How the Apple Card will assist in managing your finances

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 51
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,977member
    Soli said:
    eightzero said:
    I'm curious how I will connect my method of payment. Yes, a "pay now" button, and I think it ties to Apple Pay Cash, but there's no information about how to put money in that except for another credit card (with a fee) and a debit card (no fee) or the coming rewards program.  Surely you won't be able to pay the Apple Card with another credit card, and I do not have a debit card for my bank account (I never use it, and is thus an unneeded risk.) So I'm assuming there will be an panel to add ACH information to pay TO the Apple Pay Cash (like the existing option to move it FROM that.)
    1) It will not tie to Apple Pay Cash (APC). Apple has or will be removing the option to tie a credit card (CC) to APC—only a debit card will be allowed. If they allow you to use money within APC to make a payment to your Card, that would be a nice feature since you wouldn't have to input any routing and account data manually -and- you wouldn't have to wait the 1-3 business days for the ACH (the free option) to push monies back to your checking account before you make a payment toward your Card. I'm a bit skeptical of that setup because one is via Discover and the other is Goldman Sachs. While this may all like an Apple-to-Apple payment from the outside, it would involve something more complex setup on the backend which could incur higher costs that might not be feasible for any involved party.

    2) My guess is there will be a Goldman Sachs website, app, and possibly an option in the Wallet app portal for the Card in which to pay off your charges using a bank routing and account number. My reasoning for the 3rd option is because they will be offering all the details on how much you need to pay with the Wallet app portal for the Card to pay down your balance so having you do it via that portal for the card is more streamlined than pushing you out to another app, but that's just speculation on my part.
    Is it hard for you to write Apple instead of making the symbol?
    Thatisweirdcommenttomakeaboutaspecialunicodecharacternotfoundonatraditionalkeyboard.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 51
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,977member
    JWSC said:
    apple ][ said:

    fumi said:
    apple ][ said:
    fumi said:
    This card will not assist you in your finances, its purpose is to destroy your finances. 
    Only if somebody is dumb.
    People in the US hold over $1 trillion in credit card debt. That's a lot of dumb people.

    The average U.S. household now has $8,284 in credit card debt. Apple are now going to contribute to that. I don't know. Getting into the Debt business, It's just not a good look for them, IMO.
    Yes, I do agree that there are a lot of dumb people out there. Last I read an article on it, the average cc debt was around 6.5 k, but that has obviously gone up now, since you mentioned the $8,284 figure.

    Apple is not the bank, and there have been Apple cards before, I believe the previous one was a Barclays card.

    You’re certainly not the first to say that Apple is not a bank after this announcement.  But aren’t they?  The Vampire Squid (that’s Goldman Sachs for you nouveaus) is there for their financial expertise in aligning Apple’s capital with liquid credit markets and MasterCard is there for their transactional expertise and infrastructure.  But Apple’s cash could be a significant component of the Apple Card credit pool.

    Apple has been criticized in the past for not utilizing their vast cash hoard more effectively, although I give them kudos for using it to bolster suppler manufacturing capabilities and then locking in component orders to the detriment of the hapless competition.  But interest rates on bonds and treasuries doesn’t exactly yield stellar returns.  So it seems to me that getting into the credit card business is an opportunity to get a significantly better return on Apple’s cash hoard.

    We don't know how Apple's capital will be used for this service or if they will get with regulatory bodies as the primary financial institution. At this point I don't think that's happening, but I could see it further down the road.


    I'd certainly prefer to bank through Apple instead of my current bank (which will soon be my ex-bank, regardless of what Apple does).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 51
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,755member
    Soli said:
    JWSC said:
    apple ][ said:

    fumi said:
    apple ][ said:
    fumi said:
    This card will not assist you in your finances, its purpose is to destroy your finances. 
    Only if somebody is dumb.
    People in the US hold over $1 trillion in credit card debt. That's a lot of dumb people.

    The average U.S. household now has $8,284 in credit card debt. Apple are now going to contribute to that. I don't know. Getting into the Debt business, It's just not a good look for them, IMO.
    Yes, I do agree that there are a lot of dumb people out there. Last I read an article on it, the average cc debt was around 6.5 k, but that has obviously gone up now, since you mentioned the $8,284 figure.

    Apple is not the bank, and there have been Apple cards before, I believe the previous one was a Barclays card.

    You’re certainly not the first to say that Apple is not a bank after this announcement.  But aren’t they?  The Vampire Squid (that’s Goldman Sachs for you nouveaus) is there for their financial expertise in aligning Apple’s capital with liquid credit markets and MasterCard is there for their transactional expertise and infrastructure.  But Apple’s cash could be a significant component of the Apple Card credit pool.

    Apple has been criticized in the past for not utilizing their vast cash hoard more effectively, although I give them kudos for using it to bolster suppler manufacturing capabilities and then locking in component orders to the detriment of the hapless competition.  But interest rates on bonds and treasuries doesn’t exactly yield stellar returns.  So it seems to me that getting into the credit card business is an opportunity to get a significantly better return on Apple’s cash hoard.

    We don't know how Apple's capital will be used for this service or if they will get with regulatory bodies as the primary financial institution. At this point I don't think that's happening, but I could see it further down the road.


    I'd certainly prefer to bank through Apple instead of my current bank (which will soon be my ex-bank, regardless of what Apple does).
    This is the ultimate goal in a way but I wouldn't hold my breath on making your consumer deposits in an Apple Bank. Don't think that's going to happen.
    They're gradually making some inroads tho on a specialty version of banking, and not doing it alone. They have partners:
    https://financialinnovationnow.org/
    edited April 5
  • Reply 44 of 51
    For me, the AppleCard cannot replace Quicken.   At best it presents just a small piece of my financial pie.

    With Quicken I can tell you where every penny came from and went  to over the past 20+ years.  (not just credit card transactions)
    Reconciling an account is mostly the push of a button (well two:  one to download the transactions and one to reconcile the account).
    And, Quicken not only tells me my financial past -- but what the balance in my bank accounts will be in 3-4 weeks.
    And too, it maintains an accurate,detailed record of my investments and every transaction -- including splits, distributions, etc...

    I am hoping that Apple doesn't stop at a mere credit card -- but integrates that into a total banking/financial experience.  And provides the software to manage all of that at the detail level -- both past and future.

    Quicken can do that (and does it).  But it feels crude an medieval.  I think Apple could do better.  Much better.
    I agree to an extent.  Quicken is, however, pushing the subscription model.  While I currently have a locally installed copy of Quicken, at some point they'll stop supporting it, and probably even change the format of the downloads so that it's no longer as useful.  I will not allow a subscription app for something like this.

    I've complained about it every time they've asked for feedback, but I doubt it will have an effect.
    lostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 51
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,713member
    For me, the AppleCard cannot replace Quicken.   At best it presents just a small piece of my financial pie.

    With Quicken I can tell you where every penny came from and went  to over the past 20+ years.  (not just credit card transactions)
    Reconciling an account is mostly the push of a button (well two:  one to download the transactions and one to reconcile the account).
    And, Quicken not only tells me my financial past -- but what the balance in my bank accounts will be in 3-4 weeks.
    And too, it maintains an accurate,detailed record of my investments and every transaction -- including splits, distributions, etc...

    I am hoping that Apple doesn't stop at a mere credit card -- but integrates that into a total banking/financial experience.  And provides the software to manage all of that at the detail level -- both past and future.

    Quicken can do that (and does it).  But it feels crude an medieval.  I think Apple could do better.  Much better.
    I agree to an extent.  Quicken is, however, pushing the subscription model.  While I currently have a locally installed copy of Quicken, at some point they'll stop supporting it, and probably even change the format of the downloads so that it's no longer as useful.  I will not allow a subscription app for something like this.

    I've complained about it every time they've asked for feedback, but I doubt it will have an effect.
    They won't stop supporting the local copy feature in favor of a cloud based model if they are smart.   For many that is a primary feature of the product and one that differentiates it from its free or low-cost peers.

    The subscription model is giving me pause -- it effectively raises the price substantially.   It's not as bad when you take advantage of their 40% off offers.   But then it goes to automatic renewal at full price.  Hopefully the extra revenue from the subscription dissuades them from going to a strictly cloud based model.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 51
    I agree to an extent.  Quicken is, however, pushing the subscription model.  While I currently have a locally installed copy of Quicken, at some point they'll stop supporting it, and probably even change the format of the downloads so that it's no longer as useful.  I will not allow a subscription app for something like this.

    I've complained about it every time they've asked for feedback, but I doubt it will have an effect.
    They won't stop supporting the local copy feature in favor of a cloud based model if they are smart.   For many that is a primary feature of the product and one that differentiates it from its free or low-cost peers.

    The subscription model is giving me pause -- it effectively raises the price substantially.   It's not as bad when you take advantage of their 40% off offers.   But then it goes to automatic renewal at full price.  Hopefully the extra revenue from the subscription dissuades them from going to a strictly cloud based model.
    I'm not a sanguine as you are about their continued support of the stand-alone version.  It's no longer Intuit (or at least not the original Intuit) that owns the product, and even they were talking up the subscription model.

    If Quicken goes to a cloud based thing, like Quickbooks, there's no way I'll continue using it; I'll be busting out my old Clipper checkbook source and porting it to C# or something. :)  No stinking way at all that my financial data is going to depend on someone else for safety and security.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 51
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,755member
    I agree to an extent.  Quicken is, however, pushing the subscription model.  While I currently have a locally installed copy of Quicken, at some point they'll stop supporting it, and probably even change the format of the downloads so that it's no longer as useful.  I will not allow a subscription app for something like this.

    I've complained about it every time they've asked for feedback, but I doubt it will have an effect.
    They won't stop supporting the local copy feature in favor of a cloud based model if they are smart.   For many that is a primary feature of the product and one that differentiates it from its free or low-cost peers.

    The subscription model is giving me pause -- it effectively raises the price substantially.   It's not as bad when you take advantage of their 40% off offers.   But then it goes to automatic renewal at full price.  Hopefully the extra revenue from the subscription dissuades them from going to a strictly cloud based model.
     No stinking way at all that my financial data is going to depend on someone else for safety and security.
    Credit bureaus.... Does the name Experion ring a bell? 
    edited April 5 Soli
  • Reply 48 of 51
    I agree to an extent.  Quicken is, however, pushing the subscription model.  While I currently have a locally installed copy of Quicken, at some point they'll stop supporting it, and probably even change the format of the downloads so that it's no longer as useful.  I will not allow a subscription app for something like this.

    I've complained about it every time they've asked for feedback, but I doubt it will have an effect.
    They won't stop supporting the local copy feature in favor of a cloud based model if they are smart.   For many that is a primary feature of the product and one that differentiates it from its free or low-cost peers.

    The subscription model is giving me pause -- it effectively raises the price substantially.   It's not as bad when you take advantage of their 40% off offers.   But then it goes to automatic renewal at full price.  Hopefully the extra revenue from the subscription dissuades them from going to a strictly cloud based model.
    I'm not a sanguine as you are about their continued support of the stand-alone version.  It's no longer Intuit (or at least not the original Intuit) that owns the product, and even they were talking up the subscription model.

    If Quicken goes to a cloud based thing, like Quickbooks, there's no way I'll continue using it; I'll be busting out my old Clipper checkbook source and porting it to C# or something. :)  No stinking way at all that my financial data is going to depend on someone else for safety and security.
    After the fiasco with iBank/Banktivity and their "Upgrade for $35/Family Sharing*" plan, I went back to Excel for my reconciliation, same as PC-Calc did back in the 1980's.

    *You have to upgrade each AppleID in your Family Sharing, so it's not really 'Family Sharing' now is it?  I think Microsoft is doing the same thing with Office Apps.  I can install Office on 5 PC's with Office365 on my Microsoft ID, but to do it in the App store, it's $10/month for each Apple ID.
  • Reply 49 of 51
    gatorguy said:
     No stinking way at all that my financial data is going to depend on someone else for safety and security.
    Credit bureaus.... Does the name Experion ring a bell? 
    All of "my financial data". The credit bureaus don't have the details of every single single credit or debit card transaction, account transfer, loan payment or check I write.  Nor do they have the details of my investments, my 401k, or any of the myriad other things I have recorded in Quicken.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 51
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,755member
    gatorguy said:
     No stinking way at all that my financial data is going to depend on someone else for safety and security.
    Credit bureaus.... Does the name Experion ring a bell? 
    All of "my financial data". The credit bureaus don't have the details of every single single credit or debit card transaction, account transfer, loan payment or check I write.  Nor do they have the details of my investments, my 401k, or any of the myriad other things I have recorded in Quicken.
    I doubt you have any idea how much the credit bureaus have pertaining to you and your finances. They not only gets reports from lenders they also buy/acquire other data to use in accordance with it. Have a look at the data they make available for sale and you'll quickly realize they know far more about you than you'd have any inkling of unless you research it. 

    Here's some of the subsidiaries of Experian alone and the types of data they make available. It not just what the credit card company told em. 

    EXPERIAN DATA CORP.

    A sibling of the giant U.S. credit reporting agency Experian Information Solutions and one of many subsidiaries of the Ireland-based data giant Experian PLC, the company operates Experian RentBureau, a database updated daily with millions of consumers’ “rental payment history data from property owners/managers, electronic rent payment services and collection companies.”

    EXPERIAN FRAUD PREVENTION SOLUTIONS INC.

    An Experian unit providing a database focusing on fraudulent transactions.

    EXPERIAN HEALTH INC.

    The healthcare division of the credit reporting agency, providing data and analytics for healthcare providers, labs, pharmacies, payers, and other risk-bearing entities.

    EXPERIAN INFORMATION SOLUTIONS INC.

    One of the “big three” credit reporting agencies, Experian also sells data analytics and marketing services, and purports to aggregate information on over one billion people and businesses, including 235 million individual U.S. consumers.

    EXPERIAN MARKETING SOLUTIONS INC.

    A marketing subsidiary of the credit reporting giant focused on identity-linkage and consumer research.

    You think that stuff even about your personal 401-K is private?

    https://www.ebri.org/retirement/401(k)-plans


    Heck even Oracle sells a lot more than Java:

    ORACLE AMERICA INC. (ORACLE DATA CLOUD)

    Data giant “Oracle Data Cloud gives marketers access to 5 billion global IDs, $3 trillion in consumer transactions, and more than 1,500 data partners available through the BlueKai Marketplace. With more than 45,000 prebuilt audiences spanning demographic, behavioral, B2B, online, offline, and transactional data, we bring together more data into a single location than any other solution.”

    edited April 5 lostkiwiGeorgeBMacSoli
  • Reply 51 of 51
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,713member
    I agree to an extent.  Quicken is, however, pushing the subscription model.  While I currently have a locally installed copy of Quicken, at some point they'll stop supporting it, and probably even change the format of the downloads so that it's no longer as useful.  I will not allow a subscription app for something like this.

    I've complained about it every time they've asked for feedback, but I doubt it will have an effect.
    They won't stop supporting the local copy feature in favor of a cloud based model if they are smart.   For many that is a primary feature of the product and one that differentiates it from its free or low-cost peers.

    The subscription model is giving me pause -- it effectively raises the price substantially.   It's not as bad when you take advantage of their 40% off offers.   But then it goes to automatic renewal at full price.  Hopefully the extra revenue from the subscription dissuades them from going to a strictly cloud based model.
    I'm not a sanguine as you are about their continued support of the stand-alone version.  It's no longer Intuit (or at least not the original Intuit) that owns the product, and even they were talking up the subscription model.

    If Quicken goes to a cloud based thing, like Quickbooks, there's no way I'll continue using it; I'll be busting out my old Clipper checkbook source and porting it to C# or something. :)  No stinking way at all that my financial data is going to depend on someone else for safety and security.
    They have cloud based now.  But they provide it as an option to make your data portable onto your iPhone and such -- so you can enter transactions as they occur.  While there is no guarantee that they won't go 100% cloud based, I think that would be tactically stupid of them as I suspect they suck a lot of clients away from the strictly cloud based services for the security reason you site.
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