So much for SSDs being reliable enough to be soldered on. Apple's now going to have to replace $600 logic boards rather than $100 SSDs. Perhaps this is why the Mini is not quite as monolithic as it could have been...
No one ever said SSD drives were 100% fault proof. The can and do fail, just like hard drives and RAM chips. They’re rare but it happens.
This is a non-issue. Apple is backing it up even without Applecare. Name any other company that does that out of warranty?
It is anything but a non-issue.
I'm in the camp that prefers non-soldered SSD and RAM. I'm also on board for repairability by design.
Repair complexity, repair turnaround cost and data privacy are the three big issues.
Knowing that faults occur, components can be defective on leaving the factory and many warranties are short, designing a piece of equipment that cannot easily be repaired or requires the replacing unaffected parts as part of the repair, is simply bad design from the outset in my book.
When a particular model begins accumulating problems (like the butterfly keyboard issues on recent MBPs) they become time bombs.
Replacing failed parts with 'good' parts but which share the same design or manufacturing fault is not really a solution IMO. If something fails and requires a warranty extension, the extension itself should not have a cut-off point below the 'vintage' point if the replacement part is identical to the part for which the extended warranty covers.
The argument that says Apple's machines are so well designed and put together that you will probably never hit upon a problem is poppycock. The butterfly keyboard could stop working due to particle accumulation at any time and without warning. Idem a defective component (whether it was defective at the factory or not). The same applies to components that suffer 'wear and tear' like batteries. Your statistical mileage may vary but even if it is a small 'insignificant' amount of users that are affected, if you are one of them, you are effectively borked. If you are out of warranty, you are well a truly borked - by design.
If the machines were so reliable, Apple could do what many manufacturers do (and only do when their products are truly unlikely to suffer failure or are easy/cheap to repair) offer a long warranty.
The problem is that Apple has turned warranties into a business in itself.
In the case of storage, no one wanted to tackle the issue of privacy. If a storage element died or suffered intermittent issues in warranty, Apple requires you send the part back to them with no contractual guarantee to protect what was on the storage element until its destruction. That is still the case, only mitigated somewhat by less machines using hard disks and encryption becoming more commonplace.
And as Robert Walters just indicated, I have never been contacted pro-actively by Apple to make me aware of any repair programmes related to my Apple equipment. Nor has Apple contacted me about the reimbursement of the difference between the amount charged for an iPhone 6 battery replacement and subsequent reduction in price for the service. I used to get AppleCare on every Mac I bought so they had my contact information duplicated. On the other hand I used to get lots of marketing mails from Apple Europe.
On one occasion when I found out about a repair programme for a MBP which had ended a few months before, I was politely told that nothing could be done and that was the end of the story.
Is Apple heading towards a leasing model for hardware, tethered to the 'mothership' like apps, recycling everything down the line and treating hardware like a service (read gravy train ...?
So much for SSDs being reliable enough to be soldered on. Apple's now going to have to replace $600 logic boards rather than $100 SSDs. Perhaps this is why the Mini is not quite as monolithic as it could have been...
You have a misunderstanding of technology. Soldering notebook storage isn’t a result of reliability, it’s for faster speed and less volume. This compromise is exactly right for a portable device. Try again.
That was my understanding, too. Whenever possible, I do think things like hard drives and memory should be replaceable, as these are items that most frequently need to be changed out. I don’t know if Apple’s design with the T2 chip would preclude this or not.
I’m also curious how many other manufacturers of notebooks in the same size class have the components soldered in.
I agree with others - this is not a ‘non issue.’ If it wasn’t, Apple wouldn’t be issuing a recall. It’s not a crisis, catastrophe, or other superlative, though. I’m guessing their supplier had a bad batch of chips that Apple got stuck with. It would appear they are doing the right (or perhaps legally required) thing by replacing them. The biggest issue here is the fact that it may cause irretrievable data loss. My guess is that’s why they are emailing people.
As much as I hate soldiered RAM and SSD, it's here to stay, unfortunately. Soldiering makes it more power efficient, space saving, more stable, and cheaper. It's not as expensive as you think. Many computer manufacturers have their motherboards soldiered with many parts at once.
It's not just Apple. Dell, HP, and others are donig the same with their new laptops too.
Guys, the SSD is soldered on. Apple claims this is for performance reasons, which might even be true. It would seem based on benchmark comparisons with the XPS there might be at least a bit of a speed benefit, although that might be because of the T2.
However, while it all so very conveniently for Apple substantially raises the cost at initial purchase for anything above base configuration, but it also means the user can’t service their own machine, and as this example demonstrates, raises the cost of repair if anything goes wrong. Not only cost of repair, but look at this example: a person could just replace the SSD themselves, or a thirty second job at an Apple store, but no, this requires a job where the whole logic board has to be replaced. How inconvenient.
Apple really needs to rethink this soldered SSD strategy, if nothing else because it is costing a hell of a lot in good will.
And in return it’s faster (this isn’t some conspiracy claim, get real), takes up less space, weighs less. All attributes I’m looking for in my portable. Tinkering ain’t one — like most any real pro, if my machine/car breaks down, I get it repaired. I don’t dick around with screwdrivers on the kitchen table.
Nobody at Apple is going to “rethink” this and go back to back to bigger machines. Stop day dreaming, hating, trolling, whatever. Acceptance is your friend. Or, get an Alienware and stop being permanently unhappy. Don’t you want to be happy?
Yes, solder SSD is smaller. But why a “professional” need to be super thin? It is because a thinner sexier machine sell more than a slightly thicker machine. Not to mention a thinner machine has more thermal problems.
Yet another replacement program introduced for another Apple product. Year after year this happens. Something is wrong at Apple quality control. https://www.apple.com/support/exchange_repair/
When apple is going to open service program for 13" mbp 2017 screen flickering issue. I've seen tons of threads in facebook groups for same issue including mine one i affected as well. No new apple product lasts more than 1 year anymore.
Apple’s primary reason for tightly integrating the SSD with the logic board is to boost revenue by forcing people to buy higher levels of storage when they acquire a Mac - since it can’t be upgraded later. It may offer some performance benefits, which I don’t know the answer to. Apple does the same thing with iPhones. Look at Samsung phones which have a memory slot so owners can add memory later - no reason Apple couldn’t do that with iPhones, but they want to bump up the revenue at purchase time.
Apple is driven by marketing and revenue as well as controlling the user. Their policies create a love/hate relationship with their customers. They won’t do a recall like this unless they are backed into a corner.
I have a 15 inch MacBook Pro that was recalled due to a bad video card integration on the logic board. Sure they fixed it free of charge but it has recently failed again and they no longer support any repair. Apparently the components were never redesigned, they just repair with the same defectively designed part. So now my pricey machine is a pile of junk. So much for good will.
So which new Windows laptop did you buy? Lenovo, Asus, HP, Dell? Inquiring minds would like to know. The rest of your screed is parroted talking point nonsense.
Logic is a bitch isn’t it? You don’t offer a single bit of insight or logic that would counter my comment. Get back to me when you have some insight to offer. Otherwise just keep quiet.
Apple’s primary reason for tightly integrating the SSD with the logic board is to boost revenue by forcing people to buy higher levels of storage when they acquire a Mac - since it can’t be upgraded later. It may offer some performance benefits, which I don’t know the answer to. Apple does the same thing with iPhones. Look at Samsung phones which have a memory slot so owners can add memory later - no reason Apple couldn’t do that with iPhones, but they want to bump up the revenue at purchase time.
Apple is driven by marketing and revenue
Nope, pure bullshit on your part.
Your second part is correct — you don’t know/understand the answer.
Wow that’s a deep argument you offer in support of your opinion. Care to offer some facts that would support your position? You probably can’t because all you know how to do is cry BS.
Apple’s primary reason for tightly integrating the SSD with the logic board is to boost revenue by forcing people to buy higher levels of storage when they acquire a Mac - since it can’t be upgraded later. It may offer some performance benefits, which I don’t know the answer to. Apple does the same thing with iPhones. Look at Samsung phones which have a memory slot so owners can add memory later - no reason Apple couldn’t do that with iPhones, but they want to bump up the revenue at purchase time.
Apple is driven by marketing and revenue as well as controlling the user. Their policies create a love/hate relationship with their customers. They won’t do a recall like this unless they are backed into a corner.
I have a 15 inch MacBook Pro that was recalled due to a bad video card integration on the logic board. Sure they fixed it free of charge but it has recently failed again and they no longer support any repair. Apparently the components were never redesigned, they just repair with the same defectively designed part. So now my pricey machine is a pile of junk. So much for good will.
So which new Windows laptop did you buy? Lenovo, Asus, HP, Dell? Inquiring minds would like to know. The rest of your screed is parroted talking point nonsense.
Logic is a bitch isn’t it? You don’t offer a single bit of insight or logic that would counter my comment. Get back to me when you have some insight to offer. Otherwise just keep quiet.
Apple’s primary reason for tightly integrating the SSD with the logic board is to boost revenue by forcing people to buy higher levels of storage when they acquire a Mac - since it can’t be upgraded later. It may offer some performance benefits, which I don’t know the answer to. Apple does the same thing with iPhones. Look at Samsung phones which have a memory slot so owners can add memory later - no reason Apple couldn’t do that with iPhones, but they want to bump up the revenue at purchase time.
Apple is driven by marketing and revenue
Nope, pure bullshit on your part.
Your second part is correct — you don’t know/understand the answer.
Wow that’s a deep argument you offer in support of your opinion. Care to offer some facts that would support your position? You probably can’t because all you know how to do is cry BS.
Comments like 'your argument is bullshit' are disrespectful and do nothing to further discussion. Unfortunately, there are several here that tend to resort to calling anyone who voices an opinion in any way negative of Apple a troll or something similar rather than engaging in legitimate discourse about things. Having said that, when you claimed that Apple's primary reason for hard-wiring components to the logic board was to boost profits, you didn't offer any other evidence beyond your own opinion to back it up either. You offered pure opinion so your criticisms when others responded with pure opinion are a bit disingenuous.
If you look above, there are potential legitimate reasons for the decision. You may disagree with them, but you can't make the argument that there is no justification for it besides profits.
Guys, the SSD is soldered on. Apple claims this is for performance reasons, which might even be true. It would seem based on benchmark comparisons with the XPS there might be at least a bit of a speed benefit, although that might be because of the T2.
However, while it all so very conveniently for Apple substantially raises the cost at initial purchase for anything above base configuration, but it also means the user can’t service their own machine, and as this example demonstrates, raises the cost of repair if anything goes wrong. Not only cost of repair, but look at this example: a person could just replace the SSD themselves, or a thirty second job at an Apple store, but no, this requires a job where the whole logic board has to be replaced. How inconvenient.
Apple really needs to rethink this soldered SSD strategy, if nothing else because it is costing a hell of a lot in good will.
And in return it’s faster (this isn’t some conspiracy claim, get real), takes up less space, weighs less. All attributes I’m looking for in my portable. Tinkering ain’t one — like most any real pro, if my machine/car breaks down, I get it repaired. I don’t dick around with screwdrivers on the kitchen table.
Nobody at Apple is going to “rethink” this and go back to back to bigger machines. Stop day dreaming, hating, trolling, whatever. Acceptance is your friend. Or, get an Alienware and stop being permanently unhappy. Don’t you want to be happy?
Yes, solder SSD is smaller. But why a “professional” need to be super thin? It is because a thinner sexier machine sell more than a slightly thicker machine. Not to mention a thinner machine has more thermal problems.
Because people don't want to lug around heavy laptops? I deal with this constantly where I work and I work with a field of well over 1000 creative people in one building. People want high end laptops, but after they get them they hate it because its too big and heavy to carry around to meetings and places they travel too, etc which is always being done for their job. This DOES matter to people who actually need a Pro Mac laptop, or any higher end laptop for that matter. Maybe a consumer who thinks they need a MacBook Pro doesn't necessarily care, but in the end it does matter.
If you see what Apple does with its thinness, its actually quite the accomplishment they can do what they actually do with their products and keep them cool. Not very many get away with doing this consistently. Yes, I have some with thin laptops, that aren't even higher end and we're constantly getting motherboards replaced, RAM replaced, WiFI cards replaced, m.2 SSD's replaced, etc.
Has anyone seen anything from Apple regarding issues with multiple, random freezes in 2018 MBP with Touch Bar? Apple Support Communties cite numerous concerns with no apparent explanation from Apple.
Guys, the SSD is soldered on. Apple claims this is for performance reasons, which might even be true. It would seem based on benchmark comparisons with the XPS there might be at least a bit of a speed benefit, although that might be because of the T2.
However, while it all so very conveniently for Apple substantially raises the cost at initial purchase for anything above base configuration, but it also means the user can’t service their own machine, and as this example demonstrates, raises the cost of repair if anything goes wrong. Not only cost of repair, but look at this example: a person could just replace the SSD themselves, or a thirty second job at an Apple store, but no, this requires a job where the whole logic board has to be replaced. How inconvenient.
Apple really needs to rethink this soldered SSD strategy, if nothing else because it is costing a hell of a lot in good will.
And in return it’s faster (this isn’t some conspiracy claim, get real), takes up less space, weighs less. All attributes I’m looking for in my portable. Tinkering ain’t one — like most any real pro, if my machine/car breaks down, I get it repaired. I don’t dick around with screwdrivers on the kitchen table.
Nobody at Apple is going to “rethink” this and go back to back to bigger machines. Stop day dreaming, hating, trolling, whatever. Acceptance is your friend. Or, get an Alienware and stop being permanently unhappy. Don’t you want to be happy?
Yes, solder SSD is smaller. But why a “professional” need to be super thin? It is because a thinner sexier machine sell more than a slightly thicker machine. Not to mention a thinner machine has more thermal problems.
Actually just the opposite: a thinner machine dissipates heat faster, a larger enclosure holds more heat. Apple has chosen aluminum for its high heat conductivity, not because it looks sexier. The overall volume is one of the variables that affect the very delicate thermal balance of a laptop. Put a larger fan get a less lasting battery, larger fan may work on a desktop but not on a laptop. What fans do is to suck excess heat from the CPU and GPU and move hot air across the heat sink and out the laptop. Fans have no effect on the overall cooldown of the laptop, this is where the overall volume matters.
I have a 15 inch MacBook Pro that was recalled due to a bad video card integration on the logic board. Sure they fixed it free of charge but it has recently failed again and they no longer support any repair. Apparently the components were never redesigned, they just repair with the same defectively designed part. So now my pricey machine is a pile of junk. So much for good will.
Let me guess, the 2011 with the AMD Radeon HD 6750M? Me too. I am on my fourth logic board, 7 years later, and in all my repairs over the years up until the end of last year when the replacement program ended, I also got a new display and new top case at one point and multiple new hard drives, and never paid a cent. I'm on the verge of getting 8 full years out of this Mac thanks to Apple's extended repair program. I'm calling it good (will) at this point.
My only gripe, if you could even call it that, is I wish they had a loaner or rental program for those who absolutely need a Mac while the repair is happening for a few days. Booting off my backup over Firewire from my 2009 Mac mini was a painful substitute for the 2-3 days I'd be without a machine.
I am totally spitting. I am a typical Mac older user...not a techie. My last Macbookpro lasted me 6 years. I was clear when I made the major purchase of a new one that I wanted a model which would "see me out". I reckon on max 15 years remaining me but could get by with a tablet I reckon when I no longer do any work or leading of voluntary groups. AND then I get this email. The very least Apple should do is have a dedicated email/number to call in this situation. I have had to ask people and search online to find an apple authorised dealer who I could actually speak to before booking dog walker/booking parking space near station, and gearing myself for a day out in the city. (There is no two way street with genius bars in the UK. They keep you waiting for up to forty minutes but if you are 5 minutes late they cancel your booking) I don't know how the hell you back up (I used to use a snazzy item called a passport on the old Macbook) with those thunderbolt ports...I haven't actually found a flash drive that fits them and why should I buy a flash drive or nasty little dongle thing just because the new apple machine is bad. Apple support chat was useless.
I always loved apple products. Not now. I do now think it is a cult. Any other company which acted with such arrogance would hit the floor fast. But it may not be forever. Just look at how the once premium brand British Airways is now down there with the 3 stars.
but to practicalities: Once I have forked out for the things needed to back up and getting to a friendly technician...how do I get the stuff reinstalled. Is it straightforward? Or do you think I should return the lightly used 7 month old machine for a full refund...and then what should I buy???
Comments
recycling everything down the line and treating hardware like a service (read gravy train
The 'white papers' are there on security, for what they may be worth,
and beyond my understanding to know if we should have privacy concerns...
https://www.apple.com/mac/docs/Apple_T2_Security_Chip_Overview.pdf
I've repurposed and upgraded every mac I've ever owned,
allowing them a much longer useful in house service life...
I’m also curious how many other manufacturers of notebooks in the same size class have the components soldered in.
I agree with others - this is not a ‘non issue.’ If it wasn’t, Apple wouldn’t be issuing a recall. It’s not a crisis, catastrophe, or other superlative, though. I’m guessing their supplier had a bad batch of chips that Apple got stuck with. It would appear they are doing the right (or perhaps legally required) thing by replacing them. The biggest issue here is the fact that it may cause irretrievable data loss. My guess is that’s why they are emailing people.
https://www.apple.com/support/exchange_repair/
If you look above, there are potential legitimate reasons for the decision. You may disagree with them, but you can't make the argument that there is no justification for it besides profits.
If you see what Apple does with its thinness, its actually quite the accomplishment they can do what they actually do with their products and keep them cool. Not very many get away with doing this consistently. Yes, I have some with thin laptops, that aren't even higher end and we're constantly getting motherboards replaced, RAM replaced, WiFI cards replaced, m.2 SSD's replaced, etc.
My only gripe, if you could even call it that, is I wish they had a loaner or rental program for those who absolutely need a Mac while the repair is happening for a few days. Booting off my backup over Firewire from my 2009 Mac mini was a painful substitute for the 2-3 days I'd be without a machine.
Will I get a new drive in my MacBook?
Nope. An Apple technician will simply run a utility to update your drive firmware.
How long will the repair take?
Apple estimates the process will take an hour or less.
The very least Apple should do is have a dedicated email/number to call in this situation. I have had to ask people and search online to find an apple authorised dealer who I could actually speak to before booking dog walker/booking parking space near station, and gearing myself for a day out in the city. (There is no two way street with genius bars in the UK. They keep you waiting for up to forty minutes but if you are 5 minutes late they cancel your booking)
I don't know how the hell you back up (I used to use a snazzy item called a passport on the old Macbook) with those thunderbolt ports...I haven't actually found a flash drive that fits them and why should I buy a flash drive or nasty little dongle thing just because the new apple machine is bad.
Apple support chat was useless.
I always loved apple products. Not now.
I do now think it is a cult. Any other company which acted with such arrogance would hit the floor fast. But it may not be forever. Just look at how the once premium brand British Airways is now down there with the 3 stars.
but to practicalities: Once I have forked out for the things needed to back up and getting to a friendly technician...how do I get the stuff reinstalled. Is it straightforward? Or do you think I should return the lightly used 7 month old machine for a full refund...and then what should I buy???