Apple gaining PC marketshare despite lower Mac shipments, fresh estimates suggest

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 27
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,304member
    robbyx said:
    MacPro said:
    robbyx said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    On the other hand, you need marketshare to attract third party developers, something Apple has done quite well on iOS, but never particularly well on macOS.  The Mac is withering on the vine at Apple anyway. They’re going to keep it alive until iOS can replace it, but it’s clear that computers, at least in the traditional desktop sense of the word, haven’t been Apple’s passion for a while now.
    There are quite a few Macs out there and unlike the buyers of low-end PCs, they do have the ability to buy lots of stuff.  Don't get me wrong there are great high-end PCs out there from the likes of Dell but the vast majority are low-end crap.
    When I read comments like this, I just sort of marvel at how Apple fans have changed over the years.  It never used to be about which company was the most profitable or which users did or did not have the means to buy things (in other words, naked classism).  It was always about which platform was better.

    Today Apple fans routinely point out how Apple takes the lion's share of profit in a market or how buyers of low-end, non-Apple products are cheap and don't spend any money, or can't (because they are poor and some cheap low-end Android or crap PC is the best they can do).  And we wonder why so many non-Apple fans think so poorly of Apple fans...

    When it comes to developer support, the reason we don't see more developers embrace the Mac is marketshare.  Mac marketshare has more or less climbed as high as it's going to climb as long as Apple stays the course.  Apple might very well be the fourth or fifth largest computer manufacturer, but when it comes to total marketshare, they are a drop in the bucket compared to Windows.  So most developers don't care - and never will care - about the Mac.

    While Apple massively gouges its customers with a 40% profit margin, something Apple fans on these forums routinely celebrate (which I've always found very strange considering that we're the ones being gouged!), Dell and others sell you better hardware at sometimes half the price.  There's a thriving third party software market for Windows.  Those low-end PC customers must be buying lots of third party software, contrary to your suggestion, or the vast majority of developers wouldn't be supporting Windows.  If all the money was in Mac development, we'd be spoiled for choice in the Mac world.  Unfortunately, the opposite is true.  So I think you're pretty much flat wrong that low-end PCs don't translate into third party software sales.

    With a ~40% profit margin and more cash in the bank than most governments, Apple could compete on price if they wanted to.  Like I said earlier, and have said many times before, I don't believe that Apple is particularly invested in the Mac these days.  Apple is clearly much more enthusiastic about iOS than macOS.  If Apple really wanted to grow Mac marketshare, there are many approaches it could take.  Instead, the Mac withers on the vine, with the occasional underwhelming, and increasingly overpriced, update for each model.  
    1. Apple’s profit margin peaked at 40% in 2015.

    2. Don’t ever buy furniture — 100% markup. 

    IMO, the reason Apple’s profitability is cited is to counter the naysayers who said Apple gear is too expensive, the value proposition isn’t there, no one would buy it, Apple would be DOOMED, etc... When reality is really telling the exact opposite. Truth hurts.
    jony0
  • Reply 22 of 27
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,304member

    KITA said:
    sacto joe said:
    robbyx said:
    MacPro said:
    robbyx said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    On the other hand, you need marketshare to attract third party developers, something Apple has done quite well on iOS, but never particularly well on macOS.  The Mac is withering on the vine at Apple anyway. They’re going to keep it alive until iOS can replace it, but it’s clear that computers, at least in the traditional desktop sense of the word, haven’t been Apple’s passion for a while now.
    There are quite a few Macs out there and unlike the buyers of low-end PCs, they do have the ability to buy lots of stuff.  Don't get me wrong there are great high-end PCs out there from the likes of Dell but the vast majority are low-end crap.
    When I read comments like this, I just sort of marvel at how Apple fans have changed over the years.  It never used to be about which company was the most profitable or which users did or did not have the means to buy things (in other words, naked classism).  It was always about which platform was better.

    Today Apple fans routinely point out how Apple takes the lion's share of profit in a market or how buyers of low-end, non-Apple products are cheap and don't spend any money, or can't (because they are poor and some cheap low-end Android or crap PC is the best they can do).  And we wonder why so many non-Apple fans think so poorly of Apple fans...

    When it comes to developer support, the reason we don't see more developers embrace the Mac is marketshare.  Mac marketshare has more or less climbed as high as it's going to climb as long as Apple stays the course.  Apple might very well be the fourth or fifth largest computer manufacturer, but when it comes to total marketshare, they are a drop in the bucket compared to Windows.  So most developers don't care - and never will care - about the Mac.

    While Apple massively gouges its customers with a 40% profit margin, something Apple fans on these forums routinely celebrate (which I've always found very strange considering that we're the ones being gouged!), Dell and others sell you better hardware at sometimes half the price.  There's a thriving third party software market for Windows.  Those low-end PC customers must be buying lots of third party software, contrary to your suggestion, or the vast majority of developers wouldn't be supporting Windows.  If all the money was in Mac development, we'd be spoiled for choice in the Mac world.  Unfortunately, the opposite is true.  So I think you're pretty much flat wrong that low-end PCs don't translate into third party software sales.

    With a ~40% profit margin and more cash in the bank than most governments, Apple could compete on price if they wanted to.  Like I said earlier, and have said many times before, I don't believe that Apple is particularly invested in the Mac these days.  Apple is clearly much more enthusiastic about iOS than macOS.  If Apple really wanted to grow Mac marketshare, there are many approaches it could take.  Instead, the Mac withers on the vine, with the occasional underwhelming, and increasingly overpriced, update for each model.  
    Ignore the reality that Microsoft uses clone makers to generate its cheap ash hardware and Apple uses its software to give great advantage to Apple product owners.

    Never admit that Microsoft can’t even begin to accomplish the integration between hardware and software that Apple does.

    Ignore the reality that Apple products last longer and perform better for longer than most PC products.

    The Windows ecosystem is Microsoft's software advantage. It's hard to use a Mac computer when it can't do nearly as much. There's a reason Apple is essentially non-existent in the workstation market, and it's not just their lack of hardware.

    Hololens, the leading AR system, is just one example of Microsoft raising the bar on hardware and software integration.
    You’re high. Macs can do as much as Windows machines and more, being a POSIX certified system. Plus I ran run both OSes on a Mac.

    Hololens? That’s your  example of MS killing it? HOLOLENS!? lol...good one. 


    jony0
  • Reply 23 of 27
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,304member

    Johan42 said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    Tell that to the companies making profits.

    Soli said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    I would assume that Apple is still making over 90% of the profit in the traditional, consumer PC desktop and notebook market.
    I would assume their crap is overpriced, so maybe you’re right.
    It’s not overpriced if the market supports it, by definition. Take a class on economics.
    jony0
  • Reply 24 of 27
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member
    seanj said:
    “Seriously, most PC products that cost as much (or in many cases quite a bit less) as an Apple product will probably last you just as long if not longer. A lot of them are also easily serviceable and have more powerful hardware.”

    [email protected] I still have a 2006 black MacBook that I use for various things, such as ripping due to the inbuilt drive. Previously it used to take a lot of punishment originally as my development machine and later for djing.
    Whereas at work I doubt if any of out comkany Lenovo, Microsoft, etc laptops are more than 6 years old. And Lenovo’s are really [email protected] with trackpads that are useless when brand new!
    I may agree with you with the quality of Lenovo trackpads in their old models.  But recently they have improved their trackpads a lot, in addition to their excellent keyboard, that is far better than Macbooks keyboards.
  • Reply 25 of 27
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member

    KITA said:
    sacto joe said:
    robbyx said:
    MacPro said:
    robbyx said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    On the other hand, you need marketshare to attract third party developers, something Apple has done quite well on iOS, but never particularly well on macOS.  The Mac is withering on the vine at Apple anyway. They’re going to keep it alive until iOS can replace it, but it’s clear that computers, at least in the traditional desktop sense of the word, haven’t been Apple’s passion for a while now.
    There are quite a few Macs out there and unlike the buyers of low-end PCs, they do have the ability to buy lots of stuff.  Don't get me wrong there are great high-end PCs out there from the likes of Dell but the vast majority are low-end crap.
    When I read comments like this, I just sort of marvel at how Apple fans have changed over the years.  It never used to be about which company was the most profitable or which users did or did not have the means to buy things (in other words, naked classism).  It was always about which platform was better.

    Today Apple fans routinely point out how Apple takes the lion's share of profit in a market or how buyers of low-end, non-Apple products are cheap and don't spend any money, or can't (because they are poor and some cheap low-end Android or crap PC is the best they can do).  And we wonder why so many non-Apple fans think so poorly of Apple fans...

    When it comes to developer support, the reason we don't see more developers embrace the Mac is marketshare.  Mac marketshare has more or less climbed as high as it's going to climb as long as Apple stays the course.  Apple might very well be the fourth or fifth largest computer manufacturer, but when it comes to total marketshare, they are a drop in the bucket compared to Windows.  So most developers don't care - and never will care - about the Mac.

    While Apple massively gouges its customers with a 40% profit margin, something Apple fans on these forums routinely celebrate (which I've always found very strange considering that we're the ones being gouged!), Dell and others sell you better hardware at sometimes half the price.  There's a thriving third party software market for Windows.  Those low-end PC customers must be buying lots of third party software, contrary to your suggestion, or the vast majority of developers wouldn't be supporting Windows.  If all the money was in Mac development, we'd be spoiled for choice in the Mac world.  Unfortunately, the opposite is true.  So I think you're pretty much flat wrong that low-end PCs don't translate into third party software sales.

    With a ~40% profit margin and more cash in the bank than most governments, Apple could compete on price if they wanted to.  Like I said earlier, and have said many times before, I don't believe that Apple is particularly invested in the Mac these days.  Apple is clearly much more enthusiastic about iOS than macOS.  If Apple really wanted to grow Mac marketshare, there are many approaches it could take.  Instead, the Mac withers on the vine, with the occasional underwhelming, and increasingly overpriced, update for each model.  
    Ignore the reality that Microsoft uses clone makers to generate its cheap ash hardware and Apple uses its software to give great advantage to Apple product owners.

    Never admit that Microsoft can’t even begin to accomplish the integration between hardware and software that Apple does.

    Ignore the reality that Apple products last longer and perform better for longer than most PC products.

    The Windows ecosystem is Microsoft's software advantage. It's hard to use a Mac computer when it can't do nearly as much. There's a reason Apple is essentially non-existent in the workstation market, and it's not just their lack of hardware.

    Hololens, the leading AR system, is just one example of Microsoft raising the bar on hardware and software integration.
    You’re high. Macs can do as much as Windows machines and more, being a POSIX certified system. Plus I ran run both OSes on a Mac.

    Technically you can run macOS in a Windows PC, but not legally.  Too bad, since Windows PCs offer many options, some of them better than Apple devices   

    Hololens? That’s your  example of MS killing it? HOLOLENS!? lol...good one. 
    Maybe Hololense sales aren't to the level of Apple devices.  But the level of innovation MS has showed is ahead of what Apple has released recently..

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 27
    Johan42Johan42 Posts: 163member

    Johan42 said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    Tell that to the companies making profits.

    Soli said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    I would assume that Apple is still making over 90% of the profit in the traditional, consumer PC desktop and notebook market.
    I would assume their crap is overpriced, so maybe you’re right.
    It’s not overpriced if the market supports it, by definition. Take a class on economics.
    $10 million for a car wouldn’t be overpriced either, by definition, but we all know it is. Take a class on brain usage.
  • Reply 27 of 27
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,997member

    Johan42 said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    Tell that to the companies making profits.

    Soli said:
    genovelle said:
    wood1208 said:
    I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,
    Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 
    I would assume that Apple is still making over 90% of the profit in the traditional, consumer PC desktop and notebook market.
    I would assume their crap is overpriced, so maybe you’re right.
    It’s not overpriced if the market supports it, by definition. Take a class on economics.
    Overpriced can be a personal perspective as well as a market perspective.  There's no need to be rude.
    jony0
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