I replaced my Mac with my iPad Pro for a week -- here's how it went

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    tht said:
    These are many of the reasons I say that the best way to use an iPad is flat on table, when at a table
    Agree 100% and why one of the priorities for the next update of the ipad pro should be to get rid of that nonsensical camera bump.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 46
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,663member
    melgross said:

    crowley said:
    talexy said:
    Whow. This sounds like a seriously beaten up Macbook Pro. And it can't be older than 4 years, given you mentioned the USB-C port. Either the quality of the latest MBP line is really not that good, or your way of handling it is pretty rough.

    I thought the same thing.  USB ports coming loose?  My 6 year old MacBook Air hasn't had anything like that litany of problems.  Going some way to putting me off upgrading.
    It’s easy to mess up present day ports on any device. Sadly, the rush to small and cheap has lead to tiny ports and plugs that are not really made for heavy use insofar as plugging and unplugging is concerned. Additionally, pulling on cables weakens and loosens them too. I’ve seem people pick up drives with a short cable attached that picks the end of the computer up with it before they realize they’ve done it. That damages the cable and port.

    in the “Old” days of computing, ports were large, sturdy metal, as were connectors, with screws used to secure them. The ports were attached to the frame of the device with screws in addition to being soldered to a board.

    I'm not surprised that someone doing what he does for a living has damaged his computer after 4 years. I’m surprised it lasted this long,  because those problems with ports usually indicate lack of care in handling a device. And a lot of people who consider their devices to just be “tools” treat them that way, though many don’t realize they’re doing it.

    The other thing I noticed was that his video chip started failing. What??? 

    This is another reason why I miss the MagSafe for charging. It was simply a better connector that was designed for charging, rather than using a connector that is just capable of chagring, like USB C

    melgross said:

    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    What kind of “inspecting” do you need to do? Tapping on a name in the address field gives you the address. Tapping on the “I” gives you the entire contact. What else are you needing?

    text selection isn’t equal, but it’s not bad. Maybe you’re still using iOS 12, because 13 does make an improvement, from my experience.
    Mail for iOS is not on par with Mail for MacOS and there are many things you cannot do on an iPad. Showing headers and text bullets are two examples off the top fo my head.

    A few years ago I tried to use my 12" iPad Pro as a replacement for my iPad Air and I gave up after a month. I could get most stuff I needed to done, but much of it was more difficult, cumbersome and inefficient. iOS has made significant strides since then and I think it's closer now - very close. I wish Apple had made the push to get iOS (or iPadOS) up to snuff sooner. The hardware has been ready much before the software was.
    edited July 15 dysamoria
  • Reply 23 of 46
    benjerbenjer Posts: 90member
    I use a mid-2012  MacBook Pro for work. Since my job primarily involves “office“ type tasks (so no heavy video editing or anything), I have thought about getting an iPad Pro as my sole work computer when the MBP kicks the bucket. I can’t think of a single task I do that absolutely couldn’t be done on an iPad Pro, though some workflows would certainly take some getting used to. However, I often use a second monitor with my MBP, and I think I’d miss the ability to do that while sitting at my desk.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 46
    The software available for the iPad is still not up to par with that for the Mac. Microsoft’s iOS-based Office suite has serious limitations as do most of Adobe’s products. The gap is being closed it’s true (Adobe’s announcement of a soon-to-be-released full Photoshop version for iOS will be interesting) but it’s still a significant gap for all but the simplest of tasks. That said, I’ve adapted my working style and stopped carrying my MacBook Pro around quite a while ago as the iPad Pro covers most of what I need to do during the day (consulting work - heavy on email, note taking and researching) while having a better battery life and 4G internet access. I rely on the mighty 27” 5K iMac at home to do my photograph processing, sound engineering and video work along with working with complex Excel and Word files. The MacBook Pro rarely gets a run. Obviously, everyone works differently and not everyone can adapt as readily as I have. The best thing about current and future technology is the choices available and their interoperability which is constantly improving.
    dysamoriamacpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 46
    I think you did yourself a disservice by installing beta software on a work device. Sure the features sound good, but it’s not ready for prime time and you made more issues for yourself than you needed to. 

    You should have left the iPad at it’s current OS and see if you could have gotten some work done without handing to switch apps. 

    Have you tried restoring your iPad to the current OS and tried your workflow again? 
    In fairness, you should to show how many of your issues are related to the beta and how many of them are related to using a device instead of a computer. 
    dysamoriaSpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 46
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,283member
    talexy said:
    Whow. This sounds like a seriously beaten up Macbook Pro. And it can't be older than 4 years, given you mentioned the USB-C port. Either the quality of the latest MBP line is really not that good, or your way of handling it is pretty rough.

    I came here to say exactly this. 
  • Reply 27 of 46
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,283member
    tht said:
    ...

    Day 5

    ...
    As I started to restore my Mac and get it back up to snuff, I reflected on what was working and not working with the iPad. Editing video was surprisingly doable and I actually quite enjoyed using LumaFusion and will use that again.

    At the same time, I felt while things weren't difficult and doable, they took a bit more time than they did on my Mac. Little things like the space inserted in pasting text. I did try using a mouse with the iPad and iOS 13 but it still wasn't as smooth as experience as I had hoped.

    I also felt like I kept having to jump in and out of apps more than simply being in them all at once like on my Mac.

    Still, using my iPad Pro as a daily driver was refreshing. It was a different way of looking at things and the platform shows a lot of promise. For full video editing, I'm not 100-percent ready to give up my Mac but with the latest hardware and iOS 13, Apple is getting remarkably close to getting there. Perhaps next year will finally bridge the gap.
    Why didn’t you use the Pencil to quickly select and remove  those extra spaces? Since this is professional work a Pencil is justified. Besides, you can also replace all those “ )” in Pages, then paste the whole text again in your editor.

    You don’t have to jump in and out of apps, just use the four-finger swipe to navigate between open iPad apps. On the Mac you are still in and out of apps since you must activate a window by clicking. Or you assign open applications to different desktops to swipe between them. As such, both macOS and iOS are similar in switching open apps.

    You can also offload some of your video work to your iPad Pro since that beast doesn’t have temperature issues like computers with fans. Running your MBP mostly in max temperature will shorten its life, like any laptop.
    These are many of the reasons I say that the best way to use an iPad is flat on table, when at a table, or flat on your lap. By configuring an iPad like a laptop, it makes it harder to use the biggest advantages of using a tablet: multi-touch gestures and Pencil input. The software keyboard takes practice to be proficient at, and Apple needs to improve it too by at least adding meta and arrow keys, but I think people can enter text with the software keyboard well, while being able to manipulate the iPad with multi-touch and Pencil really well who’ll flat.

    When propped vertical while using a hardware keyboard, multi-touch and Pencil input is going to be cumbersome. If I was using a hardware keyboard, I’d just lay the iPad flat just behind the keyboard.
    Flat on a table eliminates the Smart Keyboard and is awkward to use. Frankly, the iPad OS is still extremely poor with keyboard support.
  • Reply 28 of 46
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,283member
    rcfa said:
    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    Nah, you're just on drugs. I can't get any business done on my TV set, but I can do a whole lot on my iPad Pro. Sorry you don't seem to know how to use it for the jobs to be done.
    Your comment is jerkish. Please learn how to offer critical commentary without making ad hominem attacks and irrelevant character assassination commentary.
    Sanctum1972MplsPgatorguy
  • Reply 29 of 46
    I’ve been using my ‘18 iPad Pro 12.9” as my daily driver, with the Apple Folio Keyboard and Pencil, for quite a while, now. I’ve adjusted quite well, and rarely miss an actual computer. There are still a couple tasks that the iPad just can’t handle, but it isn’t often I have that issue. I never thought I’d be able to live with just an iPad for nearly everything I do. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 46
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,663member
    dysamoria said:
    rcfa said:
    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    Nah, you're just on drugs. I can't get any business done on my TV set, but I can do a whole lot on my iPad Pro. Sorry you don't seem to know how to use it for the jobs to be done.
    Your comment is jerkish. Please learn how to offer critical commentary without making ad hominem attacks and irrelevant character assassination commentary.
    He’s probably the biggest fanboy on this site. Any comment remotely critical of Apple is akin to blasphemy, and sometimes the only way to counter it is to dismiss the commenter as an idiot, blame them, because they’re clearly using it wrong, or to claim that they made things up. (When the people reported the HomePod was leaving a mark on their furniture, I think he blamed them for getting the wrong furniture.)

    As for the iPad, you can do a lot with it, but you also run into things that either can’t be done or are very clumsy, difficult or inefficient to do on a regular basis. After spending $1500 for an iPad, pencil and keyboard, it’s frustrating to be stymied by the OS design and need to pull out a ‘real’ computer on a regular basis. 
  • Reply 31 of 46
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,399member
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    Define serious work. The latest iPad Pro 12.9” does everything I throw at it. Cannot wait for iOS 13 making the iPad Pro even more of a computer.
    Exactly. Ever since my mid-2010 iMac kicked the bucket lo, these many months ago, I’ve been using my iPad Pro for everything, split between my iPhone. I’m not doing the same Adobe-based work I used to do, so that helps, but even so... I’m getting things done.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 46
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,138member
    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    Yeh,  think that's consistent with everything I have seen, heard and read about using an iPad as a laptop replacement:
    -- Those who defend the iPad are mostly focusing on content, pictures, video, music, etc...
    -- Those who say it is inadequate as a laptop replacement are focused on text (word processing and spreadsheets)

    And, this review seemed to confirm that:   It mostly focused on video editing and praised it while it minimized text functions and was more critical of those.

    I think Apple is addressing that issue -- but dragging it out as long as possible till they can get the Mac line back up to speed.
  • Reply 33 of 46
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,894member
    MplsP said:
    melgross said:

    crowley said:
    talexy said:
    Whow. This sounds like a seriously beaten up Macbook Pro. And it can't be older than 4 years, given you mentioned the USB-C port. Either the quality of the latest MBP line is really not that good, or your way of handling it is pretty rough.

    I thought the same thing.  USB ports coming loose?  My 6 year old MacBook Air hasn't had anything like that litany of problems.  Going some way to putting me off upgrading.
    It’s easy to mess up present day ports on any device. Sadly, the rush to small and cheap has lead to tiny ports and plugs that are not really made for heavy use insofar as plugging and unplugging is concerned. Additionally, pulling on cables weakens and loosens them too. I’ve seem people pick up drives with a short cable attached that picks the end of the computer up with it before they realize they’ve done it. That damages the cable and port.

    in the “Old” days of computing, ports were large, sturdy metal, as were connectors, with screws used to secure them. The ports were attached to the frame of the device with screws in addition to being soldered to a board.

    I'm not surprised that someone doing what he does for a living has damaged his computer after 4 years. I’m surprised it lasted this long,  because those problems with ports usually indicate lack of care in handling a device. And a lot of people who consider their devices to just be “tools” treat them that way, though many don’t realize they’re doing it.

    The other thing I noticed was that his video chip started failing. What??? 

    This is another reason why I miss the MagSafe for charging. It was simply a better connector that was designed for charging, rather than using a connector that is just capable of chagring, like USB C

    melgross said:

    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    What kind of “inspecting” do you need to do? Tapping on a name in the address field gives you the address. Tapping on the “I” gives you the entire contact. What else are you needing?

    text selection isn’t equal, but it’s not bad. Maybe you’re still using iOS 12, because 13 does make an improvement, from my experience.
    Mail for iOS is not on par with Mail for MacOS and there are many things you cannot do on an iPad. Showing headers and text bullets are two examples off the top fo my head.

    A few years ago I tried to use my 12" iPad Pro as a replacement for my iPad Air and I gave up after a month. I could get most stuff I needed to done, but much of it was more difficult, cumbersome and inefficient. iOS has made significant strides since then and I think it's closer now - very close. I wish Apple had made the push to get iOS (or iPadOS) up to snuff sooner. The hardware has been ready much before the software was.
    All talk about the ipad must now include iPadOS and iOS 13, which by itself, improves the experience.

    talking about what the iPad was years ago is now meaningless. We can go and talk about System 1, or OS X 1.0. But why? Let’s concentrate on the new iPadOS, which itself is version .8, not even 1.0.

    if you mistake the things you’re mistaking, you’ll never get anywhere. No one is saying that the iPad does exactly what the Mac does, or that it’s equal in every way. It’s not, and people have to get over that. If they can’t, it’s their problem. Like it or not, I can do most of  what I do on a Mac, on my ipad. With iPadOS, it’s easier than ever before.

    thats Win 10 matters. If you have problems understanding that they are different, then you’ll never use it effectively, because you’ll be constantly complaining on what it doesn’t do, rather than what it does do.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 46
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,663member
    melgross said:
    MplsP said:
    melgross said:

    crowley said:
    talexy said:
    Whow. This sounds like a seriously beaten up Macbook Pro. And it can't be older than 4 years, given you mentioned the USB-C port. Either the quality of the latest MBP line is really not that good, or your way of handling it is pretty rough.

    I thought the same thing.  USB ports coming loose?  My 6 year old MacBook Air hasn't had anything like that litany of problems.  Going some way to putting me off upgrading.
    It’s easy to mess up present day ports on any device. Sadly, the rush to small and cheap has lead to tiny ports and plugs that are not really made for heavy use insofar as plugging and unplugging is concerned. Additionally, pulling on cables weakens and loosens them too. I’ve seem people pick up drives with a short cable attached that picks the end of the computer up with it before they realize they’ve done it. That damages the cable and port.

    in the “Old” days of computing, ports were large, sturdy metal, as were connectors, with screws used to secure them. The ports were attached to the frame of the device with screws in addition to being soldered to a board.

    I'm not surprised that someone doing what he does for a living has damaged his computer after 4 years. I’m surprised it lasted this long,  because those problems with ports usually indicate lack of care in handling a device. And a lot of people who consider their devices to just be “tools” treat them that way, though many don’t realize they’re doing it.

    The other thing I noticed was that his video chip started failing. What??? 

    This is another reason why I miss the MagSafe for charging. It was simply a better connector that was designed for charging, rather than using a connector that is just capable of chagring, like USB C

    melgross said:

    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    What kind of “inspecting” do you need to do? Tapping on a name in the address field gives you the address. Tapping on the “I” gives you the entire contact. What else are you needing?

    text selection isn’t equal, but it’s not bad. Maybe you’re still using iOS 12, because 13 does make an improvement, from my experience.
    Mail for iOS is not on par with Mail for MacOS and there are many things you cannot do on an iPad. Showing headers and text bullets are two examples off the top fo my head.

    A few years ago I tried to use my 12" iPad Pro as a replacement for my iPad Air and I gave up after a month. I could get most stuff I needed to done, but much of it was more difficult, cumbersome and inefficient. iOS has made significant strides since then and I think it's closer now - very close. I wish Apple had made the push to get iOS (or iPadOS) up to snuff sooner. The hardware has been ready much before the software was.
    All talk about the ipad must now include iPadOS and iOS 13, which by itself, improves the experience.

    talking about what the iPad was years ago is now meaningless. We can go and talk about System 1, or OS X 1.0. But why? Let’s concentrate on the new iPadOS, which itself is version .8, not even 1.0.

    if you mistake the things you’re mistaking, you’ll never get anywhere. No one is saying that the iPad does exactly what the Mac does, or that it’s equal in every way. It’s not, and people have to get over that. If they can’t, it’s their problem. Like it or not, I can do most of  what I do on a Mac, on my ipad. With iPadOS, it’s easier than ever before.

    thats Win 10 matters. If you have problems understanding that they are different, then you’ll never use it effectively, because you’ll be constantly complaining on what it doesn’t do, rather than what it does do.
    You’re absolutely right - looking what one could do with iOS 3 is disingenuous and like judging a mac based on OS 10.0. I’m basing my comments on iOS 12.3 - the latest official version and what I have installed. iOS 13 promises more improvements, which is great, but it’s still in beta and not officially released. When it is released I’ll install it (actually, I’ll wait to install 13.0.1, or whatever the first bug release is) and see. 

    I’m not sure I’m mistaking anything - I’m just not basing my opinion on an unreleased operating system. I understand they are different; sometimes those differences are good, but when they interfere with getting work done they’re a problem. Like I said, the hardware is more than capable and Apple has been making steady improvements in iOS to let it use those capabilities. They’ve just been a bit behind the curve compared to the hardware.

    “Thats Win 10 matters” - ??? Was that a typo?
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 35 of 46
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,138member
    melgross said:
    MplsP said:
    melgross said:

    crowley said:
    talexy said:
    Whow. This sounds like a seriously beaten up Macbook Pro. And it can't be older than 4 years, given you mentioned the USB-C port. Either the quality of the latest MBP line is really not that good, or your way of handling it is pretty rough.

    I thought the same thing.  USB ports coming loose?  My 6 year old MacBook Air hasn't had anything like that litany of problems.  Going some way to putting me off upgrading.
    It’s easy to mess up present day ports on any device. Sadly, the rush to small and cheap has lead to tiny ports and plugs that are not really made for heavy use insofar as plugging and unplugging is concerned. Additionally, pulling on cables weakens and loosens them too. I’ve seem people pick up drives with a short cable attached that picks the end of the computer up with it before they realize they’ve done it. That damages the cable and port.

    in the “Old” days of computing, ports were large, sturdy metal, as were connectors, with screws used to secure them. The ports were attached to the frame of the device with screws in addition to being soldered to a board.

    I'm not surprised that someone doing what he does for a living has damaged his computer after 4 years. I’m surprised it lasted this long,  because those problems with ports usually indicate lack of care in handling a device. And a lot of people who consider their devices to just be “tools” treat them that way, though many don’t realize they’re doing it.

    The other thing I noticed was that his video chip started failing. What??? 

    This is another reason why I miss the MagSafe for charging. It was simply a better connector that was designed for charging, rather than using a connector that is just capable of chagring, like USB C

    melgross said:

    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    What kind of “inspecting” do you need to do? Tapping on a name in the address field gives you the address. Tapping on the “I” gives you the entire contact. What else are you needing?

    text selection isn’t equal, but it’s not bad. Maybe you’re still using iOS 12, because 13 does make an improvement, from my experience.
    Mail for iOS is not on par with Mail for MacOS and there are many things you cannot do on an iPad. Showing headers and text bullets are two examples off the top fo my head.

    A few years ago I tried to use my 12" iPad Pro as a replacement for my iPad Air and I gave up after a month. I could get most stuff I needed to done, but much of it was more difficult, cumbersome and inefficient. iOS has made significant strides since then and I think it's closer now - very close. I wish Apple had made the push to get iOS (or iPadOS) up to snuff sooner. The hardware has been ready much before the software was.
    All talk about the ipad must now include iPadOS and iOS 13, which by itself, improves the experience.

    talking about what the iPad was years ago is now meaningless. We can go and talk about System 1, or OS X 1.0. But why? Let’s concentrate on the new iPadOS, which itself is version .8, not even 1.0.

    if you mistake the things you’re mistaking, you’ll never get anywhere. No one is saying that the iPad does exactly what the Mac does, or that it’s equal in every way. It’s not, and people have to get over that. If they can’t, it’s their problem. Like it or not, I can do most of  what I do on a Mac, on my ipad. With iPadOS, it’s easier than ever before.

    thats Win 10 matters. If you have problems understanding that they are different, then you’ll never use it effectively, because you’ll be constantly complaining on what it doesn’t do, rather than what it does do.
    Yes, and I can do almost everything on my Windows 10 laptop that I can do on my Mac.  The question though is not IF but how well & how easily -- and if any limitations are intrinsic or fixable.
  • Reply 36 of 46
    thttht Posts: 3,249member
    dysamoria said:
    tht said:
    ...

    Day 5

    ...
    As I started to restore my Mac and get it back up to snuff, I reflected on what was working and not working with the iPad. Editing video was surprisingly doable and I actually quite enjoyed using LumaFusion and will use that again.

    At the same time, I felt while things weren't difficult and doable, they took a bit more time than they did on my Mac. Little things like the space inserted in pasting text. I did try using a mouse with the iPad and iOS 13 but it still wasn't as smooth as experience as I had hoped.

    I also felt like I kept having to jump in and out of apps more than simply being in them all at once like on my Mac.

    Still, using my iPad Pro as a daily driver was refreshing. It was a different way of looking at things and the platform shows a lot of promise. For full video editing, I'm not 100-percent ready to give up my Mac but with the latest hardware and iOS 13, Apple is getting remarkably close to getting there. Perhaps next year will finally bridge the gap.
    Why didn’t you use the Pencil to quickly select and remove  those extra spaces? Since this is professional work a Pencil is justified. Besides, you can also replace all those “ )” in Pages, then paste the whole text again in your editor.

    You don’t have to jump in and out of apps, just use the four-finger swipe to navigate between open iPad apps. On the Mac you are still in and out of apps since you must activate a window by clicking. Or you assign open applications to different desktops to swipe between them. As such, both macOS and iOS are similar in switching open apps.

    You can also offload some of your video work to your iPad Pro since that beast doesn’t have temperature issues like computers with fans. Running your MBP mostly in max temperature will shorten its life, like any laptop.
    These are many of the reasons I say that the best way to use an iPad is flat on table, when at a table, or flat on your lap. By configuring an iPad like a laptop, it makes it harder to use the biggest advantages of using a tablet: multi-touch gestures and Pencil input. The software keyboard takes practice to be proficient at, and Apple needs to improve it too by at least adding meta and arrow keys, but I think people can enter text with the software keyboard well, while being able to manipulate the iPad with multi-touch and Pencil really well who’ll flat.

    When propped vertical while using a hardware keyboard, multi-touch and Pencil input is going to be cumbersome. If I was using a hardware keyboard, I’d just lay the iPad flat just behind the keyboard.
    Flat on a table eliminates the Smart Keyboard and is awkward to use. Frankly, the iPad OS is still extremely poor with keyboard support.
    Obviously we disagree.

    If you have the iPad propped up, vertically, as you would with a keyboard cover, it makes using the iPad’s Touch based text manipulation, cursor control, app controls, drag and dropping harder to do. For some stuff, you are using two hands, and that’s even harder to do with an iPad propped vertically.

    The tradeoff with using a hardware keyboard has some big compromises. This is why there is such demand for mouse support as using touch while propped up is hard. If you are using it flat on a table, the need for a mouse goes away.

    Apple should be supporting all modes of input and enabling as much functionality as possible, so they should have good keyboard and pointer support, just as they should have great multi-touch UI designs. They should never have it such that it is not possible to do things with touch alone.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 37 of 46
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,907member
    tht said:
    dysamoria said:
    tht said:
    ...

    Day 5

    ...
    As I started to restore my Mac and get it back up to snuff, I reflected on what was working and not working with the iPad. Editing video was surprisingly doable and I actually quite enjoyed using LumaFusion and will use that again.

    At the same time, I felt while things weren't difficult and doable, they took a bit more time than they did on my Mac. Little things like the space inserted in pasting text. I did try using a mouse with the iPad and iOS 13 but it still wasn't as smooth as experience as I had hoped.

    I also felt like I kept having to jump in and out of apps more than simply being in them all at once like on my Mac.

    Still, using my iPad Pro as a daily driver was refreshing. It was a different way of looking at things and the platform shows a lot of promise. For full video editing, I'm not 100-percent ready to give up my Mac but with the latest hardware and iOS 13, Apple is getting remarkably close to getting there. Perhaps next year will finally bridge the gap.
    Why didn’t you use the Pencil to quickly select and remove  those extra spaces? Since this is professional work a Pencil is justified. Besides, you can also replace all those “ )” in Pages, then paste the whole text again in your editor.

    You don’t have to jump in and out of apps, just use the four-finger swipe to navigate between open iPad apps. On the Mac you are still in and out of apps since you must activate a window by clicking. Or you assign open applications to different desktops to swipe between them. As such, both macOS and iOS are similar in switching open apps.

    You can also offload some of your video work to your iPad Pro since that beast doesn’t have temperature issues like computers with fans. Running your MBP mostly in max temperature will shorten its life, like any laptop.
    These are many of the reasons I say that the best way to use an iPad is flat on table, when at a table, or flat on your lap. By configuring an iPad like a laptop, it makes it harder to use the biggest advantages of using a tablet: multi-touch gestures and Pencil input. The software keyboard takes practice to be proficient at, and Apple needs to improve it too by at least adding meta and arrow keys, but I think people can enter text with the software keyboard well, while being able to manipulate the iPad with multi-touch and Pencil really well who’ll flat.

    When propped vertical while using a hardware keyboard, multi-touch and Pencil input is going to be cumbersome. If I was using a hardware keyboard, I’d just lay the iPad flat just behind the keyboard.
    Flat on a table eliminates the Smart Keyboard and is awkward to use. Frankly, the iPad OS is still extremely poor with keyboard support.
    Obviously we disagree.

    If you have the iPad propped up, vertically, as you would with a keyboard cover, it makes using the iPad’s Touch based text manipulation, cursor control, app controls, drag and dropping harder to do. For some stuff, you are using two hands, and that’s even harder to do with an iPad propped vertically.

    The tradeoff with using a hardware keyboard has some big compromises. This is why there is such demand for mouse support as using touch while propped up is hard. If you are using it flat on a table, the need for a mouse goes away.

    Apple should be supporting all modes of input and enabling as much functionality as possible, so they should have good keyboard and pointer support, just as they should have great multi-touch UI designs. They should never have it such that it is not possible to do things with touch alone.
    The Pencil eliminates the need for both arrow keys and the pointer, and integrates seamlessly without disturbing the multitouch interface. Apple Marketing’s narration is wrong, the external keyboard is NOT an iPad Essential. If you say that an external keyboard is essential to iPad you kill the iPad !... Only the Pencil can be an iPad essential (if such a thing is needed) since the multitouch interface may not be well suited to precision data selection in every case.
    edited July 16 watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 46
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,894member
    MplsP said:
    melgross said:
    MplsP said:
    melgross said:

    crowley said:
    talexy said:
    Whow. This sounds like a seriously beaten up Macbook Pro. And it can't be older than 4 years, given you mentioned the USB-C port. Either the quality of the latest MBP line is really not that good, or your way of handling it is pretty rough.

    I thought the same thing.  USB ports coming loose?  My 6 year old MacBook Air hasn't had anything like that litany of problems.  Going some way to putting me off upgrading.
    It’s easy to mess up present day ports on any device. Sadly, the rush to small and cheap has lead to tiny ports and plugs that are not really made for heavy use insofar as plugging and unplugging is concerned. Additionally, pulling on cables weakens and loosens them too. I’ve seem people pick up drives with a short cable attached that picks the end of the computer up with it before they realize they’ve done it. That damages the cable and port.

    in the “Old” days of computing, ports were large, sturdy metal, as were connectors, with screws used to secure them. The ports were attached to the frame of the device with screws in addition to being soldered to a board.

    I'm not surprised that someone doing what he does for a living has damaged his computer after 4 years. I’m surprised it lasted this long,  because those problems with ports usually indicate lack of care in handling a device. And a lot of people who consider their devices to just be “tools” treat them that way, though many don’t realize they’re doing it.

    The other thing I noticed was that his video chip started failing. What??? 

    This is another reason why I miss the MagSafe for charging. It was simply a better connector that was designed for charging, rather than using a connector that is just capable of chagring, like USB C

    melgross said:

    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    What kind of “inspecting” do you need to do? Tapping on a name in the address field gives you the address. Tapping on the “I” gives you the entire contact. What else are you needing?

    text selection isn’t equal, but it’s not bad. Maybe you’re still using iOS 12, because 13 does make an improvement, from my experience.
    Mail for iOS is not on par with Mail for MacOS and there are many things you cannot do on an iPad. Showing headers and text bullets are two examples off the top fo my head.

    A few years ago I tried to use my 12" iPad Pro as a replacement for my iPad Air and I gave up after a month. I could get most stuff I needed to done, but much of it was more difficult, cumbersome and inefficient. iOS has made significant strides since then and I think it's closer now - very close. I wish Apple had made the push to get iOS (or iPadOS) up to snuff sooner. The hardware has been ready much before the software was.
    All talk about the ipad must now include iPadOS and iOS 13, which by itself, improves the experience.

    talking about what the iPad was years ago is now meaningless. We can go and talk about System 1, or OS X 1.0. But why? Let’s concentrate on the new iPadOS, which itself is version .8, not even 1.0.

    if you mistake the things you’re mistaking, you’ll never get anywhere. No one is saying that the iPad does exactly what the Mac does, or that it’s equal in every way. It’s not, and people have to get over that. If they can’t, it’s their problem. Like it or not, I can do most of  what I do on a Mac, on my ipad. With iPadOS, it’s easier than ever before.

    thats Win 10 matters. If you have problems understanding that they are different, then you’ll never use it effectively, because you’ll be constantly complaining on what it doesn’t do, rather than what it does do.
    You’re absolutely right - looking what one could do with iOS 3 is disingenuous and like judging a mac based on OS 10.0. I’m basing my comments on iOS 12.3 - the latest official version and what I have installed. iOS 13 promises more improvements, which is great, but it’s still in beta and not officially released. When it is released I’ll install it (actually, I’ll wait to install 13.0.1, or whatever the first bug release is) and see. 

    I’m not sure I’m mistaking anything - I’m just not basing my opinion on an unreleased operating system. I understand they are different; sometimes those differences are good, but when they interfere with getting work done they’re a problem. Like I said, the hardware is more than capable and Apple has been making steady improvements in iOS to let it use those capabilities. They’ve just been a bit behind the curve compared to the hardware.

    “Thats Win 10 matters” - ??? Was that a typo?
    The problem is that your opinion based on what will shortly be obsolete isn’t worth much. That’s not an insult, by the way. It’s like when we see a review of a device that’s 11 months old, and about to be replaced, compared to a review to a device that just came out. I know the old device is still in the line,  up the review has little value to those contemplating buying a new one a month later when the new one arrives.

    so remaking on how well, or how badly, 12.3 is isn’t terribly helpful when shortly, everyone with a device 5 years old, and newer, can upgrade to iOS 13 and iPadOS.

    I've been using the public betas, and while there are bugs I’ve reported, what it can now do is seriously better. I understand if you do t want to use a beta. I recommend that people not do it if they really need that device. But I think you’ll find that a lot of things that are a problem are either no longer so, or are much less of a problem. And, of course, this will be iPadOS ver. 1.0. I have no doubt that Apple is now all in on this with the ipad Gerri g it’s own team, for the first time. I expect to see really big things here over the years.

    yeah, the win 10 was an error of the text replacement. It should have been; “That’s what matters.” I have a couple of hundred. Sometimes, if you come close, it changes it, and occasionally, I don’t notice, because I use the term. So, for example, I’m writing and (AMD) here, and you see it got changed to and. I’ve got to hit the selection above the keyboard to lock it in. I don’t always notice, or remember to do that every time.

    also, what I find, here more than anywhere else, is that I can check my writing, and everything’s ok, but somehow, it gets changed when it hits the page here. So, if I notice, I’ll have to edit it. I sometimes don’t notice.
    edited July 16
  • Reply 39 of 46
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,894member

    melgross said:
    MplsP said:
    melgross said:

    crowley said:
    talexy said:
    Whow. This sounds like a seriously beaten up Macbook Pro. And it can't be older than 4 years, given you mentioned the USB-C port. Either the quality of the latest MBP line is really not that good, or your way of handling it is pretty rough.

    I thought the same thing.  USB ports coming loose?  My 6 year old MacBook Air hasn't had anything like that litany of problems.  Going some way to putting me off upgrading.
    It’s easy to mess up present day ports on any device. Sadly, the rush to small and cheap has lead to tiny ports and plugs that are not really made for heavy use insofar as plugging and unplugging is concerned. Additionally, pulling on cables weakens and loosens them too. I’ve seem people pick up drives with a short cable attached that picks the end of the computer up with it before they realize they’ve done it. That damages the cable and port.

    in the “Old” days of computing, ports were large, sturdy metal, as were connectors, with screws used to secure them. The ports were attached to the frame of the device with screws in addition to being soldered to a board.

    I'm not surprised that someone doing what he does for a living has damaged his computer after 4 years. I’m surprised it lasted this long,  because those problems with ports usually indicate lack of care in handling a device. And a lot of people who consider their devices to just be “tools” treat them that way, though many don’t realize they’re doing it.

    The other thing I noticed was that his video chip started failing. What??? 

    This is another reason why I miss the MagSafe for charging. It was simply a better connector that was designed for charging, rather than using a connector that is just capable of chagring, like USB C

    melgross said:

    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    What kind of “inspecting” do you need to do? Tapping on a name in the address field gives you the address. Tapping on the “I” gives you the entire contact. What else are you needing?

    text selection isn’t equal, but it’s not bad. Maybe you’re still using iOS 12, because 13 does make an improvement, from my experience.
    Mail for iOS is not on par with Mail for MacOS and there are many things you cannot do on an iPad. Showing headers and text bullets are two examples off the top fo my head.

    A few years ago I tried to use my 12" iPad Pro as a replacement for my iPad Air and I gave up after a month. I could get most stuff I needed to done, but much of it was more difficult, cumbersome and inefficient. iOS has made significant strides since then and I think it's closer now - very close. I wish Apple had made the push to get iOS (or iPadOS) up to snuff sooner. The hardware has been ready much before the software was.
    All talk about the ipad must now include iPadOS and iOS 13, which by itself, improves the experience.

    talking about what the iPad was years ago is now meaningless. We can go and talk about System 1, or OS X 1.0. But why? Let’s concentrate on the new iPadOS, which itself is version .8, not even 1.0.

    if you mistake the things you’re mistaking, you’ll never get anywhere. No one is saying that the iPad does exactly what the Mac does, or that it’s equal in every way. It’s not, and people have to get over that. If they can’t, it’s their problem. Like it or not, I can do most of  what I do on a Mac, on my ipad. With iPadOS, it’s easier than ever before.

    thats Win 10 matters. If you have problems understanding that they are different, then you’ll never use it effectively, because you’ll be constantly complaining on what it doesn’t do, rather than what it does do.
    Yes, and I can do almost everything on my Windows 10 laptop that I can do on my Mac.  The question though is not IF but how well & how easily -- and if any limitations are intrinsic or fixable.
    I don’t believe that Apple ever intended for anyone to use an iPad the way they do a Mac. In fact, I’m sure of it. Peop,e get hung up on things that they should be smarter about. An iPad is not a Mac. You need a Mac, buy one. You don’t need one, don’t buy one. I don’t get the problem here.

    I've found that I can use my iPad almost 80% of the time. I do almost all of my browsing and commenting on my ipad. That’s a good 1,000 words a day, very often more, because of some of the writing I do one some scientific and engineering forums I’m on. It works pretty well. I use the virtual keyboard too, most of the time.

    perfect? No, but it does work very well. Can I type faster on a regular keyboard? Yes, but I don’t care if I type 65 words a minute on my ipad 12.9, which is how it tests, or the 85-90 I can do on my Mac keyboard, because it doesn’t matter. It’s the same thing with other work. I can often do it faster, or easier, but it doesn’t matter. The fact that I can do this nicely, and comfortably, on my couch, means more than sitting at my desk upstairs, in my computer room.

    i use AutoCad on my iPad. Yes, it took me some time to master it on  this (it took some time on my Mac too, as did BentleyCAD, years ago)  but afterwards, it works pretty smoothly. I’m not doing complex shapes for NASA, so it doesn’t matter if it takes a bit longer to do. It’s easy, and satisfying to do it on this.

    the same thing is true for a lot of things I do. It’s also not true for some other things. That’s why it’s 80%, and not 100%. But that’s fine. Other people, will have different percentages, and that’s fine too.

    some people seem to think it’s one OR the other. It’s not. It’s both, for most of us. And just like over a billion people have their smartphone as their only computer, some will have an iPad as their only computer.

    the usefulness is converging. Where it will go, none of us know, including Apple.
    edited July 16 watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 46
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,138member
    melgross said:

    melgross said:
    MplsP said:
    melgross said:

    crowley said:
    talexy said:
    Whow. This sounds like a seriously beaten up Macbook Pro. And it can't be older than 4 years, given you mentioned the USB-C port. Either the quality of the latest MBP line is really not that good, or your way of handling it is pretty rough.

    I thought the same thing.  USB ports coming loose?  My 6 year old MacBook Air hasn't had anything like that litany of problems.  Going some way to putting me off upgrading.
    It’s easy to mess up present day ports on any device. Sadly, the rush to small and cheap has lead to tiny ports and plugs that are not really made for heavy use insofar as plugging and unplugging is concerned. Additionally, pulling on cables weakens and loosens them too. I’ve seem people pick up drives with a short cable attached that picks the end of the computer up with it before they realize they’ve done it. That damages the cable and port.

    in the “Old” days of computing, ports were large, sturdy metal, as were connectors, with screws used to secure them. The ports were attached to the frame of the device with screws in addition to being soldered to a board.

    I'm not surprised that someone doing what he does for a living has damaged his computer after 4 years. I’m surprised it lasted this long,  because those problems with ports usually indicate lack of care in handling a device. And a lot of people who consider their devices to just be “tools” treat them that way, though many don’t realize they’re doing it.

    The other thing I noticed was that his video chip started failing. What??? 

    This is another reason why I miss the MagSafe for charging. It was simply a better connector that was designed for charging, rather than using a connector that is just capable of chagring, like USB C

    melgross said:

    rcfa said:
    i(Pad)OS has a long way to go for any serious work.
    e.g. can’t inspect/edit e-mail addresses when composing e-mail, and one has to be extremely careful not to use the wrong e-mail addresses, since autocomplete easily picks the wrong one.

    Text selection, copy/paste are a PITA

    These are just examples, but in essence i*OS devices remain information consumption devices like TVs, not content creation devices like computers.
    What kind of “inspecting” do you need to do? Tapping on a name in the address field gives you the address. Tapping on the “I” gives you the entire contact. What else are you needing?

    text selection isn’t equal, but it’s not bad. Maybe you’re still using iOS 12, because 13 does make an improvement, from my experience.
    Mail for iOS is not on par with Mail for MacOS and there are many things you cannot do on an iPad. Showing headers and text bullets are two examples off the top fo my head.

    A few years ago I tried to use my 12" iPad Pro as a replacement for my iPad Air and I gave up after a month. I could get most stuff I needed to done, but much of it was more difficult, cumbersome and inefficient. iOS has made significant strides since then and I think it's closer now - very close. I wish Apple had made the push to get iOS (or iPadOS) up to snuff sooner. The hardware has been ready much before the software was.
    All talk about the ipad must now include iPadOS and iOS 13, which by itself, improves the experience.

    talking about what the iPad was years ago is now meaningless. We can go and talk about System 1, or OS X 1.0. But why? Let’s concentrate on the new iPadOS, which itself is version .8, not even 1.0.

    if you mistake the things you’re mistaking, you’ll never get anywhere. No one is saying that the iPad does exactly what the Mac does, or that it’s equal in every way. It’s not, and people have to get over that. If they can’t, it’s their problem. Like it or not, I can do most of  what I do on a Mac, on my ipad. With iPadOS, it’s easier than ever before.

    thats Win 10 matters. If you have problems understanding that they are different, then you’ll never use it effectively, because you’ll be constantly complaining on what it doesn’t do, rather than what it does do.
    Yes, and I can do almost everything on my Windows 10 laptop that I can do on my Mac.  The question though is not IF but how well & how easily -- and if any limitations are intrinsic or fixable.
    I don’t believe that Apple ever intended for anyone to use an iPad the way they do a Mac. In fact, I’m sure of it. Peop,e get hung up on things that they should be smarter about. An iPad is not a Mac. You need a Mac, buy one. You don’t need one, don’t buy one. I don’t get the problem here.

    ....
    Two things wrong with that:
    1)   Apple seems to be artificially restricting the iPad from using a mouse -- probably to protect the MacBook line
    2)  If they didn't want the iPad to be compared to or to compete with computers they should not have advertised them that way.  "What's a computer?"

    Not everybody can afford two machines and not everybody wants to lug two machines around when one should do both jobs.
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