Comparing the redesigned 11-inch iPad Pro versus 2017's 10.5-inch model

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 48
    My main complaint comes from using the iPad almost exclusively in landscape mode. When I turn it on, my thumb invariable is covering the camera, preventing FaceId from working. I'm having to teach myself to pick up the iPad slightly differently. That being said, it runs about ten gazillion times faster than my old iPad Air, so I'm pretty happy. It's thinness is also quite impressive. I miss the home button, but I'm sure I'll get used to it.
    evilution
  • Reply 22 of 48
    So you're having to purposefully hold it wrong to get it to work right?

    You're holding it wrong now takes on a newly right meaning :-) :-)
  • Reply 23 of 48
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 228member
    No headphone jack = another idiotic attack on usefulness and another insult to consumers
    * Here is a common use situation; using a headphone jack and charging the iPad at the same time. 
    - I would be OK with the new iPad Pro if it had two USB-C ports (so one for a headphone dongle and the other for a charging cable).
    - But needing a USB-C hub just to use headphones and charge the iPad is ridiculous.   
    edited November 8 MplsP
  • Reply 24 of 48
    chasm said:
    As you say, it's a temporary situation -- so maybe that's why nobody but you thinks its very significant.
    Nice
  • Reply 25 of 48
    Still holding out for an iPad Mini Pro!
    Haha...it's a great form factor! :)
  • Reply 26 of 48
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 688member
    dewme said:
    jeromec said:
    Unrelated question: when will Appleinsider's commenting system work properly with Safari on iPad or iPhone ?
    Are you referring to the comment box not enabling and giving you the insertion cursor when you touch in the box? A workaround for this is to touch in the extreme upper left hand part of the box, where the first character will be inserted. Yeah, this is an annoyance but hopefully the people who maintain the site will fix it soon.
    I think that’s actually a bug with iOS 12 never had the problem before I updated. In a whopping 12 hours of testing it seems to be better with 12.1, but I could be imagining things too. 

    Rayz2016 said:
    Soli said:
    jeromec said:
    Unrelated question: when will Appleinsider's commenting system work properly with Safari on iPad or iPhone ?
    I just wish they'd support Unicode properly so when you add an emoji, and then edit your post you don't have to also re-add the emoji again or have it show up as a character from some Asiatic language.
    Also noticed that if the last character in your post is an emoji, you can’t edit the post again. 

    Worst forum editor I’ve ever seen. Makes CompuServe look state of the art. 

    That's why I couldn't edit a post the other day! Thanks - at least now I know. thought I was going crazy.
    edited November 8
  • Reply 27 of 48
    dewmedewme Posts: 1,752member
    I'm astounded by the performance numbers for the new iPad Pro. I bought last year's 10.5" model and I'm still amazed at the performance of the beast I have in my hands. I would have to bloat it up with all manner of artificial workloads to just get a sense of its limitations. It's never come close to breaking a sweat.

    Until software app developers pull out all the stops and start specifically targeting their top tier apps to the iPad Pro - without any compromises or downscale features, the vast majority of iPad Pros sold will continue to be vastly overpowered for the vast majority of tasks they are called on to serve. This is not a knock on Apple hardware in any sense of word, they have delivered in spades. It's the software vendors who have not tapped the potential the iPad Pro has to offer. Yeah, Apple is also guilty of not thoroughly exploiting what the iPad Pro has to offer, at least not to the extent they could. Apple may be reluctant to open up the App Store to having iPad apps that require Pro machine to run efficiently, but they need to rethink this approach. The least common denominator approach is only going to hold back the iPad Pro. Every iPad Pro that's ever shipped is chomping at the bit to run hard and fast but the current crop of apps is holding it back.

    Adobe may very well upset the Apple cart in a big way - and I can't wait to see other software vendors follow suit.
  • Reply 28 of 48
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 688member
    No headphone jack = another idiotic attack on usefulness and another insult to consumers
    Yes - there really isn't a justification for not including it in the iPad They had some pseudo-reasons that didn't really hold up with the iPhone, but even those don't apply with the iPad. Especially now when they ostensibly are going to be using the USB C port for more functions. 
  • Reply 29 of 48
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 688member
    So I'm a bit confused - both the 12" and 11" iPad pros have the A12x processor; why such a drastic difference in performance?
  • Reply 30 of 48
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,337member
    MplsP said:
    dewme said:
    jeromec said:
    Unrelated question: when will Appleinsider's commenting system work properly with Safari on iPad or iPhone ?
    Are you referring to the comment box not enabling and giving you the insertion cursor when you touch in the box? A workaround for this is to touch in the extreme upper left hand part of the box, where the first character will be inserted. Yeah, this is an annoyance but hopefully the people who maintain the site will fix it soon.
    I think that’s actually a bug with iOS 12 never had the problem before I updated. In a whopping 12 hours of testing it seems to be better with 12.1, but I could be imagining things too. 

    Rayz2016 said:
    Soli said:
    jeromec said:
    Unrelated question: when will Appleinsider's commenting system work properly with Safari on iPad or iPhone ?
    I just wish they'd support Unicode properly so when you add an emoji, and then edit your post you don't have to also re-add the emoji again or have it show up as a character from some Asiatic language.
    Also noticed that if the last character in your post is an emoji, you can’t edit the post again. 

    Worst forum editor I’ve ever seen. Makes CompuServe look state of the art. 

    That's why I couldn't edit a post the other day! Thanks - at least now I know. thought I was going crazy.
    Yes, it’s a weird one. 

    If I remember correctly, pressing the edit gives you an editor for a new comment, not an editor for the comment you want to edit. 

    Very annoying. 
  • Reply 31 of 48
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,638member
    MplsP said:
    So I'm a bit confused - both the 12" and 11" iPad pros have the A12x processor; why such a drastic difference in performance?
    What are you talking about? The drastic difference in performance is the between the new iPad Pros with A12X vs previous iPad Pros with A10X processor.
    redgeminipa
  • Reply 32 of 48
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,323member
    Got my 11” on release day. Love it.
    For the record, I have never charged an iPad whilst listening to music and I didn’t even realise the 11” didn’t have a headphone jack.
    I haven’t used a headphone jack for well over a year now. The plug gets in the way as you hold the device.

    Bluetooth headphones all the way (BeatsX in my case) but I am considering getting some noise cancelling USBC headphones. Active noise cancelling, 24bit DAC and better track and SIRI control. You don’t get that on 100+ year old headphone jack technology.
  • Reply 33 of 48
    MplsP said:
    No headphone jack = another idiotic attack on usefulness and another insult to consumers
    Yes - there really isn't a justification for not including it in the iPad They had some pseudo-reasons that didn't really hold up with the iPhone, but even those don't apply with the iPad. Especially now when they ostensibly are going to be using the USB C port for more functions. 
    I too find this annoying, but in fact there is a justification. The classic headphone jack is too fat to fit under the screen, given how thin the device is, and now with the bezel so small, there's no room outside the screen area either. You might well argue that they should make it thicker, and add more battery and/or cooling at the same time... that's a legitimate design choice, though, and not just a mean decision to take something away from us. For most people, bluetooth is the answer (and a good one, these days). For a few people (say, a million or so DJs around the world), it's bad. But they should probably be buying the non-pro iPads anyway.

    I'm much more interested in thinking about the A12x. The really fascinating question is what can we learn about the future of the A-series processors? Single-core performance is vastly superior to the intel i9, clock for clock or per watt. But you can't really make a linear comparison - power use scales up much more rapidly than performance (it's squared, in fact, IIRC). Despite that, Apple could probably take the single-core performance crown from the i9 *right now* if they wanted to, with the current architecture, just by clocking it up a bit, while keeping a big power advantage. But we don't know that for sure- it's possible that they could hit a wall due to a too-short pipeline, for example. They probably *can't* hit 3.5GHz with the current architecture, though, much less 5GHz. Could they design for that while staying efficient? No way to know right now.

    Beyond that, and even more interesting, is the question of whether they can build a multicore processor that can take on Intel 8- to 28-core processors. That's a very big challenge! I'm going to guess that they can clean intel's clock at 8 cores if they decide to build a chip with 8 performance cores, because they're doing pretty damn well with 8 cores already (4 perf, 4 high-eff). If they couldn't interconnect 8 cores with good power efficiency and sufficiently-close-to-linear scaling, they'd probably just choose to shut down the 4 efficiency cores when the perf cores are fully loaded. But they didn't, and that tells me that their interconnect, whatever it is, is good and efficient. So that's pretty impressive too.

    But what about 28 cores? Or something in the middle? The scheme they're using for 8 cores is probably not good enough for 28 cores because that would be overkill. Intel doesn't use the same architecture on their LCC and HCC chips - LCCs like the i7 use a ring, whereas large chips have much more complex interconnects. They're going to need something good before they can hope to put an A-series chip in a future Pro-type Mac. And this is a really big deal, and a very hard problem! AMD's solution (in the EPYC chips) is pretty good, but it consumes a huge portion of the entire chip's power budget (more than half in some cases!!!). Intel's may be somewhat better- I haven't looked into it - but probably not, given the power draw of their chips. If Apple's guys can do better (and considering their other work, it's entirely possible), we could be looking at the fastest server and workstation chips on the planet, and not by a little. Of course, they have to want to do that, and they may not. (My guess is that they actually will, but not right away - laptop Macs will go A-series long before the Pro desktops.)

    And then there's the question of graphics, too. The current A12X GPU reportedly has the power, roughly, of a PS4 (original version). GPUs scale pretty easily... at least to a certain extent. You'd need maybe 40-50 or so GPU cores (instead of the 7 in the A12X) to get to roughly the performance of the current top-of-the-line water-cooled AMD Vega 64. Could they do that, with an appropriate power budget? Could they beat AMD or NVidia? That's anyone's guess, and it again depends on the interconnect.

    It will be an interesting day when Facebook offers Apple a billion dollars to deliver a couple million A-series chips for servers, because they slaughter Intel and AMD on both power and performance. What happens then? Would Apple ever consider selling them? Would they decline because it distracts from the core mission? Or agree, because it lets them amortize even higher R&D costs for chips they need for themselves anyway?
  • Reply 34 of 48
    I got my new 12.9” on release day, but held off on really using it until I could get the keyboard case and Pencil, as it’s going to be replacing my ‘16 12” MacBook as my primary computer. After driving 90 miles away to my nearest Apple store yesterday, today is day one. The MacBook was boxed and shipped to its new owner yesterday. 

    Thoughts: 

    Compared to the 12” MacBook, this thing is a pure screamer! It puts the MacBook to shame. I can’t emphasize how much faster this iPad is compared to the MacBook. 

    At less than an inch in screen size difference, there is a LOT more usable screen real estate. 

    No comparison in the speakers. The iPad Pro speakers to a massive improvement over the MacBook. 

    The keyboard is nicer to type on... much nicer. I’d say my typing errors are about the same, on day one. It’ll only improve the more I adjust to the different keyboard. It’s truly a nice keyboard. I do, however, miss the backlit keys. For the price, Apple should find a way to have backlighting. 

    I do really miss the trackpad, but the pencil does help fill the void. 

    I know I’ll miss being able to use an external CD/DVD drive, but I rarely used it as it is, so it’s not a huge deal. 

    I’m sure I’ll find other things I love over the MacBook, and other things I’ll miss. Time will tell. 
  • Reply 35 of 48
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 688member
    MplsP said:
    So I'm a bit confused - both the 12" and 11" iPad pros have the A12x processor; why such a drastic difference in performance?
    What are you talking about? The drastic difference in performance is the between the new iPad Pros with A12X vs previous iPad Pros with A10X processor.
    Yes - I was confused. I think I must have been reading too fast and confused the 12x for 12” when they were talking about performance!redgeminipa said:
    I got my new 12.9” on release day, but held off on really using it until I could get the keyboard case and Pencil, as it’s going to be replacing my ‘16 12” MacBook as my primary computer. After driving 90 miles away to my nearest Apple store yesterday, today is day one. The MacBook was boxed and shipped to its new owner yesterday. 

    Thoughts: 

    Compared to the 12” MacBook, this thing is a pure screamer! It puts the MacBook to shame. I can’t emphasize how much faster this iPad is compared to the MacBook. 

    At less than an inch in screen size difference, there is a LOT more usable screen real estate. 

    No comparison in the speakers. The iPad Pro speakers to a massive improvement over the MacBook. 

    The keyboard is nicer to type on... much nicer. I’d say my typing errors are about the same, on day one. It’ll only improve the more I adjust to the different keyboard. It’s truly a nice keyboard. I do, however, miss the backlit keys. For the price, Apple should find a way to have backlighting. 

    I do really miss the trackpad, but the pencil does help fill the void. 

    I know I’ll miss being able to use an external CD/DVD drive, but I rarely used it as it is, so it’s not a huge deal. 

    I’m sure I’ll find other things I love over the MacBook, and other things I’ll miss. Time will tell. 
    What model MacBook? Either way, one thing to consider is the fact that on an ipad, iOS does very little multitasking, unlike MacOS which is doing a whole lot more in the background. Now, you may not need that multitasking performance, so the end result is positive, but it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison. 
  • Reply 36 of 48
    dewme said:
    This is not a knock on Apple hardware in any sense of word, they have delivered in spades. It's the software vendors who have not tapped the potential the iPad Pro has to offer. 
    I think a lot of that has to do with the software pricing differences between desktop and iOS. Being able to use subscription pricing within iOS is going to help nudge that along. That's probably the primary reason full versions of things like Photoshop or AutoCAD are being announced. Vendors that didn't have legacy desktop software were more likely to support full versions of their apps in both macOS and iOS because they were already doing bargain pricing for desktop to compete.
    edited November 9
  • Reply 37 of 48
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 1,789member
    MplsP said:
    What model MacBook? Either way, one thing to consider is the fact that on an iPad, iOS does very little multitasking, unlike MacOS which is doing a whole lot more in the background. Now, you may not need that multitasking performance, so the end result is positive, but it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison. 

    That's not at all true. Both iOS and macOS do a lot of background multitasking - they are both based off the same/latest version of Darwin. The only difference between them is that iOS restricts app background processing to a finite set of tasks, whereas in macOS it's basically a free-for-all.
    Soli
  • Reply 38 of 48
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 1,789member
    No headphone jack = another idiotic attack on usefulness and another insult to consumers

    I disagree. This is Apple once again pushing things forward towards wireless audio. Whenever they've done this they've always left some people behind and justifiably angry about it. But that's the way it goes with technology. It doesn't matter whether it can still physically fit or not, if it does not "fit" into whatever Apple sees as the future, they'll leave it out.

    I remember when I got that first iMac... No ADB, no SCSI, no floppy. I had to buy an ethernet card for Mac SE, and use it as a server so I could print on my old printer, backup files onto my external HD, and save files onto a floppy for sharing.
  • Reply 39 of 48
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,239member
    mjtomlin said:
    No headphone jack = another idiotic attack on usefulness and another insult to consumers

    I disagree. This is Apple once again pushing things forward towards wireless audio. Whenever they've done this they've always left some people behind and justifiably angry about it. But that's the way it goes with technology. It doesn't matter whether it can still physically fit or not, if it does not "fit" into whatever Apple sees as the future, they'll leave it out.

    I remember when I got that first iMac... No ADB, no SCSI, no floppy. I had to buy an ethernet card for Mac SE, and use it as a server so I could print on my old printer, backup files onto my external HD, and save files onto a floppy for sharing.
    Then why does the brand new MacBook Air still have a headphone jack, rather than putting a more useful USB-C port on both sides?
  • Reply 40 of 48
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,724member
    The new iPad Pro is a beast.  It seems to me inevitable that Apple already has macOS running on their own SoCs in-house.  That's why I bet the emphasis was on how powerful the new iPad Pro is compared to 92% of all laptops. There is a MacBook of some type coming, running full macOS without an Intel CPU or an AMD GPU soon, I'd bet the farm on it.   
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