Apple TV is kind of a flop. But, Apple’s services business is going strong.
Samsung makes good TV’s but there is little to differentiate between them and LG (for example). Samsung has never done will with services or software. It makes sense Samsung would want part of that 30% iTunes profit. Apple wants to expand the number of devices available to run its services, this accomplishes that.
This feels like part of a bigger strategy.
Quote: “Samsung's mobile and components business both comprise nearly half of its sales, but the majority of its profit -- in the case of the first quarter, about 75 percent -- comes from its chip business.}
Samsung isn’t making much on mobile phones. They ironically make their money on Apple’s. Ads against Apple to switch to an Android seem self defeating.
I wonder if Samsung is going to deprioritize their mobile phone business and stop competing with their partners. Samsung would still make a bundle on selling memory/SSDs/CPUs etc. to Android (+ Apple) partners. They might even be inclined to give Samsung more hardware business.
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation. I do wonder what these moves mean for Siri. Apple Music doesn’t use Siri on Echo devices and I’m guessing this new Samsung iTunes app won’t have it either. So is Apple treating Siri as just a feature of Apple’s OSes instead of a service itself? Honestly if the company is moving to a services model and making those services cross platform they might as well do it with Siri as well. Treat Siri as it’s own product/service instead of an OS feature.
Apple isn't admitting anything, so stop with the bullshit.
Echo devices sound like complete garbage compared to the HomePod, so why are you even comparing them? HomePod sales should be compared to Sonos or Bose, not the Echo. Apple TV isn't overpriced for what you get. If you only stream content it's overkill. But if you want to play games or run other Apps it's far more powerful than anything else on the market.
And your assertion that Apple is "transitioning to a services company" is also wrong. Apple is transitioning into a premium hardware AND services company. Their hardware sales aren't going anywhere and will be a $200 billion cash cow every year for many years to come. It's now going to be joined by a very profitable services company as well.
Games are not played all that much on the AppleTV. Hardly anyone talks about gaming for it other than it really doesn’t exist.
Tell that to my kids and their friends. I’m not claiming the Apple TV is anywhere near as popular as an Xbox or Playstation. However, there are some really good games for it.
I could see the current Apple TV become a game streaming platform similar to what Nvidia offers, and continue tie into the rest of Apple services. Apple already has the relationships with the Windows/Console gaming companies.
Samsung TVs could include everything but the high end gaming, and include a lesser processor that would still run all the ITunes Apps.
Basically, Samsung TV would include Samsung hardware but replace all the software with Apple’s. Samsung’s OS is a waste of resources and eliminated.
If that’s the case, yes Samsung TV would run iMessage, have access to calendars, contacts, etc.
The processor would need to be an A series to maintain security. Samsung wouldn’t have a problem manufacturing it...
This sounds like this is the Apple TV that people have wanted, it will just be called a Samsung TV.
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation. I do wonder what these moves mean for Siri. Apple Music doesn’t use Siri on Echo devices and I’m guessing this new Samsung iTunes app won’t have it either. So is Apple treating Siri as just a feature of Apple’s OSes instead of a service itself? Honestly if the company is moving to a services model and making those services cross platform they might as well do it with Siri as well. Treat Siri as it’s own product/service instead of an OS feature.
Apple TV isn't overpriced for what you get. If you only stream content it's overkill. But if you want to play games or run other Apps it's far more powerful than anything else on the market.
.
I'm curious. Is it better than a three year old Shield TV which is also cheaper and has a good game controller available for it?
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation. I do wonder what these moves mean for Siri. Apple Music doesn’t use Siri on Echo devices and I’m guessing this new Samsung iTunes app won’t have it either. So is Apple treating Siri as just a feature of Apple’s OSes instead of a service itself? Honestly if the company is moving to a services model and making those services cross platform they might as well do it with Siri as well. Treat Siri as it’s own product/service instead of an OS feature.
Apple TV isn't overpriced for what you get. If you only stream content it's overkill. But if you want to play games or run other Apps it's far more powerful than anything else on the market.
.
I'm curious. Is it better than a three year old Shield TV which is also cheaper and has a good game controller available for it?
The A10X runs circles around a Shield TV. The best part about the Shield is the GPU, but even then the A10X is superior. Anywhere from 30% (worst case) to a full 100% (best case) faster.
On the CPU side an A10X slaughters the Shield, not surprising since it runs A57 cores. The A10X is literally more than 2X as fast single or multi core.
This doesn’t even take into account that the Shield runs Android and thus has an inferior selection of Apps to use to take advantage of a fast processor.
I meant for doing the job it was designed to do. Up to 4K playback. Gaming platform (you specifically mentioned games). Remote and local streaming. External storage. Official Netflix and Plex server support.
The system is the least of users worries. Which apps is a Shield TV user likely to need that require more power?
Of course you did. Always trying to reduce the functionality of Apple devices down to their basics so you can claim they are no better than other available products. At least you’re consistent.
Who said it’s only designed for 4K playback? Apple sure doesn’t, so I’m not sure how’s you can come to that conclusion.
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation. I do wonder what these moves mean for Siri. Apple Music doesn’t use Siri on Echo devices and I’m guessing this new Samsung iTunes app won’t have it either. So is Apple treating Siri as just a feature of Apple’s OSes instead of a service itself? Honestly if the company is moving to a services model and making those services cross platform they might as well do it with Siri as well. Treat Siri as it’s own product/service instead of an OS feature.
Apple TV isn't overpriced for what you get. If you only stream content it's overkill. But if you want to play games or run other Apps it's far more powerful than anything else on the market.
.
I'm curious. Is it better than a three year old Shield TV which is also cheaper and has a good game controller available for it?
The A10X runs circles around a Shield TV.
Wha...? You believe the AppleTV is a more capable streaming and gaming device than a Shield? You say "Apple TV isn't overpriced for what you get. If you only stream content it's overkill. But if you want to play games or run other Apps it's far more powerful than anything else on the market." I have both... Perhaps you've not ever used a Shield or familiar with its features and capabilities. https://9to5google.com/2019/01/04/nvidia-shield-tv-review/
I said it’s far more powerful, which it absolutely is. You’re seriously not going to claim a Tegra X1 is anywhere near an A10X, are you?
Of course none of the readers here would ever buy a ”Scamsung” TV, right?
/s
Gave up on their crap, phony standards years ago. Of the 4 Samsung TV sets I owned over the years - 3 had recalls! 2 of those as a result of class action suits by consumers. The last was the proverbial straw that resulted from Samsung substituting 10-year-old condensers someone found in a warehouse for a production run. Sets failed between 1-2 years outside the warranty.
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation.
i wonder if Apple will offer iMessage and FaceTime on Android soon?
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation.
i wonder if Apple will offer iMessage and FaceTime on Android soon?
Agree re: Sonos. The day Apple puts FaceTime and/or iMessage on Android is the day iPhone is over. It if Cook is serious about speeding up this services narrative to appease Wall Street I could see it happening.
Uh, why on earth would they? How would iMessage or FaceTime on Android provide any benefit whatsoever to Apple?
For $15 or $20 dollars a month maybe they would. But they would be nuts to do it for less.
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation. I do wonder what these moves mean for Siri. Apple Music doesn’t use Siri on Echo devices and I’m guessing this new Samsung iTunes app won’t have it either. So is Apple treating Siri as just a feature of Apple’s OSes instead of a service itself? Honestly if the company is moving to a services model and making those services cross platform they might as well do it with Siri as well. Treat Siri as it’s own product/service instead of an OS feature.
Apple TV isn't overpriced for what you get. If you only stream content it's overkill. But if you want to play games or run other Apps it's far more powerful than anything else on the market.
.
I'm curious. Is it better than a three year old Shield TV which is also cheaper and has a good game controller available for it?
The A10X runs circles around a Shield TV.
Wha...? You believe the AppleTV is a more capable streaming and gaming device than a Shield? You say "Apple TV isn't overpriced for what you get. If you only stream content it's overkill. But if you want to play games or run other Apps it's far more powerful than anything else on the market." I have both... Perhaps you've not ever used a Shield or familiar with its features and capabilities. https://9to5google.com/2019/01/04/nvidia-shield-tv-review/
I said it’s far more powerful, which it absolutely is. You’re seriously not going to claim a Tegra X1 is anywhere near an A10X, are you?
Eric, you very specifically said if you wanted to play games the AppleTV was far more powerful than anything on the market. You moving the goalposts and stripping it down to just comparing one component from the whole does still not make it a more powerful, capable gaming or streaming device. You simply misspoke, unless you want to continue to claim the AppleTV to be the better gaming platform of the two and that's so easily proved wrong I don't know why you'd even bother.
I could see the current Apple TV become a game streaming platform similar to what Nvidia offers, and continue tie into the rest of Apple services. Apple already has the relationships with the Windows/Console gaming companies.
Samsung TVs could include everything but the high end gaming, and include a lesser processor that would still run all the ITunes Apps.
Basically, Samsung TV would include Samsung hardware but replace all the software with Apple’s. Samsung’s OS is a waste of resources and eliminated.
If that’s the case, yes Samsung TV would run iMessage, have access to calendars, contacts, etc.
The processor would need to be an A series to maintain security. Samsung wouldn’t have a problem manufacturing it...
This sounds like this is the Apple TV that people have wanted, it will just be called a Samsung TV.
I cannot believe you're floating this as a real idea. You're joking, right?
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation.
i wonder if Apple will offer iMessage and FaceTime on Android soon?
Apple is transitioning from a premium products company to a services everywhere company. And with this and Apple Music on Echo devices they’re admitting Apple TV and HomePod are overpriced. I fully expect to see a cheap Apple TV dongle this spring, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the HomePod goes the way of the iPod HiFi and we never see a second generation.
i wonder if Apple will offer iMessage and FaceTime on Android soon?
Agree re: Sonos. The day Apple puts FaceTime and/or iMessage on Android is the day iPhone is over. It if Cook is serious about speeding up this services narrative to appease Wall Street I could see it happening.
Uh, why on earth would they? How would iMessage or FaceTime on Android provide any benefit whatsoever to Apple?
For $15 or $20 dollars a month maybe they would. But they would be nuts to do it for less.
You're the one that's nuts. Nobody is going to pay $240 a year to use iMessage/FaceTime on an Android phone. Why would they? Apple's not going to sell out the tentpole features that push iPhones out the door so they can be more shittily implemented on some other random Android build. This is crazy talk.
It is kind of interesting that Apple is doing this before they’ve actually shipped any original content (I’m not counting Planet of the Apps). I’m a little surprised they didn’t launch something to whet people’s appetite and get them excited for this service. As it is now there’s skepticism about this content being any good. Example below:
I signed up for HBO because of Game of Thrones a couple years ago. I wonder if Apple will try anything that ambitious (I'm not talking about the category) or will they play everything safe and avoid anything that may be too adult, too political, too intellectual, too _______, and in so doing it make it too boring.
Posted this elsewhere first, but no one has said I'm crazy yet. Also my first post here. I'm wondering if this decision might be a sign that Apple is finally about to enter into the smart tv market with an actual Apple TV. It’s a given that this has a lot to do with the upcoming subscription services and embracing an overall services-centered model, but I just wonder if this an attempt to reach out to those outside of the Apple ecosystem and prep them for a more ambitious play.
I've read a number of arguments over the years for why Apple shouldn’t/wouldn’t enter into the TV market. Most of them boil down to market saturation and thin profit margins. Apple itself, seems uninterested in entering into new markets unless they feel that they can offer something new, if not unique. Pretty reasonable arguments for yesterday. I’d say that’s about to change and we all knew it was coming. An actual Apple TV would be a fantastic hub (if not one of many) for a services centered Apple. Perhaps better than the iPhone. Plenty of smart TVs offer some form of home automation functionality, music/media streaming, you can plug an xbox or ps4 into any of them, and the historical awful UI of today’s cable boxes/services is now optional thanks to the leverage of cable-cutters.
Imagine an actual Apple TV with a more powerful Siri, that properly integrated HomePod, future HomePod/AirPod products, and Dolby Atmos. It would have to have stunning screen, maybe 8K OLED or Micro LED, with an expanded color gamut. An array of depth-cameras and sensors integrated into a thin bezel could enable new functionality to HomeKit and HealthKit connected devices (maybe even gaming–gasp!), all while protecting your privacy. It could be beautiful and it would cost, of course, but it could be incredibly strategic–a beautiful, big gate to Apple’s walled garden. I can’t believe that Apple will be satisfied with Samsung’s badge on the gate. We’ve already seen them realize this with the Cinema Displays. If I’m a services based Apple that still produces hardware, this has to happen.
I'll admit up front that I don't have Apple TV now (I have an old one two or three generations back) but ever since Walt Mossberg wrote that Jobs said he cracked TV I've wonder how it would be delivered. Now I believe that Siri has to be much better than what I've experience. It would have to be at least as good as Alexa or the Google Assistant for a TV product to take off. We are still waiting for the Cinema Display along with the new MacPro so the Full Integrated TV may be a while . I can't imagine it priced less than $2000.
Samsung, like Google, knows that Apple has the best and most lucrative ecosystem in the world. Why wouldn't they want iTunes/AirPlay on their TVs?
So Samsung is worthy of Apple’s services now?
Why not? Apple brought Apple Music to Android. How is this any different?
Besides, Samsung has failed miserably in their attempt to be like Apple with their own ecosystem, so why not hook up with a profitable one?
It's interesting how Samsung and Google don't seem to really get along. Google seems to screw their business partners more than Samsung. At least Samsung is a good component supplier.
It seems to me that Apple could just as easily have got into this game by producing a large display with an AppleTV stuck in it, and simultaneously also been in the Apple display market.
I suppose alliances are always shifting in this business. Apple did partner with Microsoft (remember Jobs getting booed in 1998?), with PCs, with Google, and with Android.
That said, the mention of “partnership with Samsung” still sticks in my craw.
I am guessing it’s going to to be good for AAPL tomorrow morning!
Posted this elsewhere first, but no one has said I'm crazy yet. Also my first post here. I'm wondering if this decision might be a sign that Apple is finally about to enter into the smart tv market with an actual Apple TV. It’s a given that this has a lot to do with the upcoming subscription services and embracing an overall services-centered model, but I just wonder if this an attempt to reach out to those outside of the Apple ecosystem and prep them for a more ambitious play.
I've read a number of arguments over the years for why Apple shouldn’t/wouldn’t enter into the TV market. Most of them boil down to market saturation and thin profit margins. Apple itself, seems uninterested in entering into new markets unless they feel that they can offer something new, if not unique. Pretty reasonable arguments for yesterday. I’d say that’s about to change and we all knew it was coming. An actual Apple TV would be a fantastic hub (if not one of many) for a services centered Apple. Perhaps better than the iPhone. Plenty of smart TVs offer some form of home automation functionality, music/media streaming, you can plug an xbox or ps4 into any of them, and the historical awful UI of today’s cable boxes/services is now optional thanks to the leverage of cable-cutters.
Imagine an actual Apple TV with a more powerful Siri, that properly integrated HomePod, future HomePod/AirPod products, and Dolby Atmos. It would have to have stunning screen, maybe 8K OLED or Micro LED, with an expanded color gamut. An array of depth-cameras and sensors integrated into a thin bezel could enable new functionality to HomeKit and HealthKit connected devices (maybe even gaming–gasp!), all while protecting your privacy. It could be beautiful and it would cost, of course, but it could be incredibly strategic–a beautiful, big gate to Apple’s walled garden. I can’t believe that Apple will be satisfied with Samsung’s badge on the gate. We’ve already seen them realize this with the Cinema Displays. If I’m a services based Apple that still produces hardware, this has to happen.
Samsung, like Google, knows that Apple has the best and most lucrative ecosystem in the world. Why wouldn't they want iTunes/AirPlay on their TVs?
So Samsung is worthy of Apple’s services now?
Why not? Apple brought Apple Music to Android. How is this any different?
Besides, Samsung has failed miserably in their attempt to be like Apple with their own ecosystem, so why not hook up with a profitable one?
Ah so basically anything Apple does is good simply because Apple is doing it. If Apple wants to throw its services on everyone else’s hardware fine. But it’s going to be a lot harder for Apple to sell premium hardware when someone can get their services on competitors (most likely cheaper) hardware. Anyway I suspect the 4K Apple TV box won’t be around much longer. Apple willl stick an iTunes (or whatever they call it in the future) app on every TV and probably Android too.
Apple can provide premium hardware so long as it can convince consumers of the value of the premium hardware / pricing. If it can't then it won't. [b]HomePod provides the value in the form of "studio quality" sound. [/b]Apple TV doesn't justify its premium pricing unless of course you view Siri integration is worth the premium price.
But how many really care about that? And those that do are probably buying something better than HomePod. We don’t know how well HomePod is selling but the fact that Apple doesn’t talk about it much indicates to me it’s not selling that well.
Comments
Apple TV is kind of a flop. But, Apple’s services business is going strong.
Samsung makes good TV’s but there is little to differentiate between them and LG (for example). Samsung has never done will with services or software. It makes sense Samsung would want part of that 30% iTunes profit. Apple wants to expand the number of devices available to run its services, this accomplishes that.
This feels like part of a bigger strategy.
Quote: “Samsung's mobile and components business both comprise nearly half of its sales, but the majority of its profit -- in the case of the first quarter, about 75 percent -- comes from its chip business.}
Samsung isn’t making much on mobile phones. They ironically make their money on Apple’s. Ads against Apple to switch to an Android seem self defeating.
I wonder if Samsung is going to deprioritize their mobile phone business and stop competing with their partners. Samsung would still make a bundle on selling memory/SSDs/CPUs etc. to Android (+ Apple) partners. They might even be inclined to give Samsung more hardware business.
If that’s the case, this is “good” news.
Tell that to my kids and their friends. I’m not claiming the Apple TV is anywhere near as popular as an Xbox or Playstation. However, there are some really good games for it.
Samsung TVs could include everything but the high end gaming, and include a lesser processor that would still run all the ITunes Apps.
Basically, Samsung TV would include Samsung hardware but replace all the software with Apple’s. Samsung’s OS is a waste of resources and eliminated.
If that’s the case, yes Samsung TV would run iMessage, have access to calendars, contacts, etc.
The processor would need to be an A series to maintain security. Samsung wouldn’t have a problem manufacturing it...
This sounds like this is the Apple TV that people have wanted, it will just be called a Samsung TV.
You believe the AppleTV is a more capable streaming and gaming device than a Shield?
You say "Apple TV isn't overpriced for what you get. If you only stream content it's overkill. But if you want to play games or run other Apps it's far more powerful than anything else on the market."
I have both...
Perhaps you've not ever used a Shield or familiar with its features and capabilities. Even three years later...
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/gaming/games-consoles/nvidia-shield-1287106/review
https://9to5google.com/2019/01/04/nvidia-shield-tv-review/
Of course you did. Always trying to reduce the functionality of Apple devices down to their basics so you can claim they are no better than other available products. At least you’re consistent.
Who said it’s only designed for 4K playback? Apple sure doesn’t, so I’m not sure how’s you can come to that conclusion.
I said it’s far more powerful, which it absolutely is. You’re seriously not going to claim a Tegra X1 is anywhere near an A10X, are you?
Never again.
You're the one that's nuts. Nobody is going to pay $240 a year to use iMessage/FaceTime on an Android phone. Why would they? Apple's not going to sell out the tentpole features that push iPhones out the door so they can be more shittily implemented on some other random Android build. This is crazy talk.
I signed up for HBO because of Game of Thrones a couple years ago. I wonder if Apple will try anything that ambitious (I'm not talking about the category) or will they play everything safe and avoid anything that may be too adult, too political, too intellectual, too _______, and in so doing it make it too boring.
https://www.apple.com/airplay/
I suppose it’s still not ruled out...
That said, the mention of “partnership with Samsung” still sticks in my craw.
I am guessing it’s going to to be good for AAPL tomorrow morning!
I had somehow missed it before I posted above.