2019 iPhone predicted to have triple-lens camera with super-wide lens, improved selfie cam...

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,618member

    gatorguy said:
    SNJOps said:
    Computational photography can only go so far at the moment. 
    How much further? Have you read something about where the limitations will be? Personally I see a dim future for Sony's mirrorless line, no better than for DSLR's, and much of it will be due to computational photography.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsAdG6wIAaM
    There are limitations due the lack of information the sensor/lens serves a ML algorithm. The more 'source data' (e.g resolution, depth maps, larger sensor, dynamic range), the better the starting point for computational photography. I don't see a dim future for full frame and medium format cameras at all. Although the market is really shrinking, it serves a different end-user and use-case. And don't forget that computational photography can also be applied to mirrorless cameras. But yes - the photo camera manufacturers better start working on getting this on par with phones (AFAIK they are).  
    I agree, I'm one of those "different end-user and use-case" guys too, dropping 2K on gear in just the past two weeks. At some point DSLR/Mirrorless and Computational photography will merge IMO. In fact there's quiet talk of one of the techs delving into the standalone camera market, based entirely on patent filings and supposition, but still I think if not them it's gonna happen anyway.  Imagine using the imaging quality and range of a DSLR (or your Sony) paired with excellent glass and combined with these features:

    • Compare multiple shots of photos to find the ones where people aren't blinking or suffering from awkward facial expressions.
    • Brighten the parts of the image where it detects humans and slightly smooths skin to make subjects look better.
    • Zoom in better by capturing more data about the scene from multiple shots and and using artificial intelligence technology that predicts how best to expand an image.
    • Photograph in dim conditions by merging multiple shots through a technology called Night Sight.
    edited April 19 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 42 of 63
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 740member
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
  • Reply 43 of 63
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,801member
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 44 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    tmay said:
    melgross said:
    Not innovation. Already in LG V-series phones since 2018. In fact they have 5 lenses/cameras now.
    And they take mediocre pictures.
    https://frankdoorhof.com/web/2019/04/solving-the-p30-pro-color-problems/

    Long story short, Huawei didn't build a color model to work with their imager.
    Yes. Good article. I’ve been talking about this for years. No Android phone camera is properly set up. Not a single one. The problem with most reviews is that the reviews know little to nothing about photography. They can’t tell anything about their photos other than sharpness and exposure. They don’t understand color, for one thing. Or saturation. They take mediocre pictures that are often mis shot for what they’re trying to illustrate. They don’t understand flare, or other shooting problems. 

    I’m now reading in a couple of places that Google has implemented color management in the Android OS. But they haven’t. That will require an entire overhaul of their display model. What they’ve done is a very modest ability to display (sometimes) two specific standards, but not at the same time. This is far from color management. I used to teach that.
    Color is not nearly as important to me personally, especially from a smartphone camera. Punched up a bit is fine.

    Heck I just spent around three hours this weekend post-processing a portrait shoot and MANY of the shots were boosted, and every one of those distributed was modified in some way or another. Sometimes minor and sometimes major. Why? Because the people who wanted the shots would not have been happy with "as is" for the most part. 

    Mel, I'm certain as a photographer yourself you knew that and do the same thing. Heck, what's one of the the first things you typically (not always) do when opening a photo in Photoshop: Boost the vibrance and saturation a tad.  If the client looks healthier, the hair more vibrant, the skin is clearer, and her green dress didn't become ocean blue, it's all good. Even commercial products get their colors boosted. The actual color of "things" is less important than what the client WANTS the color to be, right?


    It’s not just the idea that the color is wrong. If contrast, saturation and balance is wrong, we can fix it. That is, if it’s a RAW file, we can fix it. If it’s a JPEG , there’s little we can do before we destroy more than we fix.

    but if the color model is wrong, there are uncorrectable errors in the file. I can fix it, because I have software you don’t. But you can’t fix it. So it then depends on how critical you are. 
  • Reply 45 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
  • Reply 46 of 63
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,801member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
    As I said, this will affect a tiny proportion of users because most people shoot direct to JPG and simply won't run into the issue.

    If you shoot RAW/DNG, the problem exists and should be fixed in an update but until then the solution is quite simple even without a software update.

    It was mentioned in the linked article:

    "Well until Huawei somehow fixes their RAW/DNG files (and that shouldn’t be hard seeing it’s only a wrong profiling) you will have to use a separate profile for your DNGs. And again its really easy to build and in all honesty if you’re serious about photography you probably already own a colorchecker."

    That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other situations though and I hope it gets fixed quickly. Not fixing it would be unacceptable IMO. Huawei has its own imaging division so it's not exactly stretched in that area.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 47 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
    As I said, this will affect a tiny proportion of users because most people shoot direct to JPG and simply won't run into the issue.

    If you shoot RAW/DNG, the problem exists and should be fixed in an update but until then the solution is quite simple even without a software update.

    It was mentioned in the linked article:

    "Well until Huawei somehow fixes their RAW/DNG files (and that shouldn’t be hard seeing it’s only a wrong profiling) you will have to use a separate profile for your DNGs. And again its really easy to build and in all honesty if you’re serious about photography you probably already own a colorchecker."

    That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other situations though and I hope it gets fixed quickly. Not fixing it would be unacceptable IMO. Huawei has its own imaging division so it's not exactly stretched in that area.
    Honestly, most people who don’t care won’t be affected. But I’m willing to bet that a greater percentage of iPhone users care than Huawei users. Still, there’s really no excuse.
  • Reply 48 of 63
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,801member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
    As I said, this will affect a tiny proportion of users because most people shoot direct to JPG and simply won't run into the issue.

    If you shoot RAW/DNG, the problem exists and should be fixed in an update but until then the solution is quite simple even without a software update.

    It was mentioned in the linked article:

    "Well until Huawei somehow fixes their RAW/DNG files (and that shouldn’t be hard seeing it’s only a wrong profiling) you will have to use a separate profile for your DNGs. And again its really easy to build and in all honesty if you’re serious about photography you probably already own a colorchecker."

    That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other situations though and I hope it gets fixed quickly. Not fixing it would be unacceptable IMO. Huawei has its own imaging division so it's not exactly stretched in that area.
    Honestly, most people who don’t care won’t be affected. But I’m willing to bet that a greater percentage of iPhone users care than Huawei users. Still, there’s really no excuse.
    I'd say it's possibly the other way around but it is impossible to know. What we all do know is that the vast majority of photos taken on phones, go straight to .jpg.

    I'd go as far to say over 99%.
  • Reply 49 of 63
    On iPhones, the 1X camera is not a "normal" lens. The 2X camera is not a "telephoto" lens. Why? In 35mm terms, a "normal" lens is 44 mm. That is the diagonal of a 24mm x 36mm frame. (See Pythagoras). The 1X lens on an iPhone is 26mm. Hardly "normal." It is a wide angle lens. The 2X lens is 52mm. Slightly telephoto. Try this experiment. Shoot a subject with both 1X and 2X. The 1X photo will appear distorted. The 2X photo is closer to normal. I only use the 1X lens for landscapes or if I can't get back far enough to get in all of the people in a group.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 50 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
    As I said, this will affect a tiny proportion of users because most people shoot direct to JPG and simply won't run into the issue.

    If you shoot RAW/DNG, the problem exists and should be fixed in an update but until then the solution is quite simple even without a software update.

    It was mentioned in the linked article:

    "Well until Huawei somehow fixes their RAW/DNG files (and that shouldn’t be hard seeing it’s only a wrong profiling) you will have to use a separate profile for your DNGs. And again its really easy to build and in all honesty if you’re serious about photography you probably already own a colorchecker."

    That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other situations though and I hope it gets fixed quickly. Not fixing it would be unacceptable IMO. Huawei has its own imaging division so it's not exactly stretched in that area.
    Honestly, most people who don’t care won’t be affected. But I’m willing to bet that a greater percentage of iPhone users care than Huawei users. Still, there’s really no excuse.
    I'd say it's possibly the other way around but it is impossible to know. What we all do know is that the vast majority of photos taken on phones, go straight to .jpg.

    I'd go as far to say over 99%.
    Don’t guess, as you don’t know.
  • Reply 51 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member
    On iPhones, the 1X camera is not a "normal" lens. The 2X camera is not a "telephoto" lens. Why? In 35mm terms, a "normal" lens is 44 mm. That is the diagonal of a 24mm x 36mm frame. (See Pythagoras). The 1X lens on an iPhone is 26mm. Hardly "normal." It is a wide angle lens. The 2X lens is 52mm. Slightly telephoto. Try this experiment. Shoot a subject with both 1X and 2X. The 1X photo will appear distorted. The 2X photo is closer to normal. I only use the 1X lens for landscapes or if I can't get back far enough to get in all of the people in a group.
    Nobody cares. Standards change. Almost no one uses 50mm lenses on full frame these days anyway. That has moved to 35mm and even 28mm.
  • Reply 52 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,618member
    melgross said:
    On iPhones, the 1X camera is not a "normal" lens. The 2X camera is not a "telephoto" lens. Why? In 35mm terms, a "normal" lens is 44 mm. That is the diagonal of a 24mm x 36mm frame. (See Pythagoras). The 1X lens on an iPhone is 26mm. Hardly "normal." It is a wide angle lens. The 2X lens is 52mm. Slightly telephoto. Try this experiment. Shoot a subject with both 1X and 2X. The 1X photo will appear distorted. The 2X photo is closer to normal. I only use the 1X lens for landscapes or if I can't get back far enough to get in all of the people in a group.
    Nobody cares. Standards change. Almost no one uses 50mm lenses on full frame these days anyway. That has moved to 35mm and even 28mm.
    Generally not for portraits, altho some people have naturally small noses and small body frames that those wider lenses might improve on by filling the space better.  :)
  • Reply 53 of 63
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,801member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
    As I said, this will affect a tiny proportion of users because most people shoot direct to JPG and simply won't run into the issue.

    If you shoot RAW/DNG, the problem exists and should be fixed in an update but until then the solution is quite simple even without a software update.

    It was mentioned in the linked article:

    "Well until Huawei somehow fixes their RAW/DNG files (and that shouldn’t be hard seeing it’s only a wrong profiling) you will have to use a separate profile for your DNGs. And again its really easy to build and in all honesty if you’re serious about photography you probably already own a colorchecker."

    That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other situations though and I hope it gets fixed quickly. Not fixing it would be unacceptable IMO. Huawei has its own imaging division so it's not exactly stretched in that area.
    Honestly, most people who don’t care won’t be affected. But I’m willing to bet that a greater percentage of iPhone users care than Huawei users. Still, there’s really no excuse.
    I'd say it's possibly the other way around but it is impossible to know. What we all do know is that the vast majority of photos taken on phones, go straight to .jpg.

    I'd go as far to say over 99%.
    Don’t guess, as you don’t know.
    Well, I'll bet then. What's the difference? In both cases it is not known.
  • Reply 54 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    On iPhones, the 1X camera is not a "normal" lens. The 2X camera is not a "telephoto" lens. Why? In 35mm terms, a "normal" lens is 44 mm. That is the diagonal of a 24mm x 36mm frame. (See Pythagoras). The 1X lens on an iPhone is 26mm. Hardly "normal." It is a wide angle lens. The 2X lens is 52mm. Slightly telephoto. Try this experiment. Shoot a subject with both 1X and 2X. The 1X photo will appear distorted. The 2X photo is closer to normal. I only use the 1X lens for landscapes or if I can't get back far enough to get in all of the people in a group.
    Nobody cares. Standards change. Almost no one uses 50mm lenses on full frame these days anyway. That has moved to 35mm and even 28mm.
    Generally not for portraits, altho some people have naturally small noses and small body frames that those wider lenses might improve on by filling the space better.  :)
    How do you define portrait? Is it just when you get fairly close, or is it when you take a deliberate amount of time to set the photo up as a portrait? If the latter, then a 50 is still not the lens. For that, normally it’s 85 to 105. A 50 is a terrible portrait lens.
  • Reply 55 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
    As I said, this will affect a tiny proportion of users because most people shoot direct to JPG and simply won't run into the issue.

    If you shoot RAW/DNG, the problem exists and should be fixed in an update but until then the solution is quite simple even without a software update.

    It was mentioned in the linked article:

    "Well until Huawei somehow fixes their RAW/DNG files (and that shouldn’t be hard seeing it’s only a wrong profiling) you will have to use a separate profile for your DNGs. And again its really easy to build and in all honesty if you’re serious about photography you probably already own a colorchecker."

    That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other situations though and I hope it gets fixed quickly. Not fixing it would be unacceptable IMO. Huawei has its own imaging division so it's not exactly stretched in that area.
    Honestly, most people who don’t care won’t be affected. But I’m willing to bet that a greater percentage of iPhone users care than Huawei users. Still, there’s really no excuse.
    I'd say it's possibly the other way around but it is impossible to know. What we all do know is that the vast majority of photos taken on phones, go straight to .jpg.

    I'd go as far to say over 99%.
    Don’t guess, as you don’t know.
    Well, I'll bet then. What's the difference? In both cases it is not known.
    The important part here is that when a company botches their high quality models, it’s bad. Usually you’re yelling at us at how superior you think Huawei is. When they mess up something important, you’re too quick to dismiss it. Just admit they screwed this up, and we can move one.
  • Reply 56 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,618member
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    On iPhones, the 1X camera is not a "normal" lens. The 2X camera is not a "telephoto" lens. Why? In 35mm terms, a "normal" lens is 44 mm. That is the diagonal of a 24mm x 36mm frame. (See Pythagoras). The 1X lens on an iPhone is 26mm. Hardly "normal." It is a wide angle lens. The 2X lens is 52mm. Slightly telephoto. Try this experiment. Shoot a subject with both 1X and 2X. The 1X photo will appear distorted. The 2X photo is closer to normal. I only use the 1X lens for landscapes or if I can't get back far enough to get in all of the people in a group.
    Nobody cares. Standards change. Almost no one uses 50mm lenses on full frame these days anyway. That has moved to 35mm and even 28mm.
    Generally not for portraits, altho some people have naturally small noses and small body frames that those wider lenses might improve on by filling the space better.  :)
    How do you define portrait? Is it just when you get fairly close, or is it when you take a deliberate amount of time to set the photo up as a portrait? If the latter, then a 50 is still not the lens. For that, normally it’s 85 to 105. A 50 is a terrible portrait lens.
    Full-frame? I've shot tighter when the situation warrants, but anything from 85 to 200 works really well as you know, while anything between 40 and 200 on APS-C does well, 55mm for example being the 85 full-frame equivalent. Certainly never a 26 FF equivalent tho which is what the OP was referring to, nor even what you've deemed the "new norm" from 28mm -35mm. Perhaps you've confused it as the "new norm' for 4/3 mirrorless. On full-frame that's still pretty wide and not usually suited for portraiture except for certain poses/body types or group shots.

    You know anything under 40mm is going to have noticeable distortion to a discerning eye. 

    Equivalency chart for those curious about the conversion between sensor sizes:
    https://mmcalc.com/
    edited April 24
  • Reply 57 of 63
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,801member
    melgross said:

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
    As I said, this will affect a tiny proportion of users because most people shoot direct to JPG and simply won't run into the issue.

    If you shoot RAW/DNG, the problem exists and should be fixed in an update but until then the solution is quite simple even without a software update.

    It was mentioned in the linked article:

    "Well until Huawei somehow fixes their RAW/DNG files (and that shouldn’t be hard seeing it’s only a wrong profiling) you will have to use a separate profile for your DNGs. And again its really easy to build and in all honesty if you’re serious about photography you probably already own a colorchecker."

    That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other situations though and I hope it gets fixed quickly. Not fixing it would be unacceptable IMO. Huawei has its own imaging division so it's not exactly stretched in that area.
    Honestly, most people who don’t care won’t be affected. But I’m willing to bet that a greater percentage of iPhone users care than Huawei users. Still, there’s really no excuse.
    I'd say it's possibly the other way around but it is impossible to know. What we all do know is that the vast majority of photos taken on phones, go straight to .jpg.

    I'd go as far to say over 99%.
    Don’t guess, as you don’t know.
    Well, I'll bet then. What's the difference? In both cases it is not known.
    The important part here is that when a company botches their high quality models, it’s bad. Usually you’re yelling at us at how superior you think Huawei is. When they mess up something important, you’re too quick to dismiss it. Just admit they screwed this up, and we can move one.
    You need to re-read my original post.

    I said it would be unacceptable not to fix it.

    What I did was not to dismiss it but put it into perspective. Almost everybody using the phone will simply never run into the issue.

    That is a fact but no reason not to fix the problem. I made that crystal clear.
  • Reply 58 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    On iPhones, the 1X camera is not a "normal" lens. The 2X camera is not a "telephoto" lens. Why? In 35mm terms, a "normal" lens is 44 mm. That is the diagonal of a 24mm x 36mm frame. (See Pythagoras). The 1X lens on an iPhone is 26mm. Hardly "normal." It is a wide angle lens. The 2X lens is 52mm. Slightly telephoto. Try this experiment. Shoot a subject with both 1X and 2X. The 1X photo will appear distorted. The 2X photo is closer to normal. I only use the 1X lens for landscapes or if I can't get back far enough to get in all of the people in a group.
    Nobody cares. Standards change. Almost no one uses 50mm lenses on full frame these days anyway. That has moved to 35mm and even 28mm.
    Generally not for portraits, altho some people have naturally small noses and small body frames that those wider lenses might improve on by filling the space better.  :)
    How do you define portrait? Is it just when you get fairly close, or is it when you take a deliberate amount of time to set the photo up as a portrait? If the latter, then a 50 is still not the lens. For that, normally it’s 85 to 105. A 50 is a terrible portrait lens.
    Full-frame? I've shot tighter when the situation warrants, but anything from 85 to 200 works really well as you know, while anything between 40 and 200 on APS-C does well, 55mm for example being the 85 full-frame equivalent. Certainly never a 26 FF equivalent tho which is what the OP was referring to, nor even what you've deemed the "new norm" from 28mm -35mm. Perhaps you've confused it as the "new norm' for 4/3 mirrorless. On full-frame that's still pretty wide and not usually suited for portraiture except for certain poses/body types or group shots.

    You know anything under 40mm is going to have noticeable distortion to a discerning eye. 

    Equivalency chart for those curious about the conversion between sensor sizes:
    https://mmcalc.com/
    I’m not confused at all. 35 and 28 are now the “normal” walking around lenses for FF. 50 has lost a lot of interest, except on the very high end, where all the better 50s are large, heavy, fast and very expensive. Not what most will be buying. Other than that, most all other 50s are outdated designs which don’t do well on modern digital cameras.

    APS-C is different, and manufacturers are pushing people towards FF. I get that, as smaller formats aren’t doing too well these days. 4/3 looks to be out of it. Olympus has clearly lost their way, and they’re the leader there. Unfortunately, their marketshare is just 2% and declining.

    portrait photography is one of the most personal of people picture taking areas. If, as I said, you’re taking a portrait rather than just getting closer, which is different, almost anything longer than 50mm on FF will do. But get too long, and the photo is too flat in perspective, and your subject tends to blend into the background, which is generally not what you want. It also becomes hard to maintain tight focus as you need to stand back too far, collapsing the distance between subject and background. Since most longer lenses, such as 200mm are rarely faster than 2.8, and usually 3.5 or even 4, that could be a problem. Yes, I know that 2.8 on 200mm is more like 2.0 on 100 as far as focus depth is concerned, but the ratio of camera to subject distance and subject to background distance is altered considerably. At least in most portrait situations, other than some outdoors portraits.

    focal length has nothing to do with distortion. It’s perspective. The ratio of distance between the closest part of a subject and the furthest part of the subject and the distance from the camera. If you take a photo with different focal lengths and maintain the same ratios, and then enlarge to keep the subject size the same, you will have the same perspective, and thus, the same distortion. This isn’t on me, it’s very well understood. You can read about it in any good photo book, or camera site.
  • Reply 59 of 63
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,707member

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Tarbuckle said:
    Apple need to up their game so good news. Today comparison photos on web taken in near total darkness with iPhone came out just totally black but with great detail on P30 Pro so hoping they'll also catch up with low light software of Huawei also. Currently way behind the 8 ball??
    Because taking photos in complete darkness is day to day necessary?  I admit it's a cool feature and It is impressive, but behind the 8 ball?  Let's see what September brings.

    Also as someone pointed out here already the P30 Pro like the P20 Pro before it have color accuracy problems. Over processed and not color accurate was the wording that was used.


    I am no camera expert, but this seems WAY more important of a thing to work out than pics in complete darkness..  For the record I think the cameras on the P30 are pretty damn impressive and I love the low light shots it can take. Just making an observation..
    Jpg's, which almost everyone shoots, do not exhibit the problem and are of great quality.

    There is a problem but it looks like a software update will fix it.

    People won't use the cameras much to take photos in complete darkness. What counts is the low light performance, not performance in darkness although there are some uses for that too. Also the ability to point and shoot in those low light settings without needing long exposures is a plus. Although, once again, if you really want to switch to Night Mode, you can take long exposure, hand held photos if necessary. There are now plenty of examples all over the web.

    The iPhone will gain similar functionality in the next refresh.
    JPEGs are jpegs. You’re starting out with a lower quality file right there. It damn well better be good, because there’s very little you can fix in a JPEG before the image goes off the rails completely. But no matter what you do, a fine JPEG will never be as good as a fine RAW file. If the RAW file has uncorrectable errors as these appear to, because of an incorrect color model, you may not be able to fix them.

    yes, the problem can be fixed with a software update. The questions are; how long will it take for that update, will it actually fix the problem, and will they even bother to try? You can’t assume any of it.
    As I said, this will affect a tiny proportion of users because most people shoot direct to JPG and simply won't run into the issue.

    If you shoot RAW/DNG, the problem exists and should be fixed in an update but until then the solution is quite simple even without a software update.

    It was mentioned in the linked article:

    "Well until Huawei somehow fixes their RAW/DNG files (and that shouldn’t be hard seeing it’s only a wrong profiling) you will have to use a separate profile for your DNGs. And again its really easy to build and in all honesty if you’re serious about photography you probably already own a colorchecker."

    That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for other situations though and I hope it gets fixed quickly. Not fixing it would be unacceptable IMO. Huawei has its own imaging division so it's not exactly stretched in that area.
    Honestly, most people who don’t care won’t be affected. But I’m willing to bet that a greater percentage of iPhone users care than Huawei users. Still, there’s really no excuse.
    I'd say it's possibly the other way around but it is impossible to know. What we all do know is that the vast majority of photos taken on phones, go straight to .jpg.

    I'd go as far to say over 99%.
    Don’t guess, as you don’t know.
    Well, I'll bet then. What's the difference? In both cases it is not known.
    The important part here is that when a company botches their high quality models, it’s bad. Usually you’re yelling at us at how superior you think Huawei is. When they mess up something important, you’re too quick to dismiss it. Just admit they screwed this up, and we can move one.
    You need to re-read my original post.

    I said it would be unacceptable not to fix it.

    What I did was not to dismiss it but put it into perspective. Almost everybody using the phone will simply never run into the issue.

    That is a fact but no reason not to fix the problem. I made that crystal clear.
    Ok, good. But just remember that one of the main selling points of the phone is not jpeg, but the high quality modes. Jpeg from most high quality phones these days are pretty good, considering their source.
  • Reply 60 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,618member
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    On iPhones, the 1X camera is not a "normal" lens. The 2X camera is not a "telephoto" lens. Why? In 35mm terms, a "normal" lens is 44 mm. That is the diagonal of a 24mm x 36mm frame. (See Pythagoras). The 1X lens on an iPhone is 26mm. Hardly "normal." It is a wide angle lens. The 2X lens is 52mm. Slightly telephoto. Try this experiment. Shoot a subject with both 1X and 2X. The 1X photo will appear distorted. The 2X photo is closer to normal. I only use the 1X lens for landscapes or if I can't get back far enough to get in all of the people in a group.
    Nobody cares. Standards change. Almost no one uses 50mm lenses on full frame these days anyway. That has moved to 35mm and even 28mm.
    Generally not for portraits, altho some people have naturally small noses and small body frames that those wider lenses might improve on by filling the space better.  :)
    How do you define portrait? Is it just when you get fairly close, or is it when you take a deliberate amount of time to set the photo up as a portrait? If the latter, then a 50 is still not the lens. For that, normally it’s 85 to 105. A 50 is a terrible portrait lens.
    Full-frame? I've shot tighter when the situation warrants, but anything from 85 to 200 works really well as you know, while anything between 40 and 200 on APS-C does well, 55mm for example being the 85 full-frame equivalent. Certainly never a 26 FF equivalent tho which is what the OP was referring to, nor even what you've deemed the "new norm" from 28mm -35mm. Perhaps you've confused it as the "new norm' for 4/3 mirrorless. On full-frame that's still pretty wide and not usually suited for portraiture except for certain poses/body types or group shots.

    You know anything under 40mm is going to have noticeable distortion to a discerning eye. 

    Equivalency chart for those curious about the conversion between sensor sizes:
    https://mmcalc.com/

    focal length has nothing to do with distortion. It’s perspective. 
    https://www.diyphotography.net/gif-explains-changing-focal-length-impacts-portrait/ (Yes I understand "zoom with your feet" has a major part in it)

    BTW, it's referred to as Perspective Distortion, so everything to do with each other. You're welcome.
    edited April 25
Sign In or Register to comment.