Editorial: Could Apple's lock on premium luxury be eclipsed by an era of good-enough gear?...

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  • Reply 141 of 148
    ILoveTech said:
    To all those talking about "Good Enough", "Privacy", "Security" etc:

    Good Enough doesn't necessarily mean it is cheap. Someone buying an Android doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have money to buy an iPhone. It is calculative decision. Whether iPhone is worth it over Android?

    Okay, let's come to Privacy...

    Just to remind you all. Apple may not be collecting or selling your data. But, Apple tied up with Goldman Sachs for Apple Card. And if you don't know, your financial data is lot more crucial then your pictures with your GF in your Photos app. Don't believe me? Read this.... https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-card-three-fatal-flaws-that-hinder-usability-and-then-theres-goldman-sachs/

    Coming to PC and Laptop. I don't use Windows, and also Mac. I use Ubuntu. And let me tell you my 10 year old Lenovo Laptop with 1st Gen i3 can outperform Macbook Pro with i5 with same age. I have a MBP 2011 and had to upgrade RAM to 10GB to open three tabs in the brower.

    And before you come up with some rubbish data, just know that I have been in to tech industry for more than a decade. Working around making softwares and hardware. Better come up with strong arguments.

    Extract from ZDNET, if you didn't read:

    And then there's Goldman Sachs

    And then, finally, there's Goldman Sachs. In Apple's keynote, the company implied that your financial transactions will be secure because it's all being managed by Goldman Sachs.
    march-event-2019-apple-youtube-2019-04-02-16-35-19.jpg

    But let's not forget: Goldman Sachs was instrumental in causing the financial crisis of 2007-2008. The company not only received the largest TARP bailout of any firm (which they did repay), but then went on to pay out billions of dollars in executive bonuses.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that had nearly 1,000 subsidiaries functioning as offshore tax havens to avoid taxes and that helped Greece hide its debt, fostering the European sovereign debt crisis.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that has a history of executives prosecuted for insider trading, that pushed the housing crisis over the edge with junk mortgage speculation, that was then charged with securities fraud by the SEC.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that was fined millions by the SEC for improper securities lending practices, that has been the subject of criminal charges by the nation of Malaysia for misappropriating billions of dollars from the proceeds of bond sales, and that has been fined millions of dollars by the UK Financial Conduct Authority.

    That Goldman Sachs.

    So, yeah, when Apple VP of Internet Services Jennifer Bailey says "Goldman Sachs will never share or sell your data to third parties for marketing," I sure feel secure. Don't you?

    That's Apple Card. It's got some good ideas. It's got a bunch of fatal flaws. Maybe, in a few years, it will be more compelling. But right now, it's not going to be universally usable, and it's tied to Goldman Sachs. That Goldman Sachs.



    Yes, those are all good, legitimate points -- true and truly spoken -- no spin.

    But, at the same time, what other firm would you have preferred Apple go with instead of Goldman Sachs?   In terms of the Great Recession, they were pretty much all culpable and I don't know any bankster that I would trust -- particularly without a lot of regulation and oversight.

    Unfortunately, because of those same regulations, Apple was forced to pick one because they are not licensed to operate as a consumer bank.  Did they pick the rotten apple out of the barrel?  Or, were all the apples rotten?
    I am not in the US so cannot comment with full conviction, but if they can tie up with MasterCard, VISA wasn't far enough. For bank, they may have gone with Bank of America, HSBC, etc. Those are all reputed names when it comes to banking and finance. Again, not a finance expert, cannot claim to be right on this one.

    But I wouldn't have an Apple Card just a status symbol or privacy, when there is Goldman Sachs holding my crucial information with them.
  • Reply 142 of 148
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,961member
    ILoveTech said:
    ILoveTech said:
    To all those talking about "Good Enough", "Privacy", "Security" etc:

    Good Enough doesn't necessarily mean it is cheap. Someone buying an Android doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have money to buy an iPhone. It is calculative decision. Whether iPhone is worth it over Android?

    Okay, let's come to Privacy...

    Just to remind you all. Apple may not be collecting or selling your data. But, Apple tied up with Goldman Sachs for Apple Card. And if you don't know, your financial data is lot more crucial then your pictures with your GF in your Photos app. Don't believe me? Read this.... https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-card-three-fatal-flaws-that-hinder-usability-and-then-theres-goldman-sachs/

    Coming to PC and Laptop. I don't use Windows, and also Mac. I use Ubuntu. And let me tell you my 10 year old Lenovo Laptop with 1st Gen i3 can outperform Macbook Pro with i5 with same age. I have a MBP 2011 and had to upgrade RAM to 10GB to open three tabs in the brower.

    And before you come up with some rubbish data, just know that I have been in to tech industry for more than a decade. Working around making softwares and hardware. Better come up with strong arguments.

    Extract from ZDNET, if you didn't read:

    And then there's Goldman Sachs

    And then, finally, there's Goldman Sachs. In Apple's keynote, the company implied that your financial transactions will be secure because it's all being managed by Goldman Sachs.
    march-event-2019-apple-youtube-2019-04-02-16-35-19.jpg

    But let's not forget: Goldman Sachs was instrumental in causing the financial crisis of 2007-2008. The company not only received the largest TARP bailout of any firm (which they did repay), but then went on to pay out billions of dollars in executive bonuses.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that had nearly 1,000 subsidiaries functioning as offshore tax havens to avoid taxes and that helped Greece hide its debt, fostering the European sovereign debt crisis.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that has a history of executives prosecuted for insider trading, that pushed the housing crisis over the edge with junk mortgage speculation, that was then charged with securities fraud by the SEC.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that was fined millions by the SEC for improper securities lending practices, that has been the subject of criminal charges by the nation of Malaysia for misappropriating billions of dollars from the proceeds of bond sales, and that has been fined millions of dollars by the UK Financial Conduct Authority.

    That Goldman Sachs.

    So, yeah, when Apple VP of Internet Services Jennifer Bailey says "Goldman Sachs will never share or sell your data to third parties for marketing," I sure feel secure. Don't you?

    That's Apple Card. It's got some good ideas. It's got a bunch of fatal flaws. Maybe, in a few years, it will be more compelling. But right now, it's not going to be universally usable, and it's tied to Goldman Sachs. That Goldman Sachs.



    Yes, those are all good, legitimate points -- true and truly spoken -- no spin.

    But, at the same time, what other firm would you have preferred Apple go with instead of Goldman Sachs?   In terms of the Great Recession, they were pretty much all culpable and I don't know any bankster that I would trust -- particularly without a lot of regulation and oversight.

    Unfortunately, because of those same regulations, Apple was forced to pick one because they are not licensed to operate as a consumer bank.  Did they pick the rotten apple out of the barrel?  Or, were all the apples rotten?
    I am not in the US so cannot comment with full conviction, but if they can tie up with MasterCard, VISA wasn't far enough. For bank, they may have gone with Bank of America, HSBC, etc. Those are all reputed names when it comes to banking and finance. Again, not a finance expert, cannot claim to be right on this one.

    But I wouldn't have an Apple Card just a status symbol or privacy, when there is Goldman Sachs holding my crucial information with them.
    B of A and HSBC have each had their own fair share of scandals.   (B of A in the Great Recession and HSBC in their Asian businesses at about the same time but I don't remember the details.)

    Perhaps it's just simply that they're all crooks, but U.S. regulations keep them more honest when it comes to retail banking.

    But, in the U.S. various fintech and payment processors are lobbying to have the regulations loosened so that they can perform more banking functions without tying up to a bank (like Apple did with Goldman).   That would be good for the industry and for Apple -- but there are just as many crooks in FinTech and payment processors so I'm not sure how it would work out for the consumer in the long run.
  • Reply 143 of 148
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,997member
    Let's hope that partnership with Goldman Sachs is just a temporary stepping stone towards Apple Bank, and that there's some serious disruption of the clusterf*ck that is global finance yet to come.
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 144 of 148
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,532member
    bb-15 said:
    Imagine a company looking through your mail, tracking where you go & what you buy to send advertising to you. In the past that would have been intolerable.   
    But that is what Google does. It mines data on its apps, ties it to the user and uses that data to send individualized ads to the customer. 
    This is how Google makes most of its money. 

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/020515/business-google.asp ;

    https://bgr.com/2016/02/11/why-facebook-and-google-mine-your-data-and-why-theres-nothing-you-can-do-to-stop-it/ ;

    I minimize that kind of data tracking as much as possible & part of how I do that is to carefully use Apple products to reduce data tracking for ads.
    In addition, Apple has top notch customer service & devices which have OS support/updates for many years.  
    The Apple ecosystem works well across its devices. 
    Apple products by & large are simple to use & yet are very powerful. 

    For all those things which benefit me, I’m willing to pay a reasonable amount more. 

     
    You don’t think Apple would do the same? Tim Cook talking about privacy isn’t a guarantee. He may one day make the “pragmatic” decision to sell your data.
    Company A is a privacy nightmare, tracking your activity, storing it forever, buying additional 3rd party data to match against its own.
    Company B does none of these things, keeps much of its data only for 6 months, invests in methods to anonymize data, and actively promotes privacy and security.

    But, maybe in the future Company B will change their mind.  Therefore Company B really is no better than Company A...
    crowleymattinozmuthuk_vanalingamtmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 145 of 148
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,273member
    brucemc said:
    I always get a good laugh at posts like this one.  It starts off with the "Apple is not innovative enough" argument - that all they do is refine products instead of build the future.  And then they bring up what they want - a refined older Mac that has all of the ports of the last 10 years, and an updated SE.  Somehow this is innovation.
    I guess it depends what people mean by innovation. I don't think there is anything in the definition that says it has to be something completely new. But, in defense of the attitude you're critiquing, I think a lot of us aren't feeling like Apple has been innovating much, so we'd at least like to see them keep their current products updated and working well. If they aren't innovating or keeping their current products useful to us, that is doubly bad.

    Also, innovation isn't just making things totally new for the sake of being new. It also has to be useful to the target audience. For example, making a super thin laptop with an unreliable (nearly unusable for many) keyboard, ports that need adapters (because the tech everyone has that uses them isn't on the new connectors yet), and that can't cool itself (possibly because it is too thin), isn't a good kind of innovation, no matter how much of a feat it might have been.
    edited April 23
  • Reply 146 of 148
    correctionscorrections Posts: 1,372member
    Any product you can buy at your local Walmart probably doesn’t qualify as “premium luxury”.
    In most industries, the level of performance or quality keeps going up depending on how much money you have. You can buy a basic affordable car for $20k, and then pay $60, $80, $100+ thousand for ever fancier and well appointed cars. 

    For mobile phones, generally anyone can afford even the most expensive iPhone if they want to, and there really isn't anything better. Apple is pursuing the state of the art at a reasonable price range. 
  • Reply 147 of 148
    correctionscorrections Posts: 1,372member

    jdw said:

    Apple is usually leading the way...  
    So leading they threw practicality out the window in regards to ports.  Here we are several years after the USB-C debut and still USB-A is found everywhere.  Who in their right minds wants to throw out all those thumb drives and legacy USB-A peripherals?  Nobody.  And to make them work with newer MacBook "Pros" you need dongles, which are a bother.

    With regard to the butterfly keyboard, big-time Apple fan John Gruber, who is so pro-Apple that Apple often grants him sit-down interviews to top Apple executives, had a few choice words to say:

    https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/my_2018_apple_report_card

    Short quote from that page:

    "...it used to be the case that Apple’s notebook keyboards were widely hailed as the best in the world — that’s no longer the case, and I think that’s a problem."

    I side with John.  I love Apple, but I'm not blind to reality.  They are in many ways NOT leading the way, and that needs to change.
    Using a USB-A peripheral with USB-C doesn't require a "dongle" it requires a cable. 
  • Reply 148 of 148
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,070member
    Any product you can buy at your local Walmart probably doesn’t qualify as “premium luxury”.
    In most industries, the level of performance or quality keeps going up depending on how much money you have. You can buy a basic affordable car for $20k, and then pay $60, $80, $100+ thousand for ever fancier and well appointed cars. 

    For mobile phones, generally anyone can afford even the most expensive iPhone if they want to, and there really isn't anything better. Apple is pursuing the state of the art at a reasonable price range. 
    This is false.

    'Generally anyone' can afford the most expensive iPhone? Not even in the US.

    There are millions of people in Spain, for example, for whom the most expensive iPhone would be more than a month's salary. For millions more, there is no way surplus income could cover the thought of an iPhone XS Max.

    Imagine the situation in less industrialised countries. 'Anyone' (even when preceded by 'generally') isn't the right word here.

    As for there not being anything better than iPhone and it being state of the art, you will find other phones pursuing that with more success and even being - objectively - better in many areas. 
    gatorguy
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