Apple facing renewed boycott efforts in China following trade war escalation

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 47
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,038member
    avon b7 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    avon b7 said:
    I think it's a given that Apple will be caught in the shockwaves but with each move Donald Trump makes other US companies have sleepless nights. Boeing is probably one step closer to seeing Chinese orders slashed. Qualcomm may be wondering what impact this will have on its business too. If HiSilicon decides to open up availability of its second tier processors and WiFi chipsets to the wider market, things will just get much worse.

    I believe Huawei has been stockpiling certain components for a while now and increasing the amount of home grown technology in its equipment. Obviously these moves are to protect itself but they come at the cost of lost business for US companies.


    There has been little impact to US companies because it's just a matter of math.  China accounts for 2% of our economy.  We account for about 20% of theirs.  I don't US companies are all that concerned.  The media will tell you otherwise, because most of it has to make every move the Orange Man makes seem like WWIII, but it's not the case.  I think most people understand that the "trade war" is one China can't win, and that it was long past time we stood up to their international thievery.  The tariffs are a temporary measure to create leverage.  There may be some short term moderate pain, but that's about it.  
    My point wasn't so much on companies in general but targeted reference companies in select industries where the US could be hit and lose 'influence' as a result.

    That is why I mentioned Boeing. It has long been known that China wants to shake up the Airbus/Boeing duopoly. It's first effort has just been delayed by a couple of years I believe. In 5G it has largely succeeded in laying the groundwork for a major role. In AI it (through Huawei et al) is ploughing ahead. High speed rail etc.

    If there is going to be a revolution of sorts over the next two decades, China is quite well placed. 

    Donald Trump is basically demanding that the US 'win' the challenge and will stop at nothing to get it. Anyone can play as long as he wins. It could backfire in a huge way. The EU has recently begun a very similar roadmap to forge its own destiny. It has nothing to do with being anti US and everything to do with having more control of its future.

    That doesn't sit well with some people. 

    I suppose we could see certain sectors and individual companies affected due to retaliation like you've outlined.  I agree that China is well-placed, though I think what you're seeing now is an effort to prevent them from making more progress towards their goal of economic domination.  I have long heard that the Chinese decided in the 1990's that they would operate on a long-term plan to be able to take the U.S. on economically and militarily by the year 2050.  25 years in, they are making good progress.  I don't think this is a game to Trump...he's been talking about China and Japan eating our lunch since the 1980's.  It seems to me that he's the first President to really push back on Chinese aggression in many decades.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 47
    sdw2001 said:
    avon b7 said:
    I think it's a given that Apple will be caught in the shockwaves but with each move Donald Trump makes other US companies have sleepless nights. Boeing is probably one step closer to seeing Chinese orders slashed. Qualcomm may be wondering what impact this will have on its business too. If HiSilicon decides to open up availability of its second tier processors and WiFi chipsets to the wider market, things will just get much worse.

    I believe Huawei has been stockpiling certain components for a while now and increasing the amount of home grown technology in its equipment. Obviously these moves are to protect itself but they come at the cost of lost business for US companies.


    There has been little impact to US companies because it's just a matter of math.  China accounts for 2% of our economy.  We account for about 20% of theirs.  I don't US companies are all that concerned.  The media will tell you otherwise, because most of it has to make every move the Orange Man makes seem like WWIII, but it's not the case.  I think most people understand that the "trade war" is one China can't win, and that it was long past time we stood up to their international thievery.  The tariffs are a temporary measure to create leverage.  There may be some short term moderate pain, but that's about it.  
     China only accounts for 2% of our economy yet our trade deficit with them is a crisis?
    macplusplus
  • Reply 23 of 47
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 444member

    What bothers me is how some 3,000 self righteous Google employees petitioned their paymasters to stop supporting a joint AI research project with the US DOD because of their moral outrage at assisting the US military in analyzing drone footage, which might make acquiring legitimate targets easier and reduce the likelihood of targeting non-combatants.  And Google promptly stated that they would not renew the contract.

    Yet at the same time Google maintains an AI research facility in China, which will freely share their research with the Chinese state.  While the focus of the research is different, improved AI algorithms can be utilized in very different applications.

    That is f***ed up Google!

    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 47
    FolioFolio Posts: 567member
    Most in US might know about Chinese aggressive conversion of disputed islands, the Hong Kong and Taiwan snafus. Maybe moon landing. But how many aware of Arctic ambitions? Of giant coal plants in places like Sri Lanka and Pakistan to tie into their coal and sea lanes? Chinese people, while generally admirable, don't have much choice in their leaders. That's why global hegemony by a dictatorship surveillance state is a different animal.
    stompytmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 47
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,038member
    sdw2001 said:
    avon b7 said:
    I think it's a given that Apple will be caught in the shockwaves but with each move Donald Trump makes other US companies have sleepless nights. Boeing is probably one step closer to seeing Chinese orders slashed. Qualcomm may be wondering what impact this will have on its business too. If HiSilicon decides to open up availability of its second tier processors and WiFi chipsets to the wider market, things will just get much worse.

    I believe Huawei has been stockpiling certain components for a while now and increasing the amount of home grown technology in its equipment. Obviously these moves are to protect itself but they come at the cost of lost business for US companies.


    There has been little impact to US companies because it's just a matter of math.  China accounts for 2% of our economy.  We account for about 20% of theirs.  I don't US companies are all that concerned.  The media will tell you otherwise, because most of it has to make every move the Orange Man makes seem like WWIII, but it's not the case.  I think most people understand that the "trade war" is one China can't win, and that it was long past time we stood up to their international thievery.  The tariffs are a temporary measure to create leverage.  There may be some short term moderate pain, but that's about it.  
     China only accounts for 2% of our economy yet our trade deficit with them is a crisis?

    I didn't claim it was...or I certainly didn't mean to.  In fact, our deficit makes it much easier to "win" a trade war, so to speak.  They need us to buy their products more than we need them to buy ours.  Long term, I'm not sure a trade deficit is all that detrimental.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 47
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,191member
    The tariffs are a sales tax on the American people. It is one way Trump can mitigate the disastrous effects on revenue produced by his tax cut for the 1%. It hurts China sales by making them so expensive that the typical American can’t afford them. There are two separate issues, trade and IP. Trade wars do nothing to resolve IP issues. Those require a combined EU and US approach that Trump seems unable to grasp. So, he is making the IS worker pay the price, and invites retaliation against one of America’s foremost companies.
    LOL!
  • Reply 27 of 47
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,191member

    jmey267 said:
    Yes China please boycott Apple products and watch all of your people loose their jobs making them. This is just dumb and will hurt them even more when Apple pulls their manufacturing and goes to the Philippines or some other country.
    jmey267 said:
    Yes China please boycott Apple products and watch all of your people loose their jobs making them. This is just dumb and will hurt them even more when Apple pulls their manufacturing and goes to the Philippines or some other country.
    I could see Mexico becoming a bigger source of labor for Apple eventually, but not until the immigration thing is ironed out.
    GG1
  • Reply 28 of 47
    bohlerbohler Posts: 21member
    if all of this madness continues, Apple will loose all of its China business and maybe more given that China will kill its supply chain if Trump destroys Huawei. Many US semiconductor companies will just disappear in thin air , including Qualcomm as only Samsung would remain as a buyer on the smartphone side....all the others including Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Lenovo...puuufff.....gone
  • Reply 29 of 47
    uraharaurahara Posts: 241member
    sdw2001 said:
    avon b7 said:
    I think it's a given that Apple will be caught in the shockwaves but with each move Donald Trump makes other US companies have sleepless nights. Boeing is probably one step closer to seeing Chinese orders slashed. Qualcomm may be wondering what impact this will have on its business too. If HiSilicon decides to open up availability of its second tier processors and WiFi chipsets to the wider market, things will just get much worse.

    I believe Huawei has been stockpiling certain components for a while now and increasing the amount of home grown technology in its equipment. Obviously these moves are to protect itself but they come at the cost of lost business for US companies.


    There has been little impact to US companies because it's just a matter of math.  China accounts for 2% of our economy.  We account for about 20% of theirs.  I don't US companies are all that concerned.  The media will tell you otherwise, because most of it has to make every move the Orange Man makes seem like WWIII, but it's not the case.  I think most people understand that the "trade war" is one China can't win, and that it was long past time we stood up to their international thievery.  The tariffs are a temporary measure to create leverage.  There may be some short term moderate pain, but that's about it.  
    Where did you take the numbers of 2% and 20% from?
  • Reply 30 of 47
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,944member
    The U.S. House of Representatives Intelligence Committee - Thursday:

    “Today, our nation faces no greater long-term strategic challenge than China’s emergence as a major actor on the global stage,”

    Adam Schiff, the committee’s Democratic chairman

    “Beijing has implemented an aggressive and sophisticated whole of society influence campaign to win supporters, sow confusion in the American public and undermine opposition to the Chinese threat within American society,” 

    Representative Devin Nunes, the committee’s ranking Republican.

    These types of quotes are the types that cement, in the minds of many onlookers, that 
    the US is simply trying to protect its commercial interests and arc of influence.

    After almost a decade of being unable to dig up any real dirt on Huawei, we now have a 'deep dive' proposal into China.

    The absurd point on the results, which we already known, is that many of the accusations that will be levelled at China could easily be redirected back to the US.

    In the meantime, and from a consumer and business standpoint - everybody will lose.











    edited May 16
  • Reply 31 of 47
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    avon b7 said:
    The U.S. House of Representatives Intelligence Committee - Thursday:

    “Today, our nation faces no greater long-term strategic challenge than China’s emergence as a major actor on the global stage,”

    Adam Schiff, the committee’s Democratic chairman

    “Beijing has implemented an aggressive and sophisticated whole of society influence campaign to win supporters, sow confusion in the American public and undermine opposition to the Chinese threat within American society,” 

    Representative Devin Nunes, the committee’s ranking Republican.

    These types of quotes are the types that cement, in the minds of many onlookers, that 
    the US is simply trying to protect its commercial interests and arc of influence.

    After almost a decade of being unable to dig up any real dirt on Huawei, we now have a 'deep dive' proposal into China.

    The absurd point on the results, which we already know, is that many of the accusations that will be levelled at China could easily be redirected back to the US.

    In the meantime, and from a consumer and business standpoint - everybody will lose.













    "Dutch newspaper Volkskrant reports that tech company Huawei is possibly implicated in Chinese espionage in the Netherlands. Huawei would have a hidden backdoor to client data of one of the three main telco’s in the Netherlands: Vodafone/Ziggo, T-Mobile or KPN."

    News items as this are appearing more frequently, likely due to nations actually becoming concerned about their infrastructure's security, and investigating security breaches.


    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/beijing-olympics-china-influence-campaigns/589186/

    "Judged by its scope and scale, and the sheer number of active participants, China’s 2008 measures amounted to arguably the largest covert global influence campaign in history, and a preview of how China—now a behemoth seen in Washington more as a threat than a partner—would approach power and influence as its international status grew. Yet at the time, Western observers, who were preoccupied with domestic Chinese human-rights violations and what appeared to be a surge in organic Chinese nationalism in cities such as London and Paris, missed it almost entirely."


    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/05/08/575479/anne-marie-bradys-full-submission#

    "Anne-Marie Brady draws on 30 years of research into China to make her submission to the Justice Select Committee Inquiry into Foreign Interference. Here it is in full. "


    "Xi-era united front work activities fall into four categories:
    1. Efforts to control the Chinese diaspora, to utilise them as agents of Chinese foreign policy and suppress any hints of dissent.
    2. Efforts to coopt foreigners to support and promote the CCP’s foreign policy goals and access information and technical knowledge.
    3. Promotion of a global, multi-platform, strategic communication strategy aimed at promoting China’s agenda and suppressing critical perspectives on the CCP and its policies.
    4. Rolling out of the China-centred economic, transport and communications strategic bloc known as the Belt and Road Initiative."

    Funny how I find your exceptionally strong support of Huawei to be consistent with China's, and more specifically, Huawei's, influence campaigns.

    edited May 16 watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 47
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,944member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    The U.S. House of Representatives Intelligence Committee - Thursday:

    “Today, our nation faces no greater long-term strategic challenge than China’s emergence as a major actor on the global stage,”

    Adam Schiff, the committee’s Democratic chairman

    “Beijing has implemented an aggressive and sophisticated whole of society influence campaign to win supporters, sow confusion in the American public and undermine opposition to the Chinese threat within American society,” 

    Representative Devin Nunes, the committee’s ranking Republican.

    These types of quotes are the types that cement, in the minds of many onlookers, that 
    the US is simply trying to protect its commercial interests and arc of influence.

    After almost a decade of being unable to dig up any real dirt on Huawei, we now have a 'deep dive' proposal into China.

    The absurd point on the results, which we already know, is that many of the accusations that will be levelled at China could easily be redirected back to the US.

    In the meantime, and from a consumer and business standpoint - everybody will lose.













    "Dutch newspaper Volkskrant reports that tech company Huawei is possibly implicated in Chinese espionage in the Netherlands. Huawei would have a hidden backdoor to client data of one of the three main telco’s in the Netherlands: Vodafone/Ziggo, T-Mobile or KPN."

    News items as this are appearing more frequently, likely due to nations actually becoming concerned about their infrastructure's security, and investigating security breaches.


    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/beijing-olympics-china-influence-campaigns/589186/

    "Judged by its scope and scale, and the sheer number of active participants, China’s 2008 measures amounted to arguably the largest covert global influence campaign in history, and a preview of how China—now a behemoth seen in Washington more as a threat than a partner—would approach power and influence as its international status grew. Yet at the time, Western observers, who were preoccupied with domestic Chinese human-rights violations and what appeared to be a surge in organic Chinese nationalism in cities such as London and Paris, missed it almost entirely."


    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/05/08/575479/anne-marie-bradys-full-submission#

    "Anne-Marie Brady draws on 30 years of research into China to make her submission to the Justice Select Committee Inquiry into Foreign Interference. Here it is in full. "


    "Xi-era united front work activities fall into four categories:
    1. Efforts to control the Chinese diaspora, to utilise them as agents of Chinese foreign policy and suppress any hints of dissent.
    2. Efforts to coopt foreigners to support and promote the CCP’s foreign policy goals and access information and technical knowledge.
    3. Promotion of a global, multi-platform, strategic communication strategy aimed at promoting China’s agenda and suppressing critical perspectives on the CCP and its policies.
    4. Rolling out of the China-centred economic, transport and communications strategic bloc known as the Belt and Road Initiative."

    Funny how I find your exceptionally strong support of Huawei to be consistent with China's, and more specifically, Huawei's, influence campaigns.

    What exceptionally strong support of Huawei?

    I'm in favour of criticism, where criticism is due. The Dutch story, just like pretty much every story so far in this regard is 'alleged, possible, unproven, etc'.

    I prefer to wait, hear out both sides and follow any formal prosecution before jumping the gun.

    I quoted the above words because they are not alleged, they are real and in a top level context. They paint a very clear picture of US high level, cross party thinking.

    I do not think it would be far fetched to see Huawei take this to court. A senator already went on record as saying Huawei must be destroyed.

    Of course, I also believe that a different president would bring a completely different attitude on to how to operate. I do not think the current setup is beneficial to the goals of the US even if Donald Trump thinks it is working. 

    It will harm everyone, Apple and Qualcomm, jobs, income included.

    5G deployment is going to get more expensive for sure after these moves. Apple's core business is going to get hit and what Apple and Qualcomm lose today, might not come back tomorrow.

    Here's a recent piece:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/huawei-donald-trump-trade-war-fans-flame/

    It's curious how 'security' is taking an ever bigger back seat to other issues. The shadow of protectionism is looming large.
    edited May 16
  • Reply 33 of 47
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,597member
    I assume Mr. Trump will compensate Apple’s losses in the trade war he started out of his vast personal wealth. /s
    davenwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 47
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,597member
    matrix077 said:
    Westerners who don’t understand China well needs to understand them as they truly are.. a greedy nation and an aggressor. 
    So they’re just like America! What’s to understand?
    JWSCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 47
    racerhomie3racerhomie3 Posts: 1,142member
    chasm said:
    matrix077 said:
    Westerners who don’t understand China well needs to understand them as they truly are.. a greedy nation and an aggressor. 
    So they’re just like America! What’s to understand?  
    Hello 50 cent army.
  • Reply 36 of 47
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    sdw2001 said:
    avon b7 said:
    I think it's a given that Apple will be caught in the shockwaves but with each move Donald Trump makes other US companies have sleepless nights. Boeing is probably one step closer to seeing Chinese orders slashed. Qualcomm may be wondering what impact this will have on its business too. If HiSilicon decides to open up availability of its second tier processors and WiFi chipsets to the wider market, things will just get much worse.

    I believe Huawei has been stockpiling certain components for a while now and increasing the amount of home grown technology in its equipment. Obviously these moves are to protect itself but they come at the cost of lost business for US companies.


    There has been little impact to US companies because it's just a matter of math.  China accounts for 2% of our economy.  We account for about 20% of theirs.  I don't US companies are all that concerned.  The media will tell you otherwise, because most of it has to make every move the Orange Man makes seem like WWIII, but it's not the case.  I think most people understand that the "trade war" is one China can't win, and that it was long past time we stood up to their international thievery.  The tariffs are a temporary measure to create leverage.  There may be some short term moderate pain, but that's about it.  
     China only accounts for 2% of our economy yet our trade deficit with them is a crisis?
    Where does that 2% come from? It’s clearly being parroted a lot around here. 
    JWSC
  • Reply 37 of 47
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    Folio said:
    Most in US might know about Chinese aggressive conversion of disputed islands, the Hong Kong and Taiwan snafus. Maybe moon landing. But how many aware of Arctic ambitions? Of giant coal plants in places like Sri Lanka and Pakistan to tie into their coal and sea lanes? 
    If the US were doing any of this it would be admirable. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 38 of 47
    davendaven Posts: 529member
    chasm said:
    I assume Mr. Trump will compensate Apple’s losses in the trade war he started out of his vast personal wealth. /s
    I know that is sarcasm but since 18% of Apple’s income is from China, Apple deserves the same welfare that farmers are getting. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 47
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/world/asia/trade-xi-jinping-trump-china-united-states.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

    It appears that Xi fucked up.



    I'm no fan of Trump, and would like to see him impeached, but good for him for holding China to what they negotiated to.

    "China’s leader, Xi Jinping, seemed confident three weeks ago that a yearlong trade war with the United States could soon subside, handing him a potent political victory.

    He even made a speech saying China would protect intellectual property, encourage foreign investment, and buy more goods and services from abroad — all changes the United States had been demanding as the countries tried to negotiate a deal.

    But just a week after that speech, Chinese negotiators sent the Americans a substantially rewritten draft agreement, prompting President Trump to accuse Beijing of reneging on terms that had been settled.

    That has left hopes for a historic breakthrough in tatters.

    In China’s top-down political system, where President Xi has amassed formidable power, it’s unlikely that anyone else would have had the authority — or, for that matter, the nerve — to fundamentally alter the emerging pact at this late date."



    On Huawei as a "private", not state supported, company;



    I've never heard of that happening with any Western company at anything close to that frequency.

    edited May 17 watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 47
    CiprolCiprol Posts: 24member
    More Americans need to understand that China is no longer the China you learnt about when you grew up. Even for the Chinese, the country is changing so rapidly that they often get lost in their own city due to massive new constructions and redevelopments, same holds true in terms of its economy and commercial/retail markets and technologies. Trump and his hawks are misleading the people into believing a trade war with China is easy to win, let alone lying to the people on who are footing the tariffs (American businesses and consumers). Cleverly handing out the largest tax cut in history and then getting all that and more back through this sneaky mechanism. It's the Americans who are being hurt and lied to. As for Apple and other major American businesses operating and earning big there in China (eg. GM and Boeing), they are bound to get hurt whether through government responses to Trump's 'extreme pressure' or sentiment within the society. To think otherwise is just naive. For two major economic powers on this planet, the choices are win-win or lose big for everyone.
    avon b7
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