TSMC and Foxconn revenues up, contrary to dour iPhone supply chain forecasts

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 24
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,938member
    adamc said:
    avon b7 said:
    These facts can’t be. The analysts and the 9to5 comments section said the iPhone was way too expensive because bean counter Tim Cook... and Steve is no more... and .... and... and.... 🙄🙄🙄
    AFAIK, the rumours of lower than expected sales were relative to the newest models.

    There have been other rumours claiming the older models were pulling up the slack.


     I didn’t know these companies are still making chips to be used in those older models of the iPhones. 
    Apple, like most big companies in the phone business, keeps tight control of its supply chain. They react to demand and adjust component orders accordingly. This applies to all phones currently in production.

    TSMC has a long queue of customers and rumours say it is already producing processors on its second generation 7nm process.

    Huawei and Apple were the first companies to receive chips from the 7nm process but there is still a lot of demand for other chips.

    Huawei has just announced a new range of AI chips (12nm and 7nm) which I believe TSMC will produce and there are rumours of a Kirin 990 for February 2019, also to be produced by TSMC. Many other companies too.
  • Reply 22 of 24
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    avon b7 said:
    adamc said:
    avon b7 said:
    These facts can’t be. The analysts and the 9to5 comments section said the iPhone was way too expensive because bean counter Tim Cook... and Steve is no more... and .... and... and.... ߙ䰟鄰
    AFAIK, the rumours of lower than expected sales were relative to the newest models.

    There have been other rumours claiming the older models were pulling up the slack.


     I didn’t know these companies are still making chips to be used in those older models of the iPhones. 
    Apple, like most big companies in the phone business, keeps tight control of its supply chain. They react to demand and adjust component orders accordingly. This applies to all phones currently in production.

    TSMC has a long queue of customers and rumours say it is already producing processors on its second generation 7nm process.

    Huawei and Apple were the first companies to receive chips from the 7nm process but there is still a lot of demand for other chips.

    Huawei has just announced a new range of AI chips (12nm and 7nm) which I believe TSMC will produce and there are rumours of a Kirin 990 for February 2019, also to be produced by TSMC. Many other companies too.
    You seem to miss the fact that TMSC continues to rum many nodes that are not leading edge, as customers continue to run components that are not required to be either power efficient or performant, or have products that are good enough for the markets that they do not require the latest nodes, architectures, or designs.

    I don't read much into this at all either way for Apple. While you tout 990 production by February, Apple will almost certainly be in volume production for the A13 by late spring. I"m not seeing much advantage to Huawei's attempts to deliver new SOC's at this fast pace. Please note that the 980 was notably less performant than the A12, so it would be likely that the 990 would at best match the A12 with the 2nd generation process, but whatever.

    I would also note that Apple does in fact have many processors not destined for the iPhone that could and do use the latest nodes, as well as other the are on older
    processes.

    https://www.fudzilla.com/news/pc-hardware/47430-tsmc-expects-10-per-cent-of-sales-to-be-7nm


    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 24
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,938member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    adamc said:
    avon b7 said:
    These facts can’t be. The analysts and the 9to5 comments section said the iPhone was way too expensive because bean counter Tim Cook... and Steve is no more... and .... and... and.... ߙ䰟鄰
    AFAIK, the rumours of lower than expected sales were relative to the newest models.

    There have been other rumours claiming the older models were pulling up the slack.


     I didn’t know these companies are still making chips to be used in those older models of the iPhones. 
    Apple, like most big companies in the phone business, keeps tight control of its supply chain. They react to demand and adjust component orders accordingly. This applies to all phones currently in production.

    TSMC has a long queue of customers and rumours say it is already producing processors on its second generation 7nm process.

    Huawei and Apple were the first companies to receive chips from the 7nm process but there is still a lot of demand for other chips.

    Huawei has just announced a new range of AI chips (12nm and 7nm) which I believe TSMC will produce and there are rumours of a Kirin 990 for February 2019, also to be produced by TSMC. Many other companies too.
    You seem to miss the fact that TMSC continues to rum many nodes that are not leading edge, as customers continue to run components that are not required to be either power efficient or performant, or have products that are good enough for the markets that they do not require the latest nodes, architectures, or designs.

    I don't read much into this at all either way for Apple. While you tout 990 production by February, Apple will almost certainly be in volume production for the A13 by late spring. I"m not seeing much advantage to Huawei's attempts to deliver new SOC's at this fast pace. Please note that the 980 was notably less performant than the A12, so it would be likely that the 990 would at best match the A12 with the 2nd generation process, but whatever.

    I would also note that Apple does in fact have many processors not destined for the iPhone that could and do use the latest nodes, as well as other the are on older
    processes.

    https://www.fudzilla.com/news/pc-hardware/47430-tsmc-expects-10-per-cent-of-sales-to-be-7nm


    I'm not missing any fact. That is why I specifically mentioned the 12nm process. You must have missed that.

    If the Kirin 990 exists, it is already in production. The most likely change is Balong 5000 integration. Supposing that is true then the Kirin 1020 will go into production around the same time as the A13 (just like the Kirin 980 and A12 were in production together).

    Add on all the customers that were lining up for capacity and TSMC looks to be in good shape into 2019.
  • Reply 24 of 24
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    adamc said:
    avon b7 said:
    These facts can’t be. The analysts and the 9to5 comments section said the iPhone was way too expensive because bean counter Tim Cook... and Steve is no more... and .... and... and.... ߙ䰟鄰
    AFAIK, the rumours of lower than expected sales were relative to the newest models.

    There have been other rumours claiming the older models were pulling up the slack.


     I didn’t know these companies are still making chips to be used in those older models of the iPhones. 
    Apple, like most big companies in the phone business, keeps tight control of its supply chain. They react to demand and adjust component orders accordingly. This applies to all phones currently in production.

    TSMC has a long queue of customers and rumours say it is already producing processors on its second generation 7nm process.

    Huawei and Apple were the first companies to receive chips from the 7nm process but there is still a lot of demand for other chips.

    Huawei has just announced a new range of AI chips (12nm and 7nm) which I believe TSMC will produce and there are rumours of a Kirin 990 for February 2019, also to be produced by TSMC. Many other companies too.
    You seem to miss the fact that TMSC continues to rum many nodes that are not leading edge, as customers continue to run components that are not required to be either power efficient or performant, or have products that are good enough for the markets that they do not require the latest nodes, architectures, or designs.

    I don't read much into this at all either way for Apple. While you tout 990 production by February, Apple will almost certainly be in volume production for the A13 by late spring. I"m not seeing much advantage to Huawei's attempts to deliver new SOC's at this fast pace. Please note that the 980 was notably less performant than the A12, so it would be likely that the 990 would at best match the A12 with the 2nd generation process, but whatever.

    I would also note that Apple does in fact have many processors not destined for the iPhone that could and do use the latest nodes, as well as other the are on older
    processes.

    https://www.fudzilla.com/news/pc-hardware/47430-tsmc-expects-10-per-cent-of-sales-to-be-7nm


    I'm not missing any fact. That is why I specifically mentioned the 12nm process. You must have missed that.

    If the Kirin 990 exists, it is already in production. The most likely change is Balong 5000 integration. Supposing that is true then the Kirin 1020 will go into production around the same time as the A13 (just like the Kirin 980 and A12 were in production together).

    Add on all the customers that were lining up for capacity and TSMC looks to be in good shape into 2019.
    My point was that 7nm was only about 10% of TMSC's revenue for 2018, see link, so using that data for insight on Apple's production is not going to be useful.
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