<strong>I am getting worried for Apple when it comes to hardware. Of course I hope something GREAT comes out but I don't think so......at least not yet.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not by Apple, by Moto.
I hope Steve has really something as big as the G5 to announce before september 15th (even if new computers are available on November)
[quote]<strong>
NFor the next year I think Apple is going to move into multiple processors. I can see all PowerMacs having a 2 (or more) processors. OSX allows for this and can be done with relative ease.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
They started with XServe.
Maybe a 4U quad-processors coming soon ?
[quote]<strong>
At least this would give Apple a short-term marketing angle. The MHz is half of an Intel based processor but if you can market the frequency time 2 then it looks good heh!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Even with Altivec Apps, G4 are too slow.
If they didn't reach the 2.0GHz level befor end of year, they will loose market share (but iPod and .mac are here to make money <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> ).
[quote]<strong>
I'm opposed to the rumours of Apple moving to x86. I think it'd be Apple's doom. Instead I think we're going to see the G4 around in multiples and then maybe move to the POWER4 or 5 or some variant of it. Or maybe Steve has something else in line, but whatever it is I want to see the Macintosh be the PC hardware leader once again.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As usual there is a part of truth in rumors.
AMD providing Apple...
IBM and Power4/5...
Moto G5...
OS X on x86 (to replace NT based or Linux based PC)...
I want to see the Mac be the PC hardware leader too... but it's not with iPod or stuff like that it will be. They can bring iDevice if their maket is good but it's not the case.
Just a note, NV30 is expected to be very late, a November release or later. Don't expect anything new from nVidia in terms of video card options for the Power Macs coming in August.
Hm, I dont think there will be nVidia Chips onboard in the new PMs. Or, to say, I dont wish. I'd love to see the new Radeon 9000/Pro for it.
And its cheap, and fast, which would make sense for apple, wouldnt it? The new R300 is going to ship around the date when Apple is rumored to present the new G4s, so... maybe a nice BTO for a Rad9700 ;-)
As for the Mobo, I agree that nVidia has more *taken* the train rather than we take them ;-) And, for your reference, the nforce hasnt even live up close to the expectations, from what I have personally seen, VIA's latest are quite faster.
Take the Xserve: Apple is VERY well capable of creating a fast Memory Controller, and they also haven proven this in the past. Take the 9500, for example. The question is more if it wouldnt be cheaper to buy such chips rather than designing them. Given that there actually are decent chips around which there arent ;-)
What we AND Apple need for the upcoming PowerMac line is
- crossbaar memcon
- DDR RAM (at least 266)
- 1394b
- ATA 133 ! (Argh, the xserve doesnt have this)
as an option, AGP 8x would be cool prestige-wise, but its not as usefull as one might think. The only benefit sofar would be that the video system could pass the data faster, so the Memory bandwidth is free for the CPU(s) again. No game as of today requires AGP 8x and with the exception of Doom3 and UT2003 AGP 4x offers an average of 10..20% FPS boost over 2x, which shows that THIS is not the bottleneck. For now.
The ultimate most important thing is to get the Memory Bus Speed up, otherwise we continue to have such crippled mac as the Dual 1Ghz whose CPUs just cant get saturated with... SD-RAM (sound like a joke when I write about Dual 1Ghz and SDRAM...)
What about that UMA-2 studd and the apparent existing DDR MoBo from last year?
Now can the G4 speak DDR or cant it, oif only the Xserve G4 can, then this would mean apple would have had DDR capable prototype G4s for a year now...
Okay, can I get 3 opinions for this? I am hanging onto my bucks waiting for an upgrade for the 12 inch iBooks. REALISTICALLY, is this likely in the next two months? Thx for your responses.
<strong>Okay, can I get 3 opinions for this? I am hanging onto my bucks waiting for an upgrade for the 12 inch iBooks. REALISTICALLY, is this likely in the next two months? Thx for your responses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it's not in August, wait for Xmas and then wait for MWSF03 (next consumer show)
[quote]8x AGP will be incredibly useful for Pro Users with Quartz Extreme. <hr></blockquote>
Yup. Accellerating 3D and 2D are two different things. For 3D, you've got a high number of polygons and a low number of relatively small textures. With 2D, they've got a high number of HUGE textures, and a low number of polygons. bandwidth to the card is more important with 2D than 3D...
<strong>Yup. Accellerating 3D and 2D are two different things. For 3D, you've got a high number of polygons and a low number of relatively small textures. With 2D, they've got a high number of HUGE textures, and a low number of polygons. bandwidth to the card is more important with 2D than 3D...</strong><hr></blockquote>
This isn't necessarily true... textures can often be stored locally on the card (geometry can too in some situations, but less often), and geometry is usually larger than textures in high density polygon models. Remember than a texel is at most 4 bytes, but a complete vertex can be >64 bytes depending on whether normals, multipass UVs, colour components, etc are required. A scene with 100K of these vertices isn't much these days, and at 60Hz that will require 384 MB/sec all by itself... excluding any overhead, index tables, etc. If you look at the Radeon9700 the theoretical triangle rate is something like 325 Mtri/sec, so keeping this monster fed is going to require a huge amount of bandwidth -- possibly more than even AGP 8x can supply.
"If you don't expect too much from me, you might not be let down."
I wanna (expect)dual G4s at 1.4, and True DDR. FW2 and USB2 are way down on the list of my needs. I think we expect to have some new cases, and some killer stuff if/when the new Mobo arrives in August. No new Mobo?, no DDR?, then I cannot see a reason to upgrade. Crank that processor all you want, but lack of DDR is the whammy that is going to get Apple crucified, for 30 pieces of Quicksilver.
As shown Wednesday, no one knows what to expect. Look at all the people who poo-poo-ed the 17" iMac as impossible.
I expect (now on record) on new Mobo
single/dual 1ghz
dual 1.2
dual 1.4
All with superdrive, possibly left off the low-end. RAM 256 for all, and 512 for top of the line.
Real DDR- thats the "big bucks, no whammys" question.
Tears will flow if my darling little G4s continue to starve without DDR. Didn't we send in the Marines the last time there was a famine like this? Hey Stever- FEED my G4... RapidI/O, DDR. Puh-leez...
<strong>New Tibook, Towers, G4 ibook? What do we really have to count on in August besides Jaguar and when will Jaguar start shipping inside new machines? Oh and when is this date August 13?</strong><hr></blockquote>
nobody that knows anything is spilling their guts and we obviously need a mole inside the organization <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: fantastic happy dinner man ]</p>
Comments
<strong>I am getting worried for Apple when it comes to hardware. Of course I hope something GREAT comes out but I don't think so......at least not yet.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not by Apple, by Moto.
I hope Steve has really something as big as the G5 to announce before september 15th (even if new computers are available on November)
[quote]<strong>
NFor the next year I think Apple is going to move into multiple processors. I can see all PowerMacs having a 2 (or more) processors. OSX allows for this and can be done with relative ease.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
They started with XServe.
Maybe a 4U quad-processors coming soon ?
[quote]<strong>
At least this would give Apple a short-term marketing angle. The MHz is half of an Intel based processor but if you can market the frequency time 2 then it looks good heh!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Even with Altivec Apps, G4 are too slow.
If they didn't reach the 2.0GHz level befor end of year, they will loose market share (but iPod and .mac are here to make money <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> ).
[quote]<strong>
I'm opposed to the rumours of Apple moving to x86. I think it'd be Apple's doom. Instead I think we're going to see the G4 around in multiples and then maybe move to the POWER4 or 5 or some variant of it. Or maybe Steve has something else in line, but whatever it is I want to see the Macintosh be the PC hardware leader once again.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As usual there is a part of truth in rumors.
AMD providing Apple...
IBM and Power4/5...
Moto G5...
OS X on x86 (to replace NT based or Linux based PC)...
I want to see the Mac be the PC hardware leader too... but it's not with iPod or stuff like that it will be. They can bring iDevice if their maket is good but it's not the case.
MWNY02: <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>
I am happy to wait a while for a faster processor because I really think that A solid OS is far more important than the speed of a Computer.....
(..Anyone else share this view???)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes for the OS (it's the best and it will be improve). Thanks to UNIX (freebsd) and thank for Apple for the GUI.
Not for the speed. If you want to compete with PC, using the same app you need same or better speed; And don't forget the ratio Performance/Price...
MWNY02: <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
And its cheap, and fast, which would make sense for apple, wouldnt it? The new R300 is going to ship around the date when Apple is rumored to present the new G4s, so... maybe a nice BTO for a Rad9700 ;-)
As for the Mobo, I agree that nVidia has more *taken* the train rather than we take them ;-) And, for your reference, the nforce hasnt even live up close to the expectations, from what I have personally seen, VIA's latest are quite faster.
Take the Xserve: Apple is VERY well capable of creating a fast Memory Controller, and they also haven proven this in the past. Take the 9500, for example. The question is more if it wouldnt be cheaper to buy such chips rather than designing them. Given that there actually are decent chips around which there arent ;-)
What we AND Apple need for the upcoming PowerMac line is
- crossbaar memcon
- DDR RAM (at least 266)
- 1394b
- ATA 133 ! (Argh, the xserve doesnt have this)
as an option, AGP 8x would be cool prestige-wise, but its not as usefull as one might think. The only benefit sofar would be that the video system could pass the data faster, so the Memory bandwidth is free for the CPU(s) again. No game as of today requires AGP 8x and with the exception of Doom3 and UT2003 AGP 4x offers an average of 10..20% FPS boost over 2x, which shows that THIS is not the bottleneck. For now.
The ultimate most important thing is to get the Memory Bus Speed up, otherwise we continue to have such crippled mac as the Dual 1Ghz whose CPUs just cant get saturated with... SD-RAM (sound like a joke when I write about Dual 1Ghz and SDRAM...)
What about that UMA-2 studd and the apparent existing DDR MoBo from last year?
Now can the G4 speak DDR or cant it, oif only the Xserve G4 can, then this would mean apple would have had DDR capable prototype G4s for a year now...
AGP 8X
66MHz PCI
ATA-133
GeForce 4 MX standard, GeForce 4 Ti top end
Radeon 9000 & 9700 Optional
1GHz, 1.5GHz, Dual 1.25GHz G4s (166MHz MPX)
New, thinner, taller case
FireWire 2
Mac OS X Jaguar
Barto
But its not really a card that fits a "pro" system, which the G4 Towers are suggested to be, is it?
Not that it was a bad card though...
Ti4200 maybe?
Consider the R9000 is 109$ enduser, the 9000Pro 129$...
But nVidia might well speak up and tune the 4MX a little, which would turn the leave again
<strong>Okay, can I get 3 opinions for this? I am hanging onto my bucks waiting for an upgrade for the 12 inch iBooks. REALISTICALLY, is this likely in the next two months? Thx for your responses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it's not in August, wait for Xmas and then wait for MWSF03 (next consumer show)
MWNY02: <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Yup. Accellerating 3D and 2D are two different things. For 3D, you've got a high number of polygons and a low number of relatively small textures. With 2D, they've got a high number of HUGE textures, and a low number of polygons. bandwidth to the card is more important with 2D than 3D...
<strong>Yup. Accellerating 3D and 2D are two different things. For 3D, you've got a high number of polygons and a low number of relatively small textures. With 2D, they've got a high number of HUGE textures, and a low number of polygons. bandwidth to the card is more important with 2D than 3D...</strong><hr></blockquote>
This isn't necessarily true... textures can often be stored locally on the card (geometry can too in some situations, but less often), and geometry is usually larger than textures in high density polygon models. Remember than a texel is at most 4 bytes, but a complete vertex can be >64 bytes depending on whether normals, multipass UVs, colour components, etc are required. A scene with 100K of these vertices isn't much these days, and at 60Hz that will require 384 MB/sec all by itself... excluding any overhead, index tables, etc. If you look at the Radeon9700 the theoretical triangle rate is something like 325 Mtri/sec, so keeping this monster fed is going to require a huge amount of bandwidth -- possibly more than even AGP 8x can supply.
"If you don't expect too much from me, you might not be let down."
I wanna (expect)dual G4s at 1.4, and True DDR. FW2 and USB2 are way down on the list of my needs. I think we expect to have some new cases, and some killer stuff if/when the new Mobo arrives in August. No new Mobo?, no DDR?, then I cannot see a reason to upgrade. Crank that processor all you want, but lack of DDR is the whammy that is going to get Apple crucified, for 30 pieces of Quicksilver.
As shown Wednesday, no one knows what to expect. Look at all the people who poo-poo-ed the 17" iMac as impossible.
I expect (now on record) on new Mobo
single/dual 1ghz
dual 1.2
dual 1.4
All with superdrive, possibly left off the low-end. RAM 256 for all, and 512 for top of the line.
Real DDR- thats the "big bucks, no whammys" question.
Tears will flow if my darling little G4s continue to starve without DDR. Didn't we send in the Marines the last time there was a famine like this? Hey Stever- FEED my G4... RapidI/O, DDR. Puh-leez...
<a href="http://www.apple.com/ca/promo/crystalclear/"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/ca/promo/crystalclear/</a>;
up to $750 off.....
" target="_blank">Upt o $750 off -- Crystal Clear
<a href="http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/07_jul/features/cw_macvspc23.htm"; target="_blank">It would have lost the Photoshop bake-off.</a>
(Yeah, yeah... I know these were Dual 1-Ghz, and Apple would have introduced something faster. It's my parade..)
<strong>New Tibook, Towers, G4 ibook? What do we really have to count on in August besides Jaguar and when will Jaguar start shipping inside new machines? Oh and when is this date August 13?</strong><hr></blockquote>
nobody that knows anything is spilling their guts and we obviously need a mole inside the organization <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: fantastic happy dinner man ]</p>