Apple's self-driving 'Project Titan' car technology allegedly stolen by second employee, s...

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  • Reply 21 of 44
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    Soli said:
    mobird said:
    This isn't just a Apple problem, this is a USA problem…
    Is there an innovative corporation in any country that won't have its fair share of industrial espionage to contend with?
    The extent of genuine innovation -- I don't mean just patent filings, which are dime-a-dozen -- coming out of the US far outnumbers that of any other nation. More importantly, so many business models in tech, where the predominant asset is intellectual property, spring from the US. So yes, this is qualitatively a USA problem.

    Moreover, the sheer economic scale of China, and it stated ambitions (e.g., their 2025 Plan) take this problem to a new level.
    You really believe that no other company in any other country deals with espionage? 🤦‍♂️ Not Tata, not Samsung, not Mercedes, not Boeing? No one but companies in the US? You might as well drink more of that Kool-Aid and claim it only happens to Apple.
  • Reply 22 of 44
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,542member
    gutengel said:
    Why do they keep hiring Chinese people?

    This is a bad time for Chinese-Western relations, but to not hire because of race would be unethical. Not all Chinese people are bad. Some are very thankful for the opportunities offered to them here in the Western world.

    This stealing of IP was going on way, WAY before the current state-of-affairs with China.  Honestly, why do companies like Apple hire Chinese nationals to do work in the U.S.?  If an employee is here on a work visa from China, knowing they have connections back to the tyrannical country, then assume they are here to eventually learn/steal IP to take back to China.  

    Seriously... this isn't protectioinism.  Until China does makes actual progress in prosecuting its citizens for these kinds of crimes, assume China is a rogue country in general.  They just can't be trusted.

    And what of that unnamed self-driving Chinese company the spy was going to work for?  I'd bet they'll play stupid and pretend they had no idea what this guy was bringing with him.

    1983
  • Reply 23 of 44
    Tim Cook bends over backwards to try to grow business in China and this what they do to him.  Can you stay stabbed in the back
    Are you really surprised?
  • Reply 24 of 44
    gutengel said:
    Why do they keep hiring Chinese people?
    Anyone who is hired is a calculated risk when it comes to these things. Human nature = possibility of corruption. 
  • Reply 25 of 44
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,931member
    Americans(including me) are stupid,polarized when political views are concern against country's long term interest,survival. If Republican take steps against Chinese, Democrats will go against and vice versa. We are hurting ourselves and even don't know. So, in long term USA is doomed and learn Chinese language,culture,etc because you all will be working,kissing their butt. Chinese have been stealing,copying,hacking for a long time and no one had raised flag/alarm until the house is already burned more than half. Wake up you idiot Americans,Europenas,etc and join forces against Chinese.
    buzdots1983
  • Reply 26 of 44
    sflocal said:
    This stealing of IP was going on way, WAY before the current state-of-affairs with China.  Honestly, why do companies like Apple hire Chinese nationals to do work in the U.S.?  If an employee is here on a work visa from China, knowing they have connections back to the tyrannical country, then assume they are here to eventually learn/steal IP to take back to China.  
    Guilty until proven innocent, then.




  • Reply 27 of 44
    gutengel said:
    Why do they keep hiring Chinese people?
    It's either shortages of skilled workers in the U.S. or it's cheaper to hire outsider.
    edited January 30 1983
  • Reply 28 of 44
    mobird said:
    This isn't just a Apple problem, this is a USA problem...
    This is a huge problem in the western world. The Chinese are stealing from companies and universities. The only solution is to stop giving visas to Chinese nationals but that will unlikely never happen. 
    Yeh, yeh, yeh....   That's what we said 40 years ago when the Japanese were supposedly copying our stuff and selling it back to us.   It turned out, they were just better than us.

    Today there was an article about former American intelligence agents pulling in $200-$400K salaries for spying on America for the UAE using American spy techinques.

    But, yeh, let's blame the Chinese!  It's the politically correct thing to do.   It distracts from Russia
    Those examples are completely irrelevant to what the Chinese are doing. Do you really think China would be where they are today without stealing all this technology? It's happening all over the place. Chinese nationals getting caught stealing from companies and universities. It's a huge problem. Not sure what Russia has to do with any of this. Maybe you should read some of these articles:

    https://www.newsweek.com/china-military-sends-undercover-students-american-universities-steal-1197652

    https://www.foxnews.com/science/chinese-stealing-biomedical-research-from-u-s-labs-and-universities

    https://www.wral.com/student-accused-of-stealing-research-from-duke-professor-under-chinese-government-order/17722099/


    LOL...  That is what I just pointed out:     "Yeh, yeh, yeh....   That's what we said 40 years ago when the Japanese were supposedly copying our stuff and selling it back to us.   It turned out, they were just better than us."

    The fact that they can outcompete us does not mean they got there by stealing our stuff -- regardless of what the (mostly right wing) propaganda sites say.   Actually, the ones screaming about China are mostly right wing politicians rather than security agencies.   
  • Reply 29 of 44

    gutengel said:
    Why do they keep hiring Chinese people?
    Asian workers tend to be better educated and they work harder.   
    1983
  • Reply 30 of 44

    Well. This is side effect of globalization. Nobody said industrial espionage is gonna go away. Some may need to understand fundamentals and stop making them into politics.
    Thank you!   Well said!

    From all the anguish over China one would think that they invented industrial espionage!
    Weak politicians always need a target to distract from their own faults and problems.   Lately its been the Chinese
  • Reply 31 of 44


    It turned out, they were just better than us.
    Really? In tech (including software skills, social media, e-commerce, and services), where the problem really lies? Who are some of the great Japanese competitors who are "...better than us" compared to, say, Apple, Google, Facebook, Tesla, Netflix, AMD, Amazon, and Microsoft?

    I'll wait.
    If you read what I said, it was an analogy siting what we were saying about the Japenese back in the 80's.   And, if you want examples:  Toyota, Honda, Sony, Panasonic and their various steel companies -- each of them buried us.   

    But, the tide has shifted from Japan over to China.   So, now when we complain about being out competed we claim they stole the technology -- just like we did with the Japanese.   It lets the fools keep believing that we have the best workers in the world.  

    1983
  • Reply 32 of 44
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    gutengel said:
    Why do they keep hiring Chinese people?
    It's either shortages of skilled workers in the U.S. or it's cheaper to hire outsider.
    It can be (and usually is) both.
  • Reply 33 of 44
    stukestuke Posts: 83member
    Wow, what a shocker.  Someone from Southeast Asia is stealing intellectual property from a western company. Where have I heard that before?
    edited January 30 SpamSandwich
  • Reply 34 of 44
    buzdotsbuzdots Posts: 449member
    mobird said:
    This isn't just a Apple problem, this is a USA problem...
    This is a huge problem in the western world. The Chinese are stealing from companies and universities. The only solution is to stop giving visas to Chinese nationals but that will unlikely never happen. 
    Yeh, yeh, yeh....   That's what we said 40 years ago when the Japanese were supposedly copying our stuff and selling it back to us.   It turned out, they were just better than us.

    Today there was an article about former American intelligence agents pulling in $200-$400K salaries for spying on America for the UAE using American spy techinques.

    But, yeh, let's blame the Chinese!  It's the politically correct thing to do.   It distracts from Russia
    Better than us?  Are you kiddin' me?  Are you old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant it was SHIT.  Yeah, they upped their game BECAUSE of the technology stolen from us - and yeah, the US rebuilt their country and their economy for them after WWII.  How can you go wrong with a deal like that?

    Russia doesn't have a friggin thing to do with this conversation - except they are also thieves of our tech.

    We won't go into the US citizens who have sold their souls and everything they can get their hands on for a quick buck. They should be publically shot - free admission.  There's where PC come in.

    I digress...
  • Reply 35 of 44
    Tim Cook bends over backwards to try to grow business in China and this what they do to him.  Can you stay stabbed in the back
    A couple things wrong with your statement. 

    bends over backwards to try to grow business - anyone doing business knows there's work involved in acquiring customers. No effort, no result. It's not like Apple is a charity and giving away iPhones. 
    what "they" do to him - as if every single person in China is a "they" and a backstabber. 

    Who are the racists who liked your post? 
  • Reply 36 of 44
    What’s a wiring harness? Anyone have any idea? Lol 
    1983
  • Reply 37 of 44
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    mobird said:
    This isn't just a Apple problem, this is a USA problem…
    Is there an innovative corporation in any country that won't have its fair share of industrial espionage to contend with?
    The extent of genuine innovation -- I don't mean just patent filings, which are dime-a-dozen -- coming out of the US far outnumbers that of any other nation. More importantly, so many business models in tech, where the predominant asset is intellectual property, spring from the US. So yes, this is qualitatively a USA problem.

    Moreover, the sheer economic scale of China, and it stated ambitions (e.g., their 2025 Plan) take this problem to a new level.
    You really believe that no other company in any other country deals with espionage? 🤦‍♂️ Not Tata, not Samsung, not Mercedes, not Boeing? No one but companies in the US? You might as well drink more of that Kool-Aid and claim it only happens to Apple.
    You really should re-read what I wrote. 
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 38 of 44


    It turned out, they were just better than us.
    Really? In tech (including software skills, social media, e-commerce, and services), where the problem really lies? Who are some of the great Japanese competitors who are "...better than us" compared to, say, Apple, Google, Facebook, Tesla, Netflix, AMD, Amazon, and Microsoft?

    I'll wait.
    If you read what I said, it was an analogy siting what we were saying about the Japenese back in the 80's.   And, if you want examples:  Toyota, Honda, Sony, Panasonic and their various steel companies -- each of them buried us.   

    But, the tide has shifted from Japan over to China.   So, now when we complain about being out competed we claim they stole the technology -- just like we did with the Japanese.   It lets the fools keep believing that we have the best workers in the world.  

    The fact that US was largely supine over Japan’s IP theft in the 1980s — although, in fairness, Ronald Reagan went after them, resulting in auto/auto-parts quotas and the Semiconductor Trade Agreement — only makes a stronger case for why it should go after a much larger-scale of IP theft from a disproportionately IP-intensive set of industries in which the US is the world leader. 
    edited January 31
  • Reply 39 of 44
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    mobird said:
    This isn't just a Apple problem, this is a USA problem…
    Is there an innovative corporation in any country that won't have its fair share of industrial espionage to contend with?
    The extent of genuine innovation -- I don't mean just patent filings, which are dime-a-dozen -- coming out of the US far outnumbers that of any other nation. More importantly, so many business models in tech, where the predominant asset is intellectual property, spring from the US. So yes, this is qualitatively a USA problem.

    Moreover, the sheer economic scale of China, and it stated ambitions (e.g., their 2025 Plan) take this problem to a new level.
    You really believe that no other company in any other country deals with espionage? 🤦‍♂️ Not Tata, not Samsung, not Mercedes, not Boeing? No one but companies in the US? You might as well drink more of that Kool-Aid and claim it only happens to Apple.
    You really should re-read what I wrote. 
    You disagreed with my statement that it happens to innovative corporations around the world and said very plainly that it's an USA problem with the clear implication that it's only a USA problem.
  • Reply 40 of 44
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,564member
    L’see here …

    ”In case of hick-level racism outbreak, break glass.”

    https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1086441482637045760/pl/KdGsA06HNDYFW6tW.m3u8?tag=11


    Soliravnorodom
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