Apple diagnostics software blocks third-party repairs of 2018 MacBook Pro and iMac Pro

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 73
    stimpystimpy Posts: 13member
    For all of you kicking the non authorized service guys for not going legit, being a authorized service provider I specifically remember my rep. referring to an EXISTING authorized service provider wanting to open another service center. The service reps exact words were referring to WIlly Wonka, "why should we give him the golden ticket for another service location". And this was an existing authorized owner in the top 10% of the nation.  I think theres more to it than just wanting it. You must have an "in" at the top. The Apple promoters here just shouting in favor of Apple need to admit they are plants or get educated.


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 42 of 73
    larz2112 said:
    Once I buy a computer it is mine and I should be able to do whatever I want with it as long as I understand the consequences.
    But, that’s exactly the situation; except that you don’t seem to understand the consequences of messing with the physical security of the device.
  • Reply 43 of 73
    stimpy said:
    For all of you kicking the non authorized service guys for not going legit, being a authorized service provider I specifically remember my rep. referring to an EXISTING authorized service provider wanting to open another service center. The service reps exact words were referring to WIlly Wonka, "why should we give him the golden ticket for another service location". And this was an existing authorized owner in the top 10% of the nation.  I think theres more to it than just wanting it. You must have an "in" at the top. The Apple promoters here just shouting in favor of Apple need to admit they are plants or get educated.


    I haven’t seen any of us uneducated plants claiming that the process for becoming an authorized service place to be perfect and infallible... But whether or not that process is broken is a separate issue from whether or not it’s a good thing with an extra layer of physical security, not easily messed with by unauthorized sources.
  • Reply 44 of 73
    At this point apple is just seeing how much sodomy the fan base is willing to take. In my circles developers and designers are abandoning the apple eco system in droves. Interestingly my non tech friends are lining up to have the prestige of paying a huge premium for the Apple Shiny.

    Don't let the proverbial door hit you or your friends in the ass on the way out.
    There you go. First one.
  • Reply 45 of 73
    viclauyyc said:
    To be honest, there isn’t much left for self repair for MBP.


    That's exact problem. They may actually pour resin and make it block with radiator fins sticking out. I am not sure why exhibt any components if it is non-repairable.
  • Reply 46 of 73
    slurpy said:
    At this point apple is just seeing how much sodomy the fan base is willing to take. In my circles developers and designers are abandoning the apple eco system in droves. Interestingly my non tech friends are lining up to have the prestige of paying a huge premium for the Apple Shiny.
    Yeah, I’d bet a dollar that you’re completely full of shit, as well as every single word of your post. 

    Pathetic troll. 
    Another one upset. BTW h/shee is not a troll. I have the same and I am sitting in major financial company here in NYC. People use Samsungs and skip iPhones if they want and many do for whatever reasons whil company offers iPhones. Stop being hardheaded on Apple and stickout yor head of that small yard. Apple is good, but that is not to say it is always good or the best.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 47 of 73
    cincyteecincytee Posts: 264member
    dewme said:
    Stupidity doesn't scale.
    This is my new favorite line.
    roundaboutnowmuthuk_vanalingamjony0
  • Reply 48 of 73
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 914member
    People claiming this is all about security, but hardware security is completely bypassed when Apple leaves open things like Intel's ME. It's purely to try and get people to buy new Apple gear through outpricing the value of the laptop with a $500 repair. I don't think this will go down too well with antitrust regulators.
    edited October 2018 dysamoriamuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 49 of 73
    larz2112larz2112 Posts: 283member
    svanstrom said:
    larz2112 said:
    Once I buy a computer it is mine and I should be able to do whatever I want with it as long as I understand the consequences.
    But, that’s exactly the situation; except that you don’t seem to understand the consequences of messing with the physical security of the device.
    Yes, I do understand the consequences, but thanks for assuming that you know what I understand. Simply upgrading a hard drive should not need to involve "messing with the physical security" of the computer. The T2 chip is a bit of overkill in my opinion and I think I could survive without it, like I have for the past 30 years. Why don't they just make the T2 chip an added "Super-Duper Security" option when you order a computer and charge a nice premium to those that are extra afraid of the boogie man? 
  • Reply 50 of 73
    zimmie said:
    deminsd said:
    Can someone tell me why replacing a faulty display, or power adapter would require this ridiculous policy?  Display, battery or power adapter are probably the most common items replaced after warranty, have nothing to do with the T2 "Fort Knox" but Apple requires this diagnostic be run if you replace your battery or power adapter?

    Consumer laws will prevail and despite the "do not tamper with label" that is BS and doesn't hold up in court, neither will this.  

    Would I desolder chips to make a repair?  No.  And neither would 99.9999% of people. But I might want a cheaper power adapter or a replacement battery at some point and I have the right to make such repairs myself without being forced to pay a repair shop.

    Maybe it would be best if Apple just welds the MBP and iMac shut so no one can tamper with it?
    The battery and power adapter don't interact with the T2, so they don't require AST2 to be run after replacing them.
    good to know.  Do you know any other devices that’s hooked to T2?
  • Reply 51 of 73
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,094member
    A lot of noobs suddenly posting here today and dumping on Apple. Interesting, isn’t it?
    jony0
  • Reply 52 of 73
    DuhSesame said:
    dewme said:
    No surprises here. To ensure the integrity of certain components/subsystems it is important that the tools used to service these components have intimate knowledge and capabilities that ensure the integrity of the systems is not compromised when repairs are made. As long as Apple provides a legitimate way for service providers to gain access to the required tools I see no problem with this approach. These are nontrivial components with specific system-level configuration and commissioning requirements, not something that can be fixed with a screwdriver and a soldering gun. Conflating this into a "planned obsolescence" conspiracy theory demonstrates a complete lack of understanding for how complex integrated systems like iPhones/iPads operate. Replacing an iPhone's logic board is not like replacing a fan belt on your car. It's more like replacing the engine control computer (ECC), flashing the firmware that runs in the ECC, and running system verification tests to ensure everything is working as planned. Do you think your favorite auto maker is going to give you the firmware, flash tools, and system verification tools to do this in your own garage? No. 

    There will always need to be a balance between "right to repair" expectations between consumers and makers. For example, I could argue that Apple should provide me with the software design documents and source code for macOS so I can troubleshoot and fix a software bug that is plaguing me on my iMac. Hey, why not? 
    Alright I will not gonna question a crap ton of morality here, but as a hobbyist I do like to tweak the machines sometimes.
    I get what you're saying but you are definitely in the minority, not just for Apple but computer users in general.  I highly doubt that most consumers have any idea what a logic board or an SMC reset or thermal compound are, let alone would think about performing their own repairs. I know many many people who have been using computers at work or at home for 25 years who can't explain RAM or a hard drive.  The types of things mentioned in this article just aren't even on their scope.
    The longer I keep the device, the more likely it would run into problems.  What would happen if my warranty is over?  Will I able to replace those NAND flash if they completed their write cycle?  I don’t think AST 2 allows me to do any of that years after.
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 53 of 73
    larz2112 said:
    svanstrom said:
    larz2112 said:
    Once I buy a computer it is mine and I should be able to do whatever I want with it as long as I understand the consequences.
    But, that’s exactly the situation; except that you don’t seem to understand the consequences of messing with the physical security of the device.
    Yes, I do understand the consequences, but thanks for assuming that you know what I understand. Simply upgrading a hard drive should not need to involve "messing with the physical security" of the computer. The T2 chip is a bit of overkill in my opinion and I think I could survive without it, like I have for the past 30 years. Why don't they just make the T2 chip an added "Super-Duper Security" option when you order a computer and charge a nice premium to those that are extra afraid of the boogie man? 
    Ok, so you understand the consequences, you just don't think that they should apply to you because you don't like them?

    I was going to make fun of you for acting like a child, but with that whole thing about thirty years you're more like that oldtimer yelling about wanting the kids of your lawn.

    Just realise that Apple, like all other companies, aren't custom making all their new products to fit all of their existing customers. If you don't like what they're selling, then don't buy it. That's what I do. As much as I can be a bit of a fanboy I just don't buy the Apple products that I don't like. Crazy concept, huh?! Not buying something that you don't want to buy… it's just crazy enough that it might work…
    edited October 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 54 of 73
    A lot of noobs suddenly posting here today and dumping on Apple. Interesting, isn’t it?
    Aside just pure hatred, it’s more like “freedom vs. security” to me.  At least that’s what they intended to be.

    It’s bit off that they completely prevent individual to do things themselves, and it will take some time to see those consequences.  

    That said, I think what we can do now it’s to know what can still be done by hand, and what’s not.
  • Reply 55 of 73
    roake said:
    At this point apple is just seeing how much sodomy the fan base is willing to take. In my circles developers and designers are abandoning the apple eco system in droves. Interestingly my non tech friends are lining up to have the prestige of paying a huge premium for the Apple Shiny.
    Leaving in droves...

    Is that why Apple is trading above 1.1 trillion dollars?

    Maybe you and your friends aren't the ones driving the ecosystem.
    Yep. Apple needs to increase that even more.

    lord knows they don’t have enough money.
  • Reply 56 of 73
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,770member
    The silver lining: This feature will come to the iPhone and iPad pretty soon and that will greatly reduce the demand for stolen iPhones as even the parts will no longer be usable. Probably a good thing but Apple will probably be forced to bless independent repair companies by state law in many places.

    Why don't these "independent" repair shops simply apply to become an Apple Authorized Service Provider? Surely being able to advertise you're authorized by Apple and only use official Apple components would be a big draw for customers.

    I'll tell you why they don't. Because Apple has minimum standards that must be met to qualify, and a LOT of these shops wouldn't meet those requirements. Plus you have to use Apple official parts (which Apple will sell to you). No more cheap knockoff clone parts that offer you huge margins/profit.

    I laugh when some whiny independent shop complains Apple won't provide them with official repair parts (like a TouchID home button), tools to do the work or repair procedures. Well, you know what? Apple DOES provide this to Authorized shops.

    Well, they would effectively be borged, wouldn't they?
  • Reply 57 of 73
    larz2112larz2112 Posts: 283member
    svanstrom said:
    larz2112 said:
    svanstrom said:
    larz2112 said:
    Once I buy a computer it is mine and I should be able to do whatever I want with it as long as I understand the consequences.
    But, that’s exactly the situation; except that you don’t seem to understand the consequences of messing with the physical security of the device.
    Yes, I do understand the consequences, but thanks for assuming that you know what I understand. Simply upgrading a hard drive should not need to involve "messing with the physical security" of the computer. The T2 chip is a bit of overkill in my opinion and I think I could survive without it, like I have for the past 30 years. Why don't they just make the T2 chip an added "Super-Duper Security" option when you order a computer and charge a nice premium to those that are extra afraid of the boogie man? 
    Ok, so you understand the consequences, you just don't think that they should apply to you because you don't like them?

    I was going to make fun of you for acting like a child, but with that whole thing about thirty years you're more like that oldtimer yelling about wanting the kids of your lawn.

    Just realise that Apple, like all other companies, aren't custom making all their new products to fit all of their existing customers. If you don't like what they're selling, then don't buy it. That's what I do. As much as I can be a bit of a fanboy I just don't buy the Apple products that I don't like. Crazy concept, huh?! Not buying something that you don't want to buy… it's just crazy enough that it might work…
    No, I believe the consequences should apply to me. I think I made that clear in the very first paragraph of my first post. Where did I say that I think they shouldn’t, or are you just making things up in your head again? The consequences would apply to me the same way they would if I went swimming in the ocean without a shark cage and got bit by a shark. 

    The majority of data breaches are the result of social engineering and people being careless with basic security measures. I take enough due diligence to protect my data and don’t need a T2 chip. Maybe some folks would feel “safer” with it, at the expense of giving up the freedom of upgrading or repairing their own property on their own. That’s not me.

    As far as Apple not custom making their products, are you joking? You can customize just about every Mac that they currently sell, as long as you are willing to pay 2-3 times more than it would cost you to customize the system yourself. For the right price Apple lets you customize the processor, the memory, the hard drive, graphics card,and input devices. 

    Yes, I realize if I don’t like something I don’t have to buy it. Thank you Captain Obvious. But at this point I have a decent investment in Apple-compatible hardware and software, and I prefer it over Windows. When the time comes to buy a new computer, if I can't find a new Mac without the T2 chip my backup plan is to go with a refurbished system that doesn't have it, which is a more rational contingency plan than "just don't buy it!"
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 58 of 73
    larz2112 said:
    No, I believe the consequences should apply to me.
    Awesome, then we agree that it's up to you to decide if you want to accept the consequences of buying a Mac with its hardware secured, or not to buy it. B)
  • Reply 59 of 73
    The only thing that bothers me is what happens when the hardware is 6 years old. In the past Apple has stopped providing repair service after 5 years. So, are they going to keep doing that? What happens to your iMac Pro when it needs a repair when it is 6 years old?
    dysamoriajony0
  • Reply 60 of 73
    Toyoga said:
    The only thing that bothers me is what happens when the hardware is 6 years old. In the past Apple has stopped providing repair service after 5 years. So, are they going to keep doing that? What happens to your iMac Pro when it needs a repair when it is 6 years old?
    That they’d have a hard time getting away with today; but that issue won’t come up for quite a number of years. Hard to tell what will happen then.
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