Apple & Qualcomm claim to be backbones of 5G as US ITC ruling nears

Posted:
in iPhone
Both Apple and Qualcomm are insisting that their victory in a U.S. International Trade Commission ruling, due Tuesday, will be essential to the future of 5G in the country.

iPhone X in Apple Store


"Without current 4G sales to Apple, Intel lacks a viable path forward to compete for coming 5G baseband chipset sales," Apple argued in a recent statement to the ITC, seen by Bloomberg. "Intel is now the only U.S. baseband chipset manufacturer still standing in the face of Qualcomm's anticompetitive practices."

In 2017 Qualcomm launched an petition for an iPhone import ban, complaining that Apple had violated some 16 patents through its use of Intel modems. The ITC eventually found Apple in infringement of one of the patents, but declined to impose a ban -- that prompted a call from Qualcomm for a review, the matter which will be ruled on tomorrow.

In a statement of its own, Qualcomm countered Apple's stance by focusing on the global context.

"Qualcomm is the global leader in 5G development and standard-setting, with Huawei being a close second," the chipmaker said. "Although Apple purports to urge the Commission to keep a second runner in a two-man race, Apple is really urging the Commission to hobble the American leader in a field crowded with foreign entrants."

Huawei is believed to have close ties to the Chinese government, which has prompted U.S. and European resistance to adopting its 5G standards and infrastructure, given frequent cyberattacks launched from China. It's unclear to what extent China has been subject to Western attacks.

Apple has said that it can get around any alleged patent infringement with software workarounds, but Qualcomm noted that this might actually undermine its case, since it means Apple could have easily avoided infringement and any risk to iPhone imports.

Once Apple's exclusive modem supplier, Qualcomm has been largely pushed to the sidelines because of a global legal battle between the pair over patents and royalties. The fight kicked off in January 2017, when Apple sued over nearly $1 billion in rebates it said were withheld as retaliation for cooperation with antitrust investigators. Private lawsuits are ongoing around the world, and various government bodies have pursued their own cases, sometimes leveling millions of dollars in fines. A trial brought by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, with Apple's help, concluded in January though a ruling has yet to be announced.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 9
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,007member
    Qualcomm says it's the global leader in 5G development and was the only CDMA developer. Both will end up being standards so why should Qualcomm be able to force high patent payments on standard's patents? It's like having only one gasoline company while forcing all vehicles to only use gas. (This is practically what's happening right now.) The patents in question aren't that big of a deal and definitely aren't worth the type of cost customers end up paying.

    It's also the other, non-modem-related patents that Qualcomm is going after with that really make me mad. As everyone is saying, let's have some patent reform. Pay the real designers the money and stop allowing patent trolls to keep extorting money for little things that really don't mean much. If they did, the original patent author would still have an actual product.


  • Reply 2 of 9
    prokipprokip Posts: 145member
    How do you define a greedy a***hole?
  • Reply 3 of 9
    QormicQormic Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    Perspective; a sophist’s sit com.
  • Reply 4 of 9
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 890member
    rob53 said:
    Qualcomm says it's the global leader in 5G development and was the only CDMA developer. Both will end up being standards so why should Qualcomm be able to force high patent payments on standard's patents? It's like having only one gasoline company while forcing all vehicles to only use gas. (This is practically what's happening right now.) The patents in question aren't that big of a deal and definitely aren't worth the type of cost customers end up paying.

    It's also the other, non-modem-related patents that Qualcomm is going after with that really make me mad. As everyone is saying, let's have some patent reform. Pay the real designers the money and stop allowing patent trolls to keep extorting money for little things that really don't mean much. If they did, the original patent author would still have an actual product.


    The other part to this is that if they are allowed to continue to own patents to a standard and charge whatever they want for license they maintain a monopoly. This is in an industry where their chip makes up a small part of the total device  or even of its function. At the same time other companies are spending trillions to buildout networks and infrastructure to support the standard. 
    jony0
  • Reply 5 of 9
    That’s an interesting legal approach...

    Qualcomm: We only have a US monopoly, and we need a global monopoly (which Apple is interfering with) otherwise a foreign company might have that global monopoly in the future.

    Judge, are you Pro Business?  Pro USA? Or, a commie stooge?

    Apple’s rebuttal:  Wait? What?  How does that even make sense?  We need more competition not less...
  • Reply 6 of 9
    croprcropr Posts: 914member
    genovelle said:
    rob53 said:
    Qualcomm says it's the global leader in 5G development and was the only CDMA developer. Both will end up being standards so why should Qualcomm be able to force high patent payments on standard's patents? It's like having only one gasoline company while forcing all vehicles to only use gas. (This is practically what's happening right now.) The patents in question aren't that big of a deal and definitely aren't worth the type of cost customers end up paying.

    It's also the other, non-modem-related patents that Qualcomm is going after with that really make me mad. As everyone is saying, let's have some patent reform. Pay the real designers the money and stop allowing patent trolls to keep extorting money for little things that really don't mean much. If they did, the original patent author would still have an actual product.


    The other part to this is that if they are allowed to continue to own patents to a standard and charge whatever they want for license they maintain a monopoly. This is in an industry where their chip makes up a small part of the total device  or even of its function. At the same time other companies are spending trillions to buildout networks and infrastructure to support the standard.
    The world is full of patent encumbered standards: the codec H.264 is a well known example and in this case Apple is one of the patent owners.

    Qualcomm does not have a monopoly.  Other vendors like Huawei, Samsung, Ericsson, Nokia, ....   have a lot of 4G and 5G related patents, which they use to trade with Qualcomm to come to a reasonable price.   And that is the issue for Apple.  Apple has virtual no patents in the telecom technology and has no bargaining power with Qualcomm, so Apple pays a very high price.   Whether this is high price is justified or not is up to the courts to decide
  • Reply 7 of 9
    cropr said:
    genovelle said:
    rob53 said:
    Qualcomm says it's the global leader in 5G development and was the only CDMA developer. Both will end up being standards so why should Qualcomm be able to force high patent payments on standard's patents? It's like having only one gasoline company while forcing all vehicles to only use gas. (This is practically what's happening right now.) The patents in question aren't that big of a deal and definitely aren't worth the type of cost customers end up paying.

    It's also the other, non-modem-related patents that Qualcomm is going after with that really make me mad. As everyone is saying, let's have some patent reform. Pay the real designers the money and stop allowing patent trolls to keep extorting money for little things that really don't mean much. If they did, the original patent author would still have an actual product.


    The other part to this is that if they are allowed to continue to own patents to a standard and charge whatever they want for license they maintain a monopoly. This is in an industry where their chip makes up a small part of the total device  or even of its function. At the same time other companies are spending trillions to buildout networks and infrastructure to support the standard.
    The world is full of patent encumbered standards: the codec H.264 is a well known example and in this case Apple is one of the patent owners.

    Qualcomm does not have a monopoly.  Other vendors like Huawei, Samsung, Ericsson, Nokia, ....   have a lot of 4G and 5G related patents, which they use to trade with Qualcomm to come to a reasonable price.   And that is the issue for Apple.  Apple has virtual no patents in the telecom technology and has no bargaining power with Qualcomm, so Apple pays a very high price.   Whether this is high price is justified or not is up to the courts to decide
    Getting paid for their patents (or patent sharing) isn’t going to make them players in 5G.  Cisco is a player though in infrastructure.

    Huawei is in a good position, because they’ll be aggressive on pricing...

    Apple just wants a cheep 5G modem, and Qualcomm has already killed off the competition.
  • Reply 8 of 9
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,286member
    Hoping that the US ITC understands that competition is especially vital in emerging technologies, even when that gets messy (remember the 56K standards, and the many format wars before or since?). Standards should emerge over time, not be forced through monopoly.
  • Reply 9 of 9
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,181member
    Trump needs to end his war on Huawei.   Qualcomm would come begging.   But now Trump is effectively handing these crooks a monopoly. 

    We see how unregulated government protected monopolies work in the drug industry.   We don't need one in 5G.
Sign In or Register to comment.