provisions of the Civil Rights Act with the Shelby County decision. The dissenting justices -- with Ruth Bader Ginsburg the most vocal and adamant -- predicted that voter suppression would result. And it most certainly has. But Roberts has been trying to limit the rights of the same constituencies for decades and succeeded. The Roberts Court hasn't seen a civil right they wouldn't like to trample on.

    The Real ID Act has been a slow, tedious and financially burdensome boondoggle.
    Yes, despicable voter suppression via ID chicanery has been actively going on.
    Yes, the Real ID Act has been a burdensome boondoggle.
    No, that doesn't mean that they are one in the same.
    For instance, it requires PA to replace its driver's licenses with ones less easily forged. But, you don't need a driver's license of any type to vote in PA.  Yes, they are issues.  But they are separate issues.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
Sign In or Register to comment.