Google's Pichai denies any political bias in search results during lengthy Congressional t...

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  • Reply 21 of 86
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t think Google modifies search results to lean left or right (as Trump claims). In fact, it would make more sense to show results consistent with what the specific user wants, not to force something on them that’s different from their views.

    That said, I’m not convinced Google doesn’t alter results based on monetary issues (such as paid advertisers). Or lets results of their own products climb higher in the rankings than they normally would. 
    I actually believe Google is doing this. I've seen a ton of people testing the search results and more than 97% of the results are from liberal outlets when you Google things such as Trump news. I've tested this myself and saw the same results. There wasn't one conservative news source in the first few pages of results.Some mathematician published a report from about this and all his findings indicated Google is doing this. From Google firing James Damore, to the leaked e-mail where Google employees talk about burying conservative sites after Trump won the election, I think there is enough evidence that shows Google is more than likely manipulating its algorithm to favor left leaning sites. 
    Have you done the exact same searches with Bing and DDG and Yahoo to see how the results differ? That might be an idea. 
    Actually I have. I tried Bing and DDG and both had conservative sites in the search results unlike Google. 
    It would intesting to put up the exact string and allow each of us to paste in an image of our results. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 86
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t think Google modifies search results to lean left or right (as Trump claims). In fact, it would make more sense to show results consistent with what the specific user wants, not to force something on them that’s different from their views.

    That said, I’m not convinced Google doesn’t alter results based on monetary issues (such as paid advertisers). Or lets results of their own products climb higher in the rankings than they normally would. 
    I actually believe Google is doing this. I've seen a ton of people testing the search results and more than 97% of the results are from liberal outlets when you Google things such as Trump news. I've tested this myself and saw the same results. There wasn't one conservative news source in the first few pages of results.Some mathematician published a report from about this and all his findings indicated Google is doing this. From Google firing James Damore, to the leaked e-mail where Google employees talk about burying conservative sites after Trump won the election, I think there is enough evidence that shows Google is more than likely manipulating its algorithm to favor left leaning sites. 
    Have you done the exact same searches with Bing and DDG and Yahoo to see how the results differ? That might be an idea. 
    Actually I have. I tried Bing and DDG and both had conservative sites in the search results unlike Google. 
    How about an example we can try for ourselves?
    I was using the term "Trump news" when I tested this out. I tried this while reading an article about a week ago and I saw the same results as what was claimed in the article. I obviously don't have concrete evidence Google is doing this, but from what I've seen and what others have reported, I have come to the conclusion Google is in fact doing this. 
    SpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 86
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,521member
    What law prohibits a corporation from being politically biased? (don't say first amendment; that applies to government rules, not corporations)
  • Reply 24 of 86
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,805member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t think Google modifies search results to lean left or right (as Trump claims). In fact, it would make more sense to show results consistent with what the specific user wants, not to force something on them that’s different from their views.

    That said, I’m not convinced Google doesn’t alter results based on monetary issues (such as paid advertisers). Or lets results of their own products climb higher in the rankings than they normally would. 
    I actually believe Google is doing this. I've seen a ton of people testing the search results and more than 97% of the results are from liberal outlets when you Google things such as Trump news. I've tested this myself and saw the same results. There wasn't one conservative news source in the first few pages of results.Some mathematician published a report from about this and all his findings indicated Google is doing this. From Google firing James Damore, to the leaked e-mail where Google employees talk about burying conservative sites after Trump won the election, I think there is enough evidence that shows Google is more than likely manipulating its algorithm to favor left leaning sites. 
    Have you done the exact same searches with Bing and DDG and Yahoo to see how the results differ? That might be an idea. 
    Actually I have. I tried Bing and DDG and both had conservative sites in the search results unlike Google. 
    How about an example we can try for ourselves?
    I was using the term "Trump news" when I tested this out. I tried this while reading an article about a week ago and I saw the same results as what was claimed in the article. I obviously don't have concrete evidence Google is doing this, but from what I've seen and what others have reported, I have come to the conclusion Google is in fact doing this. 
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t think Google modifies search results to lean left or right (as Trump claims). In fact, it would make more sense to show results consistent with what the specific user wants, not to force something on them that’s different from their views.

    That said, I’m not convinced Google doesn’t alter results based on monetary issues (such as paid advertisers). Or lets results of their own products climb higher in the rankings than they normally would. 
    I actually believe Google is doing this. I've seen a ton of people testing the search results and more than 97% of the results are from liberal outlets when you Google things such as Trump news. I've tested this myself and saw the same results. There wasn't one conservative news source in the first few pages of results.Some mathematician published a report from about this and all his findings indicated Google is doing this. From Google firing James Damore, to the leaked e-mail where Google employees talk about burying conservative sites after Trump won the election, I think there is enough evidence that shows Google is more than likely manipulating its algorithm to favor left leaning sites. 
    Have you done the exact same searches with Bing and DDG and Yahoo to see how the results differ? That might be an idea. 
    Actually I have. I tried Bing and DDG and both had conservative sites in the search results unlike Google. 
    How about an example we can try for ourselves?
    I was using the term "Trump news" when I tested this out. I tried this while reading an article about a week ago and I saw the same results as what was claimed in the article. I obviously don't have concrete evidence Google is doing this, but from what I've seen and what others have reported, I have come to the conclusion Google is in fact doing this. 
    So the top results if you use that search string right now? #1 from Fox News. 2 is  from CNBC, 3rd is ABC News and then followed by several Twitter links to Trump's account. No evidence of bias there IMHO.
  • Reply 25 of 86
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t think Google modifies search results to lean left or right (as Trump claims). In fact, it would make more sense to show results consistent with what the specific user wants, not to force something on them that’s different from their views.

    That said, I’m not convinced Google doesn’t alter results based on monetary issues (such as paid advertisers). Or lets results of their own products climb higher in the rankings than they normally would. 
    I actually believe Google is doing this. I've seen a ton of people testing the search results and more than 97% of the results are from liberal outlets when you Google things such as Trump news. I've tested this myself and saw the same results. There wasn't one conservative news source in the first few pages of results.Some mathematician published a report from about this and all his findings indicated Google is doing this. From Google firing James Damore, to the leaked e-mail where Google employees talk about burying conservative sites after Trump won the election, I think there is enough evidence that shows Google is more than likely manipulating its algorithm to favor left leaning sites. 
    Have you done the exact same searches with Bing and DDG and Yahoo to see how the results differ? That might be an idea. 
    Actually I have. I tried Bing and DDG and both had conservative sites in the search results unlike Google. 
    How about an example we can try for ourselves?
    I was using the term "Trump news" when I tested this out. I tried this while reading an article about a week ago and I saw the same results as what was claimed in the article. I obviously don't have concrete evidence Google is doing this, but from what I've seen and what others have reported, I have come to the conclusion Google is in fact doing this. 
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t think Google modifies search results to lean left or right (as Trump claims). In fact, it would make more sense to show results consistent with what the specific user wants, not to force something on them that’s different from their views.

    That said, I’m not convinced Google doesn’t alter results based on monetary issues (such as paid advertisers). Or lets results of their own products climb higher in the rankings than they normally would. 
    I actually believe Google is doing this. I've seen a ton of people testing the search results and more than 97% of the results are from liberal outlets when you Google things such as Trump news. I've tested this myself and saw the same results. There wasn't one conservative news source in the first few pages of results.Some mathematician published a report from about this and all his findings indicated Google is doing this. From Google firing James Damore, to the leaked e-mail where Google employees talk about burying conservative sites after Trump won the election, I think there is enough evidence that shows Google is more than likely manipulating its algorithm to favor left leaning sites. 
    Have you done the exact same searches with Bing and DDG and Yahoo to see how the results differ? That might be an idea. 
    Actually I have. I tried Bing and DDG and both had conservative sites in the search results unlike Google. 
    How about an example we can try for ourselves?
    I was using the term "Trump news" when I tested this out. I tried this while reading an article about a week ago and I saw the same results as what was claimed in the article. I obviously don't have concrete evidence Google is doing this, but from what I've seen and what others have reported, I have come to the conclusion Google is in fact doing this. 
    So the top results if you use that search string right now? #1 from Fox News. 2 is  from CNBC, 3rd is ABC News and then followed by several Twitter links to Trump's account. No evidence of bias there IMHO.
    Did you click on the news tab after you did your search? From my previous post when others tested this out, it was the results listed under the news tab. I tried it now and came up with same thing on main search and mostly all left leaning sites under the news tab. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 86
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,805member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t think Google modifies search results to lean left or right (as Trump claims). In fact, it would make more sense to show results consistent with what the specific user wants, not to force something on them that’s different from their views.

    That said, I’m not convinced Google doesn’t alter results based on monetary issues (such as paid advertisers). Or lets results of their own products climb higher in the rankings than they normally would. 
    I actually believe Google is doing this. I've seen a ton of people testing the search results and more than 97% of the results are from liberal outlets when you Google things such as Trump news. I've tested this myself and saw the same results. There wasn't one conservative news source in the first few pages of results.Some mathematician published a report from about this and all his findings indicated Google is doing this. From Google firing James Damore, to the leaked e-mail where Google employees talk about burying conservative sites after Trump won the election, I think there is enough evidence that shows Google is more than likely manipulating its algorithm to favor left leaning sites. 
    Have you done the exact same searches with Bing and DDG and Yahoo to see how the results differ? That might be an idea. 
    Actually I have. I tried Bing and DDG and both had conservative sites in the search results unlike Google. 
    How about an example we can try for ourselves?
    I was using the term "Trump news" when I tested this out. I tried this while reading an article about a week ago and I saw the same results as what was claimed in the article. I obviously don't have concrete evidence Google is doing this, but from what I've seen and what others have reported, I have come to the conclusion Google is in fact doing this. 
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t think Google modifies search results to lean left or right (as Trump claims). In fact, it would make more sense to show results consistent with what the specific user wants, not to force something on them that’s different from their views.

    That said, I’m not convinced Google doesn’t alter results based on monetary issues (such as paid advertisers). Or lets results of their own products climb higher in the rankings than they normally would. 
    I actually believe Google is doing this. I've seen a ton of people testing the search results and more than 97% of the results are from liberal outlets when you Google things such as Trump news. I've tested this myself and saw the same results. There wasn't one conservative news source in the first few pages of results.Some mathematician published a report from about this and all his findings indicated Google is doing this. From Google firing James Damore, to the leaked e-mail where Google employees talk about burying conservative sites after Trump won the election, I think there is enough evidence that shows Google is more than likely manipulating its algorithm to favor left leaning sites. 
    Have you done the exact same searches with Bing and DDG and Yahoo to see how the results differ? That might be an idea. 
    Actually I have. I tried Bing and DDG and both had conservative sites in the search results unlike Google. 
    How about an example we can try for ourselves?
    I was using the term "Trump news" when I tested this out. I tried this while reading an article about a week ago and I saw the same results as what was claimed in the article. I obviously don't have concrete evidence Google is doing this, but from what I've seen and what others have reported, I have come to the conclusion Google is in fact doing this. 
    So the top results if you use that search string right now? #1 from Fox News. 2 is  from CNBC, 3rd is ABC News and then followed by several Twitter links to Trump's account. No evidence of bias there IMHO.
    Did you click on the news tab after you did your search? From my previous post when others tested this out, it was the results listed under the news tab. I tried it now and came up with same thing on main search and mostly all left leaning sites under the news tab. 
    I searched Trump News as you suggested. I didn't bother digging in deep and to be honest didn't even see a separate "News" tab. I'll look again.

    EDIT: So you don't want all the results but only the ones listed under the little "NEWS" menu? Okay, now I get NYTimes first followed by Fox News as the 2nd result. 
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 27 of 86
    steven n. said:
    Most (almost all??) of the bias in Google search results comes from the user themselves. A few years ago, I tested this with 2 friends. One if very left and the other very right. They each brought their personal laptops to a local micro-brew with free WiFi (Like, who doesn't have free WiFi anymore) and each entered the same exact search terms.

    The biggest differences were on the term "Global Warming". Each result 100% validated their own held beliefs.

    Each individual gets to control Google's search results biases and Google allows each of us to live in a self confirming confirmation bias bubble.
    This is the truth, but few will hear it or want to because It could mean they are wrong. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 86
    Well, if he said that there is no bias, then there is no bias. Case closed. /s
    What evidence do you provide to the contrary? Any? None? Old white guys having no clue how technical things work won't do, sorry. That includes congressmen and the president.


    1. Evidence is that in the last 1/2 a year a lot of people were banned from platform, mostly right wingers. It was so obvious that it required a congress committee to question that. Some of those were right wing clowns, just like the clowns on the left. But the clowns from the left were not banned for hate speech ( aka  “community” rules) despite them preaching hate, while the right wingers were. I do not support a lot of those folks, but I disagree with censorship, especially when it is done very dishonestly, like facebook and youtube did.

    2. Why did you bring the race in your response? Are you racist? Or do you have evidence old people of other races understand the tech better? What relevance that remarked had to the conversation in question?

    it would be good, if you could think through your response, before you typed it. But the MSM training kicked in before you could.
    Nope, that isn’t evidence. That’s poorly behaving people getting banned for violatating the rules of private platforms. 

    I brought up “old white guys” because that’s who congress is, who asked all the dumb questions. What part are you struggling with?

    Oh! The MSM! Boo! Hiss! 

    lol. you people. 
    dewme
  • Reply 29 of 86
    Well, if he said that there is no bias, then there is no bias. Case closed. /s
    What evidence do you provide to the contrary? Any? None? Old white guys having no clue how technical things work won't do, sorry. That includes congressmen and the president.


    We would never know, au contraire or not. That's why there is benefit of the doubt.
  • Reply 30 of 86
    Well, if he said that there is no bias, then there is no bias. Case closed. /s
    What evidence do you provide to the contrary? Any? None? Old white guys having no clue how technical things work won't do, sorry. That includes congressmen and the president.
    Please stop using the ageist, racist and sexist phrase “old white guys.”
  • Reply 31 of 86
    dewmedewme Posts: 1,894member
    This congressional hearing was simply the latest episode of this season’s Bloviation Theatre series. The theme of this episode was, “How a sample size of one should be inferred to represent a statisticaly relevant trend.” Not sure who the intended audience was for this painfully embarrassing episode, but I fully expect the series will be renewed for a 243rd season. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 86
    gatorguy said:
    georgie01 said:
    It can be very difficult to believe someone in an authoritative position because too many times we’ve seen people like that clearly lie, even testifying in court. They play games with words or facts that any idiot knows is a lie but at face value eludes accountability.

    Who knows if he’s telling the truth, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t and that he was being knowingly misleading. 
    Most likely he knows very well what he is doing. He is not an idiot and certainly can understand what is going on, which leaves me no other option but to conclude his malicious intent for “greater good”.
    What malicious intent are you referring to? Are you claiming that there is intentional search bias in place from Google to disadvantage conservatives (!) and if so what evidence of it do you have? If it is simply your opinion that search results are being intentionally manipulated to "hide the truth" then fair enough. We all have opinions. 
    Malicious intent of platforming people with certain political views, that companies do not support, of course. Yes, there IS intentional bias in the company so much so that when facts are stated by one of the employees, that gets that person fired from the company. Dont tell me there is no bias, and a person got fired for being a nazi.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 86
    Well, if he said that there is no bias, then there is no bias. Case closed. /s
    What evidence do you provide to the contrary? Any? None? Old white guys having no clue how technical things work won't do, sorry. That includes congressmen and the president.


    That’s a bit racist and misandrist, but i guess racism against white People is polically correct these days. 
    edited December 2018 SpamSandwichtoysandme
  • Reply 34 of 86
    Well, if he said that there is no bias, then there is no bias. Case closed. /s
    What evidence do you provide to the contrary? Any? None? Old white guys having no clue how technical things work won't do, sorry. That includes congressmen and the president.


    1. Evidence is that in the last 1/2 a year a lot of people were banned from platform, mostly right wingers. It was so obvious that it required a congress committee to question that. Some of those were right wing clowns, just like the clowns on the left. But the clowns from the left were not banned for hate speech ( aka  “community” rules) despite them preaching hate, while the right wingers were. I do not support a lot of those folks, but I disagree with censorship, especially when it is done very dishonestly, like facebook and youtube did.

    2. Why did you bring the race in your response? Are you racist? Or do you have evidence old people of other races understand the tech better? What relevance that remarked had to the conversation in question?

    it would be good, if you could think through your response, before you typed it. But the MSM training kicked in before you could.
    Nope, that isn’t evidence. That’s poorly behaving people getting banned for violatating the rules of private platforms. 

    I brought up “old white guys” because that’s who congress is, who asked all the dumb questions. What part are you struggling with?

    Oh! The MSM! Boo! Hiss! 

    lol. you people. 
    Behaving badly? Nah. The company does not apply policies the same way to every user. It is a fact that is easily provable. That is the problem. They are just being dishonest about what they do. They do not deplatform those who “behave badly” (whatever that means to you). They deplatform only those who create a strong enough opinion that they do not like. Antifa with their literal terorist actions are rarely banned for saying things for which a right winger will get banned for life and across multiple platforms. Dont tell me that it is just about “people behaving badly”, ‘cause it clearly isnt. It is quite clear that the only set of standards those companies operate on are a set of double standards.
    Also, since when you have decided the companies should be patrolling morality? I thought it is the job of the right wingers to do that with their abortion bullshit. I guess, I was wrong. The evangelical part of the right and modern “liberal” left are both equally authoritarian. 
    lol indeed. You think you better than the right wingers?. Nah, pal. You are JUST LIKE THEM.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 35 of 86
    Google has been mofifying results in search and youtube to suit varying agendas for a long time. 

    When you simply type a name or subject with prominent info aligning with googles politricks, and its difficult to find compareable counter info that’s apples to apples (i.e. c.s. Lewis vs. Tolkien and not Tolkien vs a 5th grader writing their first story), its a bit weird. Four a while, the standard algorithm was returning results based on popular searches. But when a google ally was making news for unfavorable search suggestions, it was quickly altered. You don’t see that happening in favor of say Donald trumps etc. 

    to say there is no bias is just lying. 

    Everyone is biased. But there’s a limit to how much you cash do with it when occupying a position of “authority.”
    anton zuykovwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 86
    maestro64 said:
    My take away from the hearing, there may not be direct pollical bias, meaning Google is not making the algorithm respond in a particular political way. However, its more clear that end users know how Google's algorithm's work and the exploit it to their advantage.  The example they use in the hearing search idiot and get Trump picture, so end users are all tagging Trumps photos with the word idiot so when google craws around the web, it finds a bunch of website with Trumps picture tagged with idiot. So now Trumps picture is now associated with Idiot. I am not say that Google employees are not doing some other own software magic of their owns to skew results, I have seen this on no political things so they are doing it.

    This is no different than the problem Amazon is having with company trashing competitors reputation to rank them lower. Amazon is finding Chinese and Indian companies have figure out how the Amazon AI works on ranking products and they are using the AI against the competitors. The one example is posting negative reviews about a competitors product moves them down the list. Also making claims the products are counterfeit and will automatically cause a company be set to inactive while Amazon investigate. This weekend I went to order something,  found a couple companies offering the same product and one company had a lower price, of course I order from them. Only problem Amazon would not allow me to place it in my cart, thought it was problem with the iPhone app so I went to the computer and could not find the seller with the lower price only the one with the higher price. Amazon disable the account right as I tried to order it, went back to the phone app and it was still there and I looked at the reviews and someone was claiming it was counterfeit. When I refreshed the app the seller was gone on the phone as well. 

    In the end if you automate things, humans are still smarter than computers and AI systems can be analyzed to figure out what they are doing and then work with it or around it to accomplish your goals. Whether it is associating the word "Idiot" with Trump or taking out your competition with fake bad reviews, the systems can be manipulated once you see the trends and what they are doing.
    Google’s alg is not that dumb and without knowing how their algs perform exaclty, doing what you have described with images and key words will not work. Sorry, this is not 1990s anymore..
  • Reply 37 of 86
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,911member
    steven n. said:
    Most (almost all??) of the bias in Google search results comes from the user themselves. A few years ago, I tested this with 2 friends. One if very left and the other very right. They each brought their personal laptops to a local micro-brew with free WiFi (Like, who doesn't have free WiFi anymore) and each entered the same exact search terms.

    The biggest differences were on the term "Global Warming". Each result 100% validated their own held beliefs.

    Each individual gets to control Google's search results biases and Google allows each of us to live in a self confirming confirmation bias bubble.
    Thanks for sharing this. While this is just an anecdote, this has indeed been noted by many other people and repeatedly demonstrated. It is in itself a dangerous technique. I personally don’t want search engines guessing what political stance I have or “guessing” what’s relevant to me as a market. I want useful search results for info that are not distorted by even my own political or ideological positions.

    As I said above, the internet is far less useful than it was between 1998 and 2010, thanks to all this SEO and “aimed at specific users” nonsense. Google can kill the algorithms that turn search results into echo chambers, though I suspect they don’t want to because of their data collection and advertising interests (but what can be done about SEO abuse??).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 86
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,805member
    gatorguy said:
    georgie01 said:
    It can be very difficult to believe someone in an authoritative position because too many times we’ve seen people like that clearly lie, even testifying in court. They play games with words or facts that any idiot knows is a lie but at face value eludes accountability.

    Who knows if he’s telling the truth, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t and that he was being knowingly misleading. 
    Most likely he knows very well what he is doing. He is not an idiot and certainly can understand what is going on, which leaves me no other option but to conclude his malicious intent for “greater good”.
    What malicious intent are you referring to? Are you claiming that there is intentional search bias in place from Google to disadvantage conservatives (!) and if so what evidence of it do you have? If it is simply your opinion that search results are being intentionally manipulated to "hide the truth" then fair enough. We all have opinions. 
    Malicious intent of platforming people with certain political views, that companies do not support, of course. Yes, there IS intentional bias in the company so much so that when facts are stated by one of the employees, that gets that person fired from the company. Dont tell me there is no bias, and a person got fired for being a nazi.
    What does that have to do with Google Search results? Of course people in offices and stores and schools and neighborhoods have biases, including people they like and people they don't, you and me included.

    "IN JANUARY (2018), FIRED Google engineer James Damore filed a lawsuit alleging that Google discriminated against white men and political conservatives. On Wednesday (February/18) , another former Google engineer, Tim Chevalier, sued the company for firing him for posting what he calls politically liberal content, including criticism of Damore, on Google’s internal message boards."

    So which is it: Google fires employees for being too liberal or instead for being too conservative? The simple answer: Disruptive employees often get fired no matter what viewpoint they're using to negatively interfere with the business and or create a hostile workplace.  It's a simple concept, particularly if you've ever had to manage anything in business. Ever manage anything? 


    So to repeat, do you have any proof whatsoever that the Google Search algorithms are intentionally designed to introduce political bias favoring one party over another? Anything? Are you considering perhaps it's your own bias rearing its head? 
    edited December 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 39 of 86
    This is just part of the ongoing saga....   There has been a concerted campaign going on for years to bully independent agencies -- from the IRS to the FBI to mainstream media and now Google into giving right wing extremists preferential treatment.  The usual tactic is for them to play the victim and claim equivalencies that are false.
  • Reply 40 of 86
    maestro64 said:
    The example they use in the hearing search idiot and get Trump picture, so end users are all tagging Trumps photos with the word idiot so when google craws around the web, it finds a bunch of website with Trumps picture tagged with idiot. So now Trumps picture is now associated with Idiot. 

    If I search "idiot" on Bing or Yahoo, Trump is also among the top image hits. So multiple major search engines agree on the relevance of that association.
    edited December 2018 dewmeGeorgeBMac
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