After 8 years, IDC admits Apple's iPad is leading the tablet market 'unabated'

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  • Reply 21 of 37

    melgross said:

    MplsP said:
    I just wish Apple would hurry up and make the iOS file system more useable. I got an iPad Pro as a replacement for my MacBook Air about a year ago and after that 6 months of trying to make it work I gave up and bought a MacBook Pro. There are still too many compromises in IOS. If they can fix those limitations the would expand the iPad market significantly.
    There’s nothing that has to be “fixed”. Added to, yes. But business and government users are almost entirely on iPads for tablets. And over the years, a number of companies, and government agencies, have replaced notebooks with iPads.

    so it depends on the use case. There’s no reason why a tablet has to replace every use case a notebook has, just like there are a lot of things notebooks can’t do that desktops can.
    Very well said, Mel. Aren't 600 of the Fortune 500 companies using iPads and iPhones?

    And I'm of the mind if you need to use an iMac, MacBook...fine. And if you like using the iPhone and iPad...have at it.

    I don't think it needs to be 'either or.'

    Most people using Apple products, if they want, can afford both systems. (I may be wrong about that last point.) 

    Best! :)
    edited October 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 37
    hentaiboy said:
    Will be interesting to see if the Xs Max starts to cannibalise iPad though. Steve never envisioned 6.5” phones...
    I think it signals there will likely never be another iPad mini.  I think the other iPads will still sell well as the basic iPad is almost 1/4 the price of the XS max and the 10.5" pro closer to 1/2 the price, being big pushes for businesses and schools and people replacing there netbooks, other tablets. The 12.9" iPad being twice the size and already premium makes it no comparison size wise. Of course I didn't expect the iPhone X to sell so well and in doing so become the iPhones main product line is sales, so I could be very wrong and this makes another one of the iPad models unnecessary for Apple to sell in the near future. 

    hentaiboy said:
    Will be interesting to see if the Xs Max starts to cannibalise iPad though. Steve never envisioned 6.5” phones...
    Apple could make an modified iPhone X-Max without a cellular chip to replace the iPad Mini.
    I hear you...interesting idea. But don't you think that would be a step backwards? I think Apple would prefer all iPads to have cellular capabilities...much like the AppleWatch. Just thinking out loud. :)

    The Apple Watch has a noncellular version, and given the Apple Watch is +$100 for cellular and iPads +$130, there is still a cost distinguisher(that $30 could be from gps as that is the difference between iPad and Apple Watch). The iPod touch is still being sold so there is still a demand for a small noncellular device, but that's 1/5 the price of the iPhone X so thats a major difference too. Since dropping cellular for cost would be the purpose of such a product, they may be more inclined to do it to the XR, it is more in line of what would be useful on an iPad anyways (no need for a second camera, or the 3D Touch). At $600 it would probably sell okay, but I doubt Apple is considering non iPhone products below the 10" screen size range anymore as iPhones are so popular that the cheaper devices being large iPads (maybe MacBooks?, the Air is cheaper than the XS max at this point) makes more sense, but as I already stated I am probably wrong and there will be a different lineup of iPads along iPhones within the next 2 years.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 37
    danvmdanvm Posts: 725member
    thedba said:
    Hi Dan,
    I think there's one more reason why Surface should be considered a failure, that no one has touched upon.
    The potential pool of the world wide Windows users. We constantly hear how MS Windows has an install base of more than 1 billion devices, therefore there should be that many potential upgraders to the holy grail of the Windows world.  Why is it then that Mac is outselling them quarter after quarter with their minuscule "market share"? 
    I think you miss something.  MS has to compete, not only with Apple, but with HP, Dell and Lenovo.  The market share and sales of these three companies is huge.  Dell is the smaller of the three and they sell 2x compared to Apple.  HP and Lenovo sell close to 3x what Apple sells, each.  And most of their sales are with Windows.  So they offer similar devices and most of the time at a lower cost.  Yes, Apple sells more than MS, but still far behind to HP, Dell and Lenovo, with a market share close to 10%.  Plus Apple has no competition for macOS and iOS devices.  And it looks like they already enter the business / enterprises, based in this poll from last year there were on 1% behind Apple. 


    IMO, what MS have done in 6 years in a saturated PC is impressive. 



  • Reply 24 of 37
    danvmdanvm Posts: 725member
    melgross said:

    thedba said:
    Hi Dan,
    I think there's one more reason why Surface should be considered a failure, that no one has touched upon.
    The potential pool of the world wide Windows users. We constantly hear how MS Windows has an install base of more than 1 billion devices, therefore there should be that many potential upgraders to the holy grail of the Windows world.  Why is it then that Mac is outselling them quarter after quarter with their minuscule "market share"? 
    DED got a few things wrong, and one of them was the pricing. While the cheapest Surface Pro is $799, and the most popular is the $999 model, almost all of these are sold with a $140 keyboard. Some people also buy a Microsoft mouse with it too, as the trackpad isn’t very good. Actually, the average selling price of a Surface Pro, therefore, is over $1,350.
    I don't know when was the last time you tried a Surface keyboard, but since the SP4, the trackpad response is excellent.  To bad it's a little small.

    that’s pretty expensive for a Windows user. So most Surface Pro sales are to IT departments that can use these while holding them, even without the keyboard, for specialized software. Otherwise, that cost is a limiting factor. Microsoft has attempted to introduce Surface models that are more tablet-like. That’s is, having tablet software, with a tablet OS, and ARM chips, but they’ve failed. Now they have a cheap model with a 10” screen, but performance is so poor, the reviews have been terrible, for the most part.

    its amusing to think that while iPhone and iPad users are called iSheep, by the crackerjack crowd, the reality is that both are bought and used Mostly by, wait for it - Windows users!

    It makes sense that most of Windows users have and iPhone and/or iPad, since it's the most popular desktop OS, by far. 


  • Reply 25 of 37

    I would think a tablet running an A12X Bionic chip and the right (powerful) applications would simply blow Chromebooks away and even put i5 laptops to shame. Surely, it can't be just the lack of a keyboard that's holding the iPad down in sales. Something must be missing but I don't know what it actually is.  Maybe everyone is buying those cheap Amazon tablets.

    Current iPad Pro already blows away Chromebooks. The only reason Chromebook sales are high is because of schools and their ridiculously low prices. They’re not being bought because they’re actually useful, which is why sales outside of K-12 are abysmal.

    For starters, developers aren’t exactly flocking to Chrome to write software, especially more complex/powerful software. Google now lets Android Apps run on Chromebooks, apparently to increase the number of availabile Apps for users. So you have lazy developers who can’t be bothered to write tablet optimized Android Apps (which is why Android is a complete joke on tablets) and they expect them to suddenly optimize them for an even smaller market (Chromebooks)?

    I wouldn’t exactly say iPad sales are “being held down”. And even though sales did slow down previously it had nothing to do with Chromebooks, the Surface or any other device.
    gilly017claire1watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 37
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,150member

    I would think a tablet running an A12X Bionic chip and the right (powerful) applications would simply blow Chromebooks away and even put i5 laptops to shame. Surely, it can't be just the lack of a keyboard that's holding the iPad down in sales. Something must be missing but I don't know what it actually is.  Maybe everyone is buying those cheap Amazon tablets.

    Current iPad Pro already blows away Chromebooks. The only reason Chromebook sales are high is because of schools and their ridiculously low prices. They’re not being bought because they’re actually useful, which is why sales outside of K-12 are abysmal.

    For starters, developers aren’t exactly flocking to Chrome to write software, especially more complex/powerful software. Google now lets Android Apps run on Chromebooks, apparently to increase the number of availabile Apps for users. So you have lazy developers who can’t be bothered to write tablet optimized Android Apps (which is why Android is a complete joke on tablets) and they expect them to suddenly optimize them for an even smaller market (Chromebooks)?

    I wouldn’t exactly say iPad sales are “being held down”. And even though sales did slow down previously it had nothing to do with Chromebooks, the Surface or any other device.
    Google was working on second major outlet for Chromebooks outside of K-12 but then Toys-R-Us shut down ...  ;)
    claire1watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 37

    Detachables are a real compromise. I have a Surface Pro. It's unusable as a tablet.

    The digital keyboard does not intuitively come up. You need to press a dedicated button to get it up and go down again.

    Using the stylus is a pain and it's almost on par with the resistive touch digital contacts thingy I had 20 years back.

    I use it only by plugging in an external monitor, keyboard and mouse - like a conventional PC.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 37
    danvmdanvm Posts: 725member

    Detachables are a real compromise. I have a Surface Pro. It's unusable as a tablet.

    In my experience, I don't consider it unusable.  When I'm browsing, reading emails, watching movies o using social apps, I see no difference in usability compared to my iPad.  At the same time, I notice both have the same limitations working, for example, with documents and spreadsheets, with the benefit of switching to desktop mode in the Surface Pro, while in the iPad I have to move to my Mac. 

    The digital keyboard does not intuitively come up. You need to press a dedicated button to get it up and go down again.

    Using the stylus is a pain and it's almost on par with the resistive touch digital contacts thingy I had 20 years back.

    I use it only by plugging in an external monitor, keyboard and mouse - like a conventional PC.

    If you detach the keyboard or fold it back ,it will switch to table mode, and the keyboard will appear/disappear automatically.  Or you can do it manually with the Action Center toolbar. 

    And had problems with my Pen too, so I replace it and now it's working fine.  Try with a new one to see if the issues disappear. 
  • Reply 29 of 37
    Hey y'all.  Just had to register here and complement the author on a well researched, reasoned and written article.  I'll be spending more time here.  Thx.
    christopher126claire1watto_cobraspheric
  • Reply 30 of 37
    RichFromIndyRichFromIndy Posts: 8unconfirmed, member
    I was wondering how this article should have omitted one key fact, and then I remembered this is "Apple Insider," and it made sense.  From your own numbers, about one quarter of people with tablets show that they want an iOS tablet.  Still the VAST majority of people demonstrate that they prefer an Android based tablet.  The arguments about "Well Apple makes more" should not matter at all to the consumer.  My tablet experience will not be changed at all by which company does best for its stock holders. The fact is, for some reason, the VAST majority of people who get a tablet do NOT want an iOS tablet. Most want an Android tablet.

    At one time, you could argue "Well that's because Apple tablets are too expensive and people are too poor to pay the price for an Apple tablet."  Sorry, that doesn't wash anymore.  Apple now has a budget friendly $300 tablet. They've had it for a couple of years now, and it hasn't changed that inconvenient truth....that most people do NOT want and do not BUY an IOS tablet. They want and buy Android tablets.
  • Reply 31 of 37
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,567member
    danvm said:
    thedba said:
    Hi Dan,
    I think there's one more reason why Surface should be considered a failure, that no one has touched upon.
    The potential pool of the world wide Windows users. We constantly hear how MS Windows has an install base of more than 1 billion devices, therefore there should be that many potential upgraders to the holy grail of the Windows world.  Why is it then that Mac is outselling them quarter after quarter with their minuscule "market share"? 
    I think you miss something.  MS has to compete, not only with Apple, but with HP, Dell and Lenovo.  The market share and sales of these three companies is huge.  Dell is the smaller of the three and they sell 2x compared to Apple.  HP and Lenovo sell close to 3x what Apple sells, each.  And most of their sales are with Windows.  So they offer similar devices and most of the time at a lower cost.  Yes, Apple sells more than MS, but still far behind to HP, Dell and Lenovo, with a market share close to 10%.  Plus Apple has no competition for macOS and iOS devices.  And it looks like they already enter the business / enterprises, based in this poll from last year there were on 1% behind Apple. 


    IMO, what MS have done in 6 years in a saturated PC is impressive. 



    You have confined your discussion to business purchase, which is fair enough, but the numbers don't really show much popularity for 2 in1's, at all. More to the point, the comments in the link were almost universally opposed to the use of touch on the desktop, ie, a tablet configured with a keyboard, but requiring mixed touch and mouse input.

    I think that the idea of a 2 in 1 detachable is wonderful, as would a tablet with and accessory keyboard be as a hybrid. In practice though, I think most people use a desktop, and a tablet, separately and for very different purposes. 

    Myself, I would be very happy with an iPad Pro with USB C, rumored, as input to a Mac Book Pro or iMac Pro, also knowing that each device on its own, is a pure experience.
     
    Perhaps this is why Apple is capturing the bulk of the profits in each realm. As the iPad Pro gets more performant, and with the addition of some API's, it becomes an ever better hybrid to mimic most of the capabilities of a laptop, but still without compromise as a tablet.
  • Reply 32 of 37
    I was wondering how this article should have omitted one key fact, and then I remembered this is "Apple Insider," and it made sense.  From your own numbers, about one quarter of people with tablets show that they want an iOS tablet.  Still the VAST majority of people demonstrate that they prefer an Android based tablet.  The arguments about "Well Apple makes more" should not matter at all to the consumer.  My tablet experience will not be changed at all by which company does best for its stock holders. The fact is, for some reason, the VAST majority of people who get a tablet do NOT want an iOS tablet. Most want an Android tablet.

    At one time, you could argue "Well that's because Apple tablets are too expensive and people are too poor to pay the price for an Apple tablet."  Sorry, that doesn't wash anymore.  Apple now has a budget friendly $300 tablet. They've had it for a couple of years now, and it hasn't changed that inconvenient truth....that most people do NOT want and do not BUY an IOS tablet. They want and buy Android tablets.


    I would disagree with your assessment. Budget is still the primary reason why most of those Android tablets are selling. There are MANY Android tablets from the likes of Samsung and Lenovo and few local brands with price <$200, which is the maximum budget that many people can afford in my country and that is the primary reason why many Android tablets are selling in my country (India).


    I also came to know another weird reason recently. Few school specific Apps are NOT available in iOS App Store and 2 of my friends (who can very well afford high end iPads) in Hyderabad were buying an Android tablet only for those Apps since the schools use those apps for their kids. It must be region specific, hence the developer did not bother to make an iOS version (99% of people in India use Android phones). But I would assume that would be a tiny minority in the overall scheme of things.

    edited October 2018 avon b7watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 37
    danvmdanvm Posts: 725member
    tmay said:
    danvm said:
    thedba said:
    Hi Dan,
    I think there's one more reason why Surface should be considered a failure, that no one has touched upon.
    The potential pool of the world wide Windows users. We constantly hear how MS Windows has an install base of more than 1 billion devices, therefore there should be that many potential upgraders to the holy grail of the Windows world.  Why is it then that Mac is outselling them quarter after quarter with their minuscule "market share"? 
    I think you miss something.  MS has to compete, not only with Apple, but with HP, Dell and Lenovo.  The market share and sales of these three companies is huge.  Dell is the smaller of the three and they sell 2x compared to Apple.  HP and Lenovo sell close to 3x what Apple sells, each.  And most of their sales are with Windows.  So they offer similar devices and most of the time at a lower cost.  Yes, Apple sells more than MS, but still far behind to HP, Dell and Lenovo, with a market share close to 10%.  Plus Apple has no competition for macOS and iOS devices.  And it looks like they already enter the business / enterprises, based in this poll from last year there were on 1% behind Apple. 


    IMO, what MS have done in 6 years in a saturated PC is impressive. 



    You have confined your discussion to business purchase, which is fair enough, but the numbers don't really show much popularity for 2 in1's, at all. More to the point, the comments in the link were almost universally opposed to the use of touch on the desktop, ie, a tablet configured with a keyboard, but requiring mixed touch and mouse input.
    My point was related to how MS is doing, considering they have been around for 6 years selling devices competing with companies selling 2x / 3x what Apple sells per year.  And regarding the use of touch, it's an option in the Surface.  You can use it whatever way you want. 
    I think that the idea of a 2 in 1 detachable is wonderful, as would a tablet with and accessory keyboard be as a hybrid. In practice though, I think most people use a desktop, and a tablet, separately and for very different purposes.

    Most Mac and iPad users use them as separate devices, because they are . For example, in my Surface device I use tablet mode to navigate the documents I annotate with the Pen, while switch to the keyboard / trackpad while working with Excel and Word.  If I want to browse the internet, I can use the same device in a desktop, in my lap or as a tablet. 

    Myself, I would be very happy with an iPad Pro with USB C, rumored, as input to a Mac Book Pro or iMac Pro, also knowing that each device on its own, is a pure experience.
    I don't get the "pure experience" you mention.  If I want to watch a movie in Netflix or browse the internet, how better is the Surface tablet experience vs an iPad?  I don't see too much difference.  How better is the experience is to work a complex Excel or Word document in an iPad vs a Surface in tablet mode?  Both are awful, but in the Surface I can use a keyboard + trackpad or dock the Surface for a full PC experience, while in the iPad I'm forced to use a keyboard + touch UI in a vertical screen.  The "pure experience" you mention is the reason people switch from devices to complete their work.  BTW, I know and experienced the limitations and compromises with Surface / 2-in-1, but the same can be said of Mac / PC and iPads / Tablets.  Tthere are cases that each of these devices are better than the others.  IMO, what define what is a good device is your workflow and not necessarily if it's a PC, tablet or 2-in-1 device.  Maybe a 2-in-1 device won't work for you, but that doesn't means it's a bad device. 
    Perhaps this is why Apple is capturing the bulk of the profits in each realm. As the iPad Pro gets more performant, and with the addition of some API's, it becomes an ever better hybrid to mimic most of the capabilities of a laptop, but still without compromise as a tablet.

    The Apple profits are more related to margins than sales.  For example, Mac has the most of the profits, but still sell far behind the competition.  And it's true that Apple is trying to make iPad mimic the desktop, but with no track pad, the experience will be awful, at least with what we have today.  Maybe in the future things change.  We'll see. 

  • Reply 34 of 37
    JAK1421 said:
    Hey y'all.  Just had to register here and complement the author on a well researched, reasoned and written article.  I'll be spending more time here.  Thx.
    Hey Jak...welcome. Yep, you're correct DED does a great job....

    He can write about current events while denoting the history of Apple, tech, etc.

    It's the main reason I at this site! :)

    Best

    P.S. Suggestion: On the main page of the articles (when I've signed on), I'd like to see a 'red dot' next to the article, if I've made a comment and and a 'green dot' if someone has commented on my comment!

    That way I can see instantly which articles I had responses too, etc.

    The email notification is not working or very clunky!

    I know, I know, this is a brilliant suggestion. Thank you. :) 

    edited October 2018 claire1watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 37
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,485member

    melgross said:

    MplsP said:
    I just wish Apple would hurry up and make the iOS file system more useable. I got an iPad Pro as a replacement for my MacBook Air about a year ago and after that 6 months of trying to make it work I gave up and bought a MacBook Pro. There are still too many compromises in IOS. If they can fix those limitations the would expand the iPad market significantly.
    There’s nothing that has to be “fixed”. Added to, yes. But business and government users are almost entirely on iPads for tablets. And over the years, a number of companies, and government agencies, have replaced notebooks with iPads.

    so it depends on the use case. There’s no reason why a tablet has to replace every use case a notebook has, just like there are a lot of things notebooks can’t do that desktops can.
    Very well said, Mel. Aren't 600 of the Fortune 500 companies using iPads and iPhones?

    And I'm of the mind if you need to use an iMac, MacBook...fine. And if you like using the iPhone and iPad...have at it.

    I don't think it needs to be 'either or.'

    Most people using Apple products, if they want, can afford both systems. (I may be wrong about that last point.) 

    Best! :)
    Most every company uses iPads and iPhones. And when given a choice, a majority of people in business choose Macs.
    claire1watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 37
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,485member

    I was wondering how this article should have omitted one key fact, and then I remembered this is "Apple Insider," and it made sense.  From your own numbers, about one quarter of people with tablets show that they want an iOS tablet.  Still the VAST majority of people demonstrate that they prefer an Android based tablet.  The arguments about "Well Apple makes more" should not matter at all to the consumer.  My tablet experience will not be changed at all by which company does best for its stock holders. The fact is, for some reason, the VAST majority of people who get a tablet do NOT want an iOS tablet. Most want an Android tablet.

    At one time, you could argue "Well that's because Apple tablets are too expensive and people are too poor to pay the price for an Apple tablet."  Sorry, that doesn't wash anymore.  Apple now has a budget friendly $300 tablet. They've had it for a couple of years now, and it hasn't changed that inconvenient truth....that most people do NOT want and do not BUY an IOS tablet. They want and buy Android tablets.
    Android tablets are dead. Go to any of the Android sites and you’ll read that. Android tablets were never successful, unless you call all of the sub $100 devices sold for toys. Samsung has major problems selling their Android models. Google has been concentrating on ChromeOS instead.

    apple has about a 30% marketshare in tablets around the world, higher here. Much higher here.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 37
    claire1claire1 Posts: 494unconfirmed, member
    melgross said:

    I was wondering how this article should have omitted one key fact, and then I remembered this is "Apple Insider," and it made sense.  From your own numbers, about one quarter of people with tablets show that they want an iOS tablet.  Still the VAST majority of people demonstrate that they prefer an Android based tablet.  The arguments about "Well Apple makes more" should not matter at all to the consumer.  My tablet experience will not be changed at all by which company does best for its stock holders. The fact is, for some reason, the VAST majority of people who get a tablet do NOT want an iOS tablet. Most want an Android tablet.

    At one time, you could argue "Well that's because Apple tablets are too expensive and people are too poor to pay the price for an Apple tablet."  Sorry, that doesn't wash anymore.  Apple now has a budget friendly $300 tablet. They've had it for a couple of years now, and it hasn't changed that inconvenient truth....that most people do NOT want and do not BUY an IOS tablet. They want and buy Android tablets.
    Android tablets are dead. Go to any of the Android sites and you’ll read that. Android tablets were never successful, unless you call all of the sub $100 devices sold for toys. Samsung has major problems selling their Android models. Google has been concentrating on ChromeOS instead.

    apple has about a 30% marketshare in tablets around the world, higher here. Much higher here.
    Yeah I have no idea what he's smoking?

    It's like suggesting more people want Android wear watches than Apple Watches.

    It's DONE.
    No knockoff iPads are gonna take over. Android phones got lucky because they're given away.
    watto_cobra
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