Huawei CFO arrest in Canada could affect iPhone tariffs if US-China trade talks sour

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 33
    I just tuned into the BBC News Hour, they had a US senator (couldn't make out which) who said this is absolutely not about the trade war (BBC's term, so...), or commercial protectionism, but is a national security issue and mentioned the Iran sanctions as well. He said, and I quote, "Huawei is an instrument of China."
    edited December 2018 tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 33
    sdw2001 said:
    The arrest may affect more than Huawei's standing with the U.S. government, as it could negatively impact the current political climate between the U.S. and China. The two are currently in a trade war, with the Trump administration threatening to apply tariffs on $200 billion of goods from China, although the two companies are in talks to try and de-escalate the situation. 

    This is fake news and a poorly written paragraph.  The two countries (not companies) are, in fact, trying to deescalate the situation.  But it's not a trade war.  Anyone saying that is just being sensational, or doesn't understand what he/she is talking about.  

    As for this issue, let's not pretend it's happening on its own.  This is the President doing what he does.  This is a negotiation.  He's applying pressure, then offering ways out.  I don't mean this in any political way....it is just an observation of how he does business.  He did the same thing with Saudis, where he duped them into reducing oil prices.  
    Trying to deescalate the situation? What planet are you looking at? China might be, but on their terms. Trump is clueless. Look at what's happening to the markets. REAL businessmen have no confidence in his actions.

    This is a negotiation tactic, IF YOU ARE A MAFIOSI. Real businessmen, and real statesmen, know better than to pull a stunt like this. Effectively the US is trying to take a Chinese national hostage as a bargaining chip. 
    jony0
  • Reply 23 of 33
    Since when would US Law apply to anyone other than US citizens? China is still a sovereign country, isn't it?
  • Reply 24 of 33
    rcfarcfa Posts: 763member
    larryjw said:
    Since when would US Law apply to anyone other than US citizens? China is still a sovereign country, isn't it?
    Law applies wherever someone has the power to enforce it.

    Mundane example: in just about every country, you pay taxes where you live. If you don’t live there and don’t earn there, you pay no taxes.

    welcome to US citizenship: you are globally taxable in the US, regardless where you live and where you earn money, unless the US has a double taxation treaty with that country, and even then you have to file US taxes, and if foreign taxes are less than you’d have to pay in the US, pay the difference.

    That’s why record numbers of wealthy people try to shed US citizenship, but it’s like a bad STD: really hard to get rid of.
    And if you’re not a top earner, getting tax advisors who know about international tax law can cost you dearly, just as returning to the US after many years, and the IRS going after you for not filing tax returns.

    So, as you can see, the US empire stretches its jurisdiction all over the globe, not just for foreigners violating US sanctions, also for law abiding US persons, who get caught in double taxation hell.
  • Reply 25 of 33
    “We’re mad these people were prevented from giving ryechnology to Iran to further their nuclear ambitions”

    Yes, this position of the press is as nutty as it sounds.  Perhaps it’s time for Americans to come home from China while they still can.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 26 of 33
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 551member
    DAalseth said:
    Something I don't understand. The US may be pissed with the company for violating the US law. They have the right to block export to the company, and the import and sale of the companies products into the US. To even lay fines on the company and seize its assets in the US.
    But how can they look at criminally charging a Chinese citizen who works for a Chinese company that is doing business in China?
    Does this mean that Saudi Arabia could demand my extradition for violating their Apostasy laws?
    Could Russia demand my extradition for slandering Putin and his criminal regime?
    The US has a beef with the company, but why would they have any jurisdiction for criminal charges?
    Let me make it very clear to you. Canada would not have detained her if there were no legal grounds for it. Canada doesn't need to spoil its relations with China. There was a good reason to arrest her. 

    As for Trump's beef with China, aside from the mess that this would make with the stock market in general and AAPL price in particular, China needs to be punished for the trade imbalance and IP theft. China has stolen so much IP that they are now trying to go completely autonomous by 2025. Not only did we outsource our production to them almost entirely, but we also allowed them to steal almost all IP from us, which has has been going on for 20 years now. If we don't punish them now, they will take over the world in 7 years. This is the last chance to stop their advance at our expense. Trump or no Trump, this must be done. I stand to lose so much because of this, but I would rather the world stopped China now at the expense of losing a big chunk of my wealth than lose all of my wealth within the next 20 years when the US economy gets completely decimated by China. 
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 33
    What? Avon b7 has been arrested?
    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 28 of 33
    diegogdiegog Posts: 134member
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    Something I don't understand. The US may be pissed with the company for violating the US law. They have the right to block export to the company, and the import and sale of the companies products into the US. To even lay fines on the company and seize its assets in the US.
    But how can they look at criminally charging a Chinese citizen who works for a Chinese company that is doing business in China?
    Does this mean that Saudi Arabia could demand my extradition for violating their Apostasy laws?
    Could Russia demand my extradition for slandering Putin and his criminal regime?
    The US has a beef with the company, but why would they have any jurisdiction for criminal charges?
    Yes, they could, but the US would not be supporting/complying with that decision. Canada, on the other hand, is in agreement with the US on trade wars. In short - Very poorly thought out example that you made here. If you are a Chinese national that breaks US laws by selling illegal products in the US, my advice to you would be - DO NOT GO to the countries where extradiction laws could create legal problems for you. Just the same way - do not fly via Saudi airports, if you break Saudi laws...  
    Your example is not challenging. I have a better one if you can tolerate. China banned sales of weapons to Taiwan because Taiwan is a province of China. Can China arrest US weapon producer employees for selling weapons to Taiwan? 
    Well...first off, although China likes to say that Taiwan is a province of the PRC, over 23 MILLION Taiwanese disagree with you.  They are a sovereign nation with ambiguous recognition internationally. Taiwan has been separate for decades.  So your example is a poor one.  The US routinely sells to Taiwanese government and companies.  It’s really not the same thing. 
    A better example would be if the US was selling to Tibet or the Uighurs after china had specifically, and with reason, put blocks in place.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 33
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    What? Avon b7 has been arrested?
    Ha! Not yet but I think I'll be flying to England soon so you never know
  • Reply 30 of 33
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,570member
    sirozha said:
    DAalseth said:
    Something I don't understand. The US may be pissed with the company for violating the US law. They have the right to block export to the company, and the import and sale of the companies products into the US. To even lay fines on the company and seize its assets in the US.
    But how can they look at criminally charging a Chinese citizen who works for a Chinese company that is doing business in China?
    Does this mean that Saudi Arabia could demand my extradition for violating their Apostasy laws?
    Could Russia demand my extradition for slandering Putin and his criminal regime?
    The US has a beef with the company, but why would they have any jurisdiction for criminal charges?
    Let me make it very clear to you. Canada would not have detained her if there were no legal grounds for it. Canada doesn't need to spoil its relations with China. There was a good reason to arrest her. 

    As for Trump's beef with China, aside from the mess that this would make with the stock market in general and AAPL price in particular, China needs to be punished for the trade imbalance and IP theft. China has stolen so much IP that they are now trying to go completely autonomous by 2025. Not only did we outsource our production to them almost entirely, but we also allowed them to steal almost all IP from us, which has has been going on for 20 years now. If we don't punish them now, they will take over the world in 7 years. This is the last chance to stop their advance at our expense. Trump or no Trump, this must be done. I stand to lose so much because of this, but I would rather the world stopped China now at the expense of losing a big chunk of my wealth than lose all of my wealth within the next 20 years when the US economy gets completely decimated by China. 
    There is more to this story than Huawei selling product to Iran. Huawei is well known in the tech industry for the last 30 years for stealing US IP. When I worked in telecom Huawei was known as the Cisco of China, they stole and knocked off Cisco equipment and sold it for a fraction of what Cisco sold it. This was part of the reason they were banded from selling their networking products in the US. They did this a lot, they reversed engineer lots of companies products.

    The other thing people do not understand about why China made companies manufacture in China, China figure out you can reverse engineer and product, but is you do not know the manufacturing techniques which are never patented or publicly documented they could never make the product, Without the manufacturing technology the US had they would not be able to get ahead. These is where bean counters in the US failed to understand where the real value existed in the company and had not problem turning over the manufacturing knowhow. I mostly blame US companies for allowing this. China today has far better manufacturing capability today because of Apple. especially when it comes to miniaturization and micro machining technology. China was never really good at this until Apple brought it all to China along with its suppliers.

    If I was an executive for any US company I would not be traveling to China any time in the near future and I would stay out of Taiwan as well. China has been known to detain company execs while traveling in China to instill upon them the importance of what they need to do if they want to do business in China. This was all done very quietly can discreetly. This action by the US is the shoot over the bow, The US has also send ships into the area China is claims is theirs, the US is putting lots of pressure on them.
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 31 of 33
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    maestro64 said:
    sirozha said:
    DAalseth said:
    Something I don't understand. The US may be pissed with the company for violating the US law. They have the right to block export to the company, and the import and sale of the companies products into the US. To even lay fines on the company and seize its assets in the US.
    But how can they look at criminally charging a Chinese citizen who works for a Chinese company that is doing business in China?
    Does this mean that Saudi Arabia could demand my extradition for violating their Apostasy laws?
    Could Russia demand my extradition for slandering Putin and his criminal regime?
    The US has a beef with the company, but why would they have any jurisdiction for criminal charges?
    Let me make it very clear to you. Canada would not have detained her if there were no legal grounds for it. Canada doesn't need to spoil its relations with China. There was a good reason to arrest her. 

    As for Trump's beef with China, aside from the mess that this would make with the stock market in general and AAPL price in particular, China needs to be punished for the trade imbalance and IP theft. China has stolen so much IP that they are now trying to go completely autonomous by 2025. Not only did we outsource our production to them almost entirely, but we also allowed them to steal almost all IP from us, which has has been going on for 20 years now. If we don't punish them now, they will take over the world in 7 years. This is the last chance to stop their advance at our expense. Trump or no Trump, this must be done. I stand to lose so much because of this, but I would rather the world stopped China now at the expense of losing a big chunk of my wealth than lose all of my wealth within the next 20 years when the US economy gets completely decimated by China. 
    There is more to this story than Huawei selling product to Iran. Huawei is well known in the tech industry for the last 30 years for stealing US IP. When I worked in telecom Huawei was known as the Cisco of China, they stole and knocked off Cisco equipment and sold it for a fraction of what Cisco sold it. This was part of the reason they were banded from selling their networking products in the US. They did this a lot, they reversed engineer lots of companies products.

    The other thing people do not understand about why China made companies manufacture in China, China figure out you can reverse engineer and product, but is you do not know the manufacturing techniques which are never patented or publicly documented they could never make the product, Without the manufacturing technology the US had they would not be able to get ahead. These is where bean counters in the US failed to understand where the real value existed in the company and had not problem turning over the manufacturing knowhow. I mostly blame US companies for allowing this. China today has far better manufacturing capability today because of Apple. especially when it comes to miniaturization and micro machining technology. China was never really good at this until Apple brought it all to China along with its suppliers.

    If I was an executive for any US company I would not be traveling to China any time in the near future and I would stay out of Taiwan as well. China has been known to detain company execs while traveling in China to instill upon them the importance of what they need to do if they want to do business in China. This was all done very quietly can discreetly. This action by the US is the shoot over the bow, The US has also send ships into the area China is claims is theirs, the US is putting lots of pressure on them.
    Here's a opinion post at CNN, that might answer a few questions.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/opinions/arresting-huawei-exec-is-a-case-of-spectacularly-bad-timing-andelman/index.html

    China ramps up it's propaganda machine;

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/07/china-plan-for-global-media-dominance-propaganda-xi-jinping

    I have trouble understanding the fawning over Chinese Companies and products.
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 33
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    tmay said:
    maestro64 said:
    sirozha said:
    DAalseth said:
    Something I don't understand. The US may be pissed with the company for violating the US law. They have the right to block export to the company, and the import and sale of the companies products into the US. To even lay fines on the company and seize its assets in the US.
    But how can they look at criminally charging a Chinese citizen who works for a Chinese company that is doing business in China?
    Does this mean that Saudi Arabia could demand my extradition for violating their Apostasy laws?
    Could Russia demand my extradition for slandering Putin and his criminal regime?
    The US has a beef with the company, but why would they have any jurisdiction for criminal charges?
    Let me make it very clear to you. Canada would not have detained her if there were no legal grounds for it. Canada doesn't need to spoil its relations with China. There was a good reason to arrest her. 

    As for Trump's beef with China, aside from the mess that this would make with the stock market in general and AAPL price in particular, China needs to be punished for the trade imbalance and IP theft. China has stolen so much IP that they are now trying to go completely autonomous by 2025. Not only did we outsource our production to them almost entirely, but we also allowed them to steal almost all IP from us, which has has been going on for 20 years now. If we don't punish them now, they will take over the world in 7 years. This is the last chance to stop their advance at our expense. Trump or no Trump, this must be done. I stand to lose so much because of this, but I would rather the world stopped China now at the expense of losing a big chunk of my wealth than lose all of my wealth within the next 20 years when the US economy gets completely decimated by China. 
    There is more to this story than Huawei selling product to Iran. Huawei is well known in the tech industry for the last 30 years for stealing US IP. When I worked in telecom Huawei was known as the Cisco of China, they stole and knocked off Cisco equipment and sold it for a fraction of what Cisco sold it. This was part of the reason they were banded from selling their networking products in the US. They did this a lot, they reversed engineer lots of companies products.

    The other thing people do not understand about why China made companies manufacture in China, China figure out you can reverse engineer and product, but is you do not know the manufacturing techniques which are never patented or publicly documented they could never make the product, Without the manufacturing technology the US had they would not be able to get ahead. These is where bean counters in the US failed to understand where the real value existed in the company and had not problem turning over the manufacturing knowhow. I mostly blame US companies for allowing this. China today has far better manufacturing capability today because of Apple. especially when it comes to miniaturization and micro machining technology. China was never really good at this until Apple brought it all to China along with its suppliers.

    If I was an executive for any US company I would not be traveling to China any time in the near future and I would stay out of Taiwan as well. China has been known to detain company execs while traveling in China to instill upon them the importance of what they need to do if they want to do business in China. This was all done very quietly can discreetly. This action by the US is the shoot over the bow, The US has also send ships into the area China is claims is theirs, the US is putting lots of pressure on them.
    Here's a opinion post at CNN, that might answer a few questions.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/opinions/arresting-huawei-exec-is-a-case-of-spectacularly-bad-timing-andelman/index.html

    China ramps up it's propaganda machine;

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/07/china-plan-for-global-media-dominance-propaganda-xi-jinping

    I have trouble understanding the fawning over Chinese Companies and products.
    There is no fawning.

    China is adapting to modern times. China has opened up far more easily than say Russia because it always 'exported' its people around the world. The Chinese know how to adapt. 

    China is using the exact same tools as everybody else. Don't you remember the role of Hollywood in pushing the American Way? How the media has been used to push messages and sway opinion? How the act of lobbying has become 'normal' in the US.

    Now the US is in an uncomfortable position as it is not used to having real competition and control.

    The EU is designing its own processors precisely to be independent of external technology. There is a big push happening behind the scenes. China has moved ahead on communication and core communications technology.

    The problem is that pulling up drawbridges is not the right way to manage things. When the US banned the sale of intel processors to china for use in supercomputers, China simply used its own and jumped right to the top of the supercomputing league. Anything that is banned from sale for protectionist reasons will be substituted by homegrown tech. In the case of Huawei, Kirin OS has been in development for years - just in case.

    Apple currently licences over 800 patents from Huawei. If that deal were scrapped, Apple would find itself with a challenge. If China were to retaliate with the exact same measures that the US has applied to Huawei in the US, Apple would suffer greatly.

    This latest turn of events is simply creating tension unnecessarily.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/12/08/prosecuting-chinese-huawei-executive-is-an-idiotic-way-hold-china-check/?utm_term=.885d302c0783
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