-- Why is APPLE so stupid ?!?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I?ve been reading through these and other threads, and it really struck me how disillusioned so many Mac fanatics are. (And we are Mac fanatics, those of us who are here).



We all know Apple is having trouble delivering the ?goods? on the CPU front, but I bet many of us would not be nearly as frustrated or critical of Apple if we didn?t get the distinct feeling that Apple is shafting us.



Let me illustrate my point. Many are bemoaning Apple?s ?price to value ratio?. Now, there is much validity to this argument. Those that are bemoaning this, and are pointing Apple?s ?power? line as an example, are really not in a position to purchase a $2,000 plus machine. What they really want is to purchase a machine like an eMac or an iMac at an eMac or iMac price, but have the options of expandability offered by the ?power? line.



So if Apple can offer a 17? CRT monitor with an 800 MHz G4 CPU for about $1,000 USD, why can?t they offer a similar ?value? through their ?power? line. A similar argument can be made regards the new iMac. People who are computer savvy will never buy an iMac no matter how sexy it is, simply because it is a dead end. But if Apple offered them an expandable box which included an 800 MHz G4 CPU, a superdrive, a 17? widescreen LCD cinema display, and a decent GPU option, for $2,000 USD, I bet Apple couldn?t make enough of them.



Apple has acknowledged that games play an important role in selling computers. And the library of kick ass games available for the Mac is now steadily improving. OS X is a major factor in that. And Apple has been promoting these games every chance it gets. But what pc ?switcher? is going to buy an iMac or eMac knowing that the graphic card in those machine is not upgradeable and is already pretty much obsolete even with regards to the current crop of games coming down the pipeline.



Apple needs to keep its loyal base happy if it wishes to develop and expand its market mind share. It needs to treat its would be customers with more respect. People are not stupid. Most are now 2nd or 3rd generation computer owners. They understand computers. People are loosing patience with Apple. But I think Apple can keep a large part of its following happy if it applies some of the thinking above. Maybe long enough to keep them on board through this CPU drought. (temporary, I hope)





mika.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 71
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    I guess you're just too smart for us all.
  • Reply 2 of 71
    g4dudeg4dude Posts: 1,016member
    [quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:

    <strong>I guess you're just too smart for us all.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    BuonRotto, you're an asshole. Well said PC^KILLA
  • Reply 3 of 71
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Well for a start lower prices aren't so likely right now as Apple has said to analysts it will be keeping it's margins in an effort to weather the economic downturn. Good business sense? Maybe. There is certainly an argument for it. As it happens you will find a lot of the charge for .Mac and Jaguar is about boosting the margins back up a little.



    You'll find though that Apple really isn't chasing after the hardcore gamer's though, which is really the group you are largely talking about. They are currently chasing the middle class family that just wants a computer to do basic stuff. Most of these people really don't care or even know so much about expandability of their computers and Apple is aiming the line at them relatively well.



    Now what your complaint seems to be is the fact that Apple's low end tower really just sucks. It has been completely canibalised by the top end iMacs, which don't provide expandability you want if you look at towers. This basically leaves you wanting to step up a rung in order to get a little better value but that has an extra expense, which you don't want.



    All I can say to that is wait and see what solution Apple offers with the new PowerMacs. They need to aim so a low end powermac + LCD comes in at sub $2000 though and I am sure they realise this. I'm sure they also realise their current low end PowerMac probably just isn't selling.



    The strategy really isn't so stupid except where the low end tower is concerned.



    [ 07-18-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
  • Reply 4 of 71
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    [/i]<a href="http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=technologynews&StoryID=121 4469" target="_blank">Chief Financial Officer Fred Anderson also said</a> that there would be more new products this quarter and that Apple intended to price them competitively.

    [/i]



    He's pretty much referring to next month. Lets see if we get a 1GHz low end Mac for $1000.
  • Reply 5 of 71
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Games? That's what you're basing the majority of your argument on? That you can't upgrade the video card to play games? Everyone I know uses a computer. One of them plays games on his computer. You know, not all real people care about computer games. Teenage boys do. And even then, only some teenage boys. Why is this what it always comes back to?



    I'm an avid computer user. Not once in my years as a computer user did I upgrade my video card. Not once in the past several years have I even upgraded anything in my computer. Not everyone cares about FPS or strategy or the latest obscenely violent, resource intensive, life-sucking computer game. Damn, go buy a PC so you can play everquest and never have to talk to a real person again.



    In case you missed the point of my post: Most computer users don't give a flying fvck about graphics cards. It's all about perception. Sorry for the rant.... Actually, no I'm not. Teenage boys need to grow up...
  • Reply 6 of 71
    [quote]In case you missed the point of my post: Most computer users don't give a flying fvck about graphics cards.<hr></blockquote>



    Yeah, all they care about is GHz, price and that they can run Windows. Well-done Apple! &lt;jumps in asbestos disposal heap&gt;&lt;gets lung cancer&gt;
  • Reply 7 of 71
    <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />



    I?d be curious to know what percentage of these teenagers provide the motivating drive in the decision to purchase a new computer? I bet it is very significant.





    mika.
  • Reply 8 of 71
    max8319max8319 Posts: 347member
    you're going to be lucky to see a ghz G4 in a $2000 machine (imac 17")
  • Reply 9 of 71
    max8319max8319 Posts: 347member




    [ 07-18-2002: Message edited by: Max8319 ]</p>
  • Reply 10 of 71
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    I here the moderator's footsteps. They're coming down the hall!

    Seriously though, move the thread.

    It's not future hardware, it's bitchathon 3000.



    [ 07-18-2002: Message edited by: Flounder ]



    [ 07-18-2002: Message edited by: Flounder ]</p>
  • Reply 11 of 71
    nonsuchnonsuch Posts: 293member
    [quote]Originally posted by torifile:

    <strong>Damn, go buy a PC so you can play everquest and never have to talk to a real person again. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Uh oh ... you heard Everquest is coming to the Mac?
  • Reply 12 of 71
    thresherthresher Posts: 35member
    I'm 37 and I play games just about every day. So do most of my friends. We're all avid computer users and all gamers. We are probably somewhat of an exception, but not entirely.



    More people play games than you realize. Furthermore, these teen-aged kids to which you refer probably have the most impact on the buying decision. They are more important to the buying decision of the middle class family than anything else. Keep in mind, these kids were raised on computers, they understand them, and don't have the fear of technology that many of their parents have.



    I love my PB, but I don't game on it. I have a desktop, home-built rig with all the bells and whistles that I use for gaming. BTW, including monitor, it cost less for me to put together than this brand new laptop.



    What can I say, the Mac is quite possibly the coolest piece of hardware on the planet, but it doesn't game well.



    It's been said before, but if they ported OS X to a proprietary version of the X86-64 (AMD Hammer line), MS would be singing the blues. OS X DOES kick Windows XP rear end, but the guts of the box, well, that's a different story,.
  • Reply 13 of 71
    jerombajeromba Posts: 357member
    about prices...

    If I buy an iMac 17 -&gt; $1999

    If I buy a PowerMac 800 with the same configuration -&gt; $2957 minus the Screen Saver Promo ($450 -&gt; $2507



    I think the iMac is a better buy
  • Reply 14 of 71
    Torifile you are an idiot, if you are a too cool for school mister all grown up, and you dont play games then fine, but don't be a blind fool. People care about graphics cards and a lot of people care about their CPUs being able to play games. Why don't you compare the sales of Microsft Office with the sales of Warcraft 3. There is a reason Jobs talks about the games coming to Mac all the time, but I guess you know more about how to get people to buy Macs than him and his marketing people.



    For the moderators...Apple does need am expandable and inexpensive computer.
  • Reply 15 of 71
    And this has what to do with Future Hardware? [maybe I'm still missing the point...]
  • Reply 16 of 71
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    I just don't know why Mac users complain IN JULY! Every vet KNOWS there are new machines coming but July becomes their Warchant...or should I say Whinechant. Computers are for the most part a hobby...one in which the hobbyists attempt to keep the costs as low as possible hence the vitriol about the price of Macs and services like .mac. HN(Human Nature)
  • Reply 17 of 71
    [quote]Originally posted by torifile:

    <strong>Games? That's what you're basing the majority of your argument on? That you can't upgrade the video card to play games?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Back when my Amiga occupied the place of honor on my desk, it was continually villified & ridiculed as a game box, not a real computer.



    Now, a mac sits here...and it gets villified & ridiculed because it's NOT a game machine. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />



    Torifile, your points are well-made, but not well-taken: one guy trumpts his approach to 40 & crows about his addiction to games; I know guys like that - they ignore their wives and children because they have preserved their adolescent self-obsession intact, they spend all their time & money on computer stuff & their online buddies.



    In short, they're pathetic sh!tbags who can't manage the reality & responsibilities of real life & real relationships, and push away the people who love them & depend on them; swearing on the one hand that no-one's the boss of them, and wailing on the other that only other alienated, clueless Shamu-types understand the pain of having to live around stupid people who don't understand them.



    Torifile is right: teen-aged boys (whatever their age) need to grow up & get a grip (not like that, Stimpy - your boss is coming....). It's a job for real men to help them do so - and not suffering immature fools gladly is as good a place to start as any.



    Having said that - Torifile, no need to wander into one of these circle-jerks, thinking it's NOT a loud-mouthed, small-brained, thinking-impaired pissing contest. Hell, I'm just glad there are other grown-ups around here, even tho I resent feeling the occasional need to set a good example for other people's kids.
  • Reply 18 of 71
    The initial post had a core point which is totally fair. Apple is making you pay *through the nose* for expandability, exactly the feature that make PCs appealing. Why keep the margins tight as heck for the iMac and then make 30-50% on the PM line even in the low end? How can we get PC people to "switch" then? Plus right now Apple is asking them to just throw away or sell cheap the $200 to $1000 displays they already like and use without problems. Let them choose an LCD when it comes time, don't hold them hostage by making them pay for one just to get a decent system.



    And for the record, gamers *drive* high-end hardware sales on the PC side. They spend a *lot* of money every year to upgrade their systems. They are cash cows and Apple should be grabbing them. Who cares if Joe down the street "switches" and buys a new iMac today and then no new computer for 5 years? (this happended to Apple with the switchers from the iMac line for sure). Joe will only give Apple (or any hardware company) his money two or three times per decade) and that's assuming that consumer switchers become loyal Mac Users, which is certainly not a guarantee. Gamers spend money on their systems *every year*.



    I know a lot of gamers who admire Mac OS from a distance, and are willing to buy a Mac once the price point is sane. Then they will buy another, and another, and buy games for Mac OS, and there'll so more and more overall software development for Mac OS... Incidently, since gamers frequently upgrade every 12-18 months, expecting them to buy a new display every time (a la iMac) is one of the deterrents for many of them. Gamers want to buy an awesome display once, then keep it until the next awesome display comes along (often 3-4 years).



    So I'll bring this back to future hardware:



    Apple needs to release a pro-sumer mini-tower or reborn affordable Cube in August. Doesn't need to have multiple PCI slots, but needs an upgradeable GPU, and while we're at it 3 standard memory slots, cuz paying the difference for the SO-DIMM to upgrade RAM on the G4 iMac is a bad idea too.



    So there. Gimme a G4 800-933 MHz microtower or Cube, same feature set as the 17" G4 iMac except:



    1. 4X AGP slot

    2. Standard SD (or if luck DDR) RAM

    3. No integrated display (let me decide for myself what kind of display I want/can afford)



    I mean, I could scream for super, duper specs. But the computer I noted above would sell like frigging hotcakes tomorrow if it cost maybe $1199 to $1599 US. This is less money than the G4 iMac, but would still leave Apple with a better margin on the machine B/C they don't have to buy the LCD.



    So I'm really, really hoping that they do this in August. Maybe it's not "thinking different" but it is thinking smart and thinking profitable.



    [ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: W1lsonStark ]



    [ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: W1lsonStark ]</p>
  • Reply 19 of 71
    [quote]Originally posted by W1lsonStark:

    <strong>...the computer I noted above would sell like frigging hotcakes tomorrow...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Dude, I love hotcakes! I also missed breakfast this morning. They cost $1.99 for 3 Hotcakes and 1 Sausage patty. They also give you 2 little plastic things with butter in them and 2 syrups. Um.... Dang, those are so good. Now I'm gonna hvae to go to IHOP (blast!). I prefer McDonalds but they already stopped serving. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
  • Reply 20 of 71
    Sounds like a Cube there, W1lson.



    Ah, we can only hope...
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