Apple quietly bought $17B more after record high $24B Q2 stock repurchase [u]

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 65
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,252member

    avon b7 said:

    "Apple is already leading the tech industry"

    I can't see how that is even remotely defendable. Apple remains primarily a CE company which is heavily dependent on other - leading - tech companies.

    I could argue that both Samsung and Huawei are leading the tech industry as both companies far outstrip where Apple swims in its particular stretch of the river.

    As for what could have been done to better invest all that cash, well there were plenty of opportunities that simply weren't put on the table.

    The reality is that Apple has invested little into R&D in terms of percentage of revenues.

    They could have easily moved into the cloud areas that Microsoft, Amazon and Google currently occupy. They could easily have invested in future communications technologies like 5G. They could have invested heavily in one of current phones weak points: battery technology. They could have moved into satellites.

    The truth is there was little foresight in the future. They played safe and hoarded instead. That isn't so much of a criticism from a business perspective, as Apple does now have a nascent penchant for buying in expensive technologies or businesses (Beats, intel 5G, content creation etc).

    The result is Netflix slipped away and now Apple (very late to the party) is playing catch-up. 5G modems? Catch-up again. iPhone (the big revenue generator)? Catch-up again. Audio streaming? Catch-up again.

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Please pass the reefer. 

    If you think Apple isn’t doing work on batteries, you have a curious world view. But from what I’ve read it’s a difficult problem with no clear solutions in sight, which is why no one has anything better and may not for a long time. 

    Uh, satellites, yeah that’s the ticket. Darn Apple for not getting into satellites!

    Claiming that they aren’t investing in the future as “truth” just exposes your agenda, again. It’s a laughable idea. 

    Apple leads the markets they sell in and your crappy chinese knockoffs do what they do best — copy. EOS. 
    edited August 2019 lolliverfastasleepdedgeckotmayRayz2016P-DogNCjony0
  • Reply 42 of 65
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,252member



    "The complaints about China isn’t that companies are investing in their future, but that they are stealing IP, copying the design without the same concern for safety and quality, and maintaining poor working conditions that brutalize labor and expose workers to very bad conditions. "
    Yeh, that's Trump's story line.   It's mostly bull.  But people buy into it.

    "China is a huge problem. Look at what they are doing to their own air and water."
    China is one of the original backers of the Paris Climate Change accords (as were we) and continues to live up to the agreement.   The U.S. is the ONLY one who pulled out so it can promote more coal fired power plants -- and generate Trump votes in West Virginia.
    China was appropriating IP and knocking off products with toxic sham ripoffs that poisoned the air of all of its major cities long before Trump started his nazi rallies. 

    And what was China expected to do under the Paris Accords? Not much. The choice here isn’t between communism and fascism, so taking one of those sides isn’t the answer. 
    Yawn....   I've heard that story before....
    Yes, because it’s true — China has a decades old history of ripping off American companies for IP. Apple and Tesla just busted some bad actors recently, but it’s happened for decades and only a fool or an astroturfer would claim otherwise. Which are you?
    lollivertmayapplejakesP-DogNCwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 43 of 65
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,252member

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    You are so lost in the woods it’s not even funny. Why didn’t Apple buy Netflix or get into services earlier? Because they were too busy raking in money hand over fist. As in, in biblical proportions. As in, selling the most successful product in human history. A once in a lifetime product. There simply wasn’t no reason, manpower or time to spend on less profitable enterprises like those much smaller companies and their one-trick ponies. Plenty of time to add services later after building up a huge and loyal customer base — one with income to spend. 

    “But streaming!” rolleyes

    Your views on how Apple screwed this up just show a person completely clueless on Apple, or an agenda-based position. Mind boggling. 
    edited August 2019 lolliverfastasleepFileMakerFellertmayRayz2016uraharaP-DogNCwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 44 of 65
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Apple is investing in AAPL?    No, it is not investing in itself.   It is doing two things:
    1). Giving away its profits to stock holders
    2)  Propping up its own stock pice

    I read a few days ago (I forget where) that in the last couple years Apple's Earnings Per Share have increased 25% -- on the SAME PROFIT.   That's all due to buybacks reducing the number of shares outstanding.

    But, Apple is not alone in its Financial Engineering.   It seems most large U.S. companies are doing it.

    So, while "we" complain about China competing unfairly against U.S. corporations, those same U.S. corporations are refusing to invest in themselves.
    Perhaps China is not the problem?
    Where’s the roll of tinfoil, fellas? We need moar!

    Apple’s P/E ratio is still such that it’s clear they are undervalued. Your conspiracy theories that Apple is engaged in financial engineering is delusional nonsense. Seems part of your pro-China agenda. 
    I'll wait for you to post something worth reading....   Your strawman arguments and personal attacks simply demonstrate that you have no rebuttal.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 45 of 65
    dedgeckodedgecko Posts: 169member

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    You are so lost in the woods it’s not even funny. Why didn’t Apple buy Netflix or get into services earlier? Because they were too busy raking in money hand over fist. As in, in biblical proportions. As in, selling the most successful product in human history. A once in a lifetime product. There simply wasn’t no reason, manpower or time to spend on less profitable enterprises like those much smaller companies and their one-trick ponies. Plenty of time to add services later after building up a huge and loyal customer base — one with income to spend. 

    “But streaming!” rolleyes

    Your views on how Apple screwed this up just show a person completely clueless on Apple, or an agenda-based position. Mind boggling. 
    He’s not clueless, he just doesn’t understand R&D, operations, sales, and profit margins. 
    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 46 of 65
    sacto joesacto joe Posts: 895member
    bohler said:
    what a stupid waste of money instead of doing something big and changing the world. This lack of courage and ideas is sickening ! buying tesla and investing billions into the car industry would be a real game changer..nobody would be able to compete with an Apple-Tesla juggernaut- instead we get buybacks, boring iphones, unimpressive laptops, and the same old sucking butterfly keyboard
    Have you ever invested in anything, let alone AAPL? If you invest for any other reason than to make money, you'd better be made out of money.

    As a long-time AAPL investor who has a big chunk of their retirement in the stock, I can tell you that buying back their incredibly undervalued shares with big gobs of the massive amounts of cash they generate is far, far from "a stupid waste". And how easy it is to shoot your mouth off about "lack of courage and ideas"! You literally defined your state of ignorance when you wrote that.

    In fact, are you even a human? Your negative rundown could have just been copied and pasted from any of a number of anti-Apple troll sites.


    tmayP-DogNCwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 47 of 65
    sacto joesacto joe Posts: 895member
    BTW, Apple cleared $64 B over the last year. Here’s the last 4 fiscal years’ net income:

    59.531 B – fy ‘18
    48.351 B – fy ‘17
    45.687 B – fy ‘16
    53.394 B – fy ‘ 15

    Just imagine what it would have made absent the Trump Trade War....


    P-DogNCwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 48 of 65
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    Avon, I think you're measuring the claim of "leading the tech industry" in terms of technological achievement where DED is measuring it in terms of profits achieved.
    GeorgeBMacjony0
  • Reply 49 of 65
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    bohler said:
    what a stupid waste of money instead of doing something big and changing the world. This lack of courage and ideas is sickening ! buying tesla and investing billions into the car industry would be a real game changer..nobody would be able to compete with an Apple-Tesla juggernaut- instead we get buybacks, boring iphones, unimpressive laptops, and the same old sucking butterfly keyboard
    If you think the Butterfly keyboard "sucks" go get a Tesla and drive it for a while.  
    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 50 of 65
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    Avon, stick to your Huawei lipstick. 

    Netflix and Spotify haven't made much if any money across a decade of frantic building. Apple could have bought and developed those companies instead of focusing on building the future of mobile devices and platforms, but then instead of earning a trillion dollars and sitting on a trillion dollar enterprise, it would own Netflix and Spotify, two massive money pits that won't ever make substantial money. Their share prices have gone up, but that's all bullshit investment erecting a "house of cards" (ughh) much like the huge bubble of AOL that was "worth" lots until investors realized that no it wasn't. 

    Every studio in the world is now launching its own Netflix, and Spotify is struggling to make and then lose $100M per quarter this year streaming music. It's first profit ever.

    Why didn't Apple get into streaming earlier? Because it was making tons on money on iTunes Downloads. Streaming is a shit business Apple was forced into after iTunes collapsed due to YouTube free streaming based on paying artists nothing and Spotify paying them slightly more than nothing. Apple Music doesn't make significant money, it just keeps Apple relevant in the music market. 

    Here's the business you think Apple should have acquired and devoted itself to instead of making a trillion dollars from iOS. You are totally nuts dude. Netflix is a shit business to be in and would have been a massive waste of Apple's resources, for nothing. It would be like Apple buying WhatsApp for $$$ rather than developing iMessage and leading US communications. Most of what Netflix does is build out infrastructure to make its content work across tons of weird platforms, and a lot of that work is now obsolete. 



    P-DogNCbrucemcwatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 65
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    Avon, stick to your Huawei lipstick. 

    Netflix and Spotify haven't made much if any money across a decade of frantic building. Apple could have bought and developed those companies instead of focusing on building the future of mobile devices and platforms, but then instead of earning a trillion dollars and sitting on a trillion dollar enterprise, it would own Netflix and Spotify, two massive money pits that won't ever make substantial money. Their share prices have gone up, but that's all bullshit investment erecting a "house of cards" (ughh) much like the huge bubble of AOL that was "worth" lots until investors realized that no it wasn't. 
    That might be true of Spotify, but Netflix has been reliably in the black for the past ten years and recently passed £1bn/year in net income.  They're plenty profitable.

    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=netflix+profit+2009+to+2019
    edited August 2019
  • Reply 52 of 65
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Apple is investing in AAPL?    No, it is not investing in itself.   It is doing two things:
    1). Giving away its profits to stock holders
    2)  Propping up its own stock pice

    I read a few days ago (I forget where) that in the last couple years Apple's Earnings Per Share have increased 25% -- on the SAME PROFIT.   That's all due to buybacks reducing the number of shares outstanding.

    But, Apple is not alone in its Financial Engineering.   It seems most large U.S. companies are doing it.

    So, while "we" complain about China competing unfairly against U.S. corporations, those same U.S. corporations are refusing to invest in themselves.
    Perhaps China is not the problem?
    Where’s the roll of tinfoil, fellas? We need moar!

    Apple’s P/E ratio is still such that it’s clear they are undervalued. Your conspiracy theories that Apple is engaged in financial engineering is delusional nonsense. Seems part of your pro-China agenda. 
    I'll wait for you to post something worth reading....   Your strawman arguments and personal attacks simply demonstrate that you have no rebuttal.
    This, from the same person who thinks:

    Yawn....   I've heard that story before....

    qualifies as a “rebuttal”. 

    tmayP-DogNCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 65
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    Avon, stick to your Huawei lipstick. 

    Netflix and Spotify haven't made much if any money across a decade of frantic building. Apple could have bought and developed those companies instead of focusing on building the future of mobile devices and platforms, but then instead of earning a trillion dollars and sitting on a trillion dollar enterprise, it would own Netflix and Spotify, two massive money pits that won't ever make substantial money. Their share prices have gone up, but that's all bullshit investment erecting a "house of cards" (ughh) much like the huge bubble of AOL that was "worth" lots until investors realized that no it wasn't. 
    That might be true of Spotify, but Netflix has been reliably in the black for the past ten years and recently passed £1bn/year in net income.  They're plenty profitable.

    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=netflix+profit+2009+to+2019
    Apple doesn’t buy companies because they’re profitable. It buys them because they have talent or expertise that they can use to build on. Apple won’t buy Netflix or Spotify because they don’t see any talent or expertise worth dropping cash for. 

    And “substantial” is a relative term. A billion a year in net income is not that substantial to a company with divisions that are tech titans in their own right. 
    edited August 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 65
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,812member
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    Avon, stick to your Huawei lipstick. 

    Netflix and Spotify haven't made much if any money across a decade of frantic building. Apple could have bought and developed those companies instead of focusing on building the future of mobile devices and platforms, but then instead of earning a trillion dollars and sitting on a trillion dollar enterprise, it would own Netflix and Spotify, two massive money pits that won't ever make substantial money. Their share prices have gone up, but that's all bullshit investment erecting a "house of cards" (ughh) much like the huge bubble of AOL that was "worth" lots until investors realized that no it wasn't. 
    That might be true of Spotify, but Netflix has been reliably in the black for the past ten years and recently passed £1bn/year in net income.  They're plenty profitable.

    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=netflix+profit+2009+to+2019
    Reliably?

    It's still early in the streaming war.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/disney-will-win-streaming-battle-with-netflix-analyst-2019-08-07
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 65
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    Avon, stick to your Huawei lipstick. 

    Netflix and Spotify haven't made much if any money across a decade of frantic building. Apple could have bought and developed those companies instead of focusing on building the future of mobile devices and platforms, but then instead of earning a trillion dollars and sitting on a trillion dollar enterprise, it would own Netflix and Spotify, two massive money pits that won't ever make substantial money. Their share prices have gone up, but that's all bullshit investment erecting a "house of cards" (ughh) much like the huge bubble of AOL that was "worth" lots until investors realized that no it wasn't. 
    That might be true of Spotify, but Netflix has been reliably in the black for the past ten years and recently passed £1bn/year in net income.  They're plenty profitable.

    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=netflix+profit+2009+to+2019
    Reliably?

    It's still early in the streaming war.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/disney-will-win-streaming-battle-with-netflix-analyst-2019-08-07
    Future competition isn't really the point.  Netflix is not a "money pit that won't ever make substantial money" or a "house of cards".  It's a very profitable company, albeit one that may face difficulty in the future due to a changing competitive landscape.
  • Reply 56 of 65
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Rayz2016 said:

    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    Avon, stick to your Huawei lipstick. 

    Netflix and Spotify haven't made much if any money across a decade of frantic building. Apple could have bought and developed those companies instead of focusing on building the future of mobile devices and platforms, but then instead of earning a trillion dollars and sitting on a trillion dollar enterprise, it would own Netflix and Spotify, two massive money pits that won't ever make substantial money. Their share prices have gone up, but that's all bullshit investment erecting a "house of cards" (ughh) much like the huge bubble of AOL that was "worth" lots until investors realized that no it wasn't. 
    That might be true of Spotify, but Netflix has been reliably in the black for the past ten years and recently passed £1bn/year in net income.  They're plenty profitable.

    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=netflix+profit+2009+to+2019
    Apple doesn’t buy companies because they’re profitable. It buys them because they have talent or expertise that they can use to build on. Apple won’t buy Netflix or Spotify because they don’t see any talent or expertise worth dropping cash for. 

    And “substantial” is a relative term. A billion a year in net income is not that substantial to a company with divisions that are tech titans in their own right. 
    I've not talking about Apple buying anything, merely correcting an inaccurate description.

    A billion in net income is substantial to any company, even Apple.
  • Reply 57 of 65
    P-DogNCP-DogNC Posts: 37member
    It’s a far cry from what Michael Dell would’ve done. But in retrospect, Dell wasn’t any worse than most financial analysts are in predicting Apple’s success or failure.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 65
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    Interesting to think that Apple could have been this generation's Berkshire Hathaway.  Instead of buying billions of dollars worth of Apple shares each quarter, they could just as easily have purchases shares in Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, Netflix, etc.  In short order they would have enough stake in those companies have seats on the board.  My understanding is that this practice is (was?) standard practice in Japan, so all the major industrial companies were closely linked.  On net, I expect it's a good thing that this isn't the practice in the US, but it's interesting to think about.
    A company needs to be intensely focused on their strengths.

    Apple is not an investment bank.

    Apple is a design-led product/solution/ecosystem company that builds loyal customers.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 65
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member

    Apart from counting how many outstanding shares are disappearing, I would never know Apple is buying back shares. I see the EPS is rising, but that hasn't stopped the P/E from falling. I certainly do get my dividends but other than that, Apple's share gains are nothing special and likely worse than any of the FANG stocks. It just seems as though Apple's overall value is either not moving or falling despite all those stock buybacks. Meanwhile, Microsoft is absolutely killing it and has left Apple well in the dust in terms of market cap. Microsoft makes being a trillion-dollar company look easy. Wall Street has no doubts at all Microsoft is a trillion-dollar company as they doubted about Apple.  Apple had such a huge advantage to stay as a trillion-dollar company but just threw it all away. China is lost for Apple with no hope of getting anything back.  India and Africa are non-starters for Apple to make any gains with.

    Apple should have taken that $24B and bought some cloud computing company to possibly offset all the lost revenue from declining iPhone sales. Cloud computing is a hot market with supposedly great growth potential. Apple doesn't seem to have diddly when it comes to growth. I realize their Services is growing, but barely fast enough to offset lost iPhone revenue. Apple should be able to do a lot better, considering all that cash they have to spend. I had been hearing about all those data centers Apple was spending money on, so whatever became of them. Are they just being used for iCloud? It sure seems like a waste of money to build dozens of data centers just for that

    I'm no financial expert but I just get tired of hearing all the talk about Apple's post-iPhone doom and gloom. Apple needs to get into a decent growth business and maybe the stock will be less volatile. I'm sure a growth business would be more effective than just buying back shares.
    Apple has never been in the business of buying a company simply to have another revenue source.  Never.

    You are arguing that Apple shouldn't be Apple, in order to have focus on an increasing share price.  Which IMO would be bad for the longterm focus of the company.

    I invest in Apple because of how they manage their business, their intense focus, their discipline, their methodical way of growing the ecosystem.  I invest in other companies for other things.

    You should invest in Microsoft, if you haven't already (I am a fan).  If you are unhappy with Apple, then sell your shares.  Me - I have faith in the Apple way, the Apple vision, and the management of the company.  AAPL is a core stock of my portfolio (which has dozens of other equities as well).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 65
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As for leading the tech industry. I disagree.
    Well invest all your money in Spotify and Netflix and Samsung and commodity cloud providers and stop posting your genius ideas for free on Internet forums. 

    Clearly you know so much. If only Apple knew what you did. We bow before your great intellect you wise man of incredible logic and foresight. 

    I’m only surprised you didn’t spend more time explaining how much you love Huawei. 
    How about first supporting the comment that led to my post?

    How is Apple already leading the tech industry? That is baloney and I only mentioned the tip of the iceberg!

    Let's be realistic.

    If Apple had had the foresight, it would have snapped up Netflix long ago instead of having to invest billions - for other companies - to provide content and try to establish itself in yet another saturated market!

    Are you implying that Apple wasn't late to streaming? Where was the foresight? Spotify since 2008. Apple Music since 2015. Apple chose a different path originally. Just like with screen size.

    The reality is that even a few short years ago Apple had no idea what it was going to do or where it was headed. It was firmly entrenched in iPhone and trying to leverage services more profitably. It had Apple TV as a hobby, the Mac business and iPad. Then Apple Watch - CE! The tech industry spans far more than CE!

    It hoarded (thanks to iPhone) and that's fine but don't try to make claims that don't even begin to hold water. However much you love Apple.

    When Apple starts producing cutting edge technology from the top right down to the bottom and impacting a far broader swathe of technologies, you might be able to make such claims but right now they are completely out of place. 

    Instead of going on the attack, explain why you feel you can make those affirmations and then we will see how your explanations hold up.
    Avon, stick to your Huawei lipstick. 

    Netflix and Spotify haven't made much if any money across a decade of frantic building. Apple could have bought and developed those companies instead of focusing on building the future of mobile devices and platforms, but then instead of earning a trillion dollars and sitting on a trillion dollar enterprise, it would own Netflix and Spotify, two massive money pits that won't ever make substantial money. Their share prices have gone up, but that's all bullshit investment erecting a "house of cards" (ughh) much like the huge bubble of AOL that was "worth" lots until investors realized that no it wasn't. 
    That might be true of Spotify, but Netflix has been reliably in the black for the past ten years and recently passed £1bn/year in net income.  They're plenty profitable.

    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=netflix+profit+2009+to+2019
    Netflix are burning cash and have to fund their investments in new content with debt.
    watto_cobra
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