Apple Pay comes to Singapore transit, New York City piloting in spring

Posted:
in iPhone edited April 4
Apple Pay is now available to public transit riders in Singapore, and will begin a pilot program with New York City's MTA later this spring.

Via Pratik Patel on Twitter
Via Pratik Patel on Twitter


In Singapore, Apple Pay works on any transit method supporting Mastercard. Visa compatibility should come in the second half of 2019, TransitLink said.

The New York City pilot will initially be limited to a couple of lines, expanding throughout the rest of the year, according to TechCrunch. Some subway riders are already seeing "coming soon" messages for wireless payments at subway turnstiles.

In Chicago and Portland, where Apple Pay is already accepted for transit, people will soon be able to add preloaded Ventra and Hop cards to the iOS Wallet app. The change was reported by the Chicago Tribune and Willamette Week -- a blog, Ata Distance, further suggested that both cards will support Express Transit, optionally bypassing the need to use Touch ID, Face ID, or a passcode. The Chicago and Portand additions were first spotted by MacRumors.

That technology has so far been limited to transit networks in China and Japan. A similar Express feature is available for iOS student cards at universities like Duke and Johns Hopkins.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    gutengelgutengel Posts: 255member
    So how does Apple Wallet works with other transit around the world? It seems gimmicky to install a virtual card that won't work if your phone is dead. I don't see the value over a regular NFC metro card. By the way, NYC is late to the NFC game 10 years...
  • Reply 2 of 17
    gutengel said:
    So how does Apple Wallet works with other transit around the world? It seems gimmicky to install a virtual card that won't work if your phone is dead. I don't see the value over a regular NFC metro card. By the way, NYC is late to the NFC game 10 years...
    No more gimmicky than adding a credit card or debit card to Wallet that also won't work if the phone is dead. Which, by the way, is a problem I have never run into.  Not to mention, not having to carry around yet another physical card is a positive.
    mike1JFC_PAlostkiwi
  • Reply 3 of 17
    matrix077matrix077 Posts: 627member
    gutengel said:
    So how does Apple Wallet works with other transit around the world? It seems gimmicky to install a virtual card that won't work if your phone is dead. I don't see the value over a regular NFC metro card. By the way, NYC is late to the NFC game 10 years...
    My Apple Watch has never been dead. Always 30-40% left at the end of the day. 
    mike1lostkiwi
  • Reply 4 of 17
    gutengelgutengel Posts: 255member
    gutengel said:
    So how does Apple Wallet works with other transit around the world? It seems gimmicky to install a virtual card that won't work if your phone is dead. I don't see the value over a regular NFC metro card. By the way, NYC is late to the NFC game 10 years...
    No more gimmicky than adding a credit card or debit card to Wallet that also won't work if the phone is dead. Which, by the way, is a problem I have never run into.  Not to mention, not having to carry around yet another physical card is a positive.
    Apple Pay is convenient and I love it. However, that's why I'm asking how it works on other cities. If I can have the physical and virtual card that would be awesome. But I don't think the MTA would want you to have 2 cloned unlimited cards. Also, FaceID is kinda slow for when you are trying to scan on peak hour and with the Apple watch you technically need 2 hands to activate the wallet, compare to quickly waving your wallet over the sensor with just one hand. In my mind the only convenience is not having to carry a physical card.
  • Reply 5 of 17
    mike1mike1 Posts: 1,871member
    I think I remember reading that Apple worked with one of the key card companies that they used for the new HQ and that they were able to activate the locks without actually opening the phone/watch. Just holding it up to the sensor would unlock the door. That would be useful in this case.
    lostkiwi
  • Reply 6 of 17
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,437member
    Of course NYC is late to the NFC game.   There are 468 subway stations.   Big stations can have multiple entrances each with their own set of turnstiles.   Some stations have a different set of turnstiles for each direction.   I'd say there's probably at least 5000 turnstiles in the subways alone (possibly much more).  And remember that the buses also have to collect fares using the same system (although many bus routes now have you buy a ticket from a machine before entering the bus).     So there's many thousands of buses or machines for that. 

    So it's a massive undertaking and very costly.    I have noticed some stations with a few newer turnstiles so they are starting to move to a new fare collection system, but it will take years to fully implement.   The current plan is to start to get it operational sometime this year, but they're not going to phase out the MetroCard until 2023.  The initial reported cost is $573 million!   Phase one will replace just 500 subway turnstiles and 600 bus collection boxes, so that's a drop more than one turnstile per station.   Seems to me the cost/benefit ratio is lousy.   The MetroCard is imperfect in that many people have problems swiping it, but just as many will have issues using ApplePay or an NFC card. 

    The other issue is that if you buy a MetroCard today, if you put $5.50 or more on the card, you get a 5% bonus.   If you use a credit card or I presume Apple Pay at the turnstile, you don't get the discount, but maybe this is part of a plan to get rid of that discount.     And from my experience using Apple Pay, it's going to be slower than swiping a MetroCard.   That could prove disastrous in NYC where on the subway alone, in 2017, there were 5.6 million rides per weekday and over 2.8 million average each weekend day.  

    And it's not just going to support ApplePay.  It's going to support Samsung Pay, Android Pay and credit/debit cards with NFC chips.  There are a lot of New Yorkers without bank accounts or without credit cards.   I think they're still going to have to have a MetroCard, but it will be NFC rather than a mag stripe.   The question is what are they going to do for single fares.   
  • Reply 7 of 17
    Eric_WVGGEric_WVGG Posts: 582member
    gutengel said:
    So how does Apple Wallet works with other transit around the world? It seems gimmicky to install a virtual card that won't work if your phone is dead. I don't see the value over a regular NFC metro card. By the way, NYC is late to the NFC game 10 years...
    "Metro cards and student IDs in your wallet work up to five hours after you lose charge"
     
    https://www.techradar.com/news/apples-iphone-xs-has-a-game-changing-nfc-feature-even-when-turned-off
    gutengellostkiwi
  • Reply 8 of 17
    Eric_WVGGEric_WVGG Posts: 582member

    gutengel said:
    gutengel said:
    So how does Apple Wallet works with other transit around the world? It seems gimmicky to install a virtual card that won't work if your phone is dead. I don't see the value over a regular NFC metro card. By the way, NYC is late to the NFC game 10 years...
    ...
    Apple Pay is convenient and I love it. However, that's why I'm asking how it works on other cities. If I can have the physical and virtual card that would be awesome. But I don't think the MTA would want you to have 2 cloned unlimited cards. Also, FaceID is kinda slow for when you are trying to scan on peak hour and with the Apple watch you technically need 2 hands to activate the wallet, compare to quickly waving your wallet over the sensor with just one hand. In my mind the only convenience is not having to carry a physical card.
    The terminals are networked. They read the NFC on your phone for a unique ID, look up on their database, and see "gutengel's got a valid 30 day pass, or he has 12 pre-paid fares left on his account, or whatever" and let you through.

    If you have multiple NFC devices (phone, watch, another phone or iPad or whatever) it's all moot because they have the same account ID. You don't need FaceID to to activate it, although I imagine there will be a flag to require it if you're paranoid.

    It is hugely convenient. Boston has had contactless transit for over ten years thanks to a chipped card you can put in your wallet. Tap your wallet on the terminal, walk through without talking. Believe me, you get used to it fast, carrying a physical card immediately feels very Flintstones.
    gutengellostkiwi
  • Reply 9 of 17
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    They’ve been doing in London. At some point, people have to modernize, whether they like it or not. There’s always the excuse that some people can’t afford something or other. But over time, amazingly enough, even they are doing it. I don’t think affordability is a real, long term issue. How many people don’t have cell phones today? How many don’t have smartphones? How many smartphones don’t have NFC?

    every new technology has been criticized as being too expensive for some, or too complicated for others. But nevertheless they take over. Costs come down, complexity is simplified. That’s the way of the world nowadays.

    i have problems with the Metrocard. Sometimes they don’t get read properly, and you’re standing there swiping away. It says to just swipe at that terminal, but you can’t, so you go to another one. Sometimes you lose the first fare because of that. If you don’t pay attention, the card, which is dated, for most card uses, runs out, and even with money on it, doesn’t work. So you have to get out of the line, when it’s busy, and go to a machine, which may have people on line, and which itself may not be working, or is only accepting cash, or some other nonsense. Then you have to go to the booth, at some point, with your bad, it outdated card, and see if they can convert it to a new card. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Many stations have no one in the booth.

    sometimes, though it’s been rare in recent years, some wise guy puts something into the slot so you can’t swipe.

    so anyone who tells you that this is going to be a bigger pain is full of it. I expect glitches in the beginning. This always happens. But after some time, it will settle in.
    tokyojimulostkiwi
  • Reply 10 of 17
    payecopayeco Posts: 296member
    gutengel said:
    So how does Apple Wallet works with other transit around the world? It seems gimmicky to install a virtual card that won't work if your phone is dead. I don't see the value over a regular NFC metro card. By the way, NYC is late to the NFC game 10 years...
    The XS and XR support, and presumably all future models, support NFC when the phone is turned off so if your battery dies you won’t lose access to your transit cards.

    https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/18/09/17/new-iphones-can-conduct-certain-nfc-transactions-even-when-ios-is-not-running
  • Reply 11 of 17
    Eric_WVGGEric_WVGG Posts: 582member
    melgross said:
    I don’t think affordability is a real, long term issue. How many people don’t have cell phones today? How many don’t have smartphones? How many smartphones don’t have NFC?
    It's a moot point anyway. Smartphones aren't a requirement of NFC, you can plant a chip in a plain old plastic card. Boston "Charlie cards" have had them forever. 

    https://www.3idcards.com/XceedID-13-56-MHz-MIFARE-ISO-Card-p/9558.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4LiQ3ou34QIVlojICh3N6Q2pEAQYASABEgKJm_D_BwE
    JFC_PA
  • Reply 12 of 17
    payecopayeco Posts: 296member
    zoetmb said:
    Of course NYC is late to the NFC game.   There are 468 subway stations.   Big stations can have multiple entrances each with their own set of turnstiles.   Some stations have a different set of turnstiles for each direction.   I'd say there's probably at least 5000 turnstiles in the subways alone (possibly much more).  And remember that the buses also have to collect fares using the same system (although many bus routes now have you buy a ticket from a machine before entering the bus).     So there's many thousands of buses or machines for that. 

    So it's a massive undertaking and very costly.    I have noticed some stations with a few newer turnstiles so they are starting to move to a new fare collection system, but it will take years to fully implement.   The current plan is to start to get it operational sometime this year, but they're not going to phase out the MetroCard until 2023.  The initial reported cost is $573 million!   Phase one will replace just 500 subway turnstiles and 600 bus collection boxes, so that's a drop more than one turnstile per station.   Seems to me the cost/benefit ratio is lousy.   The MetroCard is imperfect in that many people have problems swiping it, but just as many will have issues using ApplePay or an NFC card. 

    The other issue is that if you buy a MetroCard today, if you put $5.50 or more on the card, you get a 5% bonus.   If you use a credit card or I presume Apple Pay at the turnstile, you don't get the discount, but maybe this is part of a plan to get rid of that discount.     And from my experience using Apple Pay, it's going to be slower than swiping a MetroCard.   That could prove disastrous in NYC where on the subway alone, in 2017, there were 5.6 million rides per weekday and over 2.8 million average each weekend day.  

    And it's not just going to support ApplePay.  It's going to support Samsung Pay, Android Pay and credit/debit cards with NFC chips.  There are a lot of New Yorkers without bank accounts or without credit cards.   I think they're still going to have to have a MetroCard, but it will be NFC rather than a mag stripe.   The question is what are they going to do for single fares.   
    If using a MetroCard is faster than using Apple Pay you are doing something wrong when you’re using Apple Pay.

    Do you live in NYC? Have you been living under a rock? The MTA announced the MetroCard was being replaced with a new contactless system, which is what is making Apple Pay support possible in the first place, almost 3 years ago. The new cards/system will work on the LIRR and Metro-North as well.

    https://new.mta.info/system_modernization/omny

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMNY
    edited April 4 JFC_PA
  • Reply 13 of 17
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 352member
    When will this come to the San Francisco Bay Area? You would think being at the epicenter of tech we would already have such advances.
  • Reply 14 of 17
    tokyojimutokyojimu Posts: 414member
    JinTech said:
    When will this come to the San Francisco Bay Area? You would think being at the epicenter of tech we would already have such advances.
    The Bay Area is a mess of too many transit agencies that refuse to coöperate with each other. Good luck!
  • Reply 15 of 17
    JFC_PAJFC_PA Posts: 306member
    JinTech said:
    When will this come to the San Francisco Bay Area? You would think being at the epicenter of tech we would already have such advances.
    Too many competing small fiefdoms. 
  • Reply 16 of 17
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 352member
    tokyojimu said:
    JinTech said:
    When will this come to the San Francisco Bay Area? You would think being at the epicenter of tech we would already have such advances.
    The Bay Area is a mess of too many transit agencies that refuse to coöperate with each other. Good luck!
    JFC_PA said:
    JinTech said:
    When will this come to the San Francisco Bay Area? You would think being at the epicenter of tech we would already have such advances.
    Too many competing small fiefdoms. 
    Then how did they all come to agree on Clipper? It’s accepted on ALL Bay Area transit systems.
  • Reply 17 of 17
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    melgross said:
    I don’t think affordability is a real, long term issue. How many people don’t have cell phones today? How many don’t have smartphones? How many smartphones don’t have NFC?
    It's a moot point anyway. Smartphones aren't a requirement of NFC, you can plant a chip in a plain old plastic card. Boston "Charlie cards" have had them forever. 

    https://www.3idcards.com/XceedID-13-56-MHz-MIFARE-ISO-Card-p/9558.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4LiQ3ou34QIVlojICh3N6Q2pEAQYASABEgKJm_D_BwE
    It’s a most point because almost everyone has a smartphone.
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