Apple focuses on size with 'Illusion' ad for iPhone XS & XS Max

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  • Reply 41 of 46
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,680member
    cgWerks said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    And the naysayers continually fail to grasp the simple notion that:
    1. Apple knows more about their target market than they do.
    2. They are not in Apple's target market.
    Maybe... but then who is Apple's new target market... and does that correspond to Apple's old mission of making the best products possible, and think different, and creatives, and all that kind of stuff. If Apple's new target market is fashionistas with a bit too much cash and an inverse amount of brain cells, then maybe it's better not to be part of the new demographics?

    svanstrom said:
    cgWerks said:
    We old Apple fans keep thinking about what the old Apple would do.
    On behalf of the rest of us "old Apple fans" I'd just like to apologise, and categorically deny that this person has been elected to represent all of us.  B)
    Enjoy the memojis I guess. Not all the old Apple people necessarily got it. Some bought for fashion and status, I suppose.

    StrangeDays said:
    Ah, the old “I’m FORCED to buy Apple!” trope. Nope, that’s nonsense. If customers are unhappy they can and will leave the iPhone for something else, plenty of articles about people doing it, and nothing stopping them. I know it hurts your world view, but people like the products Apple is selling and the design decisions they make.

    Seriously listen to yourself — you’re describing Apple as an abuser and yourself as a victim. It’s really sad to see you victimize yourself. You're not a victim. If you’re unhappy, take some easy steps and change that. 
    Nope, I'm simply saying Apple changed on me, in ways I'm unhappy with. I have a lot invested in workflow, apps, and eco-system, so just leaping to some other platform isn't easy... nor is it even overall necessarily better. But, to fanboys, I should just shut up and not complain? I suppose I could pretend everything they are doing is awesome and impressive... I mean, just look at the stock prices, those never lie.

    And, I am taking steps to change that, by complaining about what Apple is doing, not encouraging people to buy Apple stuff anymore w/o big caveats, etc. What would you suggest?
    1) It's impossible for Apple to "make the best products possible" because the best products possible would incur excessive costs which take them out of their target market. for example, Sapphire displays would be a big step up from Gorilla Glass in terms of scratch resistance but why haven't they done it? Cost and units producible come to mind so it's won't happen until they can be sure to produce enough quantity to match their needs.

    2) If you think Apple was ever about thinking different then you blindly fell for marketing and it also screams of elitism, which is exactly what Jobs himself addressed when some knucklehead, Apple fanatic asked Jobs about thinking different not too long before that ad campaign launched. Jobs reply was that it's hubris to be different for difference sake—the focus should be on thinking better. If you don't see that with their products today that's perfectly fine, but don't bitch about Apple because your thinking failed to evolve past noughties. 

    3) So now if you have $50 per month to spend on an iPhone with the iPhone Upgrade Program and you like Apple's product offering you're lacking in brain cells? And here you were update reading that I said you were elitist just to have to prove me right.

    4) If you don't know who is Apple's target market at this point I don't think anyone can explain the obvious to you but you can be assured that's not you. Again, perfectly fine. I was once the target market for the iMac and now I'm not.

    5) What's this "old Apple people" shit? Why do you feel your desires should be met over anyone else simply because you believe you knew about Apple before someone else? That's some grade school shit kids do when it comes to bands. At first, people like you, will disparage others for not knowing a band and constantly taking about that band, and then if that band becomes popular you have the very thing you helped to make popular.  Whether you've been an Apple customers since the 1970s or you're fed up with Android and are getting your first iPhone it doesn't fucking matter. While not for me, I'd bet that if @"dick applebaum" would enjoy Animojis and Memojis with his grandchildren. Do you really think that it's about fashion to find fun ways to connect with your grandkids?

    6) Apple did change on you. Everything changes on you. Do you really think Apple was going to stay the same from some pin you put in a year or product? The entire reason they got to that product was because of continual effort. Maybe you should look into why you decided not to change and then become unhappy that the world has left you behind.

    7) What kind of douchey comment is it to say the antithesis of not bitching and moaning to "pretend everything they are doing is awesome and impressive." You'll scarcely find a regular forum member that doesn't have a comprehensive enumeration of things they wished Apple do to serve their specific needs. The different is they realize that their single desire does not a market make so they'll ego with  the best product that suits their needs at a given time. If that's an iPhone XS Max; great. If it's an iPhone 6 Plus; great. If it's moving to Samsung Galaxy S9; well that's fine, too.

    8) Everything Apple has ever done has caveats. It's impossible to engineer something without weighing the pros and cons and then making choices based on those findings. People bitch about the notch taking away some of the display (even thought the design of the iPhone added a whole more display) but when you press the people—are you one of them?—they don't want the True Depth components to go away, they just want Apple to perform engineering feats that aren't possible today for some reason or another. Sometimes, they say that Apple should've embedded Touch ID under the display, but that has the exact same problem.

    9) Despite your bemoaning these are best iPhones that Apple has ever produced. That's inarguable. You may not like the price of them (which is perfectly fine) but you seem to  have this notion that Apple isn't making them better or using more expensive components but instead just raising the price to gouge users through unethical business practices. Maybe that's absolutely true, but i) why would that do that (see equilibrium pricing), and ii) where is your proof? 
    edited September 2018 nhtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 46
    cgWerks said:
    svanstrom said:
    cgWerks said:
    We old Apple fans keep thinking about what the old Apple would do.
    On behalf of the rest of us "old Apple fans" I'd just like to apologise, and categorically deny that this person has been elected to represent all of us.  B)
    Enjoy the memojis I guess. Not all the old Apple people necessarily got it. Some bought for fashion and status, I suppose.
    Yes, as a tech-specialist that's been using Apple computers for more than 25 years I must definitely only be in it for the "fashion and status"; and you are the only one that gets it, because you're so so special, right?

    Do you get a kick out of being this much of a self-centered *sshole, or you do genuinely believe what you're saying? You're acting like an autistic kid that can't handle any change at all.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 46
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member
    svanstrom said:
    cgWerks said:
    svanstrom said:
    cgWerks said:
    We old Apple fans keep thinking about what the old Apple would do.
    On behalf of the rest of us "old Apple fans" I'd just like to apologise, and categorically deny that this person has been elected to represent all of us.  B)
    Enjoy the memojis I guess. Not all the old Apple people necessarily got it. Some bought for fashion and status, I suppose.
    Yes, as a tech-specialist that's been using Apple computers for more than 25 years I must definitely only be in it for the "fashion and status"; and you are the only one that gets it, because you're so so special, right?

    Do you get a kick out of being this much of a self-centered *sshole, or you do genuinely believe what you're saying? You're acting like an autistic kid that can't handle any change at all.
    He’s right, he hasn’t changed.  He’s been a Debbie Downer the last decade or so.  

    Why do folks feed our resident trolls that claim to be longtime Apple fans with a posting history of dumping on Apple products ever since they joined years ago?

    What kind of attention seeking moron needs to whine about a company for years before moving on?  Avon, cgWerks, etc.

    At least Gatorguy is drawing 6 figures ($.000005 per post) from Google for haunting us...what are these guys getting?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 46
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,030member
    Soli said:
    1) It's impossible for Apple to "make the best products possible" because the best products possible would incur excessive costs which take them out of their target market. for example, Sapphire displays would be a big step up from Gorilla Glass in terms of scratch resistance but why haven't they done it? Cost and units producible come to mind so it's won't happen until they can be sure to produce enough quantity to match their needs.
    Oh come on, you know what I mean. Yes, I understand there are design tradeoffs and that you literally can't make the best product possible for everyone.

    Soli said:
    2) If you think Apple was ever about thinking different then you blindly fell for marketing and it also screams of elitism, which is exactly what Jobs himself addressed when some knucklehead, Apple fanatic asked Jobs about thinking different not too long before that ad campaign launched. Jobs reply was that it's hubris to be different for difference sake—the focus should be on thinking better. If you don't see that with their products today that's perfectly fine, but don't bitch about Apple because your thinking failed to evolve past noughties. 
    Again, I think you know what I meant are are just being obtuse. The point of the think different campaign was about people who thought 'outside the box' and changed the world... not people who read the spreadsheets and pie-charts right so as to produce the perfect pop-culture, mass-market device to ever elevate the almighty profit stats. As I've said many times on these forums... they built excellent stuff and the profits followed. Now, they are chasing profits, and building the products to fit.

    No one is talking about being different for different's sake.... that might be iOS 7? I abhor different for different's sake. That's one differentiation between style and fashion, btw.

    And, if I have any issue with the noughties, it would be that I still loved most of what Apple produced back then. Because I'm not onboard with fashion, novelty, and the switch to phones, I failed to evolve my thinking? OK

    Soli said:
    3) So now if you have $50 per month to spend on an iPhone with the iPhone Upgrade Program and you like Apple's product offering you're lacking in brain cells? And here you were update reading that I said you were elitist just to have to prove me right.
    Not necessarily. But, if you're more into the bling than substance, then maybe. I don't think recognizing quality, usefulness, etc. over the frivolous makes one elite.

    Also, note... this isn't a black and white thing, but my complaining about a trend I'm seeing. Of course Apple still makes some great stuff, too. But, increasingly, what seems to be driving things are the, IMO, wrong priorities. I don't own Apple stock, so aside from a bit of excitement that they surpassed Microsoft and became the most valuable company and all of that, I could care less if they hit some peak target market to make the most money vs some smaller market for which a better product would be made.

    Soli said:
    4) If you don't know who is Apple's target market at this point I don't think anyone can explain the obvious to you but you can be assured that's not you. Again, perfectly fine. I was once the target market for the iMac and now I'm not.
    I do care if I'm no longer Apple's target market... or at least that the target market which would involve Apple making the best, most useful products has seemingly changed to a target market that, IMO, means more fashion and frivolous focus. That I do mind, because not only does that mean their products aren't as useful to me, but also that they are having less world-changing impact.

    Soli said:
    5) What's this "old Apple people" shit? Why do you feel your desires should be met over anyone else simply because you believe you knew about Apple before someone else? That's some grade school shit kids do when it comes to bands. At first, people like you, will disparage others for not knowing a band and constantly taking about that band, and then if that band becomes popular you have the very thing you helped to make popular.  Whether you've been an Apple customers since the 1970s or you're fed up with Android and are getting your first iPhone it doesn't fucking matter. While not for me, I'd bet that if @"dick applebaum" would enjoy Animojis and Memojis with his grandchildren. Do you really think that it's about fashion to find fun ways to connect with your grandkids?
    Of course, I'd like a company to make products I like. But, it is a lot more than just about me. I'm far from the only one saying this stuff. It isn't like I'm expecting Apple to build products personally for me. Give me a break!

    An analogy might be modern BMW. Many car enthusiasts aren't real happy about how BMWs cars have increasingly moved from performance roots to snooty luxury vehicles, for example talk about dropping manual transmission options. Sure, maybe this means BMW can sell more cars, at higher prices, to a snootier clientele. But, it would also be sad for those car enthusiasts.

    It's even worse than that, though. If BMW should stop actually producing 'the ultimate driving machine'... well, then they aren't the ultimate driving machines anymore.

    That's kind of like the transition I see Apple taking. They've discovered that the real money is in giving the masses the pop-culture and bling, as those people don't so much care about the carefully crafted UIs and workflow productivity or things like that. If that road is followed far enough, you eventually don't have much of what made Apple, Apple anymore. I could care less if they become the world's first $5T company selling gold-fleck iPopsicles.

    Also, I'm not necessarily against stuff like Memoji. It's fun stuff, and I'm sure if my son had an iPhone X, he'd have fun playing around with it. The problem is when such stuff is the big innovation or takes up more than a couple minutes of a keynote. It's bling, not substance.

    Soli said:
    6) Apple did change on you. Everything changes on you. Do you really think Apple was going to stay the same from some pin you put in a year or product? The entire reason they got to that product was because of continual effort. Maybe you should look into why you decided not to change and then become unhappy that the world has left you behind.
    No, I expected them to get better as time goes on. I expected to be impressed by things in their keynotes. I expected that I'd highly anticipate their new products and probably want most of them.... like I used to do up until around 5 years ago or so. I expected that I wouldn't have to spend more time on tech support for my family in a few years than in previous decades. I expected their software and services to work better, because that had been my past experience. I expected they would continue improving their UIs rather than degrading them.

    Why would I want to change to being less productive? I should just entertain myself with Memojis and pretend life is great? Is that what people are doing these days? (cf. Postman's 'Amusing Ourselves to Death')

    Soli said:
    7) What kind of douchey comment is it to say the antithesis of not bitching and moaning to "pretend everything they are doing is awesome and impressive." You'll scarcely find a regular forum member that doesn't have a comprehensive enumeration of things they wished Apple do to serve their specific needs. The different is they realize that their single desire does not a market make so they'll ego with  the best product that suits their needs at a given time. If that's an iPhone XS Max; great. If it's an iPhone 6 Plus; great. If it's moving to Samsung Galaxy S9; well that's fine, too.
    What has lead you to believe I want Apple to produce exactly what I want... just for me? I'm in pretty good company with many of my wishes and views of Apple. While, yes, people seem to chip in on some things they'd like to see... if people get too far from fanboy around here, they get labeled troll.

    I came here from MacNN after it broke up, and I guess I'm used to the culture there being less fanboy.

    Soli said:
    8) Everything Apple has ever done has caveats. It's impossible to engineer something without weighing the pros and cons and then making choices based on those findings. People bitch about the notch taking away some of the display (even thought the design of the iPhone added a whole more display) but when you press the people—are you one of them?—they don't want the True Depth components to go away, they just want Apple to perform engineering feats that aren't possible today for some reason or another. Sometimes, they say that Apple should've embedded Touch ID under the display, but that has the exact same problem.
    I don't care so much about the notch. I just think it looks kind of silly and was an odd design choice. If I have a beef with it, it might be more than they are including the 'ears' in the screen size spec (which I'd guess is why they made that decision more than anything).

    I haven't tried Face ID yet. It might be fine, though I can think of problematic use-cases (as well as a few advantage cases). For example, if you have the phone in a mount in the car, how do you get it to unlock? It's pretty easy to just put a finger on the touch sensor. Or, I just saw some article talking about the possibility of landscape Face ID in the future... and I was like, what? It doesn't work in landscape?

    Soli said:
    9) Despite your bemoaning these are best iPhones that Apple has ever produced. That's inarguable. You may not like the price of them (which is perfectly fine) but you seem to  have this notion that Apple isn't making them better or using more expensive components but instead just raising the price to gouge users through unethical business practices. Maybe that's absolutely true, but i) why would that do that (see equilibrium pricing), and ii) where is your proof? 
    Well (form factors aside!) they'd better be the best iPhones Apple has ever produced. LOL. I can just see Cook walk out on stage... 'This year, we decided the the whole best-ever thing was getting kind of old, so we degraded the capabilities this year.'

    Sure, making improvements costs R&D and such, but I'll bet it took more R&D to get the original iPhone developed, especially considering the scale of Apple now and then. Sorry, Cook's comments were simple BS. They aren't raising the prices because it is costing so much more to make or design. B-A-L-O-N-E-Y

    And, I'm not saying it is unethical. That's how most producing pricing works, actually. I'm just adding that BS to the BS about 'legacy ports' pile. ;)

    svanstrom said:
    Yes, as a tech-specialist that's been using Apple computers for more than 25 years I must definitely only be in it for the "fashion and status"; and you are the only one that gets it, because you're so so special, right?

    Do you get a kick out of being this much of a self-centered *sshole, or you do genuinely believe what you're saying? You're acting like an autistic kid that can't handle any change at all.
    I've been using them for over 30 years, and am also a tech specialist. My point was that I used to have to defend my choice to buy Apple against all the PC people who said I only bought it for the Apple logo. Now, Apple is working hard to to become a fashion, pop-culture product. And, yes, there were people years ago who bought Apple stuff just because it was the most expensive stuff.... just like there are people who buy BMWs because they are expensive (to impress).

    And, absolutely, I believe this stuff. But, I don't get the comment about change. I've been on the bleeding edge of tech change my whole life. What I don't like is degradation labeled as change, as if somehow change is always positive. I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes...

    "We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive." - C.S. Lewis

    nht said:
    He’s right, he hasn’t changed.  He’s been a Debbie Downer the last decade or so.  

    Why do folks feed our resident trolls that claim to be longtime Apple fans with a posting history of dumping on Apple products ever since they joined years ago?

    What kind of attention seeking moron needs to whine about a company for years before moving on?  Avon, cgWerks, etc.

    At least Gatorguy is drawing 6 figures ($.000005 per post) from Google for haunting us...what are these guys getting?
    You haven't known me long enough to have any clue what you're talking about.
    I haven't even been around here 2 years yet.

    I was maybe starting to have a few qualms about Apple in the years following Steve's death, but at that time, I was still defending the idea that Steve had to be too deep in Apple's DNA for it to so radically change, or be 'doomed.' It wasn't until maybe 4 or 5 years ago that I started to get pretty critical with Apple's new direction. I'm also hardly alone in these thoughts.

    Claim to be long-time Apple fans? Wanna make a bet?

    How about someone who's life revolved quite a bit around Apple, and who once considered himself an Apple-evangelist... who'd like to see the relationship flourish rather than break up?

    What do I (we) get? Increasingly good question. I had been enjoying conversation here and learning, but as it is becoming more apparent that if you're not a fanboy, you get labeled a troll and ignored... again, good question. I guess we get to chuckle at seeing fanboys drool all over themselves about even the most lame of Apple decisions.
  • Reply 45 of 46
    DHardyDHardy Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Plagiarize much... try listening to Glory Box by Portishead and tell me what you think?
  • Reply 46 of 46
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,680member
    DHardy said:
    Plagiarize much... try listening to Glory Box by Portishead and tell me what you think?
    Using a sample from another song isn't plagiarizing if they obtained rights to it.… unless you think that Portishead plagiarized from Issac Hayes and I don't recall a lawsuit from Hayes.

    The real question is why you think that a completely different song by Snoh Aalegra would have plagiarized (not obtained rights for a sample) from Portishead instead of obtaining rights from the creator?

    Personally, this is my favorite song using the sample from Hayes "Ike's Rap 2" from 1972.



    PS: There are other songs that have used this sample over the years.
    edited September 2018
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