Huawei sues U.S. government, says purchasing ban unconstitutional

Posted:
in General Discussion edited March 18
Chinese smartphone and communications equipment manufacturer Huawei on Thursday local time followed through with threats to sue the U.S. government over legislation that bars government agencies from buying its products.

Huawei Mate 10


In a complaint filed with a U.S. district court in Texas, Huawei claims elements of 2018's U.S. National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) (PDF link) that limit government agency spending are unconstitutional. Specifically, section 889 of NDAA, entitled "Prohibition on certain telecommunications and video surveillance services," restricts executive government agencies from purchasing telecommunications equipment manufactured by Huawei and ZTE.

As noted by CNBC, Huawei claims the NDAA provision is a "bill of attainder," or a legislative act that declares a person or persons guilty of an act and punishes them without due process. Such legislation is deemed unconstitutional.

Further, by codifying a prohibition under NDAA, the U.S. government is depriving Huawei of due process, disallowing it of hearing charges or fighting those allegations in court.

Section 889 was born from government allegations of espionage on the part of Huawei and ZTE. Despite Huawei's consistent denial of those claims, the U.S. has sought not only to rid official agencies of the company's hardware, but impress security concerns on consumers.

"The U.S. Congress has repeatedly failed to produce any evidence to support its restrictions on Huawei products," Huawei Rotating Chairman Gu Ping said in a statement, reports Reuters.

Separately, Huawei, company CFO Wanzhou Meng and "unofficial affiliate" Skycom are facing U.S. Department of Justice charges for bank fraud, wire fraud, violations of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) and conspiracy to commit money laundering.

Prosecutors allege Huawei conducted business operations in Iran through Skycom in violation of U.S. sanctions on the country and subsequently lied about banking partnerships tied to the endeavor. Charges also include allegations that Huawei personnel stole trade secrets relating to a T-Mobile robot called "Tappy." The company is also charged with obstruction for allegedly moving witnesses beyond U.S. reach and attempting to destroy or conceal evidence from investigators.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 122
    LOL.  Case dismissed in 3... 2... 1....
    applesnorangeseriamjhSpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 122
    It’s funny how many fandroids get very upset at the fact that they cannot buy Huawei devices here and scream that there is no proof about any allegations of espionage. 

    The simple fact that the CIA and the NSA issued the warning isn’t good enough for them. I get not trusting some parts of our govt, but when the part that spies on other countries warns the American people that there is a real risk, I think we should listen. 
    macseekergeorgie01StrangeDayschasmDAalsethtommikeleAppleExposedwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 3 of 122
    payecopayeco Posts: 271member
    What are they hoping to achieve here? Even if they win no government agencies are going to purchase their equipment. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 122
    georgie01georgie01 Posts: 221member
    It seems more like a taunting by Huawei, trying to see how much they can control the government. I’m 100% for smaller government, but sometimes we need to take drastic action in the interest of national security even if we don’t have concrete evidence. I wonder if the government does in fact have concrete evidence but revealing it would reveal other secrets the general public is better off not knowing.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 122
    Kept Tim safe
  • Reply 6 of 122
    mervynyan said:
    Kept Tim safe

    What does that even mean?
    StrangeDaysmac_dogmwhiteAppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 122

    At least America has rights that allow such suits.

    Apple can do jack shit about the boycott tactics in China.

    tmaypbruttorandominternetpersonstompylordjohnwhorfinAppleExposedwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 8 of 122
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,874member
    Can we sue China for making political dissidents of their authoritative regime disappear? Or do such rules of civilization which they claim to be a victim of in this case only apply to western states?
    pbruttomdriftmeyerAppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 122
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,874member
    It’s funny how many fandroids get very upset at the fact that they cannot buy Huawei devices here and scream that there is no proof about any allegations of espionage. 

    The simple fact that the CIA and the NSA issued the warning isn’t good enough for them. I get not trusting some parts of our govt, but when the part that spies on other countries warns the American people that there is a real risk, I think we should listen. 
    Especially when it’s all the heads of six intelligence agencies, operating in unison.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/14/17011246/huawei-phones-safe-us-intelligence-chief-fears

    The same agencies that said Russia meddled in the election and are no friends to the administration. Their findings were valid then, but now they aren’t — for the Chinese Cheer Squad, anyway. 

    Cognitive dissonance, much?


    chasmArianneFeldrywatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 122
    It’s funny how many fandroids get very upset at the fact that they cannot buy Huawei devices here and scream that there is no proof about any allegations of espionage. 

    The simple fact that the CIA and the NSA issued the warning isn’t good enough for them. I get not trusting some parts of our govt, but when the part that spies on other countries warns the American people that there is a real risk, I think we should listen. 
    Especially when it’s all the heads of six intelligence agencies, operating in unison.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/14/17011246/huawei-phones-safe-us-intelligence-chief-fears

    The same agencies that said Russia meddled in the election and are no friends to the administration. Their findings were valid then, but now they aren’t — for the Chinese Cheer Squad, anyway. 

    Cognitive dissonance, much?


    It almost like a disease. People would risk having their info monitored by another country just to have a shiny new toy. 
    I don’t like the thought of my country tracking me, but the thought of another country tracking me creeps me out. 

    Has anyone seen how many cameras China has in public to watch them? Do they get that you can get arrested by looking at a website they label as subversive?

    They still want the device because it will do 5G. Great trade off!!
    tmayStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 122
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 651member
    Last time I checked, due process wasn’t a part of the Chinese form of government. Who cares? With all the Chinese spies, I think this is a good idea. 
    Carnagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 122
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,464member
    It’s funny how many fandroids get very upset at the fact that they cannot buy Huawei devices here and scream that there is no proof about any allegations of espionage. 

    The simple fact that the CIA and the NSA issued the warning isn’t good enough for them. I get not trusting some parts of our govt, but when the part that spies on other countries warns the American people that there is a real risk, I think we should listen. 
    Especially when it’s all the heads of six intelligence agencies, operating in unison.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/14/17011246/huawei-phones-safe-us-intelligence-chief-fears

    The same agencies that said Russia meddled in the election and are no friends to the administration. Their findings were valid then, but now they aren’t — for the Chinese Cheer Squad, anyway. 

    Cognitive dissonance, much?


    It almost like a disease. People would risk having their info monitored by another country just to have a shiny new toy. 
    I don’t like the thought of my country tracking me, but the thought of another country tracking me creeps me out. 

    Has anyone seen how many cameras China has in public to watch them? Do they get that you can get arrested by looking at a website they label as subversive?

    They still want the device because it will do 5G. Great trade off!!
    I'll play;

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2019-03-06/problem-xis-china-model?utm_source=twitter_posts&utm_campaign=tw_daily_soc&utm_medium=social

    "Under Xi’s leadership, the party now has eyes everywhere—literally. As many as 200 million surveillance cameras have already been installed in an effort to reduce crime and control social unrest. The surveillance technology will also play an essential role in the 2020 national rollout of the country’s social credit system, which will evaluate people’s political and economic trustworthiness and reward and punish them accordingly. The CCP has now established party committees within nearly 70 percentof all private enterprises and joint ventures, in order to ensure that the businesses advance the interests of the state. Beijing has also succeeded in constraining outside influences: thanks to a law passed two years ago, for example, the number of foreign nongovernmental organizations operating in China has fallen from more than 7,000to just over 400. And “Made in China 2025”—China’s plan to protect its domestic firms from foreign competition in ten areas of critical cutting-edge technology—is well under way. The Sichuan provincial government, for example, has stipulated that for 15 types of medical devices, hospitals will be reimbursed only for procedures that use Chinese-manufactured devices."
    Huawei is has been very successful in the emerging nations selling their telecom systems at low prices, with subsidies, and even with financing, all with the blessings and support of the CCP. Western nations have not been as welcoming, citing issues of National Security.

    Coincidentally, those countries that have bans or attempted bans of Huawei telecom, are seeing unusual retaliation in the form of export contract cancellations, and export "friction", a sure sign the the Chinese Government has an interest in Huawei's success in the West. Likely as well, the two unlucky Canadian's picked up for "spying", are hostages in the extradition drama of Meng Wanzhou, Huawei CFO.

    yet more;

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-06/diplomatic-outbursts-mar-xi-s-plan-to-raise-china-on-world-stage
    edited March 7 watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 122
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,318member
    tmay said:
    It’s funny how many fandroids get very upset at the fact that they cannot buy Huawei devices here and scream that there is no proof about any allegations of espionage. 

    The simple fact that the CIA and the NSA issued the warning isn’t good enough for them. I get not trusting some parts of our govt, but when the part that spies on other countries warns the American people that there is a real risk, I think we should listen. 
    Especially when it’s all the heads of six intelligence agencies, operating in unison.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/14/17011246/huawei-phones-safe-us-intelligence-chief-fears

    The same agencies that said Russia meddled in the election and are no friends to the administration. Their findings were valid then, but now they aren’t — for the Chinese Cheer Squad, anyway. 

    Cognitive dissonance, much?


    It almost like a disease. People would risk having their info monitored by another country just to have a shiny new toy. 
    I don’t like the thought of my country tracking me, but the thought of another country tracking me creeps me out. 

    Has anyone seen how many cameras China has in public to watch them? Do they get that you can get arrested by looking at a website they label as subversive?

    They still want the device because it will do 5G. Great trade off!!
    I'll play;

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2019-03-06/problem-xis-china-model?utm_source=twitter_posts&utm_campaign=tw_daily_soc&utm_medium=social

    "Under Xi’s leadership, the party now has eyes everywhere—literally. As many as 200 million surveillance cameras have already been installed in an effort to reduce crime and control social unrest. The surveillance technology will also play an essential role in the 2020 national rollout of the country’s social credit system, which will evaluate people’s political and economic trustworthiness and reward and punish them accordingly. The CCP has now established party committees within nearly 70 percentof all private enterprises and joint ventures, in order to ensure that the businesses advance the interests of the state. Beijing has also succeeded in constraining outside influences: thanks to a law passed two years ago, for example, the number of foreign nongovernmental organizations operating in China has fallen from more than 7,000to just over 400. And “Made in China 2025”—China’s plan to protect its domestic firms from foreign competition in ten areas of critical cutting-edge technology—is well under way. The Sichuan provincial government, for example, has stipulated that for 15 types of medical devices, hospitals will be reimbursed only for procedures that use Chinese-manufactured devices."
    Huawei is has been very successful in the emerging nations selling their telecom systems at low prices, with subsidies, and even with financing, all with the blessings and support of the CCP. Western nations have not been as welcoming, citing issues of National Security.

    Coincidentally, those countries that have bans or attempted bans of Huawei telecom, are seeing unusual retaliation in the form of export contract cancellations, and export "friction", a sure sign the the Chinese Government has an interest in Huawei's success in the West. Likely as well, the two unlucky Canadian's picked up for "spying", are hostages in the extradition drama of Meng Wanzhou, Huawei CFO.

    yet more;

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-06/diplomatic-outbursts-mar-xi-s-plan-to-raise-china-on-world-stage
    Huawei has been very successful with western nations too, not only emerging nations.

    China sees Huawei as a national champion and I have no doubt that it takes some decisions based on how Huawei is treated by some countries. That is not a problem. The US has literally been threatening its allies for weeks over Huawei. There is a big difference between the two situations though.

    Does China want to see more success for Huawei in the west? Why wouldn't it?

    The US is currently negotiating with the UK on possible post Brexit agreements as it wants US companies to have more success in the UK. This is normal.

    Country to country, where politics underlies a large part of what goes on, is not the same as country to company. If you start singling out one particular company and take your case and attempt to impose it on other countries you are very likely to get into hot water both politically and legally. Especially if you have very little to back up your case in the first place.

    Remember, this is about protectionism, not security. At the MWC press conference that the US delegation held (yes, unbelievable but true) they were asked point blank to give a statement on that pesky detail of evidence. They didn't. This fact was echoed in the sunseqsubs articles in the press.
    edited March 7 dewmemuthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 14 of 122
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,174member
    While there’s a point to be made that this administration has some trouble understanding what is and isnt constitutional, I don’t think even the tainted Texas courts are going to give this the time of day. The threat from Huawei and the warnings about the stretch back to before 2016.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 122
    RhythmagicRhythmagic Posts: 35unconfirmed, member
    Almost everything the government does is wrong. They suck. Shut em down. 
  • Reply 16 of 122
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 360member
    Was it really SkyCOM or SkyNET?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 122
    mervynyan said:
    Kept Tim safe

    What does that even mean?
    Ah, you don't know what was implied!!! It is the same old story - Apple is DOOMED....because they are late to the 5G party. US government is trying to save Apple (in turn Tim Cook) from DOOM by blocking Huawei's 5G march. Or so the story goes. Not that I am convinced, but just FYI.
    correctionsAppleExposed
  • Reply 18 of 122
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,318member
    Huawei says it abides by all laws where it operates. Logically those same laws exist to be used in case of necessity by any company operating in the territory. From there on it it up to the courts to decide the outcome.

    Huawei is NOT China. It is a private company.

    I suggest we simply wait and see what comes of this.


    dewmemuthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 19 of 122
    correctionscorrections Posts: 1,246member
    avon b7 said:
    Huawei says it abides by all laws where it operates. Logically those same laws exist to be used in case of necessity by any company operating in the territory. From there on it it up to the courts to decide the outcome.

    Huawei is NOT China. It is a private company.

    I suggest we simply wait and see what comes of this.


    Everything you post here is total bullshit, but this really takes the cake.

    A company that so clearly committed fraud to hide its violation of Iran sanctions that the US government--and Canada--risked international blowback to prosecute those crimes is suddenly innocent because some AI troll account has stood on a soapbox and announced that "it says it obeys the laws!"

    Huawei is a project of Communist Party members. It's hard to see how one could extract this massive, barely profitable state enterprise from the PRC. It sure couldn't operate on its own. 

    It's also well known that China is gunning at owning technology markets and will spare no expense to dump products at a loss until it owns the global means of production. that's been evident since the 90s.  
    titantigerAppleExposedStrangeDayswatto_cobraapplesnoranges
  • Reply 20 of 122
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,318member
    It’s funny how many fandroids get very upset at the fact that they cannot buy Huawei devices here and scream that there is no proof about any allegations of espionage. 

    The simple fact that the CIA and the NSA issued the warning isn’t good enough for them. I get not trusting some parts of our govt, but when the part that spies on other countries warns the American people that there is a real risk, I think we should listen. 
    Especially when it’s all the heads of six intelligence agencies, operating in unison.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/14/17011246/huawei-phones-safe-us-intelligence-chief-fears

    The same agencies that said Russia meddled in the election and are no friends to the administration. Their findings were valid then, but now they aren’t — for the Chinese Cheer Squad, anyway. 

    Cognitive dissonance, much?


    It almost like a disease. People would risk having their info monitored by another country just to have a shiny new toy. 
    I don’t like the thought of my country tracking me, but the thought of another country tracking me creeps me out. 

    Has anyone seen how many cameras China has in public to watch them? Do they get that you can get arrested by looking at a website they label as subversive?

    They still want the device because it will do 5G. Great trade off!!
    A disease? 

    Risks exist everywhere - even today. Just ask all those countries who have detected attempts by the US to get into their networks.

    Most security experts agree that 5G should evolve into something more secure than 4G. It will be more pervasive but far more scrutiny, development and planning at an industry level is taking place than it ever did for LTE.

    Proposals for an industry wide security certification protocol are also being looked at.

    However, just like today with computer software, there will be bugs, human error etc. Governments - of all flavours - will continue to try and find a way in through any crack they find. There is nothing new here except maybe for what Huawei stated (half in jest and half seriously): Using Huawei gear makes it harder for the NSA.

    If you, personally, get the creeps when some foreign government (in your opinion, ar least) tries to get at your data, you should also be able to understand that other people feel the same way in their countries when it comes to the NSA (which creeps you out, but less).

    You should also understand why other countries resent being threatened on what to do with regards to their handling of 5G by the US. It is overreaching its power and this is seen as abuse. By extension you should also understand why Huawei is defending itself. 

    Here is a decent summary of the current situation:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/07/huawei-sues-the-u-s-but-this-is-not-about-the-u-s/#30fc18f870e8

    It is not about shiny new toys. People understand the risks. The risks have always existed but from risk to reality there can be quite a gap and without evidence, everything rings shallow. The US doesn't have a very good record here.
    edited March 7 muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
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