Schiller says Apple & Adobe working on 'really amazing technology' for iPad Pro

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 63
    foljsfoljs Posts: 390member
    jmulchino said:
    melgross said:
    gutengel said:
    I haven’t heard much snark other than you slamming anyone who dares criticize mighty Adobe. BTW, I am a graphics professional. Haven’t used P.S. since they dumped one-time paid biz model.
    So? You are also an outlier. The huge majority of graphics professionals do use PS.
  • Reply 42 of 63
    mariomario Posts: 348member
    A PDF reader that works?
  • Reply 43 of 63
    Even though there was Phil Schiller and PhotoShop on iPad, much of the demos, especially at the beginning were made on Microsoft's Surface Studio by Terry White!!
  • Reply 44 of 63
    Sanctum1972Sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member
    Rayz2016 said:
    jdw said:

     And all the while, Apple continues to refuse to acknowledge that a lot of people still instinctively touch the screens of their Apple notebooks, thinking they are like every other device out there today. 
    Never seen this. 

    Hell, I haven’t even seen people with touch-screen laptops touch the screen. 

    As Cook often says, touching a screen mounted vertically is just bad ergonomics; that’s why people “instinctively” don’t do it. 


    I have. It's just that you're not looking hard enough to find the actual places people use touchscreen laptops. Hell, even a Surface! I've seen a few of them at a local cafe since I live in a college town and it's not unheard of. Most college, even high school, students I see use laptops ranging from Chrome, Windows and Mac OS, rarely do I see them use iPad. Only time I see iPad being used is when customers want to read, go over documentation, etc. I use my iPad Pro as a professional artist to create images and build out visuals to be fleshed out on the desktop later on when needed. 

    As for bad ergonomics, Cook is full of it even the rest of his executive cronies. In my profession, I've seen many creatives from designers/artists use a Wacom Cintiq or other alternatives ( like Huion/XP-Pen ) so they adjust their screen digitizers/tablets at any angle they want. It's NOT so different than drawing on a drafting table in this manner. Some artists draw on a vertical plane when doing some painting on canvas with an easel or drawing from a model which is a different thing all together. Apple's approach to an iPad and keyboard combo is hypocritical but also the AR aspects of holding an iPad to interact with a 3D plane is embarassing

    They should be using a 3D device like goggles that sense your hand movements to interact with AR/VR, not an iPad/iPhone. That level of 'babying' or 'hand holding' from Apple to consumers is extremely insulting since I expected better from them. 

    And lastly, I do NOT see anyone using AR with iPhone in my area in public. NONE. The only exception is Ingress ( which I play ) or Pokemon Go when other people use it ( on Android or iOS ). 

    I don't think iPad Pro will replace a PC at all. Ever. Because when using Photoshop for a high resolution file especially when you want to go with a large print from 11 by 17 or, say, 30 by 40, you need at least a 21 inch monitor or bigger to see the entire picture. I speak from experience having worked at a print shop several years ago doing page layout work and the iMac was 27 inches at the office. It allowed me to see everything without the crammed 'real estate' like the laptop or iPad. Your eyes need 'breathing room' to see the whole picture and view the actual size of the image. Even if someone wants to do a magazine layout on a two page spread view, the iPad is not the ultimate solution. 12.9 inches is not enough. You need a 21 inch monitor or wider to view the double page spread in actual size in high resolution. This is one of the reasons why the iPad Pro is flawed in this aspect. 

    In short, the desktop experience for working on Photoshop, video editing, page layout, illustration, 3D modelling, CAD, etc, is superior to that of a tablet. The only way the iPad can replace the PC is if it has an HDMI or USB-C output to a large touchscreen monitor to work with Apple Pencil or similar stylus to continue the work. And it needs more than just 256 GB of storage along with a port to allow storage expansion, or connection to an external hard drive to protect the files off grid without relying on the Cloud. And the iPad Pro needs to be about 17 to 20 inches (tabloid sized) to be considered  a PC replacement. 

    Why do you think Microsoft built the Surface PC, despite the expensive price? Think about it. 

    edited October 2018 jdw
  • Reply 45 of 63
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    jmulchino said:
    BTW, I am a graphics professional. Haven’t used P.S. since they dumped one-time paid biz model. 
    I always scratch my head when I read people making this argument. The only reason that a so called graphics professional would dump Photoshop because of the subscription is just Adobe hate - cutting your nose off to spite your face. Photoshop CC is $10 a month and clearly the most powerful image editing software on the planet. You can't be much of a graphics professional if that is too expensive for you. What's more they are constantly adding new features and improving it. The old boxed set was $700 per year and you basically got no improvements for that entire time. Finally, most real graphics professionals need Photoshop because they either collaborate with others and PS is ubiquitous or they freelance where every print shop and advertiser demands Photoshop proficiency.
  • Reply 46 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    wizard69 said:
    Could be big. Apple's A12 chip runs circles around Intel. But all the essential SW runs on IA. Perhaps Adobe and Apple have found a way to port to an all A12 and successor chip.
    I keep hearing this baloney about Intel and the so called essential software there.   The fact is in a very short time iPad has developed a fairly large software library of its own, including professional apps.    You don't port to the iPad you leverage the platform to create new and interesting solutions.   Even in this case I would expect that all Adobe apps coming to the iPad will be fresh code exploring new ways to do things.
    My daughter and I are pretty stoked about this. She says that every graphics artist she knows uses iPads. Every photographer and photo editor uses Photoshop. Yes, that’s real pro users, not necessarily part time users, or low level users.

    while I don’t know how well version 1 will work, I could say the same about Procreate, which I’ve been using from the beginning, and has developed into an amazing piece of software. I know there will be those commenters, complaining that features are missing, and so that means that this isnt the Desktop version after all. But hey have to give it a chance. It’s better to get 70% of it up and running well enough, and add more features later, than to try to cram everything in at once, and make a mess of it. It’s a learning process for both Adobe and us.
    edited October 2018 JWSC
  • Reply 47 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    wizard69 said:
    JWSC said:
    Adobe and Apple working together again.  So I guess it’s been long enough since Steve’s ‘Thoughts on Flash’ for the animosity to ebb.
    Adobe might have taken awhile to realize this but I believe they now know that Flash is evil!
    They began depreciating Flash several years ago. Another couple of years and it will be gone from the desktop as well. They’ve been marketing HTML 5 tools for the same thing for years.

    its interesting though, to go back to when Apple announced the iPhone. They were asked if Flash was there, and why if not. Jobs said that if Adobe could fit Flash on the iPhone, drop the battery use, and have it perform well, Apple would add it. There wasn’t any animosity at all. Adobe said that they could, and would do it by the time the iPhone came out. They couldn’t, and said that it was a lot harder than they thought. It never happened.

    other phone platforms tried it, but it didn’t work out. We even saw a tablet called the JooJoo come out which was based on Flash, but it was a disaster. Other companies began to abandon it, and then Adobe killed the ARM version, and said that desktop versions would later be killed as well.
  • Reply 48 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Rayz2016 said:
    jdw said:

     And all the while, Apple continues to refuse to acknowledge that a lot of people still instinctively touch the screens of their Apple notebooks, thinking they are like every other device out there today. 
    Never seen this. 

    Hell, I haven’t even seen people with touch-screen laptops touch the screen. 

    As Cook often says, touching a screen mounted vertically is just bad ergonomics; that’s why people “instinctively” don’t do it. 


    I have. It's just that you're not looking hard enough to find the actual places people use touchscreen laptops. Hell, even a Surface! I've seen a few of them at a local cafe since I live in a college town and it's not unheard of. Most college, even high school, students I see use laptops ranging from Chrome, Windows and Mac OS, rarely do I see them use iPad. Only time I see iPad being used is when customers want to read, go over documentation, etc. I use my iPad Pro as a professional artist to create images and build out visuals to be fleshed out on the desktop later on when needed. 

    As for bad ergonomics, Cook is full of it even the rest of his executive cronies. In my profession, I've seen many creatives from designers/artists use a Wacom Cintiq or other alternatives ( like Huion/XP-Pen ) so they adjust their screen digitizers/tablets at any angle they want. It's NOT so different than drawing on a drafting table in this manner. Some artists draw on a vertical plane when doing some painting on canvas with an easel or drawing from a model which is a different thing all together. Apple's approach to an iPad and keyboard combo is hypocritical but also the AR aspects of holding an iPad to interact with a 3D plane is embarassing

    They should be using a 3D device like goggles that sense your hand movements to interact with AR/VR, not an iPad/iPhone. That level of 'babying' or 'hand holding' from Apple to consumers is extremely insulting since I expected better from them. 

    And lastly, I do NOT see anyone using AR with iPhone in my area in public. NONE. The only exception is Ingress ( which I play ) or Pokemon Go when other people use it ( on Android or iOS ). 

    I don't think iPad Pro will replace a PC at all. Ever. Because when using Photoshop for a high resolution file especially when you want to go with a large print from 11 by 17 or, say, 30 by 40, you need at least a 21 inch monitor or bigger to see the entire picture. I speak from experience having worked at a print shop several years ago doing page layout work and the iMac was 27 inches at the office. It allowed me to see everything without the crammed 'real estate' like the laptop or iPad. Your eyes need 'breathing room' to see the whole picture and view the actual size of the image. Even if someone wants to do a magazine layout on a two page spread view, the iPad is not the ultimate solution. 12.9 inches is not enough. You need a 21 inch monitor or wider to view the double page spread in actual size in high resolution. This is one of the reasons why the iPad Pro is flawed in this aspect. 

    In short, the desktop experience for working on Photoshop, video editing, page layout, illustration, 3D modelling, CAD, etc, is superior to that of a tablet. The only way the iPad can replace the PC is if it has an HDMI or USB-C output to a large touchscreen monitor to work with Apple Pencil or similar stylus to continue the work. And it needs more than just 256 GB of storage along with a port to allow storage expansion, or connection to an external hard drive to protect the files off grid without relying on the Cloud. And the iPad Pro needs to be about 17 to 20 inches (tabloid sized) to be considered  a PC replacement. 

    Why do you think Microsoft built the Surface PC, despite the expensive price? Think about it. 

    My daughter, who is a professional in the photo/graphics field uses an iPad Pro, along with her Macs. She also says that every graphic artist she knows, or interacts with, uses an iPad.

    i have never seen a single Surface Pro anywhere. As far as the Surface PC goes, the word is that Microsoft has sold no more than a few tens of thousands of the device. Most Surface Pros go to IT departments. That’s most of the not quite 3 million of the devices they sell a year.
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 49 of 63
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    melgross said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    jdw said:

     And all the while, Apple continues to refuse to acknowledge that a lot of people still instinctively touch the screens of their Apple notebooks, thinking they are like every other device out there today. 
    Never seen this. 

    Hell, I haven’t even seen people with touch-screen laptops touch the screen. 

    As Cook often says, touching a screen mounted vertically is just bad ergonomics; that’s why people “instinctively” don’t do it. 


    I have. It's just that you're not looking hard enough to find the actual places people use touchscreen laptops. Hell, even a Surface! I've seen a few of them at a local cafe since I live in a college town and it's not unheard of. Most college, even high school, students I see use laptops ranging from Chrome, Windows and Mac OS, rarely do I see them use iPad. Only time I see iPad being used is when customers want to read, go over documentation, etc. I use my iPad Pro as a professional artist to create images and build out visuals to be fleshed out on the desktop later on when needed. 

    As for bad ergonomics, Cook is full of it even the rest of his executive cronies. In my profession, I've seen many creatives from designers/artists use a Wacom Cintiq or other alternatives ( like Huion/XP-Pen ) so they adjust their screen digitizers/tablets at any angle they want. It's NOT so different than drawing on a drafting table in this manner. Some artists draw on a vertical plane when doing some painting on canvas with an easel or drawing from a model which is a different thing all together. Apple's approach to an iPad and keyboard combo is hypocritical but also the AR aspects of holding an iPad to interact with a 3D plane is embarassing

    They should be using a 3D device like goggles that sense your hand movements to interact with AR/VR, not an iPad/iPhone. That level of 'babying' or 'hand holding' from Apple to consumers is extremely insulting since I expected better from them. 

    And lastly, I do NOT see anyone using AR with iPhone in my area in public. NONE. The only exception is Ingress ( which I play ) or Pokemon Go when other people use it ( on Android or iOS ). 

    I don't think iPad Pro will replace a PC at all. Ever. Because when using Photoshop for a high resolution file especially when you want to go with a large print from 11 by 17 or, say, 30 by 40, you need at least a 21 inch monitor or bigger to see the entire picture. I speak from experience having worked at a print shop several years ago doing page layout work and the iMac was 27 inches at the office. It allowed me to see everything without the crammed 'real estate' like the laptop or iPad. Your eyes need 'breathing room' to see the whole picture and view the actual size of the image. Even if someone wants to do a magazine layout on a two page spread view, the iPad is not the ultimate solution. 12.9 inches is not enough. You need a 21 inch monitor or wider to view the double page spread in actual size in high resolution. This is one of the reasons why the iPad Pro is flawed in this aspect. 

    In short, the desktop experience for working on Photoshop, video editing, page layout, illustration, 3D modelling, CAD, etc, is superior to that of a tablet. The only way the iPad can replace the PC is if it has an HDMI or USB-C output to a large touchscreen monitor to work with Apple Pencil or similar stylus to continue the work. And it needs more than just 256 GB of storage along with a port to allow storage expansion, or connection to an external hard drive to protect the files off grid without relying on the Cloud. And the iPad Pro needs to be about 17 to 20 inches (tabloid sized) to be considered  a PC replacement. 

    Why do you think Microsoft built the Surface PC, despite the expensive price? Think about it. 

    My daughter, who is a professional in the photo/graphics field uses an iPad Pro, along with here Macs. She also says that every graphic artist she knows, or interacts with, uses an iPad.

    I think you’ll find most pro photographers have moved to Lightroom, Photoshop is overkill and Lr is far more suited to post-production for photo shoots.  Once you move from layers to brushed adjustments the pencil becomes inevitable.

    Once the apron-strings are cut the mind opens and suddenly a whole range of tools play their part (eased by cloud libraries). Ps becomes marginalised, then Lr-PC becomes marginalised.  Even Lr-Mobile plays its part as first-pass review, then a few global adjustments, then brushed adjustments.  Just as our phones cannibalised our PC functions, so iPad does the same.
    tmay
  • Reply 50 of 63
    matrix077 said:
    i just want to be able to manually select faces in my photos and label them. and add keywords. in the native app on the iPad. and I actually tweeted Phil this AM to ask him why I still can't do something that simple when Abode can put freaking photoshop on the device 
    Agree with this completely. 
    Also agreed. Photos is another glaring blind spot that significantly affects usability. It's absurd that we can't have basic functionality like being able to tag photos with keywords (such an advanced and complicated technology) or have the ability to search text in photos.
    JWSC
  • Reply 51 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    mcdave said:
    melgross said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    jdw said:

     And all the while, Apple continues to refuse to acknowledge that a lot of people still instinctively touch the screens of their Apple notebooks, thinking they are like every other device out there today. 
    Never seen this. 

    Hell, I haven’t even seen people with touch-screen laptops touch the screen. 

    As Cook often says, touching a screen mounted vertically is just bad ergonomics; that’s why people “instinctively” don’t do it. 


    I have. It's just that you're not looking hard enough to find the actual places people use touchscreen laptops. Hell, even a Surface! I've seen a few of them at a local cafe since I live in a college town and it's not unheard of. Most college, even high school, students I see use laptops ranging from Chrome, Windows and Mac OS, rarely do I see them use iPad. Only time I see iPad being used is when customers want to read, go over documentation, etc. I use my iPad Pro as a professional artist to create images and build out visuals to be fleshed out on the desktop later on when needed. 

    As for bad ergonomics, Cook is full of it even the rest of his executive cronies. In my profession, I've seen many creatives from designers/artists use a Wacom Cintiq or other alternatives ( like Huion/XP-Pen ) so they adjust their screen digitizers/tablets at any angle they want. It's NOT so different than drawing on a drafting table in this manner. Some artists draw on a vertical plane when doing some painting on canvas with an easel or drawing from a model which is a different thing all together. Apple's approach to an iPad and keyboard combo is hypocritical but also the AR aspects of holding an iPad to interact with a 3D plane is embarassing

    They should be using a 3D device like goggles that sense your hand movements to interact with AR/VR, not an iPad/iPhone. That level of 'babying' or 'hand holding' from Apple to consumers is extremely insulting since I expected better from them. 

    And lastly, I do NOT see anyone using AR with iPhone in my area in public. NONE. The only exception is Ingress ( which I play ) or Pokemon Go when other people use it ( on Android or iOS ). 

    I don't think iPad Pro will replace a PC at all. Ever. Because when using Photoshop for a high resolution file especially when you want to go with a large print from 11 by 17 or, say, 30 by 40, you need at least a 21 inch monitor or bigger to see the entire picture. I speak from experience having worked at a print shop several years ago doing page layout work and the iMac was 27 inches at the office. It allowed me to see everything without the crammed 'real estate' like the laptop or iPad. Your eyes need 'breathing room' to see the whole picture and view the actual size of the image. Even if someone wants to do a magazine layout on a two page spread view, the iPad is not the ultimate solution. 12.9 inches is not enough. You need a 21 inch monitor or wider to view the double page spread in actual size in high resolution. This is one of the reasons why the iPad Pro is flawed in this aspect. 

    In short, the desktop experience for working on Photoshop, video editing, page layout, illustration, 3D modelling, CAD, etc, is superior to that of a tablet. The only way the iPad can replace the PC is if it has an HDMI or USB-C output to a large touchscreen monitor to work with Apple Pencil or similar stylus to continue the work. And it needs more than just 256 GB of storage along with a port to allow storage expansion, or connection to an external hard drive to protect the files off grid without relying on the Cloud. And the iPad Pro needs to be about 17 to 20 inches (tabloid sized) to be considered  a PC replacement. 

    Why do you think Microsoft built the Surface PC, despite the expensive price? Think about it. 

    My daughter, who is a professional in the photo/graphics field uses an iPad Pro, along with here Macs. She also says that every graphic artist she knows, or interacts with, uses an iPad.

    I think you’ll find most pro photographers have moved to Lightroom, Photoshop is overkill and Lr is far more suited to post-production for photo shoots.  Once you move from layers to brushed adjustments the pencil becomes inevitable.

    Once the apron-strings are cut the mind opens and suddenly a whole range of tools play their part (eased by cloud libraries). Ps becomes marginalised, then Lr-PC becomes marginalised.  Even Lr-Mobile plays its part as first-pass review, then a few global adjustments, then brushed adjustments.  Just as our phones cannibalised our PC functions, so iPad does the same.
    Most pros use both. Basic RAW editing on Lightroom is great, but it you need to do comps, or complex layering, you need Photoshop.
  • Reply 52 of 63
    The new A13 chip includes Intel-on-a-chip....
    running at 6 ghz!
  • Reply 53 of 63
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,336member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Never seen this.
    Well I have.  In fact, I am one of them who has inadvertently done it.  So have my children, both of whom are heavy iPad users.  The more you use a touch interface, the more natural it becomes such that you inadvertently start touching nearly every screen made of glass.  Funny how people who defend Cupertino on their decision to avoid a touch-screen Mac always talk about potential fingerprints on a Mac screen when we have them all over the place on our iPhones and iPads.  And there are a lot of people who add a keyboard to their iPad to put it in that NOTEBOOK form factor Cupertino defenders decry!  Microsoft hasn't done too badly with its Surface line of products, and they allow touch.

    At the end of the day, CHOICE IS GOOD.  Windows is no choice for me, so I want more choices from Apple.  I want my SD card slot back on the MBP, along with a good keyboard.  I want to see backtrack on their anti-touchscreen-Mac stance, just like they did on iPad screen sizes -- remember when Jobs defended the 9.7" size saying bigger or smaller isn't ideal and Apple wasn't interested in it?  The same should go for touch.  Apple will at some point cave.  Hopefully that will be sooner rather than later.  And if not, then they need to get their act together and finally make the iPad a notebook replacement.  Even with iOS12 and Adobe apps, it doesn't come close to replacing a Mac.  Not even close.
  • Reply 54 of 63
    volcan said: I always scratch my head when I read people making this argument. The only reason that a so called graphics professional would dump Photoshop because of the subscription is just Adobe hate - cutting your nose off to spite your face. Photoshop CC is $10 a month and clearly the most powerful image editing software on the planet. You can't be much of a graphics professional if that is too expensive for you.
    I think the main issue for graphics professional with Adobe is that they obviously abandoned what was originally the "core" of the Creative Suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign) to focus on video, web, and 3D applications. The CC upgrades to those original core programs are nothing major. The truth about Photoshop is that you can accomplish almost anything you need to with tools that were available 10-15 years ago. 
  • Reply 55 of 63
    GonardGonard Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    I use my iPad Pro as a camera. The camera (iPhone7 version) takes excellent photos. The 10.5 inch “viewfinder” makes for great framing of shots. My photos are then edited and saved or emailed. I look forward to using Photoshop CC. Next, I wish Apple would put their best camera in the iPad Pro line. Thanks Apple.
  • Reply 56 of 63
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,329member
    Gonard said:
    I use my iPad Pro as a camera. The camera (iPhone7 version) takes excellent photos. The 10.5 inch “viewfinder” makes for great framing of shots. My photos are then edited and saved or emailed. I look forward to using Photoshop CC. Next, I wish Apple would put their best camera in the iPad Pro line. Thanks Apple.
    I agree with you, though I would be as happy to use an iPhone X as the camera via WiFi or Lightning/USB Type C cable, leaving the controls and viewfinder to the iPad.

  • Reply 57 of 63
    tmay said:
    Gonard said:
    I use my iPad Pro as a camera. The camera (iPhone7 version) takes excellent photos. The 10.5 inch “viewfinder” makes for great framing of shots. My photos are then edited and saved or emailed. I look forward to using Photoshop CC. Next, I wish Apple would put their best camera in the iPad Pro line. Thanks Apple.
    I agree with you, though I would be as happy to use an iPhone X as the camera via WiFi or Lightning/USB Type C cable, leaving the controls and viewfinder to the iPad.

    Would love it if Apple were to offer their own camera and lens kit upgrades made for iPhones and iPads instead of having to rely on third parties for retrofitted solutions.
  • Reply 58 of 63
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,399member
    Adobe are working on the most groundbreaking subscription service ever!
    Can't wait to miss that.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 59 of 63
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    foregoneconclusion said:
    I think the main issue for graphics professional with Adobe is that they obviously abandoned what was originally the "core" of the Creative Suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign) to focus on video, web, and 3D applications. The CC upgrades to those original core programs are nothing major. The truth about Photoshop is that you can accomplish almost anything you need to with tools that were available 10-15 years ago. 
    I would disagree on all points. First if they hadn't made major updates to the three publishing apps you mention there would be no reason to change the file format of them. New version documents cannot be opened with older apps and older files need to be reformatted to open in the new apps. All three of those apps have completely new interfaces as well. To the second point 10-15 year old versions of Photoshop may be fine for rudimentary tasks but you are certainly not going to have compatibility with CC versions thus making you unable to work in professional collaboration or work in an advertising agency environment. Furthermore, I would suspect that those older versions would probably not even launch on the latest macOS.
  • Reply 60 of 63
    evilution said:
    Adobe are working on the most groundbreaking subscription service ever!
    Can't wait to miss that.
    “We’ve discovered a breakthrough way to collect your subscription payment before you even approve it!”
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