Apple & Ireland head to court to battle $14.4B EU back tax on Sept. 17

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    gwydion said:
    " with rules forbidding individual member states from offering companies benefits not available elsewhere in the EU."

    No, what is not allowed is offering benefits not available to other companies
    No, that's not what the law states.   It simply forbids one EU country from taking advantage of EU benefits while undermining the EU for its own advantage.
  • Reply 22 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    gwydion said:
    Keep dragging this out until Brexit finally happens, then Ireland will be be begging for Apple’s business there.
    What has to do Brexit with Ireland?
    It's pretty central to the whole debacle.   Ireland is and will remain part of the EU with all the privileges and benefits that that entails.   If the rest of the UK breaks away from the EU they will lose those benefits -- and be blocked from the EU state of Ireland -- that's what "The BackStop" is all about.

    The Leaves want to break away but without any backstop or restrictions on interactions with Ireland.
    The EU says, "no way!".   If you leave you leave and, if they have to, they'll put up a hard border between Ireland the rest of the UK.

    The Leaves, led by Boris Johnson, are threatening to leave without any agreement at all -- probably to intimidate the EU into giving up their demand that the UK can't leave the EU but maintain the benefits of being in the EU through open borders with Ireland.   Currently, not only is the EU promising to block that, but also the UK's MPs are say they will block it.  Plus, the Jeremy Corbin is suggesting a vote of No-Confidence in Boris Johnson since a "No Deal Brexit" is not what he promised which would trigger a new election to replace Boris Johnson and his government.
    edited August 2019
  • Reply 23 of 27
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    bb-15 said:
    Wikipedia has an informative summary of the case between Ireland, the EU & Apple titled;

    ”EU illegal State aid case against Apple in Ireland”

    - Essentially the EU Commission is using a technicality in the “Double Irish” system. 
    Apple did not use the standard Double Irish structure of having two companies. Instead Apple had two divisions within the same company.
    - There is no clear evidence that Apple’s version of the Double Irish was better (in terms of reduced taxes) than many other companies in Ireland using the standard Double Irish such as by Microsoft or Google. 

    - Why is the EU trying to meddle with Ireland’s tax structure?
    For political reasons.
    The EU system of high taxes funds a huge selection of benefits as well as generous pensions & month long + vacations. But the EU economically is under tremendous strain. 
    Result; the plans to target US companies for much higher taxes (such as by France).

    - Why is Ireland resisting the EU? To avoid the eventual elimination of all tax advantages in Ireland which would lead to a mass exodus of multinational corporations from the country & an economic depression in Ireland. 
    The Wikipedia article explains;

    ”...in § Understanding Irish decision, US–controlled multinationals are 25 of Ireland's top 50 companies; pay over 80% of all Irish corporate taxes (circa €8 billion per annum); directly employ 25 per cent of the Irish labour force (and indirectly pay half of all Irish salary taxes); and are 57 per cent of all non-farm OECD value-add in the Irish economy. In June 2018, the American–Ireland Chamber of Commerce estimated the value of US investment in Ireland was €334 billion, exceeding Irish GDP (€291 billion in 2016)... The cost of US multinationals abandoning Ireland as a US corporate–tax haven, would greatly exceed the EU's €13 billion "windfall".”


    No, EU is after Ireland for giving a secret deal to a single company, it has nothing to do with Irealnd tax system as explicitly is said in the ruling
    gatorguy
  • Reply 24 of 27
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    gwydion said:
    " with rules forbidding individual member states from offering companies benefits not available elsewhere in the EU."

    No, what is not allowed is offering benefits not available to other companies
    No, that's not what the law states.   It simply forbids one EU country from taking advantage of EU benefits while undermining the EU for its own advantage.
    Wrong
  • Reply 25 of 27
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    gwydion said:
    Keep dragging this out until Brexit finally happens, then Ireland will be be begging for Apple’s business there.
    What has to do Brexit with Ireland?
    It's pretty central to the whole debacle.   Ireland is and will remain part of the EU with all the privileges and benefits that that entails.   If the rest of the UK breaks away from the EU they will lose those benefits -- and be blocked from the EU state of Ireland -- that's what "The BackStop" is all about.

    The Leaves want to break away but without any backstop or restrictions on interactions with Ireland.
    The EU says, "no way!".   If you leave you leave and, if they have to, they'll put up a hard border between Ireland the rest of the UK.

    The Leaves, led by Boris Johnson, are threatening to leave without any agreement at all -- probably to intimidate the EU into giving up their demand that the UK can't leave the EU but maintain the benefits of being in the EU through open borders with Ireland.   Currently, not only is the EU promising to block that, but also the UK's MPs are say they will block it.  Plus, the Jeremy Corbin is suggesting a vote of No-Confidence in Boris Johnson since a "No Deal Brexit" is not what he promised which would trigger a new election to replace Boris Johnson and his government.
    The rest of UK?

    Ireland IS NOT park of UK
  • Reply 26 of 27
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 283member
    gwydion said:
    bb-15 said:
    Wikipedia has an informative summary of the case between Ireland, the EU & Apple titled;

    ”EU illegal State aid case against Apple in Ireland”

    - Essentially the EU Commission is using a technicality in the “Double Irish” system. 
    Apple did not use the standard Double Irish structure of having two companies. Instead Apple had two divisions within the same company.
    - There is no clear evidence that Apple’s version of the Double Irish was better (in terms of reduced taxes) than many other companies in Ireland using the standard Double Irish such as by Microsoft or Google. 

    - Why is the EU trying to meddle with Ireland’s tax structure?
    For political reasons.
    The EU system of high taxes funds a huge selection of benefits as well as generous pensions & month long + vacations. But the EU economically is under tremendous strain. 
    Result; the plans to target US companies for much higher taxes (such as by France).

    - Why is Ireland resisting the EU? To avoid the eventual elimination of all tax advantages in Ireland which would lead to a mass exodus of multinational corporations from the country & an economic depression in Ireland. 
    The Wikipedia article explains;

    ”...in § Understanding Irish decision, US–controlled multinationals are 25 of Ireland's top 50 companies; pay over 80% of all Irish corporate taxes (circa €8 billion per annum); directly employ 25 per cent of the Irish labour force (and indirectly pay half of all Irish salary taxes); and are 57 per cent of all non-farm OECD value-add in the Irish economy. In June 2018, the American–Ireland Chamber of Commerce estimated the value of US investment in Ireland was €334 billion, exceeding Irish GDP (€291 billion in 2016)... The cost of US multinationals abandoning Ireland as a US corporate–tax haven, would greatly exceed the EU's €13 billion "windfall".”


    No, EU is after Ireland for giving a secret deal to a single company, it has nothing to do with Irealnd tax system as explicitly is said in the ruling
    The first part of what you wrote does not contradict the information in the Wikipedia article. 
    - It is true that Ireland & Apple set up a secret double Irish system compared with all other companies. 
    - Where you are wrong is saying that the case has nothing to do with Ireland’s taxes & Apple. It absolutely does. 

    From the article; the European Union General Court to hear Apple's appeal on September 17 and 18. The second-highest tribunal on the continent, it will hear arguments from Apple and Ireland fighting against the European Commission's ruling Apple had been given "illegal state aid" to avoid paying taxes.” 

    The case is about paying taxes. And the EU Commission was able to go after Apple because the double Irish system set up for the company was different compared with all the other companies. 
    Again, to understand this, I suggest you read the Wikipedia article which I mentioned/quoted/summarized in my previous comment. 
    edited August 2019
  • Reply 27 of 27
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    gwydion said:
    Keep dragging this out until Brexit finally happens, then Ireland will be be begging for Apple’s business there.
    What has to do Brexit with Ireland?
    Quite a lot, the UK is Ireland's biggest trading partner and its only land border, which brings a raft of complications and is largely responsible for the current impasse in Brexit negotiations.
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