This should be a surprise to no one. The days of charging obscene prices for smartphones is are over. Apple, Samsung, and the rest of the smartphone manufacturers needs to bring prices down A LOT. Augmented reality and other new technologies are important to have, and they should stay, but it really does not cost as much to add to these new features to phones as the companies make it seem. They are over inflating their prices in order to fleece their customers out of more and more money, and the customers are beginning to push back against those price hikes now.
The biggest reason that I upgraded my phone this year was because Apple gave me a trade-in credit for my previous phone. If I had not gotten the trade-in, it may not have made much sense to get a new phone. The prices are simply ridiculous. I hope I can keep this one for several years, longer than the 3 years I had my previous phone. I really want to see the prices of the iPhones that are coming out in the Fall, if they are any more expensive than last year's models, then Apple will have another terrible holiday quarter and beyond.
The days of charging obscene prices for smartphones is are over.
What's obscene? Everybody's value proposition is different. If I keep my iPhone X ($1,000) for three years, that breaks down to less than a dollar a day. Personally, I'm OK with that.
smartphone manufacturers needs to bring prices down A LOT.
Nobody needs to do anything. You buy what you want and spend what you want. There is a phone for every budget. What you want is a premium device at bargain basement prices. Doesn't work like that.
but it really does not cost as much to add to these new features to phones as the companies make it seem.
You're basing this on what? Your extensive experience with premium electronic components. You should start your own company and deliver what you're preaching.
The biggest reason that I upgraded my phone this year was because Apple gave me a trade-in credit for my previous phone.
Trade-ins have been around forever and have always helped lower the cost somewhat, be it phones, cars or anything in between.
Nailed it. I love it when people whining about things costing more than they wished they did suggest it’s all a scam. Yet cannot explain why someone doesn’t eat Apple’s lunch, or why they don’t start their business to do it.
Smartphones are now a mature product and the days of huge leaps of capability worth paying for are gone.
It is time for prices to come down- way down.
Countless millions of us want a high-performance iPhone but do not give a whit about AR and do not play games on them. We do not want a degraded screen or CPU, but do not really care about the camera beyond FaceTime. What would really be nice is an iPhone with a shelf life of more than 2 years that allowed owners to buy and put in a new battery ourselves without taking the thing apart.
What's "worth paying for" is subjective, and the 1.4 billion people who purchased a new smartphone last year clearly disagree. And yes, that number is correct. 19% of the Earth's population purchased a new smartphone last year.
What was the average price if you don't mind me asking?
That would go towards answering the "worth paying for" question. If the prices have been falling as I suspect then the overwhelming majority of those 1.4 billion purchasers don't believe it requires a $700+ purchase, and overall smartphones are getting better features and hardware while costing consumers less, and drawing more folks into the market.
I think expensive smartphones are the exception. The market itself is becoming commoditized, much like HDTV's. They're all decently good.
And iPhones are better, which is why the iPhone ASP has gone up while your knockoffs have gone down. As we saw in PCs, where people said the same thing decades ago, the commoditization hurts the also-rans while leaving Apple to suck up the high-end.
Is volume rising on iPhones? Not as far as I know. They may be recycling current Apple users rather than attracting new ones to the platform since folks like you would be the type most willing to accept new iPhone prices as the cost of being one. Would you agree?
You mean the forum experts were wrong when they claimed soft sales at Apple were due to Tim Cook being greedy and lack of innovation? Shocking, just shocking!
It looks like Samsung is blaming the revenue warnings on lack of demand and softening prices on components, ie displays, memory, CPU's and the like, more so than on their branded smartphone sales tho no doubt that's also a factor.
Where did they detail the disappointing revenue split on components vs smartphone sales?
You could read the advisory and see for yourself what they said rather than me interpreting it for you.
I would agree that you just moved the goalposts from ASP to volume, which was not being discussed. Nice job. Like I said, the commoditization harms your knockoffs, not the premium market where the ASP of iPhones continues to rise.
As for the second, nope it doesn’t work that way. The person making the claim must back up his assertion with data. You asserted that Samsung’s disappointing sales will be more component than product. Cool claim, back it up.
Smartphones are now a mature product and the days of huge leaps of capability worth paying for are gone.
It is time for prices to come down- way down.
Countless millions of us want a high-performance iPhone but do not give a whit about AR and do not play games on them. We do not want a degraded screen or CPU, but do not really care about the camera beyond FaceTime. What would really be nice is an iPhone with a shelf life of more than 2 years that allowed owners to buy and put in a new battery ourselves without taking the thing apart.
What's "worth paying for" is subjective, and the 1.4 billion people who purchased a new smartphone last year clearly disagree. And yes, that number is correct. 19% of the Earth's population purchased a new smartphone last year.
What was the average price if you don't mind me asking?
That would go towards answering the "worth paying for" question. If the prices have been falling as I suspect then the overwhelming majority of those 1.4 billion purchasers don't believe it requires a $700+ purchase, and overall smartphones are getting better features and hardware while costing consumers less, and drawing more folks into the market.
I think expensive smartphones are the exception. The market itself is becoming commoditized, much like HDTV's. They're all decently good.
And iPhones are better, which is why the iPhone ASP has gone up while your knockoffs have gone down. As we saw in PCs, where people said the same thing decades ago, the commoditization hurts the also-rans while leaving Apple to suck up the high-end.
Is volume rising on iPhones? Not as far as I know. They may be recycling current Apple users rather than attracting new ones to the platform since folks like you would be the type most willing to accept new iPhone prices as the cost of being one. Would you agree?
You mean the forum experts were wrong when they claimed soft sales at Apple were due to Tim Cook being greedy and lack of innovation? Shocking, just shocking!
It looks like Samsung is blaming the revenue warnings on lack of demand and softening prices on components, ie displays, memory, CPU's and the like, more so than on their branded smartphone sales tho no doubt that's also a factor.
Where did they detail the disappointing revenue split on components vs smartphone sales?
You could read the advisory and see for yourself what they said rather than me interpreting it for you.
As for the second, nope it doesn’t work that way. The person making the claim must back up his assertion with data. You asserted that Samsung’s disappointing sales will be more component than product. Cool claim, back it up.
So two things: You need to learn the difference between opinion and claim (fact) then. Go back and read the post you're finding so egregious, and then read it again if you need to. Come back and tell me which it is.
and 2: Literally the very first paragraph of the source article: "Samsung Electronics warned on Tuesday that it would report disappointing financial results thanks to slumping prices for chips and LCD screens, in another sign of slowing demand for smartphones and other gadgets."
What do you think Samsung is stating as the primary reason for the earnings warning?
EDIT: Figured as much, you don't typically admit to ever being mistaken.
Apple makes less and Samsung loses money? I could live with that.
I agree enthusiastically. In fact, Apple's financial cushions are so deep I'm actually hoping for a worldwide recession, specifically for Apple's sake. Well, I'm not really hoping for a recession, but I realize how good it would be for Apple vis-a-vis its competitors.
This should be a surprise to no one. The days of charging obscene prices for smartphones is are over. Apple, Samsung, and the rest of the smartphone manufacturers needs to bring prices down A LOT. Augmented reality and other new technologies are important to have, and they should stay, but it really does not cost as much to add to these new features to phones as the companies make it seem. They are over inflating their prices in order to fleece their customers out of more and more money, and the customers are beginning to push back against those price hikes now.
The biggest reason that I upgraded my phone this year was because Apple gave me a trade-in credit for my previous phone. If I had not gotten the trade-in, it may not have made much sense to get a new phone. The prices are simply ridiculous. I hope I can keep this one for several years, longer than the 3 years I had my previous phone. I really want to see the prices of the iPhones that are coming out in the Fall, if they are any more expensive than last year's models, then Apple will have another terrible holiday quarter and beyond.
The days of charging obscene prices for smartphones is are over.
What's obscene? Everybody's value proposition is different. If I keep my iPhone X ($1,000) for three years, that breaks down to less than a dollar a day. Personally, I'm OK with that.
smartphone manufacturers needs to bring prices down A LOT.
Nobody needs to do anything. You buy what you want and spend what you want. There is a phone for every budget. What you want is a premium device at bargain basement prices. Doesn't work like that.
but it really does not cost as much to add to these new features to phones as the companies make it seem.
You're basing this on what? Your extensive experience with premium electronic components. You should start your own company and deliver what you're preaching.
The biggest reason that I upgraded my phone this year was because Apple gave me a trade-in credit for my previous phone.
Trade-ins have been around forever and have always helped lower the cost somewhat, be it phones, cars or anything in between.
Nailed it. I love it when people whining about things costing more than they wished they did suggest it’s all a scam. Yet cannot explain why someone doesn’t eat Apple’s lunch, or why they don’t start their business to do it.
In handsets do you think Apple's lunch isn't being eaten already? Enough for Apple to take an earnings hit.
And to top things off, the P30 Series was released today with just about every slide compared to the XS Max and S10 series.
It made for gruesome viewing for both Samsung and Apple.
Now, everything needs to be backed up in the real world but it doesn't look like iPhone is going to get through 2019 without some seriously ruffled feathers.
Even on the outside, some of the new gradients are simply stunning.
Your argument is both interesting and compelling, and I'm glad you made it. But I don't care what a camera can do if it's designed AND manufactured by a company with deep ties to the army of a country that has ICBMs aimed at me. I wouldn't use that camera if it was free. If you threatened my life, then I would use it.
Your argument is both interesting and compelling, and I'm glad you made it. But I don't care what a camera can do if it's designed AND manufactured by a company with deep ties to the army of a country that has ICBMs aimed at me. I wouldn't use that camera if it was free. If you threatened my life, then I would use it.
Yes, it's an individual thing and you aren't alone but if the Reuters/Counterpoint information is even slightly correct, Apple may be seeing a large chunk bitten out of its premium share.
If, on top of that, these new phones live up to the hype, even more users may be tempted to opt for them.
Right now, we only have slides from the presentation but anyone sitting on the fence, and not sharing your viewpoint of course, could be easily swayed to drop the money on the new release:
Yes, it's an individual thing and you aren't alone ... Right now, we only have slides from the presentation but anyone sitting on the fence, and not sharing your viewpoint of course, could be easily swayed ...
It's a pleasure being in a chat with you. You were very polite, I think you are even more polite than myself. There were several ways you could have argued with me, and I was prepared to defend myself, but we're getting along so well here.
Twenty years ago it was Apple who compared raw specs to its competitors (like CPU speed) as its benefit. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and Apple's competitors are touting individual features (like optical zoom) rather than the big overall picture. That won't work. Let me explain why.
Some people think of Google as Apple's competitor, and in terms of software, that's true. And some people think of Huawei as Apple's competitor, and in terms of hardware, that's true. But those are technical features. Instead, I think Apple's biggest competitor is a company that has the big picture (pun intended) in mind, and that's Disney. Disney's market value is about $200 billion, a fifth of Apple's, but I see them as the biggest threat to Apple over the next ten years. They have as much public mindshare as Apple, probably more. Disney and their 200 media company juggernaut are miles ahead of Apple in terms of media content. Sure, Apple has the lead in music and magazines, but that's a pipsqueakian lead. Disney has a 20 mile lead in TV, movies, sports, theme parks, and more. https://storage.googleapis.com/titlemax-media/every-company-disney-owns-13_pageversion.jpg Disney owns so much it's easier to make a list of what Disney DOESN'T own: (1) Universal Studios (which also owns Dreamworks); (2) Time Warner (which owns HBO, Warner Bros, The CW, DC Comics, AOL); and (3) Studio Ghibli. That's the complete list of what media companies Disney does NOT own. Disney and Apple are currently cooperating, even with overlapping board of director members, due to overlapping shareholders, but that could change. Steve Jobs "went nuclear" with Google after Google started up Android. What might happen if Disney built a competing device to Apple TV, or bought Sony Music and built its own exclusive equivalent to Apple Music, or built an ecosystem to compete with Apple? I'm not sure if Disney is up to those challenges, but it could happen. Did you know Disney owns GoPro? Perhaps Disney could ask GoPro to make a smart phone, and give them a $3 billion check to make it happen. We've got an interesting decade ahead.
1. Samsung also warned on profits last quarter, because it's getting eaten alive in key territories by cheaper knockoff makers (particularly in China and India) or companies with vastly better products (like Apple in most first-world markets).
2. That said, Samsung sells tonnes of crap-phones and mid-range junkphones, so it's overall units are probably similar to Apple's total units ... but clearly they don't make any money on those, and indeed it doesn't seem like they make much if any money on their flagships, because ...
3. As noted in another story on AI, the vaunted Ming-Chi predicts the entire S10 family is going to move 45 million units across this entire year. For reference, that's less than one quarter of iPhone sales, or about six weeks of iPhone + iPad combined sales.
4. Conclusion: Samsung's components business is the profit anchor of their entire presence in mobile/tech. When it goes south, they warn investors.
Comments
Nailed it. I love it when people whining about things costing more than they wished they did suggest it’s all a scam. Yet cannot explain why someone doesn’t eat Apple’s lunch, or why they don’t start their business to do it.
As for the second, nope it doesn’t work that way. The person making the claim must back up his assertion with data. You asserted that Samsung’s disappointing sales will be more component than product. Cool claim, back it up.
and 2: Literally the very first paragraph of the source article:
"Samsung Electronics warned on Tuesday that it would report disappointing financial results thanks to slumping prices for chips and LCD screens, in another sign of slowing demand for smartphones and other gadgets."
What do you think Samsung is stating as the primary reason for the earnings warning?
EDIT: Figured as much, you don't typically admit to ever being mistaken.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-tech-smartphones-analysis/chinese-smartphone-firms-jazz-up-products-seize-turf-in-home-market-from-apple-idUSKCN1R30CS
And to top things off, the P30 Series was released today with just about every slide compared to the XS Max and S10 series.
It made for gruesome viewing for both Samsung and Apple.
Now, everything needs to be backed up in the real world but it doesn't look like iPhone is going to get through 2019 without some seriously ruffled feathers.
Even on the outside, some of the new gradients are simply stunning.
And that zoom ...
If, on top of that, these new phones live up to the hype, even more users may be tempted to opt for them.
Right now, we only have slides from the presentation but anyone sitting on the fence, and not sharing your viewpoint of course, could be easily swayed to drop the money on the new release:
https://petapixel.com/2019/03/26/huawei-p30-pro-is-an-iso-409600-low-light-monster/
Twenty years ago it was Apple who compared raw specs to its competitors (like CPU speed) as its benefit. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and Apple's competitors are touting individual features (like optical zoom) rather than the big overall picture. That won't work. Let me explain why.
Some people think of Google as Apple's competitor, and in terms of software, that's true. And some people think of Huawei as Apple's competitor, and in terms of hardware, that's true. But those are technical features. Instead, I think Apple's biggest competitor is a company that has the big picture (pun intended) in mind, and that's Disney. Disney's market value is about $200 billion, a fifth of Apple's, but I see them as the biggest threat to Apple over the next ten years. They have as much public mindshare as Apple, probably more. Disney and their 200 media company juggernaut are miles ahead of Apple in terms of media content. Sure, Apple has the lead in music and magazines, but that's a pipsqueakian lead. Disney has a 20 mile lead in TV, movies, sports, theme parks, and more. https://storage.googleapis.com/titlemax-media/every-company-disney-owns-13_pageversion.jpg Disney owns so much it's easier to make a list of what Disney DOESN'T own: (1) Universal Studios (which also owns Dreamworks); (2) Time Warner (which owns HBO, Warner Bros, The CW, DC Comics, AOL); and (3) Studio Ghibli. That's the complete list of what media companies Disney does NOT own. Disney and Apple are currently cooperating, even with overlapping board of director members, due to overlapping shareholders, but that could change. Steve Jobs "went nuclear" with Google after Google started up Android. What might happen if Disney built a competing device to Apple TV, or bought Sony Music and built its own exclusive equivalent to Apple Music, or built an ecosystem to compete with Apple? I'm not sure if Disney is up to those challenges, but it could happen. Did you know Disney owns GoPro? Perhaps Disney could ask GoPro to make a smart phone, and give them a $3 billion check to make it happen. We've got an interesting decade ahead.
2. That said, Samsung sells tonnes of crap-phones and mid-range junkphones, so it's overall units are probably similar to Apple's total units ... but clearly they don't make any money on those, and indeed it doesn't seem like they make much if any money on their flagships, because ...
3. As noted in another story on AI, the vaunted Ming-Chi predicts the entire S10 family is going to move 45 million units across this entire year. For reference, that's less than one quarter of iPhone sales, or about six weeks of iPhone + iPad combined sales.
4. Conclusion: Samsung's components business is the profit anchor of their entire presence in mobile/tech. When it goes south, they warn investors.