Apple in 2019: Will a recession ruin its run?

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 58
    crosslad said:
    crosslad said:
    Apple sales in China are down purely as a tit for tat response to Trump putting a ban on Huawei. The Chinese government has told its people to stop buying Apple products. Once the trade dispute is over China will return to buying IPhones. 
    haha, in your imagination. don't be silly.

    China declares it will stop selling iPhones if Trump imposes tariffs

    https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/239376-china-declares-will-stop-selling-iphones-trump-imposes-tariffs


    Chinese Huawei supplier will punish staff for buying Apple iPhone in show of support for troubled tech giant

    https://m.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2177290/chinese-huawei-supplier-will-punish-staff-buying-apple-iphone


    Iphone sales are down because China has encouraged Chinese to buy chinese products in retaliation for the Huawei arrest and continued hardline policy and perceived insults of China from Donald Trump. Trump is singlehandedly destroying the reputation and sales of American companies in the worlds 2nd largest market.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/aca1ct/are_iphone_sales_slowing_down_or_is_that_the_us/

    Just a few posts on the internet.


    It may be the world’s second largest market, but it’s also a pretty rigged market (as your own post reveals). With massive IP theft and lack of market access for US tech firms  thrown in for good measure. 

    Someone has to call them out, and for good. I am not entirely happy with what that has meant for me in the short term as an Apple shareholder, but it’s something I am more than willing to ride out for the long haul. 
    Likewise. I’ve seen the knockoffs and rampant IP theft there for myself, so I’m enjoying this President taking them to the woodshed.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 58
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    DAalseth said:
    I've been very pessimistic, but you make a lot of good points. I still think there will be a recession, a hell of a bad one, for reason's we won't go into here. But Apple does have a history of weathering these events well. Plus unlike its competitors, Apple has the reserves to deal with severe changes without going bankrupt.

    of course I keep in mind what they say on all those stock broker ads: Past Performance is no Guarantee of Future Results.
    Yeah, that's the problem here. The question is how deep the recession (or depression) goes. The last couple speed-bumps mentioned in the article weren't that big of a deal in the grand scheme. If times get truly tough, it will take products that have utility to matter. There will always be market levels, and high-quality, high-utility products might do even better in such times. It's the frivolous stuff that gets cut. And, IMO, Apple has lost some of the utility and gained a lot more frivolous in the last decade.

    I don't think that means they are doomed, but more that they might come through the next one, especially if it is a big one, more scathed than the article author might think.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 43 of 58
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member

    brucemc said:
    If I am Taiwan or the Philippines, I can see being nervous.  Not if I was the USA.
    Well, the problem with the USA is more that if there is an internal collapse, and/or collapse of the $USD, and/or collapse of enough control being exerted around the world to keep the $USD stable and resources under US control, it won't matter a whole lot who has the best military capability.
  • Reply 44 of 58
    jdw said:
    An excellent editorial.  Thank you, Daniel Eran Dilger.  And truly, no one who has proclaimed doom upon Apple has ever been right.  With that said, I do take issue with the lone premise that "Apple has gone through this before and emerged unscathed" (which is my own interpretation and summary of the editorial).  

    The editorial starts off talking about the G4 Cube (hint, hint -- I obviously own one, and it still works fine, and I still love it) being expensive and more form than function.  And yet the article misses the fact that the MacBook Pro, while always having been expensive, put more emphasis on form than function starting in late 2016.  The MacBook reeks of that, and now the MacBook AIR.  So when the pro-Apple media time and time again admits the G4 Cube was "a failure due to price and form over function," that same pro-Apple media needs to admit something similar when it comes to Apple's design and pricing decisions since late 2016, at least when it comes to the notebook line, which is a very important product line among all the Macs Apple sells.  
    ^^^What a brilliant post. 

    I finally decided to buckle, and buy a new 15” MBP, but I have to say that it is the least exciting and least anticipated Apple purchase I’ve ever made. The Touchbar is a useless, unnecessary, cutesy piece of sh**. USB-C is an underachiever. And I dread not having MagSafe for the first time in years. 
    MBP "least exciting and least anticipated" ... well you are older now. everything is less exciting! Remember the excitement of MacBooks ten years ago being 15% faster and regressing to 32 bit CPUs and having an SD Card slot you maybe used 3 times across ten years--and Mini DisplayPort and FW800...  Those were the days!

    If you don't like the Touchbar you don't have to use it. When RDM imagined Apple integrating an iOS touch screen into Macbooks several years ago (guessed it would replace the touchpad, vs the function keys) it was presented as mostly a way to make Apple's notebooks look advanced/different in marketing. I think that was pretty right on. It's a major differentiator from basic PC notebooks or cheaper Macs for users looing for something new and exciting (maybe as exciting at inertial scrolling on the touch pad of MBPs ten years ago when things were amazing, as opposed to having a horrible digital display that causes you soo much grief on a daily basis. 

    Is touchbar a radical change in UI that makes your life 80% better? maybe not, but its also not that expensive and integrates/pays for important new innovations like Touch ID and all the T2 security that's now going into Macs. Microsoft tried to do something similar with Windows CE among its licenses and that flopped entirely. It looks like touchbar has paid off.

    And USB-C being an "underachiever"? That makes no sense at all. USB-C is better than previous implementations of USB and on MBPs it makes it possible to support legacy USB, today's modern/fastest USB, and tomorrow's Thunderbolt all in one cable. Do you have to match the cable to the device? Yes. USB-A doesn't do any of those things but support old devices that still need a "dongle" or as they say, "cable."

    I also don't get the allure of MagSafe. You can get a quick-connect USB-C cable. MagSafe doesn't stop you from tripping over a USB cable and pulling your machine off the table. It just forces you to attach power to one port only on one side, that doesn't do anything else--for minor benefit--and precludes you from buying a power supply from anywhere else but Apple.

    All the USB-C kvetching is just contradictory bitching. Do you want one omni-fuctional port type with adapeters, or do you want lots of different cables for each of a bunch of different ports? Do you want flexibility or not? You can't complain about both alternatives at the same time and be taken seriously!
    bestkeptsecretwatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 58
    it's not about sky-high prices, it's about sky-high prices on products whose quality has been dropping precipitously. if a product is plagued by constant issues (including security issues) then the premium markup is no longer justified.
    i won't pay $2000 for a phone just because it has an apple logo on it if that logo doesn't also mean it's the best in terms of quality and stability.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 46 of 58
    ... well you are older now. everything is less exciting! 

    Speak for yourself.
  • Reply 47 of 58
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,824member
    genovelle said:
    I think Apple has a huge opportunity selling the MacBook Air 5G through wireless providers.  It would have fantastic battery life running an A Series chip, and have Office 365 support for business.  Offer it for $50/month (about the same as the high end iPhone) and it would dominate the PC market.

    I’d buy one...
    That is an amazing idea
    But it won't happen anytime soon because Apple is trying to destroy Qualcomm.   I don't see an Intel 5G chip till 2020 at earliest.   
  • Reply 48 of 58
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,824member
    jdw said:
    An excellent editorial.  Thank you, Daniel Eran Dilger.  And truly, no one who has proclaimed doom upon Apple has ever been right.  With that said, I do take issue with the lone premise that "Apple has gone through this before and emerged unscathed" (which is my own interpretation and summary of the editorial).  

    The editorial starts off talking about the G4 Cube (hint, hint -- I obviously own one, and it still works fine, and I still love it) being expensive and more form than function.  And yet the article misses the fact that the MacBook Pro, while always having been expensive, put more emphasis on form than function starting in late 2016.  The MacBook reeks of that, and now the MacBook AIR.  So when the pro-Apple media time and time again admits the G4 Cube was "a failure due to price and form over function," that same pro-Apple media needs to admit something similar when it comes to Apple's design and pricing decisions since late 2016, at least when it comes to the notebook line, which is a very important product line among all the Macs Apple sells.  

    Even AppleInsider recently admitted that a USB-C-only trek to CES was hardship due to the ubiquity of USB-A, and consider well how long USB-C has been on the market.  It doesn't matter how superior a standard is to an old standard if people, regardless of reason, cling to the old standard.  Apple is therefore now somewhat out of touch with the needs of The Rest of Us when it comes to making machines that bridge the needs of today with the tech of tomorrow.  

    Putting just one USB-A port on the 15" MBP (where there's space aplenty to do that) would have eliminated a mountain of complaints.  Had there been 3 USB-C ports and 1 USB-A, the USB-C worshippers surely wouldn't have complained and neither would legacy USB-A product users.  All would have been satisfied with that kind of decision, but three are other considerations too.  Having a good keyboard (unlike the butterfly we have now) is still possible in a thin and light enclosure, as Windows ultrabooks have shown.  Stripping away useful features like the SD card slot, extension power cord in box, LED on charging cable, MagSafe, and adding useless features like the TouchBar, and then eliminating fun features like the glowing Apple logo are all obnoxious changes to satisfy a Johnny Ive who has run dry of insanely great ideas, rather than improvements that benefit the Mac-loving masses.  These are facts that we should not try to defend only because we love Apple, but instead admit them as failures, just as Steve Jobs did when Apple screwed up under his watch.  "The launch of MobileMe was not our finest hour," Steve said.  In like manner, the emphasis of form over function in Apple notebooks is also not indicative of Apple's finest.

    In the end, I want Apple to succeed.  Believe me, as an AAPL shareholder since 1999, I really, really want them to succeed.  But I also want to continue being enthralled by and attracted to Macs.  It saddens me to admit that I have zero attraction to Apple notebooks today.  Even if they were 50% off, I wouldn't buy them because the mid-2015 15" MBP is a Mac that satisfies my needs today and can run the latest MacOS. It's just that at some future point I will need to upgrade, and I shudder to think how stripped-down those future machines will be in light of how form takes so much more precedence than function in today's Apple notebooks.  Indeed, the only great computer that Apple makes is the iMac (no SD card slot on the 2018 Mini keeps it from greatness).  And while that's a perfect choice for a Mac desktop machine, there is need for great features in an Apple-branded notebook too.

    Look, we Mac users who have been with Apple since 1984 know full well about Apple being pricey relative to silly DOS and Windows machines.  But the question is, does Apple make a Mac that satisfies the needs of most Mac users today?  And no, that question doesn't mean "satisfy me when I buy add-on dongles?" but rather "satisfy me with features out of the box, as is?"  For me, and for many other Mac lovers, that answer is sadly, No.  We aren't satisfied.  And it's not because we are chronic complainers.  Indeed, Apple did satisfy our needs in the past. And for that reason, many among us cannot help but feel Apple's pricing is not inline with the features we get versus the features we need and expect.  Give us the features we need and crave and we will love you in spite of the price.  We the consumer keep Apple alive and well, not visa versa.
    ^^^What a brilliant post. 

    I finally decided to buckle, and buy a new 15” MBP, but I have to say that it is the least exciting and least anticipated Apple purchase I’ve ever made. The Touchbar is a useless, unnecessary, cutesy piece of sh**. USB-C is an underachiever. And I dread not having MagSafe for the first time in years. 
    I agree with you on the TouchBar.   I want to touch it like Dracula wants to touch a crucifix.    The surprising thing is that Apple seemed was quite pleased with it:

    https: techcrunch dot com/2017/04/06/transcript-phil-schiller-craig-federighi-and-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/?_ga=2.90399132.784198535.1548635157-1632605040.1464346619

    Phil Schiller: We think we’re off to a good start with the Touch Bar. That it is intuitive for everybody in general and specifically does give some incredible capabilities for pro users. And as we’ve started to see more and more adoption in pro apps, our own – obviously Logic supports it, as does Final Cut and third-party apps have done a real good job starting to support it. We’re seeing some really brilliant uses of it.

    Almost 3 years since its introduction if the Touchbar was that great they would find a way to offer it on their desktops.   I think it was a misfire like the butterfly keyboard..
    SpamSandwichanantksundaramcgWerks
  • Reply 49 of 58
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,540member
    knowitall said:
    I think what’s missing in this story is what iPhones (and other Apple products) should cost.
    This prevents an endless subjective discussion.

    A fair estimate should be the BOM (bill of materials), assembly and transport cost, development cost for this specific iPhone (development cost divided by the number of iphones sold) and 10 maybe 15% profit.
    In case of the iPhoneXS this is https://www.techspot.com/news/76629-1249-iphone-xs-max-costs-apple-443-make.html about $443 plus max $60 development cost (12 billion development cost overall / 200 million devices) for a $1249 iPhoneXS.
    This means that Apple is asking 2 1/2 times the real cost of the device (+$750) while they should ask $550.
    I would call this a ripoff factor of 2.


    I am not sure what you "knowitall" in, but it certainly isn't business.  Almost no product on the market, from purely commodity resources to food to fashion to high end technology, is priced as you outline.  If you work, I assume it is for the government...
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 58
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,540member
    ... well you are older now. everything is less exciting! 

    Speak for yourself.
    You certainly are a cantankerous bugger...
    bestkeptsecretwatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 58
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,540member
    I quite like the USB-C connector (which is just the connector, the port of course supports T-Bolt 3, audio/video, power, etc).  I purchased a USB-C hub for $40 on Amazon which connects to all my peripherals at work, including the power cable.  One single attachment point, and you are done.  I did have to spend about $100 for all the peripherals, but I needed some for my last 2011 MBP as well.

    Always funny to read the comments - you get the people that complain about Apple protecting legacy markets (I guess that is to imply trying to maintain the iPhone user base), and then the same ones turnaround and moan that the Mac doesn't have enough legacy ports.  Oh well, that is humanity I guess...
    correctionswatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 58
    brucemc said:
    ... well you are older now. everything is less exciting! 

    Speak for yourself.
    You certainly are a cantankerous bugger...
    See my reply above to @corrections
  • Reply 53 of 58
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    corrections said:
    MBP "least exciting and least anticipated" ... well you are older now. everything is less exciting! Remember the excitement of MacBooks ten years ago being 15% faster and regressing to 32 bit CPUs and having an SD Card slot you maybe used 3 times across ten years--and Mini DisplayPort and FW800...  Those were the days!
    Well of course, they don't seem so advanced now! But, back then, I actually looked forward to them, and was pretty happy (sans GPU issues in MBPs) with most every Apple product I ever bought in the past. Not so with the current MBPs.

    corrections said:
    ... When RDM imagined Apple integrating an iOS touch screen into Macbooks several years ago (guessed it would replace the touchpad, vs the function keys) it was presented as mostly a way to make Apple's notebooks look advanced/different in marketing. I think that was pretty right on. It's a major differentiator from basic PC notebooks or cheaper Macs for users looing for something new and exciting (maybe as exciting at inertial scrolling on the touch pad of MBPs ten years ago when things were amazing, as opposed to having a horrible digital display that causes you soo much grief on a daily basis. 
    Well, I think you got it right there. They wanted to add some bling. I guess they succeeded in that regard, but I'd rather my laptop is actually advanced, not just looking advanced.

    corrections said:
    I also don't get the allure of MagSafe. You can get a quick-connect USB-C cable. MagSafe doesn't stop you from tripping over a USB cable and pulling your machine off the table.
    I think people mainly miss the elegance. Once you've had something like that, it's kind of hard to go back.

    h0arder said:
    i won't pay $2000 for a phone just because it has an apple logo on it if that logo doesn't also mean it's the best in terms of quality and stability.
    But, fashion people will. I guess we have to ask whether Apple's new breed of consumers are more into quality or fashion. I'm not sure I'm going to like the answer.

    k2kw said:
    But it won't happen anytime soon because Apple is trying to destroy Qualcomm.   I don't see an Intel 5G chip till 2020 at earliest.   
    You're not going to see 5G until well after 2020 anyway, so it doesn't matter much who makes or doesn't make the chips.
    I half wonder if 5G is the next 3D TV. I'm sure we'll eventually get some next-gen thing, but the hype (and desperation) around 5G is getting to lunacy level.

    brucemc said:
    I quite like the USB-C connector (which is just the connector, the port of course supports T-Bolt 3, audio/video, power, etc).  I purchased a USB-C hub for $40 on Amazon which connects to all my peripherals at work, including the power cable.  One single attachment point, and you are done.  I did have to spend about $100 for all the peripherals, but I needed some for my last 2011 MBP as well.

    Always funny to read the comments - you get the people that complain about Apple protecting legacy markets (I guess that is to imply trying to maintain the iPhone user base), and then the same ones turnaround and moan that the Mac doesn't have enough legacy ports.  Oh well, that is humanity I guess...
    Oh, yeah, it's fine on desks with docking units (not hubs, there are no USB-C hubs yet, really) and such. The problem (and hence complaints) is more when you just have that USB-C port, and then have to connect pretty much anything to it while out and about... and pretty much nothing else in the world is USB-C. So, you have to dig for dongles or docks that you have to bring along with you.

    I don't think anyone here is opposed to USB-C... just that some are opposed to USB-C only until USB-C starts getting used for actual stuff you'd be plugging in.

    BTW, legacy ports are ports that are no longer widely in use. USB-A isn't legacy, as about the only thing that does have USB-C currently are docks and dongles to adapt all the USB-A stuff to USB-C devices.

    I'll love USB-C someday when I have some USB-C stuff to plug into all those ports on my machine.
    correctionswatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 58
    @crosslad , not trying to minimize the 3 forum posts you linked, but each of them has significant issue that needed to be taken with a grain of salt:
    1. The extremetech link was from November 2016, way before the current trade war escalated, and to this point iPhone sales have not been any target of official retaliation action.

    2. and 3., to start, what western pundits never reported, as far as I can tell, was that, on the private enterprise imposed "boycotts", via corporate salary-cut or non-promotion, even the Chinese government owned newspaper 新京報 had a scolding opinion of that, almost immediately after original reports surfaced. 
    https://new.qq.com/omn/20181224/20181224A0M0MM.htmlUnfortunately, I don't know any good tools to translate the content to english without yielding embarrassingly silly results, but you can try Google translate:https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=zh-CN&tl=en
    And, on that point, even the founder of Huawei founder 任正非 was against it, and stated in a recent interview:https://news.sina.com.cn/o/2019-01-21/doc-ihqfskcn9190615.shtml
    "Some people in China have proposed to boycott Apple phones. Our attitude is that we cannot sacrifice national interests for our company and sacrifice the country’s open reform policy.",  (from Google translate of that link). This is from the very guy who founded Huawei and even had her daughter still detained in Canada.

    Again, not disputing that the sentiments that you mentioned exist, but it would be inaccurate to view the sentiments that as prevailing thinking of the Chinese people. This caution applies already to extract internet comments about US/western politics, and is even more relevant when dealing with projecting Chinese sentiments, given the high level of government censorship.

    correctionswatto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 58
    k2kw said:
    jdw said:
    An excellent editorial.  Thank you, Daniel Eran Dilger.  And truly, no one who has proclaimed doom upon Apple has ever been right.  With that said, I do take issue with the lone premise that "Apple has gone through this before and emerged unscathed" (which is my own interpretation and summary of the editorial).  

    The editorial starts off talking about the G4 Cube (hint, hint -- I obviously own one, and it still works fine, and I still love it) being expensive and more form than function.  And yet the article misses the fact that the MacBook Pro, while always having been expensive, put more emphasis on form than function starting in late 2016.  The MacBook reeks of that, and now the MacBook AIR.  So when the pro-Apple media time and time again admits the G4 Cube was "a failure due to price and form over function," that same pro-Apple media needs to admit something similar when it comes to Apple's design and pricing decisions since late 2016, at least when it comes to the notebook line, which is a very important product line among all the Macs Apple sells.  

    Even AppleInsider recently admitted that a USB-C-only trek to CES was hardship due to the ubiquity of USB-A, and consider well how long USB-C has been on the market.  It doesn't matter how superior a standard is to an old standard if people, regardless of reason, cling to the old standard.  Apple is therefore now somewhat out of touch with the needs of The Rest of Us when it comes to making machines that bridge the needs of today with the tech of tomorrow.  

    Putting just one USB-A port on the 15" MBP (where there's space aplenty to do that) would have eliminated a mountain of complaints.  Had there been 3 USB-C ports and 1 USB-A, the USB-C worshippers surely wouldn't have complained and neither would legacy USB-A product users.  All would have been satisfied with that kind of decision, but three are other considerations too.  Having a good keyboard (unlike the butterfly we have now) is still possible in a thin and light enclosure, as Windows ultrabooks have shown.  Stripping away useful features like the SD card slot, extension power cord in box, LED on charging cable, MagSafe, and adding useless features like the TouchBar, and then eliminating fun features like the glowing Apple logo are all obnoxious changes to satisfy a Johnny Ive who has run dry of insanely great ideas, rather than improvements that benefit the Mac-loving masses.  These are facts that we should not try to defend only because we love Apple, but instead admit them as failures, just as Steve Jobs did when Apple screwed up under his watch.  "The launch of MobileMe was not our finest hour," Steve said.  In like manner, the emphasis of form over function in Apple notebooks is also not indicative of Apple's finest.

    In the end, I want Apple to succeed.  Believe me, as an AAPL shareholder since 1999, I really, really want them to succeed.  But I also want to continue being enthralled by and attracted to Macs.  It saddens me to admit that I have zero attraction to Apple notebooks today.  Even if they were 50% off, I wouldn't buy them because the mid-2015 15" MBP is a Mac that satisfies my needs today and can run the latest MacOS. It's just that at some future point I will need to upgrade, and I shudder to think how stripped-down those future machines will be in light of how form takes so much more precedence than function in today's Apple notebooks.  Indeed, the only great computer that Apple makes is the iMac (no SD card slot on the 2018 Mini keeps it from greatness).  And while that's a perfect choice for a Mac desktop machine, there is need for great features in an Apple-branded notebook too.

    Look, we Mac users who have been with Apple since 1984 know full well about Apple being pricey relative to silly DOS and Windows machines.  But the question is, does Apple make a Mac that satisfies the needs of most Mac users today?  And no, that question doesn't mean "satisfy me when I buy add-on dongles?" but rather "satisfy me with features out of the box, as is?"  For me, and for many other Mac lovers, that answer is sadly, No.  We aren't satisfied.  And it's not because we are chronic complainers.  Indeed, Apple did satisfy our needs in the past. And for that reason, many among us cannot help but feel Apple's pricing is not inline with the features we get versus the features we need and expect.  Give us the features we need and crave and we will love you in spite of the price.  We the consumer keep Apple alive and well, not visa versa.
    ^^^What a brilliant post. 

    I finally decided to buckle, and buy a new 15” MBP, but I have to say that it is the least exciting and least anticipated Apple purchase I’ve ever made. The Touchbar is a useless, unnecessary, cutesy piece of sh**. USB-C is an underachiever. And I dread not having MagSafe for the first time in years. 
    I agree with you on the TouchBar.   I want to touch it like Dracula wants to touch a crucifix.    The surprising thing is that Apple seemed was quite pleased with it:

    https: techcrunch dot com/2017/04/06/transcript-phil-schiller-craig-federighi-and-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/?_ga=2.90399132.784198535.1548635157-1632605040.1464346619

    Phil Schiller: We think we’re off to a good start with the Touch Bar. That it is intuitive for everybody in general and specifically does give some incredible capabilities for pro users. And as we’ve started to see more and more adoption in pro apps, our own – obviously Logic supports it, as does Final Cut and third-party apps have done a real good job starting to support it. We’re seeing some really brilliant uses of it.

    Almost 3 years since its introduction if the Touchbar was that great they would find a way to offer it on their desktops.   I think it was a misfire like the butterfly keyboard..
    Adding touchbar to a notebook is pretty simple. Adding it to an external keyboard opens up various problems: is it a touch-display driven over USB? Will that be responsive enough?

    Or is it controlled by a T2 computer in the keyboard, increasing the costs of the keyboard and requiring the engineering of how a coprocessor like the T2 can be hot-disconnected from a Mac (unplugging a USB keyboard isn't expected to crash your system), and what security problems that might open up if you can disconnect a trusted keyboard with a fingerprint sensor and then reconnect it (or another one)? 

    Do you want to pay $250 for a keyboard, and on every replacement? Maybe in the future Apple will have sold enough touchbar MBPs to drive the price of an OLED strip screen and Tx subsystems down to where it could be added to an external keyboard. Or maybe it will license TouchBar out to third-party peripheral makers. 

    Once again, I think you are so busy thinking up so many negatives about Apple that they are simply contradicting themselves. You can't pout about how miserable the existence of TouchBar obliterates the value your life (FFS) and then turn around and demand to know why it also isn't embedded in an external keyboard for desktop Macs.

    The problems you cite facing Apple appear to live inside your head and those of a few other vocal people. They don't really exist for the majority of people in the real world. Don't confuse any of the personal pet peeves you can invent for yourself with real and significant problems that anyone else actually experiences. That's what invented #HoldingItWrongGate and #Bendgate and #IPhoneXIsTooExpensiveForAnyoneToAffordGate and #ChinaIsBoycottingAppleGate etc

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 58
    I'm disappointed with the HomePod. It's barely a foot in the water and completely ignored home theatre enthusiasts.
    Where did Apple frame the HP as a home theatre offering? It was squarely marketed for music.

    That being said, I use mine for Apple TV video as well. I even bought a $400 Sonos Beam since I'd read (hear and elsewhere) that it was better for dialog, but in many A:B tests we concluded the HP sounded better there too (music was no a no-question win). Returned. I'd be curious how HP compares to the expensive, big Bose sound bar, but I'm not sure I'm ready to put that in my living room yet. The HP is almost invisible it takes up so little space.
    I never said they framed the HP for home theatre.

    I specifically said they ignored home theatre. Which I think was a mistake. I'm a long APPL investor and want Apple disrupting product categories. 1 speaker was disappointing.
  • Reply 57 of 58
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member
    corrections said:
    Do you want to pay $250 for a keyboard, and on every replacement? Maybe in the future Apple will have sold enough touchbar MBPs to drive the price of an OLED strip screen and Tx subsystems down to where it could be added to an external keyboard. Or maybe it will license TouchBar out to third-party peripheral makers.
    I'd actually pay $250 not to have it (if I were buying a MBP). I'm glad the new mini came out so I didn't have to cross that bridge.

    But, I think you bring up good points about the issues with bringing it across the product line. Which makes me think it was more a one-off 'innovate my a--' kind of bling-thing to differentiate the new MBP from a laptop market that was gaining to rapidly (or surpassing) what Apple was doing. Or, in other words, it was never intended to be the 'next thing' in computer UI. My hunch is that in a decade, we'll no longer know what a Touch Bar is, besides having some past memory of it.
  • Reply 58 of 58
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,314member

    StrangeDays said:
    I'd be curious how HP compares to the expensive, big Bose sound bar, but I'm not sure I'm ready to put that in my living room yet. The HP is almost invisible it takes up so little space.
    I never said they framed the HP for home theatre.
    I specifically said they ignored home theatre. Which I think was a mistake.
    They purposely hampered it from being used for home theatre by not including any kind of audio in. How in the world can StrangeDays use it for a home theatre, since the audio wouldn't be synced with the video? I'd actually be interested in the HP if it had audio-in. Not having that makes it too limited, no matter how good it sounds.
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