Apple design chief Jony Ive to depart later this year, create new studio with Apple as cli...

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  • Reply 141 of 186
    michelb76michelb76 Posts: 658member
    tzeshan said:
    A design is not an art. A design has to fit on a useful thing. This is what Ive missed after the passing of Jobs. 
    If you think Apple designs don’t follow function, you haven’t been paying attention. 
    Exactly. First wake up the touchbar before you can press the key you want. Makes sense. /s
    kestral
  • Reply 142 of 186
    michelb76michelb76 Posts: 658member

    AI_lias said:
    Good riddance. Maybe the ports will come back now, and better keyboards, upgradeability, repairability, and other common sense things that left lately. Sounds funny how he was the top design officer, but people think he shouldn’t be held accountable for all design decisions. 
    None of that is going to happen obviously. Why would Apple completely change business model?
  • Reply 143 of 186
    michelb76michelb76 Posts: 658member
    This might be best for Ive as I really don't think his heart is in software. Now is a good time to promote someone internally or hire someone who has used Apple's products professionally, and then fix them.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 144 of 186
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member
    Does that mean no more of his smarmy voice overs on a new iPhone roll out? 
  • Reply 145 of 186
    MKMcMKMc Posts: 14member
    I think he probably got bored to death with designing for Apple. I mean, the iPhone and iPad have reached their ultimate design goals, i.e. to be a thin edge-to-edge glass touch surface - not much more scope for design there - it's all going to be internals and software from now on. The MacBook Pro design iterations are minimal. And the Mac Pro is back to being a tower and screen. I think he's spreading his wings - a designer can't be very satisfied with changing button positions, screen sizes, ports and "thinness" - there has to be more to sink ones teeth into.
    macplusplus
  • Reply 146 of 186
    kimberlykimberly Posts: 434member
    chasm said:
    I don't see this as any big deal at all. Ive did exactly what Jobs did: built a great team that can do the job. After 30 years, it is entirely normal and natural to let some fresh(er) blood take the reins, and Evans, Alan, and Jeff will both carry on the fine work Ive did and expand on it with new thinking.

    Ive has done exceptional work and pretty much perfected the iMac, Mac mini, and iPhone/iPad designs. He was bound to retire at some point, having become incredibly rich doing such a great job for Apple, or explore other options while keeping Apple close. I'd much rather this than for him to die at his desk in another 30 years' time because a few fanboys who are afraid of change (um ... if you don't like change, Apple's really not the company for you) refused to let him leave.
    Well stated.
    macplusplus
  • Reply 147 of 186
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member

    "While I will not be an [Apple] employee, I will still be very involved -- I hope for many, many years to come," Ive said in an interview.
    Jony Ive will still work with Apple, but it will require a special adapter 

    (shamelessly stolen from )
  • Reply 148 of 186
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member
    Well the other human ‘icon’ of Apple is gone (leaving the firm, not dead!) paving the way for Apple to become even more of a plain grey, monolithic corporation like Microsoft or IBM. The natural progression of things I suppose...a boring Apple?
    edited June 2019 kestral
  • Reply 149 of 186
    uraharaurahara Posts: 733member
    mindwaves said:
    I appreciate this man's work, but the MBP is an abomination, especially the 15''. Stop making the keys so flat (which is part of his design, form over function) and do something else on the keyboard that will add something that doesn't look like a giant slab of metal (the Touch Bar doesn't help at all also with this). Love your work on the new Mac Pro, though and the iPhone 4 and the iMacs.
    I love the keyboard on MBP from year 2018. Love it. Best keyboard I ever used. Love the flatness and how the clickiness feels.

    I guess you version of 'something else' (you actually just complain, but do not offer the solution) is something what I probobly won't like.
    macplusplusfastasleep
  • Reply 150 of 186
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,884member
    He had high points and low points like everybody else. The last few years have seen the overall design philosophy going in the opposite direction to where I would like to see it going, so this news might represent a minor change in direction. It will take time for any possible changes to float up to the surface though.

    Since 2016 (MBP refresh) and the rumours of 'stealth/bomber' discussions, I have thought that there was some kind of conflict within Apple on which direction to take.

    I still hold out hope for a return of 'cheaper', more upgradeable/repairable Macs.

    All it takes is a change in philosophy.

    I reached a point where I thought Ive had become his own caricature. All the 'staring into space' commentary, spaced out delivery.

    Overall, plenty of hits but also plenty of misses and we still have that awful sharp edge on the bottom case indent to open the lid.
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 151 of 186
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    AI_lias said:
    Good riddance. Maybe the ports will come back now, and better keyboards, upgradeability, repairability, and other common sense things that left lately. Sounds funny how he was the top design officer, but people think he shouldn’t be held accountable for all design decisions. 

    Apple was already getting rid of upgradeability when Steve Jobs was still around. Decisions on upgradeability, ports etc. don’t just come from designers. Even the whole so-called obsession with thinness. Let’s not forget it was Steve Jobs who announced the MacBook Air by pulling it out of a Manila envelope and spent most of the intro talking about how thin it was. Oh and as far as repairability and upgradeability...go read an iFixit review of a Microsoft Surface product. They get lower scores than Apple products. Yet for some reason Microsoft doesn’t get nearly the grief Apple does.
    macplusplusmacxpresstmay
  • Reply 152 of 186
    kamiltonkamilton Posts: 283member
    spice-boy said:
    No matter how great many of the Ive era designs have been.... I am looking forward to see what the next generation of designers will do beyond the strict minimalist Ive aesthetic.  
    Me too!  The Ive fixation on thin has hampered MBP design.  My hunch is the new Mac Pro is the first indication of post-Ive design. I returned a new 13” MBP last week.  Going to wait another year. 

    Jony had a hell of a run, but AAPL needs a new design ethos 
  • Reply 153 of 186
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,437member
    AI_lias said:
    Good riddance. Maybe the ports will come back now, and better keyboards, upgradeability, repairability, and other common sense things that left lately. Sounds funny how he was the top design officer, but people think he shouldn’t be held accountable for all design decisions. 

    Apple was already getting rid of upgradeability when Steve Jobs was still around. Decisions on upgradeability, ports etc. don’t just come from designers. Even the whole so-called obsession with thinness. Let’s not forget it was Steve Jobs who announced the MacBook Air by pulling it out of a Manila envelope and spent most of the intro talking about how thin it was. Oh and as far as repairability and upgradeability...go read an iFixit review of a Microsoft Surface product. They get lower scores than Apple products. Yet for some reason Microsoft doesn’t get nearly the grief Apple does.
    Phil Schiller is Apple's Completely Invisible Senior Vice President, apparently. 

    The fact that most of the commenters are complaining about marketing, not Industrial Design, and yet blaming Ive for all errors and omissions, is telling. 
    macplusplus
  • Reply 154 of 186
    Sanctum1972Sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member
    mattinoz said:
    Well Apple does know how to keep secrets. I still think all these hot takes of [insert Apple product I don’t like here] is because of Ive is a little too simplistic. John Gruber was pretty scathing in his blog post. But if you read the New Yorker profile it’s clear Ive never wanted the role of “THE product guy” at Apple. It’s everyone else crowned him that person.
    He is now one of the two most powerful people in the world’s most valuable company. He sometimes listens to CNBC Radio on his hour-long commute from San Francisco to Apple’s offices, in Silicon Valley, but he’s uncomfortable knowing that a hundred thousand Apple employees rely on his decision-making—his taste—and that a sudden announcement of his retirement would ambush Apple shareholders. (To take a number: a ten-percent drop in Apple’s valuation represents seventy-one billion dollars.) According to Laurene Powell Jobs, Steve Jobs’s widow, who is close to Ive and his family, “Jony’s an artist with an artist’s temperament, and he’d be the first to tell you artists aren’t supposed to be responsible for this kind of thing.” https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-come
    It seems pretty clear with his working on Apple Campus and Apple Stores that he was getting bored designing computers. Which makes me wonder just how much he was involved in things like the butterfly keyboard. I doubt he spent much time at all on software design. I do wonder what will happen now. Surely Jeff Williams overseeing his teams is temporary. But I wonder if they’ll put the human interface team under software engineering and the industrial designers under hardware engineering and get rid of the CDO position for good.
     I expect that position to be phased out for good. After all, the Chief Design Officer position is not very common so in that sense, he had one foot inside Apple and the other foot outside of it. And yes, boredom does happen when creative burnout occurs. I'm sure he'll do some contractual work for Apple time to time but when it comes to some of the work, I suspect the internal design team will keep it in-house for NDA purposes. The allure of going independent as a designer or creative is very strong even though he claimed that his work with Apple is not done even though with some limits so that he can juggle between clients. The signs of him wanting to get the F out were there.

    I'm curious, what were the signs? I never saw any.

    I think it goes way back some time after Jobs passed away and Jony didn't have much of a sounding board from someone who speaks on his wavelength. And when Apple apparently brought Marc Newson on board, it was for that reason and to deal with the Apple Watch design and probably a few other things just so that Ive's creative juices continue to flow. So I get that and know what it's like to create without having some critique or feedback. 

    Fast forward to the iPhone 6 and then on with the same design language, along with the MacBooks. Even iMacs. They seemed to not have changed much but only to a small degree. It's as if Joy was sitting there content with the design and focused on side projects outside of Apple such as the Christmas Tree, Holga(?) camera redesign for auctioning, a chair ( if I recall ), and several other things that seemed to take up his time along with the Apple Park planning. It was as if he was twiddling his thumbs, itching to do things outside of Apple's scope. 

    And then the next signs were Angela Arendts exit and the industrial design team members which was a big hit. It was right there is when I smelled a big exit is in the making. If I were Jony and I see a bunch of my close design colleagues leaving Apple Park, life would get very lonely and seeing all new faces there would probably make things worse. It's that sense of creative isolation that probably drove him to decide that and also he did mention wanting to go back to England/UK. It would make sense for Jony to follow them that way.
    Well, the other take is there could be a new guard making waves internally, the old guard are moving aside to make room, enjoy their cash horde and do something different feeling like they are leaving in good hands.  Given most are walking away with a fair bit of their own reward tied tothe  share value you'd have to think they have some confidence or wouldn't make way.

    Looking forward to it, hoping it's a sign that team have something in waiting in the wings ready to release as a test to see if their boss takes the CDO chair.
    Could even be two things given there are two people noted as now working direct with the C-level team I assume as a test to see who belongs at the table.
    I still believe the CDO job will get phased out as a likely scenario because it's not a very common position. Sure other companies have a CDO but considering what I've read and heard within the creative industry, there was a survey and study that CDO has been viewed as a less common gig where as the role of Art Director, or in a similar level to the head of, say, Industrial Design department, seem to be the most commonly seen and sought after. 

    I get the feeling that they want Evans and the other person to stay as heads of their respective departments so they answer to Jeff Williams alone. It looks like they won't answer to Cook like Ive used to, this time around. 

    And this got me thinking. WHY Jeff Williams and not Cook? It's as if he's inheriting that responsibility and is about to get promoted to CEO in the future. It's like as if Cook is handing off that burden to Williams by saying ' Okay Williams. It's your spotlight now.  I'm preparing to put my foot out the door soon. You know what to do. '. It's got that ' I'm getting the F out of here ' vibe to me. 
  • Reply 155 of 186
    Sanctum1972Sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member

    Well Apple does know how to keep secrets. I still think all these hot takes of [insert Apple product I don’t like here] is because of Ive is a little too simplistic. John Gruber was pretty scathing in his blog post. But if you read the New Yorker profile it’s clear Ive never wanted the role of “THE product guy” at Apple. It’s everyone else crowned him that person.
    He is now one of the two most powerful people in the world’s most valuable company. He sometimes listens to CNBC Radio on his hour-long commute from San Francisco to Apple’s offices, in Silicon Valley, but he’s uncomfortable knowing that a hundred thousand Apple employees rely on his decision-making—his taste—and that a sudden announcement of his retirement would ambush Apple shareholders. (To take a number: a ten-percent drop in Apple’s valuation represents seventy-one billion dollars.) According to Laurene Powell Jobs, Steve Jobs’s widow, who is close to Ive and his family, “Jony’s an artist with an artist’s temperament, and he’d be the first to tell you artists aren’t supposed to be responsible for this kind of thing.” https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-come
    It seems pretty clear with his working on Apple Campus and Apple Stores that he was getting bored designing computers. Which makes me wonder just how much he was involved in things like the butterfly keyboard. I doubt he spent much time at all on software design. I do wonder what will happen now. Surely Jeff Williams overseeing his teams is temporary. But I wonder if they’ll put the human interface team under software engineering and the industrial designers under hardware engineering and get rid of the CDO position for good.
     I expect that position to be phased out for good. After all, the Chief Design Officer position is not very common so in that sense, he had one foot inside Apple and the other foot outside of it. And yes, boredom does happen when creative burnout occurs. I'm sure he'll do some contractual work for Apple time to time but when it comes to some of the work, I suspect the internal design team will keep it in-house for NDA purposes. The allure of going independent as a designer or creative is very strong even though he claimed that his work with Apple is not done even though with some limits so that he can juggle between clients. The signs of him wanting to get the F out were there.

    I'm curious, what were the signs? I never saw any.

    I think it goes way back some time after Jobs passed away and Jony didn't have much of a sounding board from someone who speaks on his wavelength. And when Apple apparently brought Marc Newson on board, it was for that reason and to deal with the Apple Watch design and probably a few other things just so that Ive's creative juices continue to flow. So I get that and know what it's like to create without having some critique or feedback. 

    Fast forward to the iPhone 6 and then on with the same design language, along with the MacBooks. Even iMacs. They seemed to not have changed much but only to a small degree. It's as if Joy was sitting there content with the design and focused on side projects outside of Apple such as the Christmas Tree, Holga(?) camera redesign for auctioning, a chair ( if I recall ), and several other things that seemed to take up his time along with the Apple Park planning. It was as if he was twiddling his thumbs, itching to do things outside of Apple's scope. 

    And then the next signs were Angela Arendts exit and the industrial design team members which was a big hit. It was right there is when I smelled a big exit is in the making. If I were Jony and I see a bunch of my close design colleagues leaving Apple Park, life would get very lonely and seeing all new faces there would probably make things worse. It's that sense of creative isolation that probably drove him to decide that and also he did mention wanting to go back to England/UK. It would make sense for Jony to follow them that way.

    I disagree with 3rd party projects taking a lot of time. Wasn't the Christmas tree like a weekend project?

    The part with his close collaborators leaving makes sense. Why do people give Ahrendts so much credit now? She was bashed the most.
    I believe it was a XMas project in London? As for his side projects, I think when one works at at company and does side projects, they both tend to take up time but it's also a sign that he may have been getting bored or is itching to get out to stretch his creativity. The signs were there. His collaborators leaving Apple is a huge indicator of him wanting to follow them out as well. It makes a lot of sense. 
  • Reply 156 of 186
    Sanctum1972Sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member
    decondos said:
    Time for him to go. Mac Pro is either hideous or coarse retro. Apple needs to try something new.
    We all have opinions and yours about the Mac Pro is comically sad. It's a beautiful piece of engineering--what it should be.
    The new Mac Pro is a step in the right direction and harkens back to the old school grater design which is the legendary G5 tower. I still have my G4 mirror drive which was a nice machine still stored in my closet. Classic. 
  • Reply 157 of 186
    Sanctum1972Sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member
    This is the best thing to happen to Apple.

    To the news of "Jony Ive leaves Apple", I can only add "Finally!"

    He is taking Marc Newsom with him - which indicates that Jony's design mistakes have finally prompted Tim Cook to cut that relationship, and go with a new group (notably the Pro Design group).

    Apple is in better hands with Jony Ive, finally!
    Right except this Pro Design Group was, and still remains inside hardware engineering. John Ternus, the guy who showed off the Mac Pro at WWDC is part of hardware engineering. The two groups that reported up through Ive are now reporting to Jeff Williams (future Apple CEO in my opinion) not hardware or software engineering.
    Yes. That's exactly what I'm thinking. That's why the heads of the Human Interface Design and Industrial Design are now answering to Williams and not Cook is suspect. Ive used to answer to the CEO directly but not anymore. This means Cook just handed off a 'hot potato' to Williams by saying ' Okay Williams. It's your turn now. I got one foot out the door and getting ready '. 

    I smell another huge exit. 

    EDIT: to be honest, I would've like Craig to be CEO. 
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 158 of 186
    Sanctum1972Sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member
    And, of course, John “get off my lawn” Gruber begins the handwringing. ߤ氟ﻦzwj;♂️

    And everyone in the tech press kissing his ass tweeting what a great piece it was. No actually it was hot garbage.
    Mark Gurman just wrote a piece detailing his scoop on Jony Ive leaving.  This part doesn't sound encouraging

    "The design team is made up of the most creative people, but now there is an operations barrier that wasn’t there before," one former Apple executive said. "People are scared to be innovative."

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/inside-apple-s-long-goodbye-to-design-chief-jony-ive

    Also, just saw a tweet mentioning how all of Tim Cook's recent selections for many key senior executive positions have operations backgrounds.  Coincidence? I think not.


    THAT tweet is disturbing. If confirmed that he placed his own 'operations' folks in various departments, there could be more headaches coming. 
    kestraldblanch369
  • Reply 159 of 186
    kestralkestral Posts: 310member
    macgui said:

    apple ][ said:
    That certainly explains the lack of the typical Ives' narrated design video for the upcoming Mac Pro during the recent WWDC. Certainly felt a little unusual without his vocal presence at that event.
    Nope, Ives narrates the video about the Mac Pro.

    It just wasn't shown on the keynote.

    It's on Apple's youtube channel.
    Thanks for that!


    Reminds me of this


  • Reply 160 of 186
    kestralkestral Posts: 310member
    I see all these tech writers out there praising John Gruber’s post about this. I don’t see what’s so great about it. It’s quite nasty, especially the part where he complains about the FT using the title “Sir”. Not professional at all.
    John Gruber is the biggest Apple sycophant out there. The fact that he finally said something "nasty" is huge.
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