$11k to get started on this duo puts it out of reach of probably 50% of professionals. Maybe 75%.
There are a lot of professional users who could benefit from a lower spec'd entry model, and great Apple display that is maybe a tad less great.
As a guy I watch on You Tube says about unusual, and sometime expensive tools:
”You may not need it most of the time, but when you need it you REALLY need it.”
the same thing here, if you don’t need it, no point in complaining about cost. But if you need it, then cost isn’t a problem.
i can’t seem to get You Tube videos linked to here, but look up Marques Brownlee on You Tube. I’ve known him for some time. Very bright and talented guy. He’s now got almost 10 million subs. He’s a high end videographer, mostly, who shoots with an 8k RED. He’s got a high end version of the new Mac Pro. Go to his channel and see his latest video. It’s an initial review of the machine. See how someone who DOES need this feels about it.
All we need now is the 10M subscribers to make the purchase viable.
Kidding with you Mel. I like Brownlee a lot too. His opinions are usually pretty well considered.
I expect Apple will sell between 50 and 150 thousand of these a year. Those are very credible numbers. If Apple thought they could sell 500 thousand a year, the price could start at about $4,000. When they were selling towers, mostly, they sold several million a year, and they started at around $2,500, but that was without inflation, so it would be around $3,000 now. But this machine is far more than those towers were, hence the higher price and shrunken market.
$11k to get started on this duo puts it out of reach of probably 50% of professionals. Maybe 75%.
There are a lot of professional users who could benefit from a lower spec'd entry model, and great Apple display that is maybe a tad less great.
As a guy I watch on You Tube says about unusual, and sometime expensive tools:
”You may not need it most of the time, but when you need it you REALLY need it.”
the same thing here, if you don’t need it, no point in complaining about cost. But if you need it, then cost isn’t a problem.
i can’t seem to get You Tube videos linked to here, but look up Marques Brownlee on You Tube. I’ve known him for some time. Very bright and talented guy. He’s now got almost 10 million subs. He’s a high end videographer, mostly, who shoots with an 8k RED. He’s got a high end version of the new Mac Pro. Go to his channel and see his latest video. It’s an initial review of the machine. See how someone who DOES need this feels about it.
All we need now is the 10M subscribers to make the purchase viable.
Kidding with you Mel. I like Brownlee a lot too. His opinions are usually pretty well considered.
I expect Apple will sell between 50 and 150 thousand of these a year. Those are very credible numbers. If Apple thought they could sell 500 thousand a year, the price could start at about $4,000. When they were selling towers, mostly, they sold several million a year, and they started at around $2,500, but that was without inflation, so it would be around $3,000 now. But this machine is far more than those towers were, hence the higher price and shrunken market.
Great video's. I prefer him over Ben from 9to5. Also funny, at 5:33 he is wishing for more USB-A ports. I think his request is valid. It only has 2 ports.
Edit: An AMD hackingtosh PCI SSD does 4GB/s, the new MP 3GB/s.
Then again, a hakingtosh doesn't support: - iMessage - Siri - FaceTime
Getting the right WiFi card does give you: - Sidecar - Continuity - Handoff
There's no mention of the MAS support.
Single core: 1331 Mac Pro: 1180 Multi core: 12760 Mac Pro: 21303 Cinebench 7422 Mac Pro: ?
philboogie said: So, maxing out the GPU option isn't going to help people running Adobe sw much(?)
Or am I misunderstanding the CPU vs GPU and Adobe software here?
Basically, Adobe software is cr*p. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of people have to use... which is why the cry for Nvidia is so great (CUDA). But, I think that is starting to change.
wizard69 said: The obsession with NVidiais a joke. They offer very little for most users.
The real problem is that far too many think this will be a fast machine but the reality is AMD trounces most Intel solutions these days. We aren’t talking modest numbers here but rather almost 2X performance. An informed buyer will not be going Mac Pro for performance.
I just haven't been in that game for too long now, but are AMD systems taken seriously among real professionals these days? I mean, as actual workstations (not building up a render farm, etc.)
There were always compatibility and other issues back when I was comparing Intel to AMD. Maybe those days are past. AMD was for the gamer/tweaker crowd. (ie. so you'd always have people raving about them in forum threads, but no real professionals were using them much.)
melgross said: so rendering a 5 minute 8k video takes 20 minutes on the new high end version of the 16” Macbook Pro. 10 minutes on a high end version of the iMac Pro, and 4 minutes on the high end version of the new Mac Pro. If you’re doing Tv work, this will save hours of rendering alone. Worth it? You bet.
You beat me to it, but for people who like visuals....
Great video's. I prefer him over Ben from 9to5. Also funny, at 5:33 he is wishing for more USB-A ports. I think his request is valid. It only has 2 ports.
Edit: An AMD hackingtosh PCI SSD does 4GB/s, the new MP 3GB/s.
Then again, a hakingtosh doesn't support: - iMessage - Siri - FaceTime
Getting the right WiFi card does give you: - Sidecar - Continuity - Handoff
There's no mention of the MAS support.
Single core: 1331 Mac Pro: 1180 Multi core: 12760 Mac Pro: 21303 Cinebench 7422 Mac Pro: ?
$3400
Yeah, I saw his video. It’s worth crap. Don’t even think about a hachintosh. No serious professional would even look at one. A major risk is that they stop working every time Apple comes out with an OS upgrade, or,even most point updates. This isn’t because Apple cares. They don’t, because there are so few around. But you can’t get all of Apple’s services, or the special chips they use. Only specific hardware works. Yes it’s cheaper, but that’s because it’s—cheaper.
by the way, you can always add a $50 card with 4 usb 3, type A connectors, as I’d did with my 2009 and 2012 Mac Pro. There’s a short slot you can use.
Great video's. I prefer him over Ben from 9to5. Also funny, at 5:33 he is wishing for more USB-A ports. I think his request is valid. It only has 2 ports.
Edit: An AMD hackingtosh PCI SSD does 4GB/s, the new MP 3GB/s.
Then again, a hakingtosh doesn't support: - iMessage - Siri - FaceTime
Getting the right WiFi card does give you: - Sidecar - Continuity - Handoff
There's no mention of the MAS support.
Single core: 1331 Mac Pro: 1180 Multi core: 12760 Mac Pro: 21303 Cinebench 7422 Mac Pro: ?
$3400
I love how people who are never in the market for such a machine jump through so many hoops to prove that some off-the-shelf build is just as good, and then you point out where it falls short they will claim those features aren't important to them.
Personally, I think for my next headless Mac I'll build my own, but that's because I want to play with what Hackintosh a decade+ after I last built one, and for a headless Mac I absolutely don't need iMessage, Siri, or FaceTime. And since Back to My Mac is no longer an option having iCloud services isn't really needed for this headless machine.
But none of that is the same as saying that the Mac Pro is crap or overpriced… only that it's not suitable for my needs. I current have a 2019 Mac mini which replaced a 2014 Mac mini for my headless Mac.
Single core: 1331 Mac Pro: 1180 Multi core: 12760 Mac Pro: 21303 Cinebench 7422 Mac Pro: ?
Cinebench is tested here after 12:00:
The 28-core Mac Pro scores 9818. This would be the $13k Mac Pro option. As a few people have mentioned, AMD has been offering great performance in their Threadripper chips.
Last year's Threadripper 2990wx scores 11812. A box with one of those can be bought for under $4k as the chip is around $1600 ( https://www.amazon.com/Adamant-32X-Core-Workstation-Computer-Threadripper/dp/B07TK21373 ). The newer 3960x scores nearly 17000 and this will be a $2k chip. The Intel chip is $7k or more for nearly half the performance. AMD is offering 6x better performance-per-dollar than Intel. No wonder the server industry has seen a big shift to buying AMD chips. The high-end Mac Pro could have been $5k cheaper with AMD CPUs.
The 56TFLOPs of GPU computing the Mac Pro offers will be great for workflows that are optimized for multi-GPUs. Any kind of video processing can benefit here as they can process a separate frame on each GPU.
I don't think a hackintosh route is needed to get better value. A lot of heavy lifting tasks like encoding and rendering can be offloaded. It would be better getting a powerful Mac to use as a front-end and have a cheaper AMD box somewhere to offload things to. Mac-specific software won't run without the macOS but any kind of processing that is cross-platform will work ok. For people on a budget that need to do some heavy processing, a Macbook Pro or iMac coupled with an AMD box for offloading would offer good value.
Single core: 1331 Mac Pro: 1180 Multi core: 12760 Mac Pro: 21303 Cinebench 7422 Mac Pro: ?
Cinebench is tested here after 12:00:
The 28-core Mac Pro scores 9818. This would be the $13k Mac Pro option. As a few people have mentioned, AMD has been offering great performance in their Threadripper chips.
Last year's Threadripper 2990wx scores 11812. A box with one of those can be bought for under $4k as the chip is around $1600 ( https://www.amazon.com/Adamant-32X-Core-Workstation-Computer-Threadripper/dp/B07TK21373 ). The newer 3960x scores nearly 17000 and this will be a $2k chip. The Intel chip is $7k or more for nearly half the performance. AMD is offering 6x better performance-per-dollar than Intel. No wonder the server industry has seen a big shift to buying AMD chips. The high-end Mac Pro could have been $5k cheaper with AMD CPUs.
The 56TFLOPs of GPU computing the Mac Pro offers will be great for workflows that are optimized for multi-GPUs. Any kind of video processing can benefit here as they can process a separate frame on each GPU.
I don't think a hackintosh route is needed to get better value. A lot of heavy lifting tasks like encoding and rendering can be offloaded. It would be better getting a powerful Mac to use as a front-end and have a cheaper AMD box somewhere to offload things to. Mac-specific software won't run without the macOS but any kind of processing that is cross-platform will work ok. For people on a budget that need to do some heavy processing, a Macbook Pro or iMac coupled with an AMD box for offloading would offer good value.
The problem for AMD is that while their sales of chips are up overall, their share of the HPC market has actually declined. This was surprising to them, and they stated that. I would not be happy if Apple moved to AMD.
An AMD hackingtosh PCI SSD does 4GB/s, the new MP 3GB/s.
Then again, a hakingtosh doesn't support: - iMessage ...
People who do that kind of stuff don't have time to mess with a hackintosh. Doing so would cost them more than the money they'd save.
You perhaps are an American, where iMessage is the preferred texting app. Over in Europe people mainly use WhatsApp. China...oh well, you get the picture.
Anyway, what professional is going to use iMessage on his audio/graphics/photography/video system? Don't they simply use their iPhone and not even bother with iCloud on their work machine?
melgross said:Yeah, I saw his video. It’s worth crap. Don’t even think about a hachintosh. No serious professional would even look at one. A major risk is that they stop working every time Apple comes out with an OS upgrade, or,even most point updates. This isn’t because Apple cares. They don’t, because there are so few around. But you can’t get all of Apple’s services, or the special chips they use. Only specific hardware works. Yes it’s cheaper, but that’s because it’s—cheaper.
by the way, you can always add a $50 card with 4 usb 3, type A connectors, as I’d did with my 2009 and 2012 Mac Pro. There’s a short slot you can use.
I agree (and wasn't trying to argue your stance, just thought posting the video would be informative)
Indeed, adding an USB-A card is super easy if needed. My mid 2010 MP has enough ports for me, but I would assume some will add a card to the 2019 model. Perhaps many.
Soli said:I love how people who are never in the market for such a machine jump through so many hoops to prove that some off-the-shelf build is just as good, and then you point out where it falls short they will claim those features aren't important to them.
Personally, I think for my next headless Mac I'll build my own, but that's because I want to play with what Hackintosh a decade+ after I last built one, and for a headless Mac I absolutely don't need iMessage, Siri, or FaceTime. And since Back to My Mac is no longer an option having iCloud services isn't really needed for this headless machine.
But none of that is the same as saying that the Mac Pro is crap or overpriced… only that it's not suitable for my needs. I current have a 2019 Mac mini which replaced a 2014 Mac mini for my headless Mac.
I forgot...yeah, you did indeed build one. I never have, but it must be fun to try nonetheless. I still am rocking my 2011 headless mini..."works as advertised". I really have no need for a faster one just to watch some downloaded stuff in the living.
Single core: 1331 Mac Pro: 1180 Multi core: 12760 Mac Pro: 21303 Cinebench 7422 Mac Pro: ?
Cinebench is tested here after 12:00:
youtube . com /watch?v=CUFB8xVJ9iM
The 28-core Mac Pro scores 9818. This would be the $13k Mac Pro option. As a few people have mentioned, AMD has been offering great performance in their Threadripper chips.
Last year's Threadripper 2990wx scores 11812. A box with one of those can be bought for under $4k as the chip is around $1600 ( https://www.amazon.com/Adamant-32X-Core-Workstation-Computer-Threadripper/dp/B07TK21373 ). The newer 3960x scores nearly 17000 and this will be a $2k chip. The Intel chip is $7k or more for nearly half the performance. AMD is offering 6x better performance-per-dollar than Intel. No wonder the server industry has seen a big shift to buying AMD chips. The high-end Mac Pro could have been $5k cheaper with AMD CPUs.
The 56TFLOPs of GPU computing the Mac Pro offers will be great for workflows that are optimized for multi-GPUs. Any kind of video processing can benefit here as they can process a separate frame on each GPU.
I don't think a hackintosh route is needed to get better value. A lot of heavy lifting tasks like encoding and rendering can be offloaded. It would be better getting a powerful Mac to use as a front-end and have a cheaper AMD box somewhere to offload things to. Mac-specific software won't run without the macOS but any kind of processing that is cross-platform will work ok. For people on a budget that need to do some heavy processing, a Macbook Pro or iMac coupled with an AMD box for offloading would offer good value.
philboogie said: You perhaps are an American, where iMessage is the preferred texting app. Over in Europe people mainly use WhatsApp. China...oh well, you get the picture.
Anyway, what professional is going to use iMessage on his audio/graphics/photography/video system? Don't they simply use their iPhone and not even bother with iCloud on their work machine?
Sorry, maybe the way I clipped that off made you think I was talking about iMessage. I meant in general, pros aren't messing with trying to build and keep Hackintoshes running.
Sorry, maybe the way I clipped that off made you think I was talking about iMessage. I meant in general, pros aren't messing with trying to build and keep Hackintoshes running.
Ah, yes, I agree. No, of course they don't build a machine themselves. They focus on their work, not their tools.
Comments
https://www.statista.com/statistics/755629/global-quarterly-market-share-workstation-vendors/
Edit:
An AMD hackingtosh PCI SSD does 4GB/s, the new MP 3GB/s.
Then again, a hakingtosh doesn't support:
- iMessage
- Siri
- FaceTime
Getting the right WiFi card does give you:
- Sidecar
- Continuity
- Handoff
There's no mention of the MAS support.
Single core: 1331 Mac Pro: 1180
Multi core: 12760 Mac Pro: 21303
Cinebench 7422 Mac Pro: ?
$3400
I just haven't been in that game for too long now, but are AMD systems taken seriously among real professionals these days? I mean, as actual workstations (not building up a render farm, etc.)
There were always compatibility and other issues back when I was comparing Intel to AMD. Maybe those days are past. AMD was for the gamer/tweaker crowd. (ie. so you'd always have people raving about them in forum threads, but no real professionals were using them much.)
No doubt... just need 9,999,978 more or something like that. I guess I'll have to wait a few more months.
People who do that kind of stuff don't have time to mess with a hackintosh. Doing so would cost them more than the money they'd save.
Let those numbers sink in for a bit.
by the way, you can always add a $50 card with 4 usb 3, type A connectors, as I’d did with my 2009 and 2012 Mac Pro. There’s a short slot you can use.
Personally, I think for my next headless Mac I'll build my own, but that's because I want to play with what Hackintosh a decade+ after I last built one, and for a headless Mac I absolutely don't need iMessage, Siri, or FaceTime. And since Back to My Mac is no longer an option having iCloud services isn't really needed for this headless machine.
But none of that is the same as saying that the Mac Pro is crap or overpriced… only that it's not suitable for my needs. I current have a 2019 Mac mini which replaced a 2014 Mac mini for my headless Mac.
The 28-core Mac Pro scores 9818. This would be the $13k Mac Pro option. As a few people have mentioned, AMD has been offering great performance in their Threadripper chips.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3453946/amd-threadripper-3970x-review-32-cores-of-unbeatable-power.html
Last year's Threadripper 2990wx scores 11812. A box with one of those can be bought for under $4k as the chip is around $1600 ( https://www.amazon.com/Adamant-32X-Core-Workstation-Computer-Threadripper/dp/B07TK21373 ). The newer 3960x scores nearly 17000 and this will be a $2k chip. The Intel chip is $7k or more for nearly half the performance. AMD is offering 6x better performance-per-dollar than Intel. No wonder the server industry has seen a big shift to buying AMD chips. The high-end Mac Pro could have been $5k cheaper with AMD CPUs.
The 56TFLOPs of GPU computing the Mac Pro offers will be great for workflows that are optimized for multi-GPUs. Any kind of video processing can benefit here as they can process a separate frame on each GPU.
I don't think a hackintosh route is needed to get better value. A lot of heavy lifting tasks like encoding and rendering can be offloaded. It would be better getting a powerful Mac to use as a front-end and have a cheaper AMD box somewhere to offload things to. Mac-specific software won't run without the macOS but any kind of processing that is cross-platform will work ok. For people on a budget that need to do some heavy processing, a Macbook Pro or iMac coupled with an AMD box for offloading would offer good value.
Anyway, what professional is going to use iMessage on his audio/graphics/photography/video system? Don't they simply use their iPhone and not even bother with iCloud on their work machine?
I agree (and wasn't trying to argue your stance, just thought posting the video would be informative)
Indeed, adding an USB-A card is super easy if needed. My mid 2010 MP has enough ports for me, but I would assume some will add a card to the 2019 model. Perhaps many.
I forgot...yeah, you did indeed build one. I never have, but it must be fun to try nonetheless. I still am rocking my 2011 headless mini..."works as advertised". I really have no need for a faster one just to watch some downloaded stuff in the living.
Very informative; thank you.