Apple loses ground to Samsung in European smartphone market

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 60
    To be honest I’m surprised the decline isn’t greater in Europe. I have changed from an iPhone and most of those I know have too, the primary reason being cost. There is no doubting iPhones are good phones but now so are android and on neither side is there a phone that is so great it should cost £1000.

    i am now using a Samsung a50 which didn’t cost all that much and it does everything I need a phone to do very well. In fact it does it so well I can’t see why I should spend 749 let alone a grand on a phone. 

    I get that Apple are keen to keep profit margins and not panic the market but if services is where they see their growth coming they surely need a growing user base or that too will stagnate. 
    AI_liasmuthuk_vanalingamelijahgbigtdskestral
  • Reply 42 of 60
    I was in Paris, Provence, and Barcelona for 2 weeks last month. The majority of phones I saw were iPhones. I also saw quite a few AirPods and Apple Watches, particularly in Paris. The other thing I noticed on the trains in Paris and Barcelona was that about 80% of the riders with seats had their eyes fixed to their phone. The one exception was on the train from Charles DeGaulle Airport to Paris, most of the nearby riders had their eyes fixed to my luggage.
    hentaiboySpamSandwich
  • Reply 43 of 60
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member

    spice-boy said:
    I know there are a lot fans of the "free market" mantra here and all I can say is the free market has spoken and it now prefers Samsung. 
    So Libertarians rejoice, the strong will survive and your favorite brand was the weaker. 
    Delusional, son. Define stronger & weaker. Sounds to me like you're talking about market share, and we all know Apple doesn't worship at the Church of Market Share. They won't give up their historic, recording-setting, massively successful, profit in order to give random fanboys on the interwebs something to brag about. Nope. They would rather sell fewer and do better. Which is why Mac has a smaller market share than Windows but earns more profit. Or why they never go into the cheap netbook craze, etc etc. 

    Same as it ever was. Apparently still difficult for some people to grasp.
    uhmmm you're calling me "delusional".......
  • Reply 44 of 60
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,205member
    spice-boy said:

    spice-boy said:
    I know there are a lot fans of the "free market" mantra here and all I can say is the free market has spoken and it now prefers Samsung. 
    So Libertarians rejoice, the strong will survive and your favorite brand was the weaker. 
    Delusional, son. Define stronger & weaker. Sounds to me like you're talking about market share, and we all know Apple doesn't worship at the Church of Market Share. They won't give up their historic, recording-setting, massively successful, profit in order to give random fanboys on the interwebs something to brag about. Nope. They would rather sell fewer and do better. Which is why Mac has a smaller market share than Windows but earns more profit. Or why they never go into the cheap netbook craze, etc etc. 

    Same as it ever was. Apparently still difficult for some people to grasp.
    uhmmm you're calling me "delusional".......
    If you're actually saying Apple is the weaker brand, because smaller market share, then yes, I am. 

    That's like saying Mercedes is the weaker brand than Kia because there are more Kias than Mercedes -- even if Mercedes is a stronger brand and/or doing better financially, where profit is the air corporations breathe, not market share. See the point? 
    edited August 2019 Rayz2016
  • Reply 45 of 60
    lewklewk Posts: 17member
    In the past, when Apple reported actual sales of iPhones, these sort of comparisons were very inaccurate as while Apple was reporting actual sales, the other were reporting units shipped to the stores.  A little channel stuffing could result in the numbers looking like Apple was doing very poorly when it more people were walking out of stores with iPhones than with the other smartphones.

    Is this report actually comparing sales to sales, or sales to units shipped.  And since Apple doesn't report the numbers anymore and they can't get sales figures for Apple Stores - physical and online - the Apple numbers are usually grossly undercounted.
  • Reply 46 of 60
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,291member
    The details of Apple's market share may not necessarily be a useful figure to examine in this case, as Canalys is monitoring all smartphone sales, regardless of price. This effectively puts Apple's premium smartphones against models that could cost a small fraction of the price of an iPhone, making it a relatively unfair comparison, unlike a comparison of revenue. 


    This is the only part that is most important (and relevant).
    edited August 2019
  • Reply 47 of 60
    wlee2019 said:
    To be honest I’m surprised the decline isn’t greater in Europe. I have changed from an iPhone and most of those I know have too, the primary reason being cost. There is no doubting iPhones are good phones but now so are android and on neither side is there a phone that is so great it should cost £1000.

    i am now using a Samsung a50 which didn’t cost all that much and it does everything I need a phone to do very well. In fact it does it so well I can’t see why I should spend 749 let alone a grand on a phone. 

    I get that Apple are keen to keep profit margins and not panic the market but if services is where they see their growth coming they surely need a growing user base or that too will stagnate. 
    So many miss the fact that the iOS install base is growing. So, there goes your argument. The grey market is servicing the low to mid level iPhone market. Apple keeps high end prices where they are to prop up the prices of the ever growing grey market. Apples devices last and are supported for 5yrs or more. They have over 900,000,000 active iPhones in the wild and that number is growing. Also, the XR is the #1 selling phone for the last few quarters but yes price is the issue. Samsung selling more $200 ASP phones than Apple selling $750-$1000 Phones is a hilarious comparison. 
  • Reply 48 of 60
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    spice-boy said:

    spice-boy said:
    I know there are a lot fans of the "free market" mantra here and all I can say is the free market has spoken and it now prefers Samsung. 
    So Libertarians rejoice, the strong will survive and your favorite brand was the weaker. 
    Delusional, son. Define stronger & weaker. Sounds to me like you're talking about market share, and we all know Apple doesn't worship at the Church of Market Share. They won't give up their historic, recording-setting, massively successful, profit in order to give random fanboys on the interwebs something to brag about. Nope. They would rather sell fewer and do better. Which is why Mac has a smaller market share than Windows but earns more profit. Or why they never go into the cheap netbook craze, etc etc. 

    Same as it ever was. Apparently still difficult for some people to grasp.
    uhmmm you're calling me "delusional".......
    If you're actually saying Apple is the weaker brand, because smaller market share, then yes, I am. 

    That's like saying Mercedes is the weaker brand than Kia because there are more Kias than Mercedes -- even if Mercedes is a stronger brand and/or doing better financially, where profit is the air corporations breathe, not market share. See the point? 
    I just got bored repeating this. Let ‘em live their “Apple is doomed” fantasy. 

    “The free market has spoken and it now prefers Samsung”?

    Nope, Apple has spoken, and it prefers to avoid the cheap generic end of the market. 
    dedgecko
  • Reply 49 of 60
    croprcropr Posts: 1,078member
    saarek said:
    I’m not surprised at all, most of the new features come to Europe later than US and we are to pay silly high prices!
    Thank your regulators and protectionist policies.
    For some features that might be part of the problem, but for a lot of other features it's no excuse.

    Pime example, that I just discovered today. If I ask my HomePod to play the top 20 from 1999 it tells me "Sorry, I don't know the historical charts from your country." What the actual fuck?!?!? Apple Music was released way back in 2015, and they still have not bothered to add something as simple as the UK charts to the service? Something so mind numbingly simple and obvious and they just don't bother to do it.

    There are so many examples of Apple just not giving a shit about their users outside of the USA. Frequently we pay more for a much poorer service. There is no excuse for sometihng as simple as the above, the UK is a key market for Apple generating billions of dollars of their yearly income and yet they pull shit like this.
    You are lucky to live in the UK,  it is even worse for the non English speaking countries.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 50 of 60
    seanjseanj Posts: 298member
    It’s simple. All the people I know are buying 5G phones as that’s now offered in the U.K. It makes no sense to buy a 4G phone unless you plan to upgrade yearly - but most people are now on a 4 year life-cycle for their phones.
    And Apple doesn’t have a 5G phone...
  • Reply 51 of 60
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,339member


    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    From a European perspective and the Spanish market in particular I think Apple has two root problems.

    One is that, generally speaking, you don't see switchers from Android to iOS but you do see switchers from iOS to Android. Android switching (to other Androids) is seen as a plus as users get a lot to choose from and choice is important. Most Apple retail stores are visited by Apple users, not Android users looking to switch. It means that they already have an iDevice but if what is on offer is not compelling enough or too expensive, Apple misses out on the sale (which could be temporary or permanent).

    The other point is clearly the price of entry. Many (myself included) are simply turned off by the price tag. On top of that you don't get the 'value' that most of us look for in any purchase. The good news here is that the fix is easy as long as Apple decides to implement it.

    Apart from that, Samsung and Huawei are traditional heavy hitters with something for everyone in every price band. And now, both Oppo and especially Xiaomi are establishing distribution, support and service here making them attractive propositions too. Huawei has its largest Huawei retail store outside China in Madrid. 

    For visibility Samsung takes the biscuit with Huawei not far behind. Apple isn't invisible but perhaps is overly reliant on the Apple retail operations. There are 'campaigns' but there isn't really much to 'sell'. We had the photography and battery duration campaigns but most people already take for granted that Huawei and Samsung are kings of the hill on those fronts, which in turn puts them on the radars of iOS users. Mainstream press has more news on Android technology simply because there is much more of it and the flow is constant.

    With the possible exception of the UK, I think it's now harder for Apple in the EU.

    The 'good enough' factor is very real and for good reason. However, it impacts all manufacturers and not just Apple.

    In spite of everything, iPhones are a common sight but I still see more older iPhones (heads and chins) than newer notched variants. How old is hard to tell and it is impossible to know if those users will stay on iOS or switch when it comes to upgrading.

    All I can say is that competition (for everyone) is very intense and if you have a limited product spread at high prices (factor in 21% sales tax to every phone) you will find it harder to sell your products.

    Let's not forget either that I'm speaking about iPhones here, not other Apple products.

    I think price drops across the iPhone line would definitely help more than any other course of action. Whether they happen or not is anybody's guess.
    This looks to be the death spiral of Android OEM's trading margins for marketshare, and, ultimately, low profitability. Proof of that is that the iPhone XR is selling better by far than any other Android OS flagships, per the graphic in the post. Given that Xaomi is seeing huge growth driven by its stated goal of a 5% profit cap, I can't imagine more than a few Android OS device makers surviving even a weak recession in the future.

    Yeah, but fucking marketshare rules!
    How an iPhone X series phone sells with regards to other flagships is irrelevant. 

    There is a low, mid and high segment in the overall handset market and it is the market - as a whole - which will determine how things play out for each manufacturer.

    There will be convergence (it is already happening) but your handset marketshare will play a vital role in your economies of scale as long as the product remains a major revenue earner. Pushing unit prices up can only go so far before customers literally stop buying. When that happens, what do you do?

    Since 2017 Apple has tried a couple of options. They were the easier options and worth trying first but with such a sloth-like cycle, it takes time to evaluate the results.

    In one foul swoop they introduced a third new model (with ultra premium pricing) and opened up the overall product spread to its widest ever. They followed that with what users perceived as across the board price increases for relatively little return on the hardware.

    Three years of flat sales, a profit warning, discounting and now iPhone revenue dropping below 50% of company revenues. The iPhone remains the top Apple product and will be pored over at an executive level to find ways to reverse the course of the last four years.

    I think price reductions will be part of the plan.

    There is no problem having an ultra high priced phone as long as your bread and butter offerings are 'selling'. If they don't hold up the bottom line your vertically integrated operations just get more expensive. Apple has been pushing component suppliers to reduce costs and may have squeezed as much as it can out of that. Add on contractual 'penalties' (Samsung display) for not fulfilling order quotas (another sign of lost sales) and things can quickly become unstable and I believe we will look back on the 2018 refresh as the refresh that Apple 'wobbled'. There were other factors involved but, this late in the refresh, I think most will agree that pricing is the number one problem.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 52 of 60
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,339member
    spice-boy said:

    spice-boy said:
    I know there are a lot fans of the "free market" mantra here and all I can say is the free market has spoken and it now prefers Samsung. 
    So Libertarians rejoice, the strong will survive and your favorite brand was the weaker. 
    Delusional, son. Define stronger & weaker. Sounds to me like you're talking about market share, and we all know Apple doesn't worship at the Church of Market Share. They won't give up their historic, recording-setting, massively successful, profit in order to give random fanboys on the interwebs something to brag about. Nope. They would rather sell fewer and do better. Which is why Mac has a smaller market share than Windows but earns more profit. Or why they never go into the cheap netbook craze, etc etc. 

    Same as it ever was. Apparently still difficult for some people to grasp.
    uhmmm you're calling me "delusional".......
    If you're actually saying Apple is the weaker brand, because smaller market share, then yes, I am. 

    That's like saying Mercedes is the weaker brand than Kia because there are more Kias than Mercedes -- even if Mercedes is a stronger brand and/or doing better financially, where profit is the air corporations breathe, not market share. See the point? 
    That is an incorrect conclusion.

    Mercedes rides on its brand name and performance but is part of Daimler AG. That is a massive umbrella to be under (which includes the world's largest truck manufacturer and Smart to name just two areas).

    For Apple, the umbrella is the iPhone itself.
  • Reply 53 of 60
    KidGloves said:
    Apple is selling the 256GB iPhone 8 for more than a 512GB Galaxy S10. There's your problem right there for Apple.
    In a world where top-line Android phones are decent all-round machines, Apple is seen a being greedy. As a 30 year Apple user who has bought tens of thousands of pounds worth of Apple gear in that time, I'm getting totally fed up with the high prices and limited choice in each segment such as desktop Macs.
    In the past, it was worth it as Windows was a nightmare world I didn't want to enter into. Now though Windows and Android have got to the point of being passable. I might just make the move.
    There used to be an old saying that went something like... “You get what you pay for.” If you’re happy with “just good enough,” then have at it. 
    Which is why Apple loses ground to Samsung.  The majority of people want a product that is good enough.  If the price is right and the phone does what they need, then it is good enough.  Sure they could spend a lot more for some bells and whistles but then it's too much.  It's common sense.  Why do you think people should be buying products that have more than they need?
    muthuk_vanalingamwlee2019
  • Reply 54 of 60
    uraharaurahara Posts: 663member
    I’m not surprised at all, most of the new features come to Europe later than US and we are to pay silly high prices!
    Maybe because of the tariffs which are exposed by your government and Europe?
    Did you vote? For them?
  • Reply 55 of 60
    uraharaurahara Posts: 663member
    jbdragon said:
    I like iOS over Android for a number of reasons, #1, Not a fan of Google spying on everything I do. A OS controlled by a Advertising company!!! No thanks. That keeps me on the iPhone. But I have to say, this iPhone XS has been driving me nuts at times. It will show 2,3, sometimes 4 bars and yet there will be NO INTERNET CONNECTION. DEAD!!! In doesn't work as good as my iPhone 6 did. I have a connection, why can't I do anything? I reboot, still nothing!!! Then out of the blue, maybe 30 minutes later, BAM, it's working. I just don't get it but it's really starting to piss me off. I have a single, and yet I can't download anything. Nothing. SpeedTest doesn't work. Can't view any news, nothing. Wifi, Great, but Cell??? Flaky!!! I have a connection, and yet completely dead!!! I'm not running any BETA software on it. I hold onto my iPhone for 4 years. This is my 3rd one, the way it's going I don't see me holding onto this thing for 4 years. That is going to piss me off.
    Have you checked the damage reports of your provider in your area?
  • Reply 56 of 60
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    From a European perspective and the Spanish market in particular I think Apple has two root problems.

    One is that, generally speaking, you don't see switchers from Android to iOS but you do see switchers from iOS to Android. Android switching (to other Androids) is seen as a plus as users get a lot to choose from and choice is important. Most Apple retail stores are visited by Apple users, not Android users looking to switch. It means that they already have an iDevice but if what is on offer is not compelling enough or too expensive, Apple misses out on the sale (which could be temporary or permanent).

    The other point is clearly the price of entry. Many (myself included) are simply turned off by the price tag. On top of that you don't get the 'value' that most of us look for in any purchase. The good news here is that the fix is easy as long as Apple decides to implement it.

    Apart from that, Samsung and Huawei are traditional heavy hitters with something for everyone in every price band. And now, both Oppo and especially Xiaomi are establishing distribution, support and service here making them attractive propositions too. Huawei has its largest Huawei retail store outside China in Madrid. 

    For visibility Samsung takes the biscuit with Huawei not far behind. Apple isn't invisible but perhaps is overly reliant on the Apple retail operations. There are 'campaigns' but there isn't really much to 'sell'. We had the photography and battery duration campaigns but most people already take for granted that Huawei and Samsung are kings of the hill on those fronts, which in turn puts them on the radars of iOS users. Mainstream press has more news on Android technology simply because there is much more of it and the flow is constant.

    With the possible exception of the UK, I think it's now harder for Apple in the EU.

    The 'good enough' factor is very real and for good reason. However, it impacts all manufacturers and not just Apple.

    In spite of everything, iPhones are a common sight but I still see more older iPhones (heads and chins) than newer notched variants. How old is hard to tell and it is impossible to know if those users will stay on iOS or switch when it comes to upgrading.

    All I can say is that competition (for everyone) is very intense and if you have a limited product spread at high prices (factor in 21% sales tax to every phone) you will find it harder to sell your products.

    Let's not forget either that I'm speaking about iPhones here, not other Apple products.

    I think price drops across the iPhone line would definitely help more than any other course of action. Whether they happen or not is anybody's guess.
    This looks to be the death spiral of Android OEM's trading margins for marketshare, and, ultimately, low profitability. Proof of that is that the iPhone XR is selling better by far than any other Android OS flagships, per the graphic in the post. Given that Xaomi is seeing huge growth driven by its stated goal of a 5% profit cap, I can't imagine more than a few Android OS device makers surviving even a weak recession in the future.

    Yeah, but fucking marketshare rules!
    How an iPhone X series phone sells with regards to other flagships is irrelevant. 

    There is a low, mid and high segment in the overall handset market and it is the market - as a whole - which will determine how things play out for each manufacturer.

    There will be convergence (it is already happening) but your handset marketshare will play a vital role in your economies of scale as long as the product remains a major revenue earner. Pushing unit prices up can only go so far before customers literally stop buying. When that happens, what do you do?

    Since 2017 Apple has tried a couple of options. They were the easier options and worth trying first but with such a sloth-like cycle, it takes time to evaluate the results.

    In one foul swoop they introduced a third new model (with ultra premium pricing) and opened up the overall product spread to its widest ever. They followed that with what users perceived as across the board price increases for relatively little return on the hardware.

    Three years of flat sales, a profit warning, discounting and now iPhone revenue dropping below 50% of company revenues. The iPhone remains the top Apple product and will be pored over at an executive level to find ways to reverse the course of the last four years.

    I think price reductions will be part of the plan.

    There is no problem having an ultra high priced phone as long as your bread and butter offerings are 'selling'. If they don't hold up the bottom line your vertically integrated operations just get more expensive. Apple has been pushing component suppliers to reduce costs and may have squeezed as much as it can out of that. Add on contractual 'penalties' (Samsung display) for not fulfilling order quotas (another sign of lost sales) and things can quickly become unstable and I believe we will look back on the 2018 refresh as the refresh that Apple 'wobbled'. There were other factors involved but, this late in the refresh, I think most will agree that pricing is the number one problem.
    So, the USA/China trade war impacts maybe 1.5 quarters of Apples business and now they will revamp their entire pricing strategy? You clearly don’t understand Apple. Next few quarter the iPhone will account for > 50% of Apple revenue. Then you can move the goal posts and create a different narrative.

    You realize that we have heard that Apples prices are to high for 30 years? Mac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Watch, AirPods have all been to expensive to succeed. Yet, here we are with the same fluff from people that dont get it while Apple grows its base and the ecosystem thrives. 


  • Reply 57 of 60
    clarker99 said:
    wlee2019 said:
    To be honest I’m surprised the decline isn’t greater in Europe. I have changed from an iPhone and most of those I know have too, the primary reason being cost. There is no doubting iPhones are good phones but now so are android and on neither side is there a phone that is so great it should cost £1000.

    i am now using a Samsung a50 which didn’t cost all that much and it does everything I need a phone to do very well. In fact it does it so well I can’t see why I should spend 749 let alone a grand on a phone. 

    I get that Apple are keen to keep profit margins and not panic the market but if services is where they see their growth coming they surely need a growing user base or that too will stagnate. 
    So many miss the fact that the iOS install base is growing. So, there goes your argument. The grey market is servicing the low to mid level iPhone market. Apple keeps high end prices where they are to prop up the prices of the ever growing grey market. Apples devices last and are supported for 5yrs or more. They have over 900,000,000 active iPhones in the wild and that number is growing. Also, the XR is the #1 selling phone for the last few quarters but yes price is the issue. Samsung selling more $200 ASP phones than Apple selling $750-$1000 Phones is a hilarious comparison. 
    Ok, I’ll bite, give me the link for your evidence that the iOS install base is currently growing in Europe which is what we are currently discussing. I don’t think you can because the statistics do not reflect that and I don’t think that the ipads improving sales mitigate the falling sales of the iPhone. Of course there is the other stat that people are holding onto phones for longer but I personally don’t see that. People continue buying but they are more informed and looking for more value now. 

    It’s interesting that the top 5 phones for the last quarter came out and 3 of the 5 were a series galaxies (the a50 which I have was the top seller), the public seems to be more open to lower cost devices and that is reflecting in sales, whereas once the top 5 was filled with flagships the only one in the top 5 this time was the iPhone XR at 5th. 

    I’m not trying to bash Apple, personally I think the iPads are brilliant and would only have an iPad as a tablet as Android don’t support tablets well enough with updates. In the phone though I am quite happy with an android until either Apple have a quality product that justifies the price in my view or they release a phone around the £500 mark that isn’t already old. That’s just my views but they seem reflective of the wider consumer trends in Europe currently. 
    muthuk_vanalingamavon b7
  • Reply 58 of 60
    wlee2019 said:
    clarker99 said:
    wlee2019 said:
    To be honest I’m surprised the decline isn’t greater in Europe. I have changed from an iPhone and most of those I know have too, the primary reason being cost. There is no doubting iPhones are good phones but now so are android and on neither side is there a phone that is so great it should cost £1000.

    i am now using a Samsung a50 which didn’t cost all that much and it does everything I need a phone to do very well. In fact it does it so well I can’t see why I should spend 749 let alone a grand on a phone. 

    I get that Apple are keen to keep profit margins and not panic the market but if services is where they see their growth coming they surely need a growing user base or that too will stagnate. 
    So many miss the fact that the iOS install base is growing. So, there goes your argument. The grey market is servicing the low to mid level iPhone market. Apple keeps high end prices where they are to prop up the prices of the ever growing grey market. Apples devices last and are supported for 5yrs or more. They have over 900,000,000 active iPhones in the wild and that number is growing. Also, the XR is the #1 selling phone for the last few quarters but yes price is the issue. Samsung selling more $200 ASP phones than Apple selling $750-$1000 Phones is a hilarious comparison. 
    Ok, I’ll bite, give me the link for your evidence that the iOS install base is currently growing in Europe which is what we are currently discussing. I don’t think you can because the statistics do not reflect that and I don’t think that the ipads improving sales mitigate the falling sales of the iPhone. Of course there is the other stat that people are holding onto phones for longer but I personally don’t see that. People continue buying but they are more informed and looking for more value now. 

    It’s interesting that the top 5 phones for the last quarter came out and 3 of the 5 were a series galaxies (the a50 which I have was the top seller), the public seems to be more open to lower cost devices and that is reflecting in sales, whereas once the top 5 was filled with flagships the only one in the top 5 this time was the iPhone XR at 5th. 

    I’m not trying to bash Apple, personally I think the iPads are brilliant and would only have an iPad as a tablet as Android don’t support tablets well enough with updates. In the phone though I am quite happy with an android until either Apple have a quality product that justifies the price in my view or they release a phone around the £500 mark that isn’t already old. That’s just my views but they seem reflective of the wider consumer trends in Europe currently. 
    Neil Cybert live tweeting the latest earnings call: 

    https://twitter.com/neilcybart/status/1156314280897257473?s=21

  • Reply 59 of 60
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,339member
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:


    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    From a European perspective and the Spanish market in particular I think Apple has two root problems.

    One is that, generally speaking, you don't see switchers from Android to iOS but you do see switchers from iOS to Android. Android switching (to other Androids) is seen as a plus as users get a lot to choose from and choice is important. Most Apple retail stores are visited by Apple users, not Android users looking to switch. It means that they already have an iDevice but if what is on offer is not compelling enough or too expensive, Apple misses out on the sale (which could be temporary or permanent).

    The other point is clearly the price of entry. Many (myself included) are simply turned off by the price tag. On top of that you don't get the 'value' that most of us look for in any purchase. The good news here is that the fix is easy as long as Apple decides to implement it.

    Apart from that, Samsung and Huawei are traditional heavy hitters with something for everyone in every price band. And now, both Oppo and especially Xiaomi are establishing distribution, support and service here making them attractive propositions too. Huawei has its largest Huawei retail store outside China in Madrid. 

    For visibility Samsung takes the biscuit with Huawei not far behind. Apple isn't invisible but perhaps is overly reliant on the Apple retail operations. There are 'campaigns' but there isn't really much to 'sell'. We had the photography and battery duration campaigns but most people already take for granted that Huawei and Samsung are kings of the hill on those fronts, which in turn puts them on the radars of iOS users. Mainstream press has more news on Android technology simply because there is much more of it and the flow is constant.

    With the possible exception of the UK, I think it's now harder for Apple in the EU.

    The 'good enough' factor is very real and for good reason. However, it impacts all manufacturers and not just Apple.

    In spite of everything, iPhones are a common sight but I still see more older iPhones (heads and chins) than newer notched variants. How old is hard to tell and it is impossible to know if those users will stay on iOS or switch when it comes to upgrading.

    All I can say is that competition (for everyone) is very intense and if you have a limited product spread at high prices (factor in 21% sales tax to every phone) you will find it harder to sell your products.

    Let's not forget either that I'm speaking about iPhones here, not other Apple products.

    I think price drops across the iPhone line would definitely help more than any other course of action. Whether they happen or not is anybody's guess.
    This looks to be the death spiral of Android OEM's trading margins for marketshare, and, ultimately, low profitability. Proof of that is that the iPhone XR is selling better by far than any other Android OS flagships, per the graphic in the post. Given that Xaomi is seeing huge growth driven by its stated goal of a 5% profit cap, I can't imagine more than a few Android OS device makers surviving even a weak recession in the future.

    Yeah, but fucking marketshare rules!
    How an iPhone X series phone sells with regards to other flagships is irrelevant. 

    There is a low, mid and high segment in the overall handset market and it is the market - as a whole - which will determine how things play out for each manufacturer.

    There will be convergence (it is already happening) but your handset marketshare will play a vital role in your economies of scale as long as the product remains a major revenue earner. Pushing unit prices up can only go so far before customers literally stop buying. When that happens, what do you do?

    Since 2017 Apple has tried a couple of options. They were the easier options and worth trying first but with such a sloth-like cycle, it takes time to evaluate the results.

    In one foul swoop they introduced a third new model (with ultra premium pricing) and opened up the overall product spread to its widest ever. They followed that with what users perceived as across the board price increases for relatively little return on the hardware.

    Three years of flat sales, a profit warning, discounting and now iPhone revenue dropping below 50% of company revenues. The iPhone remains the top Apple product and will be pored over at an executive level to find ways to reverse the course of the last four years.

    I think price reductions will be part of the plan.

    There is no problem having an ultra high priced phone as long as your bread and butter offerings are 'selling'. If they don't hold up the bottom line your vertically integrated operations just get more expensive. Apple has been pushing component suppliers to reduce costs and may have squeezed as much as it can out of that. Add on contractual 'penalties' (Samsung display) for not fulfilling order quotas (another sign of lost sales) and things can quickly become unstable and I believe we will look back on the 2018 refresh as the refresh that Apple 'wobbled'. There were other factors involved but, this late in the refresh, I think most will agree that pricing is the number one problem.
    So, the USA/China trade war impacts maybe 1.5 quarters of Apples business and now they will revamp their entire pricing strategy? You clearly don’t understand Apple. Next few quarter the iPhone will account for > 50% of Apple revenue. Then you can move the goal posts and create a different narrative.

    You realize that we have heard that Apples prices are to high for 30 years? Mac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Watch, AirPods have all been to expensive to succeed. Yet, here we are with the same fluff from people that dont get it while Apple grows its base and the ecosystem thrives. 


    Perhaps you didn't read my post to the end:

    "There were other factors involved but, this late in the refresh, I think most will agree that pricing is the number one problem."

    One of those other factors was the trade war.

    As I made clear, Apple can go as high as it wants on price. It wasn't even first to the $1,000 band. It is nothing new.

    The point though, was that you need the lower tiered devices to perform (sales) if your top end loses steam and that looks like what happened. The top end fell well short of expectations and the discounting and trade-in improvements were applicable to the XR too, indicating that those sales didn't meet expectations either.

    Adding all these things together make me think a price adjustment would be both easy to implement and well received by purchasers. Another option is to keep prices more or less the same and market them as having more with no price increase. 'hey, your $749 XR now gets you a dual camera and a 20W battery charger'! I think that would be a huge error at this point in time.

    It's only speculation but I've provided my grounds for it. We can't know for sure and it's not unreasonable to think that even within Apple there isn't consensus on what to do.
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