OnePlus plus has bit into Apple in India, and things may only get worse

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  • Reply 21 of 31
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,325member
    Weird, so you’re saying that people who live in a 3rd world country are less likely to buy high end phones over budget phones. That’s some Sherlock Holmes level of deduction!
    racerhomie3
  • Reply 22 of 31
    Folio said:
    inductor said:
    Like Tim Cook said, India is a long term investment for Apple. Those One Plus users will turn into future Samsung users & so on. The Indian government doesn’t want their people to even own refurbished iPhones.That tells me more than enough.
    If Apple is playing the long term game here, they are in for a rude shock. As the ecosystems mature and people grow up with them, it gets harder and harder to get them to switch. It was easier when Android was a bumbling mess. And in many way, it still is, but it is getting better with every passing year. While it may not become as polished as iOS any time soon, it is already near the threshold where many people consider it “good enough.” All of this has happened before with Windows and macOS. 

    And what is wrong with the Indian Government not wanting to let the country be used as a dumping ground for e-waste? I, for one, fully support the decision.
    Yes, I understand the refurbished issue is a touchy one in a country where people are still alive who remember life as British colonials. It's interesting since UK has one of highest rates of buying refurbished Apple gear. And rates buying used Apple gear are pretty high in US too, where there is no stigma and it comes with a guarantee and fresh battery and box if you buy from Apple. As the smart phone industry matures, and the durability and free SW upgrades of Apple become more widely appreciated, I expect this refurbished market will get even more popular in US and elsewhere. (It might be one reason why Apple killed SE in US.) But of course this refurbished issue is something that India has to determine and decide whether to come around on its own. Evidently from your "dumping ground for e-waste" comment, there is a way to go.
    First of all, there is NO restriction on ANY OEM in selling refurbished phones within India. Need proof? Go to Amazon.in and search for products with keyword "Refurbished". You will find plenty of phones from various OEMs. Only condition - the "original" phone should have been sold within India, What is wrong in enforcing this policy???
  • Reply 23 of 31
    clarker99 said:
    saltyzip said:
    It's unlikely Apple will ever stand a chance in India within the next five years. The way Apple keeps jacking up iPhone prices, I don't see how anyone in that country can afford or even want to buy an iPhone when they have so many less expensive Android smartphones to choose from. The Apple ecosystem is probably non-existent in India because there likely aren't many Mac desktops or laptops being sold in the country. I've already faced the fact that Apple will not make any headway in any of the BRIC nations. Apple basically said to all the Android manufacturers, "These countries are completely yours to take 98% market share to our 2%." That's a really discouraging thing for Apple shareholders to have to hear. It's a crushing defeat by all Android manufacturers. Four huge countries and Apple can't even get a teeny, tiny worth of a grip in terms of market percentage. It's no wonder Wall Street has given Apple such a kick in the nuts for the last week or so. Now, Apple has to be the only tech company struggling to make share gains while the FANGS and Microsoft are freaking knocking it out of the ballpark.

    I always hear about reversals of fortunes and now Apple is on the negatively receiving end of said reversal. Everyone is always happy to see Apple stock end up in the toilet and now they're all having a good laugh at the former trillion-dollar company. They were all sure it wouldn't last for Apple and now they're right. I'm not actually worried as long as I'm receiving my fine Apple dividends. It just kind of hurts how Apple is being left out in the cold while the rest of the tech stocks are burning hot.  Only Apple has to worry about things like peak iPhone every single quarter.  There hasn't been anything close to an iPhone 'supercycle' in the past few years, so why do some people keep talking about it happening.

    The party's over... dum-de-dum-dum. (sung in a wistful voice)
    Blame Tim Cook and the rest of the apple board who aren't interested in anyone who hasn't got a big bank balance, they aren't interested in the "junk market" so they said.

    Android is the phone of the people, just as Toyota  is the king of cars worldwide. Not everyone has to drive around in a mercedes to get from a to b.
    Toyota actually makes a profit. The only Android vendor that makes any kind of profit is Samsung.

    It is also fun to pretend that High-end Android devices are not ‘expensive’. The Mate20 is launching in Canada for $1300, the Note 9 is $1249. So, much more affordable!  These are not the devices being sold in India. Cheap sub-$200 phones probably are the most popular and no one is making profit on those.

    Good for One Plus but let’s see who the flavor of the week Android vendor of choice is in a couple years. A couple years ago Samsung was Android vendor of choice with no other really good option.  Time will tell.

    The only Android vendor that makes any kind of profit is Samsung. - Nope, you are wrong. Globally Samsung, Huawei, Xiaomi and BBK brands (Oppo, Vivo and OnePlus) are ALL making profit. Within India, Oppo and Vivo are running in losses due to huge advertisement spend. Excluding them, Samsung, Huawei and Xiaomi are making profits within India. What is wrong with Xiaomi and Huawei (through its honor brand) selling millions of $150 phones and STILL making a profit?????
    edited November 8 gatorguy
  • Reply 24 of 31
    Like Tim Cook said, India is a long term investment for Apple. Those One Plus users will turn into future Samsung users & so on. The Indian government doesn’t want their people to even own refurbished iPhones.That tells me more than enough.


    Nope, One Plus is pulling users from Samsung in the last couple of years and increasing its installed base in the >$500 smartphones category. Not the other way round as you imply. So no, they are NOT going to end up buying iPhones in future. They will stick to Android (most likely to OnePlus itself, if not other Android OEMs).


    Curious to know why people are moving away from Samsung to OnePlus instead of iPhones? Near stock Android in OnePlus Vs Touchwiz/GraceUX/whatever non-sense software that Samsung puts in their phones, ensuring performance similar to iPhones at less than half the cost.


    On the refurbished part, see my comment #22.


    Edit: To be honest, even I did not expect OnePlus to be pulling users from iPhones, but apparently that is also happening in India. Inductor has already laid out the reasons for that to be happening, so I am not going to repeat what he has already mentioned.

    edited November 8
  • Reply 25 of 31
    inductor said:
    Like Tim Cook said, India is a long term investment for Apple. Those One Plus users will turn into future Samsung users & so on. The Indian government doesn’t want their people to even own refurbished iPhones.That tells me more than enough.
    If Apple is playing the long term game here, they are in for a rude shock. As the ecosystems mature and people grow up with them, it gets harder and harder to get them to switch. It was easier when Android was a bumbling mess. And in many way, it still is, but it is getting better with every passing year. While it may not become as polished as iOS any time soon, it is already near the threshold where many people consider it “good enough.” All of this has happened before with Windows and macOS. 

    And what is wrong with the Indian Government not wanting to let the country be used as a dumping ground for e-waste? I, for one, fully support the decision.
    I know iPhone 2Gs that still work reliably. That e waste argument is total nonsense.US enjoys refurbished phones, so does Japan.Its the Indian governments stupid politicies that lets consumers down.Ironically ave. Indian has to change phones every 6 months due to issues, so e waste is being created anyways. So Indians are moving towards dumb phones now.

    I know Inductor has already provided proper responses to your comment. But still thought of reiterating the same again. "Average Indian has to change phones every 6 months due to issues" is utter non-sense that I have heard in a long time. I am from India and my Moto G5 Plus is going strong for last 1.75 years without ANY issues or whatsoever. Not even once I had to take it to a service center for any repair or whatsoever. I know it is just anecdotal evidence, but I do buy mobiles for my wife, relatives, friends and so on. No one is replacing their phones under 2 years. People here in India hold on to their phones as long as possible (even 4 to 5 years if possible), because most of us buy phones by paying full amount in one go. Only a small percentage of people buy them in installment plans.


    Indians are moving towards dumb phones is another non-sensical argument. People are moving from full dumb phones (basic phones) to half dumb phones (Jio phones). On the refurbished phones, read my comment #22. Last thing we need is e-waste from China being dumped into our country before we could even blink.

  • Reply 26 of 31
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,787member
    According to this:

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/services/retail/xiaomi-huawei-plan-big-retail-push-in-india/articleshow/65556091.cms

    Both Xiaomi and Huawei are digging their feet into India.

    In other news, the same two companies are having a negative effect on Apple and Samsung in Europe's biggest markets:

    https://www.telecompaper.com/news/apple-gains-market-share-in-us-china-android-wins-in-europe-japan-kantar--1267820
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 31
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,319member
    Interesting aside:Market share reports yesterday now show the US falling to the third spot in the smartphone markets, overtaken by India. 
  • Reply 28 of 31
    avon b7 said:
    According to this:

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/services/retail/xiaomi-huawei-plan-big-retail-push-in-india/articleshow/65556091.cms

    Both Xiaomi and Huawei are digging their feet into India.

    In other news, the same two companies are having a negative effect on Apple and Samsung in Europe's biggest markets:

    https://www.telecompaper.com/news/apple-gains-market-share-in-us-china-android-wins-in-europe-japan-kantar--1267820
    I am from India and I agree with you that Xiaomi and Huawei are having negative effect on Samsung particularly here. Apple did not have much of a market share to begin with (unlike Europe), so they are not as much impacted by Xioami and Huawei.
  • Reply 29 of 31
    asciiascii Posts: 5,935member
    How does Apple's minimalist aesthetic go down in India? They have ornate buildings (Taj Mahal), extravagant dance numbers, multi-coloured saris, dishes with many ingredients, and long names (Venkatanarasimharajuvaripeta) which tends to suggest a non-minimalist culture. 

    Perhaps Android with its many varied hardware and software options just fits the national taste better.
  • Reply 30 of 31
    croprcropr Posts: 849member
    clarker99 said:Toyota actually makes a profit. The only Android vendor that makes any kind of profit is Samsung.

    It is also fun to pretend that High-end Android devices are not ‘expensive’. The Mate20 is launching in Canada for $1300, the Note 9 is $1249. So, much more affordable!  These are not the devices being sold in India. Cheap sub-$200 phones probably are the most popular and no one is making profit on those.

    Good for One Plus but let’s see who the flavor of the week Android vendor of choice is in a couple years. A couple years ago Samsung was Android vendor of choice with no other really good option.  Time will tell.
    Look at the facts.
    Huawei is making a decent profit, has surpassed Apple in markets hare in the last 2 quarters rand has recently announced that the major driver for its profit are the models in the $300 - $400 range like the Honor Play.  These devices fulfils the needs of 95% of the users and are decently designed and built.  As long as Apple does not have an answer to these devices, it will be an uphill battle in India.  The sub-$200 phones are not the issue.
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
  • Reply 31 of 31
    ascii said:
    How does Apple's minimalist aesthetic go down in India? They have ornate buildings (Taj Mahal), extravagant dance numbers, multi-coloured saris, dishes with many ingredients, and long names (Venkatanarasimharajuvaripeta) which tends to suggest a non-minimalist culture. 

    Perhaps Android with its many varied hardware and software options just fits the national taste better.
    India is a diverse country. There is enough space for everyone — including Apple — if only they were willing to make the effort. Fancy advertising and company owned flagship stores are not going to help much if iPhones don’t actually work as advertised and Apple insists on charging twice as much as the nearest competitoon in Android world.
    edited November 8 muthuk_vanalingamascii
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