Apple narrows iOS loyalty rate gap with Android in Q3, retention rates at all-time high

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,754member
    claire1 said:
    This contradicts the report from yesterday or was it the day before?
    No contradiction at all if you understand what you're looking at. The "report from yesterday" you saw was trying to predict what people will do in the future. The one in this article is what people actually did. One is a more reliable indicator than the other as should be obvious.
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 22 of 38
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,099member
    gatorguy said:
    dewme said:
    This is just a continuation of a grand delusion that promoters of Android have been trying to foist upon consumers since the Android platform first slithered on to the scene. It's all BS, Android BS (ABS) to be more precise. Profits are captured at the brand level, not the platform level. In Apple's case the platform is baked into a single brand and is irrelevant. There are a whole bunch of branded products that happen to use Android as a platform, but Android is a not a brand. Trying to pass off Android as a brand is all part of the ABS grand delusion.

    Say there are 50 branded products that use Android and there is one Apple. That means you have 51 brands competing for a sale. If a customer buys an LG phone built on Android then exactly one (1) brand wins the sale and reaps the profit and fifty (50) brands lose out. If Apple makes the sale the situation is exactly the same, 1 winner and 50 losers. The core lie in the the ABS grand delusion is that any sale from a brand that uses Android is a win for everyone in the Android camp. That's total BS, unless of course all 50 brands using Android are also sharing the profit from the sale, which we know they are not. Even it they were, the profit share would be tiny.

    Trying to portray Android as a single brand and single profit center competing against Apple as a single vendor and single profit center (which it is) is a scheme intended to make Android appear more competitively relevant than it really is. But profits don't lie, and when it comes to profits, which are collected at the brand level, Apple is crushing Android. If you want to award a "participation trophy" to Android for showing up for so many losing battles, go ahead. It might make you feel better if you're an Android proponent, but it doesn't change the outcome of the bottom-line battle that matters.
    You're kinda right. The tendency here is to lump every not-iOS handset into a big old "cheap Android" basket when that's not accurate at all. There's OEM's that compete well and highly rated, ie Samsung. There's mid-range "hero" devices like the OnePlus 6, carrying a banner for inexpensive doesn't mean cheap. And there's premium handsets from the likes of LG and Samsung and Pixel that ride up there in the premium-pricing territory that Apple dominates. But there's also very good but very inexpensive handsets that make smartphones and the valuable services they provide available to those who would otherwise be disadvantaged, effectively locked out, ie Moto and Nokia. There's those that get regular updates, again from Nokia, Samsung high-end Galaxy's, Pixel, OnePlus, and those that don't. 

    As you say throwing every handset running the Android OS together as tho there's no difference from one to another is patently false, yet here the "grand delusion" is regularly on display: "Android is cheap" or "Android smartphones never get updates" or "Android folks can't afford an iPhone LOL" or "Android users are not as smart as we are" with the occasional bit of profanity dropped in for good measure (as tho profanity must prove it's true)

    So yeah I guess I do agree with you. Painting every Android OEM and every Android user and every Android handset with the same brush might "make you feel better" but it doesn't make it any more true. They aren't the same and that's what's advantageous about it. One or three sizes do not fit all. 
    I agree with your assessment. Lumping all brands/products built on Android into a single homogeneous group does a disservice to the brands that are delivering real value in the target market they are going after. Brands that are killing it deserve brand recognition. The grand delusion cuts both ways. 
  • Reply 23 of 38
    dewme said:
    Is mobile operating system loyalty even a thing? The Android market is flooded with countless numbers of products from a sea of vendors at every imaginable price point and quality level. iOS is single vendor, single brand, and single product line. I personally think this measure from CIRP is total crapola. Let’s see brand loyalty, Apple versus every other brand standing on its own. Comparing one Apple to a sea of Oranges is totally bogus.

    Yes I would argue it is, same with Mac vs Windows. For some the operating system matters much more than the hardware.
  • Reply 24 of 38

    I think Google’s “loyalty” could be reread as, “cheap people are still cheap, some are now aware they use Android.”

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.)
    Man certain Apple fans can be snobs. Not everybody has the disposable income to be able to afford flagship phones. It doesn’t make them cheap. Considering what most people do with their phones maybe the rest of us are morons for spending close to $1K on a phone. 
    microbeelijahg
  • Reply 25 of 38

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.) 
    Then there are the people, like my brother-in-law (who is not a tech person), who insists he won’t use Android because of the privacy issues he’s heard about but is using a phone running Android and doesn’t seem to know. 
    I just checked the top free apps list in the iOS AppStore. #1 is YouTube. #3 is Instagram. #4 is Messenger. #6 is Facebook. #7 is Gmail and #10 is Google Maps.
    gatorguymicrobemuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 38

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.) 
    Then there are the people, like my brother-in-law (who is not a tech person), who insists he won’t use Android because of the privacy issues he’s heard about but is using a phone running Android and doesn’t seem to know. 
    I just checked the top free apps list in the iOS AppStore. #1 is YouTube. #3 is Instagram. #4 is Messenger. #6 is Facebook. #7 is Gmail and #10 is Google Maps.
    I’m not sure how your post fits with mine.
  • Reply 27 of 38
    gatorguy said:
    How do they reconcile these loyalty numbers with customer satisfaction (where Apple routinely scores at the top)?
    Why would that need reconciliation, not that Apple and Samsung's smartphone satisfaction ratings for example aren't already within 1 point of each other according to JDPower.The American Customer Satisfaction rankings a few months ago came to the same general conclusion. 

    The only thing the CIRP numbers are saying is that consumers are extremely loyal to the platform they are currently using and consistently so for the past several years, not that Android users specifically are wedded to the exact handset OEM they're currently using. They're exceedingly likely to stay within Android just as iOS users are extremely likely to stay within the Apple ecosystem. Sure there's switchers, but rather than using a survey that asks a user what their plans for their next phone are, CIRP's numbers tell you what they actually did. 

    No, they’re wrong for using the word “loyalty”. Loyalty would require someone to be a “fan” of something and to consciously make the decision to stay with a certain product.

    What CIRP has measured is actually retention, not loyalty. There are many reasons someone might continue with a product (retention) that have nothing to do with loyalty. To mix up the terms implies that all Android users (or iPhone users) made their purchase because of a deep ingrown desire for the product they purchased. 
    tmay
  • Reply 28 of 38
    claire1 said:
    This contradicts the report from yesterday or was it the day before?

    I think Google’s “loyalty” could be reread as, “cheap people are still cheap, some are now aware they use Android.”

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.)

    I've literally heard this stupidity and couldn't believe how stupid these people were. They didn't know android copied Apple's glass design I guess....
    It isn't really contradictory. The report the other day - assuming we're talking about the same thing - said there was low brand loyalty for Android handset makers but most people that switch from e.g. Samsung, switch to another Android handset. There can be low brand loyalty but high OS loyalty.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 29 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,754member
    gatorguy said:
    How do they reconcile these loyalty numbers with customer satisfaction (where Apple routinely scores at the top)?
    Why would that need reconciliation, not that Apple and Samsung's smartphone satisfaction ratings for example aren't already within 1 point of each other according to JDPower.The American Customer Satisfaction rankings a few months ago came to the same general conclusion. 

    The only thing the CIRP numbers are saying is that consumers are extremely loyal to the platform they are currently using and consistently so for the past several years, not that Android users specifically are wedded to the exact handset OEM they're currently using. They're exceedingly likely to stay within Android just as iOS users are extremely likely to stay within the Apple ecosystem. Sure there's switchers, but rather than using a survey that asks a user what their plans for their next phone are, CIRP's numbers tell you what they actually did. 

    No, they’re wrong for using the word “loyalty”. Loyalty would require someone to be a “fan” of something and to consciously make the decision to stay with a certain product.

    What CIRP has measured is actually retention, not loyalty.
    "They" would be the Appleinsider editor then.

    CIRP used the term "Retention" as noted on the chart. 
    edited October 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 30 of 38

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.) 
    Then there are the people, like my brother-in-law (who is not a tech person), who insists he won’t use Android because of the privacy issues he’s heard about but is using a phone running Android and doesn’t seem to know. 
    I just checked the top free apps list in the iOS AppStore. #1 is YouTube. #3 is Instagram. #4 is Messenger. #6 is Facebook. #7 is Gmail and #10 is Google Maps.
    I’m not sure how your post fits with mine.
    You mentioned privacy. The top free apps downloaded from the iOS App Store come from companies most AI posters have knocked for their lack of privacy.
  • Reply 31 of 38

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.) 
    Then there are the people, like my brother-in-law (who is not a tech person), who insists he won’t use Android because of the privacy issues he’s heard about but is using a phone running Android and doesn’t seem to know. 
    I just checked the top free apps list in the iOS AppStore. #1 is YouTube. #3 is Instagram. #4 is Messenger. #6 is Facebook. #7 is Gmail and #10 is Google Maps.
    I’m not sure how your post fits with mine.
    You mentioned privacy. The top free apps downloaded from the iOS App Store come from companies most AI posters have knocked for their lack of privacy.
    What do iOS apps matter to someone using an Android phone? I’m struggling to find the correlation between someone not wanting to use Android due to (valid or not) privacy concerns and some of the top free apps on iOS potentially having privacy issues of their own. 
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 32 of 38

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.) 
    Then there are the people, like my brother-in-law (who is not a tech person), who insists he won’t use Android because of the privacy issues he’s heard about but is using a phone running Android and doesn’t seem to know. 
    I just checked the top free apps list in the iOS AppStore. #1 is YouTube. #3 is Instagram. #4 is Messenger. #6 is Facebook. #7 is Gmail and #10 is Google Maps.
    I’m not sure how your post fits with mine.
    You mentioned privacy. The top free apps downloaded from the iOS App Store come from companies most AI posters have knocked for their lack of privacy.
    What do iOS apps matter to someone using an Android phone? I’m struggling to find the correlation between someone not wanting to use Android due to (valid or not) privacy concerns and some of the top free apps on iOS potentially having privacy issues of their own. 
    What does it matter if the privacy issue is with the OS or 3rd party apps? People laud Apple for their privacy stance yet the most frequently used apps (and where people spend most of their time) on Apple’s platform have major privacy issues.
  • Reply 33 of 38
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,153member
    Is android ‘loyalty’ just the inability to afford an iPhone?  Or an addiction to choice.
    claire1
  • Reply 34 of 38

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.) 
    Then there are the people, like my brother-in-law (who is not a tech person), who insists he won’t use Android because of the privacy issues he’s heard about but is using a phone running Android and doesn’t seem to know. 
    I just checked the top free apps list in the iOS AppStore. #1 is YouTube. #3 is Instagram. #4 is Messenger. #6 is Facebook. #7 is Gmail and #10 is Google Maps.
    I’m not sure how your post fits with mine.
    You mentioned privacy. The top free apps downloaded from the iOS App Store come from companies most AI posters have knocked for their lack of privacy.
    What do iOS apps matter to someone using an Android phone? I’m struggling to find the correlation between someone not wanting to use Android due to (valid or not) privacy concerns and some of the top free apps on iOS potentially having privacy issues of their own. 
    What does it matter if the privacy issue is with the OS or 3rd party apps? People laud Apple for their privacy stance yet the most frequently used apps (and where people spend most of their time) on Apple’s platform have major privacy issues.
    Umm, downloading the apps you listed is not required to use iOS. Using Android is required to use Android. 
    claire1
  • Reply 35 of 38

    When you ask all but the geekiest of Android users why they don’t have an iPhone nine times out of ten they say iPhones are too expensive. And the timed they don’t it’s normally something stupid like, “my friend says it’s better” or “I had an iPhone and the screen broke.” (Typically their android phone is already broken.) 
    Then there are the people, like my brother-in-law (who is not a tech person), who insists he won’t use Android because of the privacy issues he’s heard about but is using a phone running Android and doesn’t seem to know. 
    I just checked the top free apps list in the iOS AppStore. #1 is YouTube. #3 is Instagram. #4 is Messenger. #6 is Facebook. #7 is Gmail and #10 is Google Maps.
    I’m not sure how your post fits with mine.
    You mentioned privacy. The top free apps downloaded from the iOS App Store come from companies most AI posters have knocked for their lack of privacy.
    What do iOS apps matter to someone using an Android phone? I’m struggling to find the correlation between someone not wanting to use Android due to (valid or not) privacy concerns and some of the top free apps on iOS potentially having privacy issues of their own. 
    What does it matter if the privacy issue is with the OS or 3rd party apps? People laud Apple for their privacy stance yet the most frequently used apps (and where people spend most of their time) on Apple’s platform have major privacy issues.
    Umm, downloading the apps you listed is not required to use iOS. Using Android is required to use Android. 
    Of course not. But I’ll bet most iOS users use at least one of those apps. Probably daily.

    Look I have an iPhone XS. I love it. I have no desire to leave iOS. But I also don’t need to trash Google and/or Android to make me feel better about my purchase. The XS stands on its own. 
  • Reply 36 of 38
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 260member
    For my personal preferences (privacy, security, ease of use, top notch tech support including in local Apple Stores, smooth response, 5+ years of OS updates, & a blended ecosystem with the Watch, Apple TV & the Mac), I choose the iPhone. 

    Another person could care about none of those things & pick Android phones as well as Google services. 
    That’s fine with me because we have the privilege to choose. 

    Fortunately, the smartphone market gives the user the choice of the Apple approach & the Google/Android approach. 
    edited October 2018 claire1
  • Reply 37 of 38
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 950member
    As usual most of this seems to boil down to Apple's pricing. I have friends who would happily buy an iPhone if it was cheaper, but they can get much better value with an Android phone. They get 80% of the features for 40% of the cost. With the price of Apple gear ballooning, I'm surprised the loyalty is as high as it is. The Xs repairs are more than the cost of an entire Android phone, which is why people think "why bother" and just switch to Android. Cook somehow doesn't seem to realise (or care) that the crazy prices are causing even Apple's most loyal fans to think twice. I never thought I'd be in that position, but here we are.
  • Reply 38 of 38
    claire1claire1 Posts: 510unconfirmed, member
    gatorguy said:
    claire1 said:
    This contradicts the report from yesterday or was it the day before?
    No contradiction at all if you understand what you're looking at. The "report from yesterday" you saw was trying to predict what people will do in the future. The one in this article is what people actually did. One is a more reliable indicator than the other as should be obvious.
    Ah, didn't know it was based on facts. Thought it was another poll.

    The conclusion is if you can afford an iPhone you'd have one.
Sign In or Register to comment.