Former Apple exec Scott Forstall discusses creativity in tech, more in interview

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 30
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 788member
    flydog said:
    tyler82 said:
    iOS was better under Forstall IMO. 
    In any particular way or is that just revisionist history brought on by nostalgia?  Because as most people will remember, Forstall was in charge during the disastrous first release of Maps, then a few months later he was gone. 
    The interface and overall usability. It was less clunky and I prefer the dimensional graphics, much easier to use, more user friendly.  You could tell when a button was a button etc.
  • Reply 22 of 30
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,147member
    Scott was a terrific presenter, but apparently he had a personality a bit too much like Steve's ... particularly the "unpleasant" side. I'm delighted with his choice of new projects thus far (a terrific show) and look forward to whatever else he decides to do.
    asdasdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 30
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,233member
    macxpress said:
    McJobs said:
    "Scott was an incredible person, incredible engineer, incredible manager." - Avie Tevanian

    Who cares what one person thinks, who's most likely bias because they worked together at NeXT, and at Apple? 
    Avie is one of the most important people in Apple's history. 

    In fact I rarely see ex employees of Apple criticise Scott F. 
    edited January 17 McJobswatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 30
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,233member
    McJobs said:
    "Scott was an incredible person, incredible engineer, incredible manager." - Avie Tevanian

    1:45:41



    Brilliant interview, thanks. 
    McJobswatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 30
    thttht Posts: 3,061member
    Forstall was essentially the last NeXT person to hold significant power at Apple, after a continuous line from Avie Tevanian and Bertrand Serlet. This is a continuous line of work on Mach, BSD, Objective C and the app frameworks for about 20 years. You really don’t replace that type of inside knowledge. He arguably saved Apple or improved Apple in his own way twice, by pushing the Carbon strategy and pushing iOS through. It was a bad loss to see him go and Apple is still recovering from it in a lot of ways.

    Federighi worked at NeXT while it transitioned into a WebObjects company, but worked for Ariba or was outside Apple for 12 years before coming back in 2009. It’s really hard to understand technical details without working on them, and than he became SVP for software. I’m not sure he’s developed an understanding of how long OS features take to develop yet, and he’s had a penchant to overpromise and underdeliver imo. iOS 12 was defeatured, to the detriment of the iPad Pro, but that defeaturing was at least first step in Federighi understanding what’s important, or maybe there was enough of a stink for him to change his mind.

    The team that creating NeXTSTEP was a super team of programmers and engineers. You rarely see that and it’s even rarer to see them be so successful. It was a sad day when Forstall left.
    asdasdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 30
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,233member
    tht said:

    The team that creating NeXTSTEP was a super team of programmers and engineers. You rarely see that and it’s even rarer to see them be so successful. It was a sad day when Forstall left.
    They were, pretty much it was that group of people who built the iPhone OS, with some other hires. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 30
    I adore Forestall and I really feel like he was one of the best software people Apple ever had. At the same time, sometimes brilliant people are bad at getting along with other people. I feel like Tim needed someone who could compromise without Tim having to prove he was wrong. And I don’t think Scott was willing to give that sort of justly to anyone but Steve.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 30
    jccjcc Posts: 209member
    Forestall was kicked because Jobs was no longer there to protect him. Jobs valued one thing above all else, competence. I'm sure that Forestall was not easy to work with but he delivered. Cook got rid of him the very first time he didn't, maps. Personally, I thought it was a bit unfair as it turned a business decision into product development one, i.e. the business decision to replace Google Maps ASAP vs having the right product to replace it. Cook probably should have made sure that they actually had a working product before rushing to replace Google even though they hated Google so much. He let hatred cloud his judgment. Instead of blaming himself, Cook blamed Forestall for not building a product in 1 year what it took Google over a decade to build.

    Anyone can see that Cook is bad at making personnel decisions. After the abrupt Forestall firing, he goes and hires a bozo to replace Johnson as the head of retail. And when that didn't work out, he then goes and hires a fashionista because he wrongly believed that the Apple Watch was all about fashion. If you read recent interviews with Ahrendts, she clearly says that she didn't feel she was the right candidate for the job when Cook was interviewing her, despite Cook insisting that she was. I find that when someone tells you something, you should listen. Now, five years later, she's leaving. At least someone had enough sense and decency to know she's not a good fit for what the company needs.

    There's just so much wrong with Cook's stewardship of Apple...

    P.S. Skeuomorphism was Jobs' way of bridging the dissonance between physical vs digital controls. Until the iPhone, most people were used to physical things, interacting with physical buttons, physical notes, physical everything. By introducing a flat digital glass surface, Jobs was looking for a way to make the new interface/UI more familiar to people, hence skeuomorphism. It's no longer needed since most people now know how to interact with a flat touchscreen. Think of skeuomorphism as UI mental training wheels.
    edited February 10
  • Reply 29 of 30
    Honestly, I wouldn’t mind hearing his criticisms or suggestions for improvements for Apple and Apple’s software or hardware. Maybe he has some valid ideas.
  • Reply 30 of 30
    jcc said:
    Forestall was kicked because Jobs was no longer there to protect him. Jobs valued one thing above all else, competence. I'm sure that Forestall was not easy to work with but he delivered. Cook got rid of him the very first time he didn't, maps. Personally, I thought it was a bit unfair as it turned a business decision into product development one, i.e. the business decision to replace Google Maps ASAP vs having the right product to replace it. Cook probably should have made sure that they actually had a working product before rushing to replace Google even though they hated Google so much. He let hatred cloud his judgment. Instead of blaming himself, Cook blamed Forestall for not building a product in 1 year what it took Google over a decade to build.

    Anyone can see that Cook is bad at making personnel decisions. After the abrupt Forestall firing, he goes and hires a bozo to replace Johnson as the head of retail. And when that didn't work out, he then goes and hires a fashionista because he wrongly believed that the Apple Watch was all about fashion. If you read recent interviews with Ahrendts, she clearly says that she didn't feel she was the right candidate for the job when Cook was interviewing her, despite Cook insisting that she was. I find that when someone tells you something, you should listen. Now, five years later, she's leaving. At least someone had enough sense and decency to know she's not a good fit for what the company needs.

    There's just so much wrong with Cook's stewardship of Apple...

    P.S. Skeuomorphism was Jobs' way of bridging the dissonance between physical vs digital controls. Until the iPhone, most people were used to physical things, interacting with physical buttons, physical notes, physical everything. By introducing a flat digital glass surface, Jobs was looking for a way to make the new interface/UI more familiar to people, hence skeuomorphism. It's no longer needed since most people now know how to interact with a flat touchscreen. Think of skeuomorphism as UI mental training wheels.
    Tim doens’t seem to be a great judge of character in the high-profile cases we’re all familiar with. At least that’s the impression we’re given by the stories we can see and hear about. I’m sure he’s a terrific guy and leader, but I just happen to think he’d still be better in his old role. Would a person like Forestall have been a better choice? Absolutely no way we’ll ever know. I think Scott has moved on.
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