Good grief. Apple is NOT mulling USB-C for iPhone.
1. The port on iPhone has no purpose anymore, beyond emergency charging, diagnostics, and recovery. The average user can and will charge wirelessly overnight and never need to plug the device in, ever.
So you’ve never seen iPhones being used as data collection devices, like...say... in the Apple store?
mac_128 said: [...] the current transfer speeds are likely slower than the fastest WiFi speeds available.
Nope. I just did a network upgrade at home, trying three different routers for about a week each. Despite their claims of gigabit-plus speeds, the lowly wired USB2/Lightning connection was still faster. I have no idea why, but it wasn't even close. Wireless took about half-again as long to transfer, even with an AC3000 router. Maybe the wireless component of the phone is the weak link.
Why Apple refuses to give iPhones the same USB3 treatment it gives the iPad Pro completely escapes me. It's frustrating as hell. That would be possible even with a Lightning connector, but I'd still like to have USB-C for convenience and consistency. Right now I have two white cables with little connectors sitting next to me; one Lightning, the other USB-C. It would be more convenient to have only one. Even if needed to use both at the same time, having both the same would eliminate the minor inconvenience of occasionally grabbing the wrong one and trying to jam it into a socket it doesn't fit.
mac_128 said: [...] And WiFi is about to get a lot faster.
iPod touch makes a great "gateway" into the Apple ecosystem for children who are too young to have an iPhone. A $200 apple device with monthly payment is the ideal Christmas/Birthday gift for kids. It allows them get hooked on the app store, and start building their music library. iTunes cards are a given at every gift opportunity. When they are ready, they can transition into a "hand me down" iPhone from Mom and Dad, and away they go...
Give someone a hand me down iPhone and don’t enable the cell service.
What a stupid strategy.
Oh really? Care to explain WHY, or did you just feel an overwhelming urge to be rude and obnoxious?
We did exactly that -- just pulled the SIM card out of a retired iPhone -- and it served the same purpose as an iPod just fine. I'm curious about why you consider it stupid, though.
It is very unlikely Apple is “mulling” over major hardware decisions for this year’s iPhone, this decisions are made far in advance in order to produce inventory needed for launch. Gruber has written about this many times.
I actually thought the same thing when I read this. As much as I'd like to see USB-C on my next iPhone, it seems a little late in the game for Apple to still be evaluating this for 2019, isn't it? Then again, production is still months away. Do we know how far in advance these decisions have to be locked down? Is it possible the window for changes is still open this early in the year?
The rumored new iPod Touch with a form factor as the iPhone XR will be great. Even the form factor of the iPhone XS will be okay. It'll help standardize on parts. However Apple needs to have the capacity of either 512 GB or 1 TB as the upper end. Would be great if they include cellular data capability for it.
Sooo... an iPhone XR?
The problem is people want all the features with a $199 price tag. Then they call Apple "too expensive" or "greedy".
mac_128 said: The future is wireless. USB-C was too late to the game, and now it’s the intermediary technology between lightning and wireless.
This is one of the most myopic things I have read in a long time. Wireless charing is a cute parlor trick, but can't be used say in a car if you are using your phone for navigation and have the display lit up. Heck larger phones need more power than older built in car systems provide - and you think wireless charging is going to keep up?
Physical cables are going to be necessary for some time yet. USB C would be more convenient as I could consolidate cables and adapters down.
Gold doesn’t oxidize, even in humid conditions. It is soft and does readily wear off however. Regardless, I doubt the contacts on your cable are gold. I’ve had at least a couple cables last more than 2 years, but if you consider the amount of use and abouse these things get that’s actually not too bad. Regardless, Even if you can’t see them directly, the contacts in a USB C cable are exposed to air, so if you’re worried about corrosion on the contacts there won’t be a difference.
The primary mode of failure I’ve seen on almost all cables is the jacket and subsequently the outer shielding wires getting frayed at the connector. 2nd to that is the cable simply not working when you plug it in or the phone rejecting it as an ‘unapproved accessory’ which I’m assuming is d/t a failure of the electronics inside (remember, these are not straight, ‘dumb’ cables,there are electronics inside that can fail.)
USB C may have the contacts hidden, but the connector itself seems to be much less robust and secure in my experience with my MacBook Pro.
Yes I do agree gold doesn't oxidize, I don't know what material they are. But all my (and my family's) lightning cables have one mode of failure: Disappearance of one of the middle contacts. This is ongoing since inception of the lightning cable. Plus the exposed contacts come in contact with other things, the enclosed ones will not.
I never had any issue with any cable that had it's contacts hidden (be it any USB cable, HDMI cable, etc). Of course, the lightning cable gets plugged in almost every day once so it sees a fair share of use... I still say the exposure of the contacts is the main culprit of this. You an google it up, it's a known factor.
Physical cables are going to be necessary for some time yet. USB C would be more convenient as I could consolidate cables and adapters down.
I think quite a few people would like to still use the SD card reader with their iPhone. I don't usually use a lot of battery and don't religiously charge my phone overnight. Once and a while I do get a low battery, especially if I'm doing a long FaceTime over cellular. It is nice to have a small iPhone charger handy when away from home instead of carrying a big wireless charging pad in my briefcase. With a cable you can use the phone while charging. Not so much with the wireless charger.
... Now, the USB-C doesn't have the contacts exposed, so you're not touching it with your fingers and it's not getting damage from other, possibly sharp, objects in your backpack.
Because the USB-C has the contacts hidden, I see it as far superior. It is sadly bigger, and the presence of a tongue as others have mentioned make it possible for the port itself to be damaged where the lighting port has so far been very resistent to damage. ...
Yes, there is that kind of damage, and I can see USB-C being better about that. But, I think the main damage to most cables/ports is more mechanical. In other words, when they are plugged in, the stresses put on the connection/port as well as the cable/strain-relief area.
I'm not sure about USB-C, but Lightning isn't that optimal in that regard, especially compared to the 3.5mm jack for a typical use of wired headphones, likely with the unit in pocket. That's my main issue, as I'm pretty careful with my cables, and break very few. But, I do regularly use wired headphones with my iPhone/iPod touch (when I had one)... hours per day, often. That's a lot of potential damage to cable/port.
lorin schultz said: The more I use the iOS Music app, the more I hate it.
Yeah, you have to wonder who designs these apps, and if they spent more than 5 minutes on them. The UI is horrific. Search is equally as bad. (Ironically, this is the kind of stuff we used to laugh at PC apps about.) Then there is the QC... like the new Voice Memos. Wow, just wow.
lorin schultz said: Try transferring 50-60GB of video to an iPhone or iPad over Lightning. PAINFULLY slow. Now try doing it wirelessly. Even SLOWER!
Now try the USB-C connection on an iPad Pro. Case closed.
I wonder if most people do that kind of thing anymore, though. I certainly do... or connect my iPad/iPhone to Lightning so I can screen-record or do live audio, etc. I suppose if the vast majority of people just pull an app now and then or download a music track, etc. then they never notice that. And, with pie-chart thinking, that does scare me for the future of everything going lowest-common-denominator.
jume said: I kind of agree. Much better fit would be iPod Shuffle alike, which is great for running and jogging.
Just can't stand to run with an iPhone ....
I think that would be called an Apple Watch. The idea of the iPod touch is an iPhone sans phone, so you can run the same apps locally and over WiFi. In other words, it's more than just an iPod, which seems to be a product category Apple gave up on.
80s_Apple_Guy said: Yet they did this with the iPad Pro. Wireless charging had plusses and minuses. However data transfer is painfully slow. A physical port will be needed for quite some time yet. Makes no sense to the have the iPad line on USB-C and the iPhone on lightning IMO.
It's a bit like processors, GPUs, laptops, etc. too, though. Wired will always be faster. So, as wireless gets faster, the wired will be faster yet. At some point, I suppose it gets good enough that it's OK for most stuff. WiFi has somewhat gotten there, or laptops and mobile devices have enough power/battery-life that they are 'good enough' even if the wired/desktop is still superior.
That said, the main problem with wireless are things like stability, latency, bandwidth, etc. Speed isn't the only metric. I find wireless convenient at times, but if one is doing anything robust or important, it doesn't cut it.
MplsP said: ... 2nd to that is the cable simply not working when you plug it in or the phone rejecting it as an ‘unapproved accessory’ which I’m assuming is d/t a failure of the electronics inside (remember, these are not straight, ‘dumb’ cables,there are electronics inside that can fail.) ...
Great point. I'm guessing things like static electricity get that circuitry.
mac_128 said: .... As has often been stated, Apple is skating to where the puck will be.
But, is the 'puck' future innovative goodness, or mass-hordes for sales/profit optimization? Historically, those have been dramatically different things. Your description sounded more like the latter, which would (especially as a non-AAPL stock-holder) make me sad.
Metriacanthosaurus said: ... Apple switch to USB-C on iPad Pro because they got something specific out of it that was desired for the device (4k video out). They didn't switch just because. And Apple is not about to switch to anything when the iPhone Lightning install base is in the billions of units.
Does anyone output 4k video from an iPad Pro? Maybe someday when the OS catches up, I suppose. And, couldn't the same argument have been made about the 3.5mm jack? Surely Apple wouldn't move away from a universal, most-widely used standard with massive install base, right?
mac_128 said: [...] the current transfer speeds are likely slower than the fastest WiFi speeds available.
Nope. I just did a network upgrade at home, trying three different routers for about a week each. Despite their claims of gigabit-plus speeds, the lowly wired USB2/Lightning connection was still faster. I have no idea why, but it wasn't even close. ...
mac_128 said: [...] And WiFi is about to get a lot faster.
How so?
I think a lot of it is theoretical speeds vs reality, especially with wireless, as there is so much that can go wrong (interference, signal strength, saturation, etc.). In theory, I should be able to stream video from my Mac to the TV, or have a great gaming experience on my PS4 via WiFi, but that just isn't reality. Or, in theory, I should be able to transfer a big folder of files over WiFi much faster than I can, as well. The reality isn't so pretty.
re: 'How so?' - I was thinking the same thing.
lorin schultz said: We did exactly that -- just pulled the SIM card out of a retired iPhone -- and it served the same purpose as an iPod just fine. I'm curious about why you consider it stupid, though.
Trying to read that most charitably, maybe stupid from an Apple product-line standpoint? If so, I'd agree, then. I think that's a great use of a bit older iPhone if you've bought a new one. But, I don't think it's a great strategy if you don't have one laying around... ie: no one should be going out to buy an iPhone, temporarily stick a SIM in it, and turn it into an iPod touch. The other problem (but Apple is already deep into this one with their lower-cost strategy), is that you're starting with a device that is on the edge of losing compatibility and UX with apps, games, OS, etc.
I remember these being popular with kids. Until they became too outdated.
Exactly... Apple seems to be king at self-fulfilling prophecies. ie. 'Umm, people aren't buying this (horribly outdated product) so much anymore, so it must no longer be a desirable/necessary product line.'
volcan said: I think quite a few people would like to still use the SD card reader with their iPhone. I don't usually use a lot of battery and don't religiously charge my phone overnight. Once and a while I do get a low battery, especially if I'm doing a long FaceTime over cellular. It is nice to have a small iPhone charger handy when away from home instead of carrying a big wireless charging pad in my briefcase. With a cable you can use the phone while charging. Not so much with the wireless charger.
And, I'd say this is the area where ***we*** are the exception. I'm pretty good about regular charging (ie: 100% when I start the day). I don't do a ton of gaming on my devices. I tweak the power settings to optimize battery life, yet get whatever performance I need. I turn the display to 'just enough' brightness. I turn off any of the 'radios' I don't need until I need them. I quit background apps, or set their settings so they don't update/use-data when not needed. The list goes on...
The more average user likely does few of these things. My other family members seem to be sitting quite often with a Lightning cable in the port and other end plugged into the wall. A wireless charger doesn't help this problem much, if at all. *Maybe* if they can bother to remember to set the device on it more often during the day, it might help a bit. But, if they could do that, they could also be bothered to plug those devices in when they aren't using them, to eliminate the described issue. They aren't that disciplined, nor do they seem to care. But, if that Lightning port we're missing... I can guarantee, they'd care quickly!
iPod touch makes a great "gateway" into the Apple ecosystem for children who are too young to have an iPhone. A $200 apple device with monthly payment is the ideal Christmas/Birthday gift for kids. It allows them get hooked on the app store, and start building their music library. iTunes cards are a given at every gift opportunity. When they are ready, they can transition into a "hand me down" iPhone from Mom and Dad, and away they go...
Give someone a hand me down iPhone and don’t enable the cell service.
What a stupid strategy.
Oh really? Care to explain WHY, or did you just feel an overwhelming urge to be rude and obnoxious?
We did exactly that -- just pulled the SIM card out of a retired iPhone -- and it served the same purpose as an iPod just fine. I'm curious about why you consider it stupid, though.
Obviously it's not a stupid strategy, but if the iPhone is fairly recent then it probably has a higher resale value than the cost of an iPod Touch. Besides that, it seems a little wasteful to hand down a device with some of its primary functions disabled, when you could hand it down to someone who would use it as an actual phone.
But it's up to you what you do with your own things.
I just purchased a new iPod touch for my 9-year olds. When signing into iCloud I received this email. I thought it strange as I thought it was a 6th Generation iPod touch, but the email I received said iPod touch (7th Generation). Here is a screen shot.
I'm not convinced that there's a place for an iPod Touch in today's world.
Because you do not understand different needs including those based on age. Small kids should not have phones and that is education mistake of todays system causing a lot of issue later. Also it coes from the fact that people do not quite understand that putting small device playing music or serving good purpose for disconnected applications into pocket is better way to go than people bouncing people on street while looking into screen and not payoing attention to environment.
Comments
Why Apple refuses to give iPhones the same USB3 treatment it gives the iPad Pro completely escapes me. It's frustrating as hell. That would be possible even with a Lightning connector, but I'd still like to have USB-C for convenience and consistency. Right now I have two white cables with little connectors sitting next to me; one Lightning, the other USB-C. It would be more convenient to have only one. Even if needed to use both at the same time, having both the same would eliminate the minor inconvenience of occasionally grabbing the wrong one and trying to jam it into a socket it doesn't fit.
How so?
Oh really? Care to explain WHY, or did you just feel an overwhelming urge to be rude and obnoxious?
We did exactly that -- just pulled the SIM card out of a retired iPhone -- and it served the same purpose as an iPod just fine. I'm curious about why you consider it stupid, though.
Sooo... an iPhone XR?
The problem is people want all the features with a $199 price tag. Then they call Apple "too expensive" or "greedy".
Consumers aren't the only users of tech.
This is one of the most myopic things I have read in a long time. Wireless charing is a cute parlor trick, but can't be used say in a car if you are using your phone for navigation and have the display lit up. Heck larger phones need more power than older built in car systems provide - and you think wireless charging is going to keep up?
Physical cables are going to be necessary for some time yet. USB C would be more convenient as I could consolidate cables and adapters down.
I never had any issue with any cable that had it's contacts hidden (be it any USB cable, HDMI cable, etc). Of course, the lightning cable gets plugged in almost every day once so it sees a fair share of use... I still say the exposure of the contacts is the main culprit of this. You an google it up, it's a known factor.
Just google "lightning cable contact corrosion".
I'm not sure about USB-C, but Lightning isn't that optimal in that regard, especially compared to the 3.5mm jack for a typical use of wired headphones, likely with the unit in pocket. That's my main issue, as I'm pretty careful with my cables, and break very few. But, I do regularly use wired headphones with my iPhone/iPod touch (when I had one)... hours per day, often. That's a lot of potential damage to cable/port.
Yeah, you have to wonder who designs these apps, and if they spent more than 5 minutes on them. The UI is horrific. Search is equally as bad.
(Ironically, this is the kind of stuff we used to laugh at PC apps about.)
Then there is the QC... like the new Voice Memos. Wow, just wow.
I wonder if most people do that kind of thing anymore, though. I certainly do... or connect my iPad/iPhone to Lightning so I can screen-record or do live audio, etc. I suppose if the vast majority of people just pull an app now and then or download a music track, etc. then they never notice that. And, with pie-chart thinking, that does scare me for the future of everything going lowest-common-denominator.
I think that would be called an Apple Watch. The idea of the iPod touch is an iPhone sans phone, so you can run the same apps locally and over WiFi. In other words, it's more than just an iPod, which seems to be a product category Apple gave up on.
It's a bit like processors, GPUs, laptops, etc. too, though. Wired will always be faster. So, as wireless gets faster, the wired will be faster yet. At some point, I suppose it gets good enough that it's OK for most stuff. WiFi has somewhat gotten there, or laptops and mobile devices have enough power/battery-life that they are 'good enough' even if the wired/desktop is still superior.
That said, the main problem with wireless are things like stability, latency, bandwidth, etc. Speed isn't the only metric. I find wireless convenient at times, but if one is doing anything robust or important, it doesn't cut it.
Great point. I'm guessing things like static electricity get that circuitry.
But, is the 'puck' future innovative goodness, or mass-hordes for sales/profit optimization? Historically, those have been dramatically different things. Your description sounded more like the latter, which would (especially as a non-AAPL stock-holder) make me sad.
Does anyone output 4k video from an iPad Pro? Maybe someday when the OS catches up, I suppose.
And, couldn't the same argument have been made about the 3.5mm jack? Surely Apple wouldn't move away from a universal, most-widely used standard with massive install base, right?
re: 'How so?' - I was thinking the same thing.
Trying to read that most charitably, maybe stupid from an Apple product-line standpoint? If so, I'd agree, then. I think that's a great use of a bit older iPhone if you've bought a new one. But, I don't think it's a great strategy if you don't have one laying around... ie: no one should be going out to buy an iPhone, temporarily stick a SIM in it, and turn it into an iPod touch. The other problem (but Apple is already deep into this one with their lower-cost strategy), is that you're starting with a device that is on the edge of losing compatibility and UX with apps, games, OS, etc.
Exactly... Apple seems to be king at self-fulfilling prophecies.
ie. 'Umm, people aren't buying this (horribly outdated product) so much anymore, so it must no longer be a desirable/necessary product line.'
And, I'd say this is the area where ***we*** are the exception. I'm pretty good about regular charging (ie: 100% when I start the day). I don't do a ton of gaming on my devices. I tweak the power settings to optimize battery life, yet get whatever performance I need. I turn the display to 'just enough' brightness. I turn off any of the 'radios' I don't need until I need them. I quit background apps, or set their settings so they don't update/use-data when not needed. The list goes on...
The more average user likely does few of these things. My other family members seem to be sitting quite often with a Lightning cable in the port and other end plugged into the wall. A wireless charger doesn't help this problem much, if at all. *Maybe* if they can bother to remember to set the device on it more often during the day, it might help a bit. But, if they could do that, they could also be bothered to plug those devices in when they aren't using them, to eliminate the described issue. They aren't that disciplined, nor do they seem to care. But, if that Lightning port we're missing... I can guarantee, they'd care quickly!
I'm sure Apple could... now that they've painted themselves into the 'legacy port' baloney corner.
But it's up to you what you do with your own things.
I would argue the opposite specifically because the iPod is pretty nearly, an iPhone sans phone.