Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?
"Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits.
2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.
Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.
The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are
i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done
ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.
iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.
The point isn't to reflect negatively on Apple but to highlight the reality. To show another perspective. Yes, figures can be misleading. That is why I shone some light on the original presentation of this news.
We now have over three years without any real change in this area. In fact these figures are the lowest of the last three years and if Samsung has dropped, and that is pointed out, then Apple dropping is also noteworthy IMO. If there is a Q2 trend to point out more than any other it is precisely that Apple is, at best, simply not where some people here persistently claim they always are. The details are lost on those people. Just like they are when Apple's Q1 numbers come in and people forget they represent a peak during Apple's annual cycle and that competitors don't operate in the same way.
In fact, flat growth and lowest Q2 profit percentage in three years, even with the iPhone X in the numbers, shows that competitors have clawed back huge chunks of the profit pie - even with Apple's 'most popular phone' being its most expensive. If Samsung is down, it doesn't automatically swing numbers in Apple's favour because we now have the Chinese block to consider and they are a wedge that squeezes both Samsung and Apple.
However, while all of this is happening, my bigger beef was with the 'profit share is news' premise itself. Who had the largest share in profits is irrelevant. As long as profits are made and products can be developed successfully, who has the largest share is virtually anecdotal.
No truer than today where Apple is lacking in key handset areas and this aspect isn't news anymore.
The P20 Pro stole the show this year. Few people can dispute this.
The Mate 10 for example can reverse charge devices. With more and more battery charged accessories it's a cool feature to have. That product is a year old now.
Apple was late to wireless charging and it was extra slow when it finally arrived. The Air Power solution has hit obstacles but now we have Huawei rumours pointing to the Mate 20 wirelessly reverse charging accessories (wireless ear buds in this case). If true, that's a cool option to have. The wired charging will reportedly see an 80% increase in its power rating too. We already know what Apple will have right through to September 2019 and in technology terms it will likely struggle again this year too.
You have pigeonholed Apple into being a smartphone maker; they are more than that.
The article below is an excellent illumination of what Apple is, hence why I'm convinced that the Android OS marketplace is both zero sum, and non growth, just as you are sure that Apple is long term going to suffer "flat" unit sales.
While the Chinese Android OS device makers are cutting out all stops to growth in higher ASP smartphones, Apple has already laid the groundwork for what follows, and they have the software, hardware, technology, and resources, not to mention funding, to go to the next big thing.
I'm not pigeon holing Apple as I frequently go out of my way to make it clear I am referring to the handset business.
I have gone on record saying that we are now IMO probably in a post iPhone era (in company terms) and seeing Apple try to reduce its revenue dependence on phones.
That in itself is a tacit admission of Apple's business beyond iPhone. That said, its business is currently still very rooted in iPhone. Any fluctuation in that business automatically has a negative effect on the company.
Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?
"Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits.
2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.
Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.
The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are
i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done
ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.
iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.
The point isn't to reflect negatively on Apple but to highlight the reality. To show another perspective. Yes, figures can be misleading. That is why I shone some light on the original presentation of this news.
We now have over three years without any real change in this area. In fact these figures are the lowest of the last three years and if Samsung has dropped, and that is pointed out, then Apple dropping is also noteworthy IMO. If there is a Q2 trend to point out more than any other it is precisely that Apple is, at best, simply not where some people here persistently claim they always are. The details are lost on those people. Just like they are when Apple's Q1 numbers come in and people forget they represent a peak during Apple's annual cycle and that competitors don't operate in the same way.
In fact, flat growth and lowest Q2 profit percentage in three years, even with the iPhone X in the numbers, shows that competitors have clawed back huge chunks of the profit pie - even with Apple's 'most popular phone' being its most expensive. If Samsung is down, it doesn't automatically swing numbers in Apple's favour because we now have the Chinese block to consider and they are a wedge that squeezes both Samsung and Apple.
However, while all of this is happening, my bigger beef was with the 'profit share is news' premise itself. Who had the largest share in profits is irrelevant. As long as profits are made and products can be developed successfully, who has the largest share is virtually anecdotal.
No truer than today where Apple is lacking in key handset areas and this aspect isn't news anymore.
The P20 Pro stole the show this year. Few people can dispute this.
The Mate 10 for example can reverse charge devices. With more and more battery charged accessories it's a cool feature to have. That product is a year old now.
Apple was late to wireless charging and it was extra slow when it finally arrived. The Air Power solution has hit obstacles but now we have Huawei rumours pointing to the Mate 20 wirelessly reverse charging accessories (wireless ear buds in this case). If true, that's a cool option to have. The wired charging will reportedly see an 80% increase in its power rating too. We already know what Apple will have right through to September 2019 and in technology terms it will likely struggle again this year too.
You have pigeonholed Apple into being a smartphone maker; they are more than that.
The article below is an excellent illumination of what Apple is, hence why I'm convinced that the Android OS marketplace is both zero sum, and non growth, just as you are sure that Apple is long term going to suffer "flat" unit sales.
While the Chinese Android OS device makers are cutting out all stops to growth in higher ASP smartphones, Apple has already laid the groundwork for what follows, and they have the software, hardware, technology, and resources, not to mention funding, to go to the next big thing.
I'm not pigeon holing Apple as I frequently go out of my way to make it clear I am referring to the handset business.
I have gone on record saying that we are now IMO probably in a post iPhone era (in company terms) and seeing Apple try to reduce its revenue dependence on phones.
That in itself is a tacit admission of Apple's business beyond iPhone. That said, its business is currently still very rooted in iPhone. Any fluctuation in that business automatically has a negative effect on the company.
You really can't comprehend that the Android OS device business is flat for unit sales. There is no low hanging fruit for Huawei; they will have to compete with Samsung, plus the other OEM's on price and features, which is going to be very difficult in a zero sum market.
Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?
"Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits.
2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.
Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.
The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are
i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done
ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.
iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.
The point isn't to reflect negatively on Apple but to highlight the reality. To show another perspective. Yes, figures can be misleading. That is why I shone some light on the original presentation of this news.
We now have over three years without any real change in this area. In fact these figures are the lowest of the last three years and if Samsung has dropped, and that is pointed out, then Apple dropping is also noteworthy IMO. If there is a Q2 trend to point out more than any other it is precisely that Apple is, at best, simply not where some people here persistently claim they always are. The details are lost on those people. Just like they are when Apple's Q1 numbers come in and people forget they represent a peak during Apple's annual cycle and that competitors don't operate in the same way.
In fact, flat growth and lowest Q2 profit percentage in three years, even with the iPhone X in the numbers, shows that competitors have clawed back huge chunks of the profit pie - even with Apple's 'most popular phone' being its most expensive. If Samsung is down, it doesn't automatically swing numbers in Apple's favour because we now have the Chinese block to consider and they are a wedge that squeezes both Samsung and Apple.
However, while all of this is happening, my bigger beef was with the 'profit share is news' premise itself. Who had the largest share in profits is irrelevant. As long as profits are made and products can be developed successfully, who has the largest share is virtually anecdotal.
No truer than today where Apple is lacking in key handset areas and this aspect isn't news anymore.
The P20 Pro stole the show this year. Few people can dispute this.
The Mate 10 for example can reverse charge devices. With more and more battery charged accessories it's a cool feature to have. That product is a year old now.
Apple was late to wireless charging and it was extra slow when it finally arrived. The Air Power solution has hit obstacles but now we have Huawei rumours pointing to the Mate 20 wirelessly reverse charging accessories (wireless ear buds in this case). If true, that's a cool option to have. The wired charging will reportedly see an 80% increase in its power rating too. We already know what Apple will have right through to September 2019 and in technology terms it will likely struggle again this year too.
You have pigeonholed Apple into being a smartphone maker; they are more than that.
The article below is an excellent illumination of what Apple is, hence why I'm convinced that the Android OS marketplace is both zero sum, and non growth, just as you are sure that Apple is long term going to suffer "flat" unit sales.
While the Chinese Android OS device makers are cutting out all stops to growth in higher ASP smartphones, Apple has already laid the groundwork for what follows, and they have the software, hardware, technology, and resources, not to mention funding, to go to the next big thing.
I'm not pigeon holing Apple as I frequently go out of my way to make it clear I am referring to the handset business.
I have gone on record saying that we are now IMO probably in a post iPhone era (in company terms) and seeing Apple try to reduce its revenue dependence on phones.
That in itself is a tacit admission of Apple's business beyond iPhone. That said, its business is currently still very rooted in iPhone. Any fluctuation in that business automatically has a negative effect on the company.
You really can't comprehend that the Android OS device business is flat for unit sales. There is no low hanging fruit for Huawei; they will have to compete with Samsung, plus the other OEM's on price and features, which is going to be very difficult in a zero sum market.
Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?
"Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits.
2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.
Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.
The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are
i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done
ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.
iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.
The point isn't to reflect negatively on Apple but to highlight the reality. To show another perspective. Yes, figures can be misleading. That is why I shone some light on the original presentation of this news.
We now have over three years without any real change in this area. In fact these figures are the lowest of the last three years and if Samsung has dropped, and that is pointed out, then Apple dropping is also noteworthy IMO. If there is a Q2 trend to point out more than any other it is precisely that Apple is, at best, simply not where some people here persistently claim they always are. The details are lost on those people. Just like they are when Apple's Q1 numbers come in and people forget they represent a peak during Apple's annual cycle and that competitors don't operate in the same way.
In fact, flat growth and lowest Q2 profit percentage in three years, even with the iPhone X in the numbers, shows that competitors have clawed back huge chunks of the profit pie - even with Apple's 'most popular phone' being its most expensive. If Samsung is down, it doesn't automatically swing numbers in Apple's favour because we now have the Chinese block to consider and they are a wedge that squeezes both Samsung and Apple.
However, while all of this is happening, my bigger beef was with the 'profit share is news' premise itself. Who had the largest share in profits is irrelevant. As long as profits are made and products can be developed successfully, who has the largest share is virtually anecdotal.
No truer than today where Apple is lacking in key handset areas and this aspect isn't news anymore.
The P20 Pro stole the show this year. Few people can dispute this.
The Mate 10 for example can reverse charge devices. With more and more battery charged accessories it's a cool feature to have. That product is a year old now.
Apple was late to wireless charging and it was extra slow when it finally arrived. The Air Power solution has hit obstacles but now we have Huawei rumours pointing to the Mate 20 wirelessly reverse charging accessories (wireless ear buds in this case). If true, that's a cool option to have. The wired charging will reportedly see an 80% increase in its power rating too. We already know what Apple will have right through to September 2019 and in technology terms it will likely struggle again this year too.
You have pigeonholed Apple into being a smartphone maker; they are more than that.
The article below is an excellent illumination of what Apple is, hence why I'm convinced that the Android OS marketplace is both zero sum, and non growth, just as you are sure that Apple is long term going to suffer "flat" unit sales.
While the Chinese Android OS device makers are cutting out all stops to growth in higher ASP smartphones, Apple has already laid the groundwork for what follows, and they have the software, hardware, technology, and resources, not to mention funding, to go to the next big thing.
I'm not pigeon holing Apple as I frequently go out of my way to make it clear I am referring to the handset business.
I have gone on record saying that we are now IMO probably in a post iPhone era (in company terms) and seeing Apple try to reduce its revenue dependence on phones.
That in itself is a tacit admission of Apple's business beyond iPhone. That said, its business is currently still very rooted in iPhone. Any fluctuation in that business automatically has a negative effect on the company.
You really can't comprehend that the Android OS device business is flat for unit sales. There is no low hanging fruit for Huawei; they will have to compete with Samsung, plus the other OEM's on price and features, which is going to be very difficult in a zero sum market.
So why does the Mate RS exist?
Huawei competes with everybody. Including Apple.
"After declining 0.3% in 2017, the worldwide smartphone market is expected to contract again in 2018 before returning to growth in 2019 and beyond. According to the International Data Corporation (IDC) Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker, smartphone shipments are forecast to drop 0.2% in 2018 to 1.462 billion units, which is down from 1.465 billion in 2017 and 1.469 billion in 2016. Looking further out, IDC expects the market is to grow roughly 3% annually from 2019 onwards with worldwide shipment volume reaching 1.654 billion in 2022 and a five year compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 2.5%."
"Android: Android's smartphone share will hover around 85% share throughout the forecast. Volumes are expected to grow at a five-year CAGR of 2.4%, with shipments approaching 1.41 billion in 2022."
It's a zero sum game over the next few years. Hwawei may wish they really competed with Apple but in reality they compete with Samsung for Android share. While android ASPs are rising its modest in amount even if high in percentage. We're talking going from $235 to $262.
Any significant share will be taken from Samsung and not Apple.
Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?
"Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits.
2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.
Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.
The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are
i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done
ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.
iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.
The point isn't to reflect negatively on Apple but to highlight the reality. To show another perspective. Yes, figures can be misleading. That is why I shone some light on the original presentation of this news.
We now have over three years without any real change in this area. In fact these figures are the lowest of the last three years and if Samsung has dropped, and that is pointed out, then Apple dropping is also noteworthy IMO. If there is a Q2 trend to point out more than any other it is precisely that Apple is, at best, simply not where some people here persistently claim they always are. The details are lost on those people. Just like they are when Apple's Q1 numbers come in and people forget they represent a peak during Apple's annual cycle and that competitors don't operate in the same way.
In fact, flat growth and lowest Q2 profit percentage in three years, even with the iPhone X in the numbers, shows that competitors have clawed back huge chunks of the profit pie - even with Apple's 'most popular phone' being its most expensive. If Samsung is down, it doesn't automatically swing numbers in Apple's favour because we now have the Chinese block to consider and they are a wedge that squeezes both Samsung and Apple.
However, while all of this is happening, my bigger beef was with the 'profit share is news' premise itself. Who had the largest share in profits is irrelevant. As long as profits are made and products can be developed successfully, who has the largest share is virtually anecdotal.
No truer than today where Apple is lacking in key handset areas and this aspect isn't news anymore.
The P20 Pro stole the show this year. Few people can dispute this.
The Mate 10 for example can reverse charge devices. With more and more battery charged accessories it's a cool feature to have. That product is a year old now.
Apple was late to wireless charging and it was extra slow when it finally arrived. The Air Power solution has hit obstacles but now we have Huawei rumours pointing to the Mate 20 wirelessly reverse charging accessories (wireless ear buds in this case). If true, that's a cool option to have. The wired charging will reportedly see an 80% increase in its power rating too. We already know what Apple will have right through to September 2019 and in technology terms it will likely struggle again this year too.
You have pigeonholed Apple into being a smartphone maker; they are more than that.
The article below is an excellent illumination of what Apple is, hence why I'm convinced that the Android OS marketplace is both zero sum, and non growth, just as you are sure that Apple is long term going to suffer "flat" unit sales.
While the Chinese Android OS device makers are cutting out all stops to growth in higher ASP smartphones, Apple has already laid the groundwork for what follows, and they have the software, hardware, technology, and resources, not to mention funding, to go to the next big thing.
I'm not pigeon holing Apple as I frequently go out of my way to make it clear I am referring to the handset business.
I have gone on record saying that we are now IMO probably in a post iPhone era (in company terms) and seeing Apple try to reduce its revenue dependence on phones.
That in itself is a tacit admission of Apple's business beyond iPhone. That said, its business is currently still very rooted in iPhone. Any fluctuation in that business automatically has a negative effect on the company.
You really can't comprehend that the Android OS device business is flat for unit sales. There is no low hanging fruit for Huawei; they will have to compete with Samsung, plus the other OEM's on price and features, which is going to be very difficult in a zero sum market.
So why does the Mate RS exist?
Huawei competes with everybody. Including Apple.
iPhone and Apple's ecosystem is essentially a separate market from Android OS devices. The leakage between them is small and favors iPhone.
Apple sees very little competition from Samsung, and even less from Huawei, hence why iPhone sales are flat in a flat smartphone market. Even just a glance at the graphs would indicate that Huawei's gains are Samsung's losses. Most current users have settled firmly in one camp or the other so the Mate RS will not appeal to most of the iPhone users.
Note that your wife doesn't want to move to Android OS, but is unhappy about the pricing levels of iPhone. In theory, she would be a candidate for some Android OS device, but it wouldn't be a Mate RS. Likely something lower priced.
Again, the graphs are pretty definitive that Huawei's success has been in the $400 and under category, and not much in the upper tiers that clearly favor Apple.
Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?
"Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits.
2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.
Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.
The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are
i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done
ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.
iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.
The point isn't to reflect negatively on Apple but to highlight the reality. To show another perspective. Yes, figures can be misleading. That is why I shone some light on the original presentation of this news.
We now have over three years without any real change in this area. In fact these figures are the lowest of the last three years and if Samsung has dropped, and that is pointed out, then Apple dropping is also noteworthy IMO. If there is a Q2 trend to point out more than any other it is precisely that Apple is, at best, simply not where some people here persistently claim they always are. The details are lost on those people. Just like they are when Apple's Q1 numbers come in and people forget they represent a peak during Apple's annual cycle and that competitors don't operate in the same way.
In fact, flat growth and lowest Q2 profit percentage in three years, even with the iPhone X in the numbers, shows that competitors have clawed back huge chunks of the profit pie - even with Apple's 'most popular phone' being its most expensive. If Samsung is down, it doesn't automatically swing numbers in Apple's favour because we now have the Chinese block to consider and they are a wedge that squeezes both Samsung and Apple.
However, while all of this is happening, my bigger beef was with the 'profit share is news' premise itself. Who had the largest share in profits is irrelevant. As long as profits are made and products can be developed successfully, who has the largest share is virtually anecdotal.
No truer than today where Apple is lacking in key handset areas and this aspect isn't news anymore.
The P20 Pro stole the show this year. Few people can dispute this.
The Mate 10 for example can reverse charge devices. With more and more battery charged accessories it's a cool feature to have. That product is a year old now.
Apple was late to wireless charging and it was extra slow when it finally arrived. The Air Power solution has hit obstacles but now we have Huawei rumours pointing to the Mate 20 wirelessly reverse charging accessories (wireless ear buds in this case). If true, that's a cool option to have. The wired charging will reportedly see an 80% increase in its power rating too. We already know what Apple will have right through to September 2019 and in technology terms it will likely struggle again this year too.
You have pigeonholed Apple into being a smartphone maker; they are more than that.
The article below is an excellent illumination of what Apple is, hence why I'm convinced that the Android OS marketplace is both zero sum, and non growth, just as you are sure that Apple is long term going to suffer "flat" unit sales.
While the Chinese Android OS device makers are cutting out all stops to growth in higher ASP smartphones, Apple has already laid the groundwork for what follows, and they have the software, hardware, technology, and resources, not to mention funding, to go to the next big thing.
I'm not pigeon holing Apple as I frequently go out of my way to make it clear I am referring to the handset business.
I have gone on record saying that we are now IMO probably in a post iPhone era (in company terms) and seeing Apple try to reduce its revenue dependence on phones.
That in itself is a tacit admission of Apple's business beyond iPhone. That said, its business is currently still very rooted in iPhone. Any fluctuation in that business automatically has a negative effect on the company.
You really can't comprehend that the Android OS device business is flat for unit sales. There is no low hanging fruit for Huawei; they will have to compete with Samsung, plus the other OEM's on price and features, which is going to be very difficult in a zero sum market.
So why does the Mate RS exist?
Huawei competes with everybody. Including Apple.
"After declining 0.3% in 2017, the worldwide smartphone market is expected to contract again in 2018 before returning to growth in 2019 and beyond. According to the International Data Corporation (IDC) Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker, smartphone shipments are forecast to drop 0.2% in 2018 to 1.462 billion units, which is down from 1.465 billion in 2017 and 1.469 billion in 2016. Looking further out, IDC expects the market is to grow roughly 3% annually from 2019 onwards with worldwide shipment volume reaching 1.654 billion in 2022 and a five year compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 2.5%."
"Android: Android's smartphone share will hover around 85% share throughout the forecast. Volumes are expected to grow at a five-year CAGR of 2.4%, with shipments approaching 1.41 billion in 2022."
It's a zero sum game over the next few years. Hwawei may wish they really competed with Apple but in reality they compete with Samsung for Android share. While android ASPs are rising its modest in amount even if high in percentage. We're talking going from $235 to $262.
Any significant share will be taken from Samsung and not Apple.
Huawei competes with Apple as well as every other Android maker. They even have an option to migrate from iPhone when you enter set-up mode on their phones.
Obviously, it competes more with other Android makers in areas where Apple has no presence (certain price bands) and you are more likely to convince an existing Android user to opt for another Android phone (but from a different manufacturer) than an iOS user but there are plenty of potential iOS switchers out there, hence the migration option.
In fact, my entire family is almost 100% Android now. It wasn't always that way.
Today at midday I caught two smartphone ads on national TV. One by Xiaomi (Mi 2, I think) and the other, Huawei P20 Pro.
Last week, Samsung setup a very lavish pop-up centre for the Note 9 Experience just outside Barcelona's main train station.
Xiaomi has established distribution here and Oppo landed officially in August.
Competition is really hotting up and national press regularly paints these new handsets in very good light and often against Apple. There are stories almost every month in newspapers.
Nothing much from Apple at all in spite of the new releases. Those recent Huawei tweets teasing Apple may only be OTT marketing but they send out a simple message that gets echoed. The message sticks. Apple's performance in the EU for example has not been stellar and Huawei has made great strides in Apple's key EU markets, especially the UK:
We will see a spike in Apple's performance with the new releases, just like every year but from there I don't know if the new models will be attractive enough - mid term - in any market with sales taxes. In Spain, with 22% sales tax all the new iPhones have considerable price tags and Huawei has massive brand recognition here, phones that are often considered better and lower prices.
To sum up. If you want any new 2018 iPhone offering, it will be an expensive experience. That is likely to be repeated in most of the EU. In fact, right here on AI, articles have outright described the new phones as expensive even without considering sales tax or currency issues
And rumours say Huawei hasn't finished with its attempts to gain carrier distribution in the US for 2019.
It's a big bet on Apple's part. We'll see how it plays out.
Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?
"Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
Your shallow observation fails to highlight the real story.
There are people here who insist that Apple sucks up ALL the profits of the handset market. If you point out they are wrong they challenge you to prove it. When you give them the links they simply vanish or change tack.
Others claim that Android only caters to the low end market. Again this is wrong but these people insist.
However, being factually wrong is only part of the problem.
The real observation is that Android handsets are arguably giving MORE, through all price bands, for LESS. Often they give noticeably more than Apple handsets.
In that context, why should anyone even care about how much of handset profits go here or there? Why should a consumer even consider things like ASP?
The most important thing is that the vendor can make enough of a profit to continue making better phones. 'How much' profit is irrevelant beyond statistical data.
How much of Apple's profit has simply sat in an off shore haven for years without having any real bearing on its business? What percentage might that be? That's money users put there. That's not how I like to spend my money. You, specifically, claim that your iPhone X was well worth the price. That's your opinion but in the global handset market (given that iOS is a minority player and iPhone X is a fraction of that) your opinion is a minority opinion.
Apple's unit sales have been basically flat for years now but it is fairly clear that the company is simply charging more. And some people simply accept it.
So what's the story in this case?
1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits.
2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.
3. Samsung may be down but the Chinese are up, basically across the board, and showing large gains. How much? Look at this:
But according to this piece, the Chinese just obliterated that record. And in a flat or slumping home market! What does that tell you? Obviously they are blazing a trail in other markets.
But is all that revenue coming off your so called (and quite ridiculous) 'cheap knock-off' phones? Nope. This article puts that idea to bed.
The Chinese are pumping out innovative, supreme build quality, profitable phones. Huawei alone shipped over 10,000,000 P20 Series premium phones in just a few months. The Mate 20 series will launch in less than three weeks.
Apple literally hasn't really moved in handsets in three years. Shouldn't you be questioning if that profit is bearing the right kind of fruit?
Why is Apple playing catch-up in key handset areas?
Apple needs to catch up to your chinese knockoffs? LMFAO. Yeah no.
It's a big bet on Apple's part. We'll see how it plays out.
You say that every product release and its tired concern trolling you've been doing since you've been here.
It's played out every year that you've been absolutely wrong in your predictions. That's how it's played out.
And your link shows what it always shows...android holding around 80% and iOS holding around 20% give or take 5% over the course of years. Huawei making progress in UK is at the expense of other Android manufacturers and not vs Apple. The fact that Huawei has 13.7% share vs 2.7% share a year ago is completely meaningless if iOS share went from 35.5% to 34.9%.
Further:
In China Android claimed 80.4% share in the three months to June 2018 – up by 2.0 percentage points. However, iPhone X continues to be the top selling device, making up 5.3% of all handsets sold – it has now been the best-selling model in China every month since its release in November 2017.
That means the iPhone X, which you also wanted to "see how it plays out" as a "big bet on Apple's part", kicked the the P20s ass in its home market.
It's a big bet on Apple's part. We'll see how it plays out.
You say that every product release and its tired concern trolling you've been doing since you've been here.
It's played out every year that you've been absolutely wrong in your predictions. That's how it's played out.
And your link shows what it always shows...android holding around 80% and iOS holding around 20% give or take 5% over the course of years. Huawei making progress in UK is at the expense of other Android manufacturers and not vs Apple. The fact that Huawei has 13.7% share vs 2.7% share a year ago is completely meaningless if iOS share went from 35.5% to 34.9%.
Further:
In China Android claimed 80.4% share in the three months to June 2018 – up by 2.0 percentage points. However, iPhone X continues to be the top selling device, making up 5.3% of all handsets sold – it has now been the best-selling model in China every month since its release in November 2017.
That means the iPhone X, which you also wanted to "see how it plays out" as a "big bet on Apple's part", kicked the the P20s ass in its home market.
Troll.
In your first paragraph you accuse me of covering my back by leaving things open.
In your second paragraph you say my predictions are always wrong.
Which is it going to be?
I don't make absolute 'predictions'. I give my opinion. I'm not foolish enough to make grand absolute predictions on things we don't know.
Secondly, I have not been wrong.
I give the information and mostly cite the sources.
Your entire comment on iPhone X in China is irrelevant. Apple released just three models worldwide last year. Huawei released over thirty. In China it released many more than three phones. Logically, by model, the less models Apple sells, the more popular they could potentially be. The exact opposite is true for Huawei. What is relevant, whether you see it or not, is unit sales. More than ever now that 'platforms' generate extra revenue beyond the handset sale itself. That's why Xiaomi has over 300 products in its portfolio.
Apple, in China is not doing well. Apple in the UK us not doing well. Apple worldwide has hit a wall. Sales are flat or decreasing.
Yes, Android has over 80% of the mobile OS market. That should be plenty for Apple to take a stab at. Even a fraction of high end Android sales but for the last three years it simply hasn't happened. That is real and that is without Huawei being allowed carrier access in the US. Apple has increased revenues by upping prices and exploiting revenues. You are basically paying more to fill the Apple Pie.
When competitors offer more - and better - for less you have to deal with it. No tri camera this year? No worries. It will be next year (very late next year) but know your competitors have had it for months already and you are a year and a half behind. 3x Optical zoom! The same. You see a picture forming. Gigabit Modem? Last year's tech. I'm sure you don't want me to go on but when you receive your $1,000 phone I am sure at least some people will end up asking themselves if they are really getting their money's worth. And, as I said earlier, if you can't escape a sales tax, the decision gets MUCH harder. The 749 dollar Xr simply slips out of reach of many people. The vast majority in fact.
It's a big bet on Apple's part. We'll see how it plays out.
You say that every product release and its tired concern trolling you've been doing since you've been here.
It's played out every year that you've been absolutely wrong in your predictions. That's how it's played out.
And your link shows what it always shows...android holding around 80% and iOS holding around 20% give or take 5% over the course of years. Huawei making progress in UK is at the expense of other Android manufacturers and not vs Apple. The fact that Huawei has 13.7% share vs 2.7% share a year ago is completely meaningless if iOS share went from 35.5% to 34.9%.
Further:
In China Android claimed 80.4% share in the three months to June 2018 – up by 2.0 percentage points. However, iPhone X continues to be the top selling device, making up 5.3% of all handsets sold – it has now been the best-selling model in China every month since its release in November 2017.
That means the iPhone X, which you also wanted to "see how it plays out" as a "big bet on Apple's part", kicked the the P20s ass in its home market.
Troll.
In your first paragraph you accuse me of covering my back by leaving things open.
In your second paragraph you say my predictions are always wrong.
Which is it going to be?
Both. You concern troll by casting doubt on whether Apple will succeed every year and every year you're wrong. Apple is successful and regardless of your favorite Android maker of that year the market share remains around the same.
Apple, in China is not doing well. Apple in the UK us not doing well. Apple worldwide has hit a wall. Sales are flat or decreasing. Yes, Android has over 80% of the mobile OS market. That should be plenty for Apple to take a stab at. Even a fraction of high end Android sales but for the last three years it simply hasn't happened. That is real and that is without Huawei being allowed carrier access in the US. Apple has increased revenues by upping prices and exploiting revenues. You are basically paying more to fill the Apple Pie.
See you are wrong again. Market share remains at 20% despite your claims that competitors offers more for less and that this will cause a huge problem for apple.
Only so much of the market is profitable and Apple's 20% of unit sales captures 70% of the profit. So Apple IS doing well in China and the UK because folks continue to buy iPhones. Flat is good if you own the lions share of the profit already.
Expending a huge effort to capture a smaller percentage of profits is just dumb and there is nothing for Apple to take a stab at. The "fraction of high end Android sales" is a tiny percent of the total market share and profitability. It's all concern trolling...oh no, apple has hit a wall! Sale are flat or decreasing!
And yet every year iOS market share is around 20%. Prices are increasing but Apple remains competitive in every part of the upper smartphone product segments. The products are so good that they captured 22% of the $400-$600 market with two year old hardware against the very best that Qualcomm and Android has to offer.
It's a big bet on Apple's part. We'll see how it plays out.
You say that every product release and its tired concern trolling you've been doing since you've been here.
It's played out every year that you've been absolutely wrong in your predictions. That's how it's played out.
And your link shows what it always shows...android holding around 80% and iOS holding around 20% give or take 5% over the course of years. Huawei making progress in UK is at the expense of other Android manufacturers and not vs Apple. The fact that Huawei has 13.7% share vs 2.7% share a year ago is completely meaningless if iOS share went from 35.5% to 34.9%.
Further:
In China Android claimed 80.4% share in the three months to June 2018 – up by 2.0 percentage points. However, iPhone X continues to be the top selling device, making up 5.3% of all handsets sold – it has now been the best-selling model in China every month since its release in November 2017.
That means the iPhone X, which you also wanted to "see how it plays out" as a "big bet on Apple's part", kicked the the P20s ass in its home market.
Troll.
In your first paragraph you accuse me of covering my back by leaving things open.
In your second paragraph you say my predictions are always wrong.
Which is it going to be?
Both. You concern troll by casting doubt on whether Apple will succeed every year and every year you're wrong. Apple is successful and regardless of your favorite Android maker of that year the market share remains around the same.
Apple, in China is not doing well. Apple in the UK us not doing well. Apple worldwide has hit a wall. Sales are flat or decreasing. Yes, Android has over 80% of the mobile OS market. That should be plenty for Apple to take a stab at. Even a fraction of high end Android sales but for the last three years it simply hasn't happened. That is real and that is without Huawei being allowed carrier access in the US. Apple has increased revenues by upping prices and exploiting revenues. You are basically paying more to fill the Apple Pie.
See you are wrong again. Market share remains at 20% despite your claims that competitors offers more for less and that this will cause a huge problem for apple.
Only so much of the market is profitable and Apple's 20% of unit sales captures 70% of the profit. So Apple IS doing well in China and the UK because folks continue to buy iPhones. Flat is good if you own the lions share of the profit already.
Expending a huge effort to capture a smaller percentage of profits is just dumb and there is nothing for Apple to take a stab at. The "fraction of high end Android sales" is a tiny percent of the total market share and profitability. It's all concern trolling...oh no, apple has hit a wall! Sale are flat or decreasing!
And yet every year iOS market share is around 20%. Prices are increasing but Apple remains competitive in every part of the upper smartphone product segments. The products are so good that they captured 22% of the $400-$600 market with two year old hardware against the very best that Qualcomm and Android has to offer.
Everything you write is wrong.
I cannot be both! Your logic collapses under its own weight so I'm willing to let readers make up their own minds on who is 'right' (nonsensical in this context anyway) but I will highlight this as an example of what doesn't make sense in your approach:
"Expending a huge effort to capture a smaller percentage of profits is just dumb and there is nothing for Apple to take a stab at. The "fraction of high end Android sales" is a tiny percent of the total market share and profitability. It's all concern trolling...oh no, apple has hit a wall! Sale are flat or decreasing"
Of course there is something to take a stab at! 80% of the handset market! Of which, the premium segment is being driven by Chinese vendors (information you yourself provided!).
It would be far from 'dumb'
Huawei has shipped 10 million P20s. That's one series from one vendor and the model will be live until February next year. Projected sales are over 15 million units.
Start adding those sales up from other vendors. Premium units. Premium prices. Millions of handsets.
There is plenty to take a stab at. The Android premium market is huge.
Comments
I have gone on record saying that we are now IMO probably in a post iPhone era (in company terms) and seeing Apple try to reduce its revenue dependence on phones.
That in itself is a tacit admission of Apple's business beyond iPhone. That said, its business is currently still very rooted in iPhone. Any fluctuation in that business automatically has a negative effect on the company.
Huawei competes with everybody. Including Apple.
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS43856818
"Android: Android's smartphone share will hover around 85% share throughout the forecast. Volumes are expected to grow at a five-year CAGR of 2.4%, with shipments approaching 1.41 billion in 2022."
https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/os
It's a zero sum game over the next few years. Hwawei may wish they really competed with Apple but in reality they compete with Samsung for Android share. While android ASPs are rising its modest in amount even if high in percentage. We're talking going from $235 to $262.
Any significant share will be taken from Samsung and not Apple.
Apple sees very little competition from Samsung, and even less from Huawei, hence why iPhone sales are flat in a flat smartphone market. Even just a glance at the graphs would indicate that Huawei's gains are Samsung's losses. Most current users have settled firmly in one camp or the other so the Mate RS will not appeal to most of the iPhone users.
Note that your wife doesn't want to move to Android OS, but is unhappy about the pricing levels of iPhone. In theory, she would be a candidate for some Android OS device, but it wouldn't be a Mate RS. Likely something lower priced.
Again, the graphs are pretty definitive that Huawei's success has been in the $400 and under category, and not much in the upper tiers that clearly favor Apple.
Obviously, it competes more with other Android makers in areas where Apple has no presence (certain price bands) and you are more likely to convince an existing Android user to opt for another Android phone (but from a different manufacturer) than an iOS user but there are plenty of potential iOS switchers out there, hence the migration option.
In fact, my entire family is almost 100% Android now. It wasn't always that way.
Today at midday I caught two smartphone ads on national TV. One by Xiaomi (Mi 2, I think) and the other, Huawei P20 Pro.
Last week, Samsung setup a very lavish pop-up centre for the Note 9 Experience just outside Barcelona's main train station.
Xiaomi has established distribution here and Oppo landed officially in August.
Competition is really hotting up and national press regularly paints these new handsets in very good light and often against Apple. There are stories almost every month in newspapers.
Nothing much from Apple at all in spite of the new releases. Those recent Huawei tweets teasing Apple may only be OTT marketing but they send out a simple message that gets echoed. The message sticks. Apple's performance in the EU for example has not been stellar and Huawei has made great strides in Apple's key EU markets, especially the UK:
https://uk.kantar.com/tech/mobile/2018/huawei-cracks-the-british-smartphone-market/
We will see a spike in Apple's performance with the new releases, just like every year but from there I don't know if the new models will be attractive enough - mid term - in any market with sales taxes. In Spain, with 22% sales tax all the new iPhones have considerable price tags and Huawei has massive brand recognition here, phones that are often considered better and lower prices.
To sum up. If you want any new 2018 iPhone offering, it will be an expensive experience. That is likely to be repeated in most of the EU. In fact, right here on AI, articles have outright described the new phones as expensive even without considering sales tax or currency issues
And rumours say Huawei hasn't finished with its attempts to gain carrier distribution in the US for 2019.
It's a big bet on Apple's part. We'll see how it plays out.
Shame Apple isn't taking 100%.
Apple Watch seems to be the new 100% category for Apple.
It's played out every year that you've been absolutely wrong in your predictions. That's how it's played out.
And your link shows what it always shows...android holding around 80% and iOS holding around 20% give or take 5% over the course of years. Huawei making progress in UK is at the expense of other Android manufacturers and not vs Apple. The fact that Huawei has 13.7% share vs 2.7% share a year ago is completely meaningless if iOS share went from 35.5% to 34.9%.
Further:
In China Android claimed 80.4% share in the three months to June 2018 – up by 2.0 percentage points. However, iPhone X continues to be the top selling device, making up 5.3% of all handsets sold – it has now been the best-selling model in China every month since its release in November 2017.
That means the iPhone X, which you also wanted to "see how it plays out" as a "big bet on Apple's part", kicked the the P20s ass in its home market.
Troll.
In your second paragraph you say my predictions are always wrong.
Which is it going to be?
I don't make absolute 'predictions'. I give my opinion. I'm not foolish enough to make grand absolute predictions on things we don't know.
Secondly, I have not been wrong.
I give the information and mostly cite the sources.
Your entire comment on iPhone X in China is irrelevant. Apple released just three models worldwide last year. Huawei released over thirty. In China it released many more than three phones. Logically, by model, the less models Apple sells, the more popular they could potentially be. The exact opposite is true for Huawei. What is relevant, whether you see it or not, is unit sales. More than ever now that 'platforms' generate extra revenue beyond the handset sale itself. That's why Xiaomi has over 300 products in its portfolio.
Apple, in China is not doing well. Apple in the UK us not doing well. Apple worldwide has hit a wall. Sales are flat or decreasing.
Yes, Android has over 80% of the mobile OS market. That should be plenty for Apple to take a stab at. Even a fraction of high end Android sales but for the last three years it simply hasn't happened. That is real and that is without Huawei being allowed carrier access in the US. Apple has increased revenues by upping prices and exploiting revenues. You are basically paying more to fill the Apple Pie.
When competitors offer more - and better - for less you have to deal with it. No tri camera this year? No worries. It will be next year (very late next year) but know your competitors have had it for months already and you are a year and a half behind. 3x Optical zoom! The same. You see a picture forming. Gigabit Modem? Last year's tech. I'm sure you don't want me to go on but when you receive your $1,000 phone I am sure at least some people will end up asking themselves if they are really getting their money's worth. And, as I said earlier, if you can't escape a sales tax, the decision gets MUCH harder. The 749 dollar Xr simply slips out of reach of many people. The vast majority in fact.
See you are wrong again. Market share remains at 20% despite your claims that competitors offers more for less and that this will cause a huge problem for apple.
Only so much of the market is profitable and Apple's 20% of unit sales captures 70% of the profit. So Apple IS doing well in China and the UK because folks continue to buy iPhones. Flat is good if you own the lions share of the profit already.
Expending a huge effort to capture a smaller percentage of profits is just dumb and there is nothing for Apple to take a stab at. The "fraction of high end Android sales" is a tiny percent of the total market share and profitability. It's all concern trolling...oh no, apple has hit a wall! Sale are flat or decreasing!
And yet every year iOS market share is around 20%. Prices are increasing but Apple remains competitive in every part of the upper smartphone product segments. The products are so good that they captured 22% of the $400-$600 market with two year old hardware against the very best that Qualcomm and Android has to offer.
Everything you write is wrong.
"Expending a huge effort to capture a smaller percentage of profits is just dumb and there is nothing for Apple to take a stab at. The "fraction of high end Android sales" is a tiny percent of the total market share and profitability. It's all concern trolling...oh no, apple has hit a wall! Sale are flat or decreasing"
Of course there is something to take a stab at! 80% of the handset market! Of which, the premium segment is being driven by Chinese vendors (information you yourself provided!).
It would be far from 'dumb'
Huawei has shipped 10 million P20s. That's one series from one vendor and the model will be live until February next year. Projected sales are over 15 million units.
Start adding those sales up from other vendors. Premium units. Premium prices. Millions of handsets.
There is plenty to take a stab at. The Android premium market is huge.