Will Apple Be Forced Out Of China?

SpamSandwich

President Trump just tweeted that he’s telling US companies they need to start looking at bringing manufacturing back to the US in light of retaliatory Chinese tariffs. Might a direct order to pull US companies out of China bd far off?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1164914959131848705?s=21

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1164914960046133249?s=21

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1164914962529247232?s=21

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1164914963766546435?s=21

mike wuerthele

If this escalates out of control, it will be deleted. Regardless of it not being attached to a story, the forum rules are still in play.

This isn't something that the POTUS can "hereby order."

edited August 2019

spamsandwich

Mike Wuerthele said:

If this escalates out of control, it will be deleted. Regardless of it not being attached to a story, the forum rules are still in play.

This isn't something that the POTUS can "hereby order."

I haven’t seen any regular posters respond either way yet, but it’s certainly pertinent to Apple and all American companies in China when the Commander-in-Chief is now bluntly saying:  

“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

If the President issues a declaration as part of his role as head of national security, it will absolutely happen just as sure as a targeted military strike might happen.

As we know, back in late July, Apple was told they would not be exempted from the effects of tariffs:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/trump-says-apple-will-not-be-given-tariff-waivers-or-relief-for-mac-pro-parts-made-in-china.html

edited August 2019

mike wuerthele

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

If this escalates out of control, it will be deleted. Regardless of it not being attached to a story, the forum rules are still in play.

This isn't something that the POTUS can "hereby order."

I haven’t seen anyone respond either way yet, but it’s certainly pertinent to Apple and all American companies in China when the Commander-in-Chief is now bluntly saying:  

“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

Relevancy will vary company to company, as this is in no way a legal mandate, nor can be construed as such.

He's welcome to Tweet what he wants, but he shouldn't be surprised when he isn't heeded.

avon b7

Well, I'm pretty much lost for words. After the other day's weird tweets this is weirder still.

I think he can say goodbye to any deal under 'his watch' and the rest of us can only hope for more restraint from China.

The whole 'I hereby order ...' is not something that should be expressed via a tweet.

I suppose China will just sit things out while Time Cook bangs his head against the wall.

spamsandwich

avon b7 said:

Well, I'm pretty much lost for words. After the other day's weird tweets this is weirder still.

I think he can say goodbye to any deal under 'his watch' and the rest of us can only hope for more restraint from China.

The whole 'I hereby order ...' is not something that should be expressed via a tweet.

I suppose China will just sit things out while Time Cook bangs his head against the wall.

I imagine Cook will be doing significantly more than nothing now. If he’s not looking seriously at manufacturing alternatives, he’s not doing his job.

avon b7

I wonder if his thinking includes sending U.S rare earths to China for processing. 

spamsandwich

avon b7 said:

I wonder if his thinking includes sending U.S rare earths to China for processing. 

I know there are massive rare earth metals deposits in Afghanistan. Perhaps if the military is finally withdrawn from there some kind of deal could be reached for mining and refining there?

mike wuerthele

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

If this escalates out of control, it will be deleted. Regardless of it not being attached to a story, the forum rules are still in play.

This isn't something that the POTUS can "hereby order."

I haven’t seen any regular posters respond either way yet, but it’s certainly pertinent to Apple and all American companies in China when the Commander-in-Chief is now bluntly saying:  

“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

If the President issues a declaration as part of his role as head of national security, it will absolutely happen just as sure as a targeted military strike might happen.

As we know, back in late July, Apple was told they would not be exempted from the effects of tariffs:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/trump-says-apple-will-not-be-given-tariff-waivers-or-relief-for-mac-pro-parts-made-in-china.html

That's not how this works. There is a process to be heeded for national security orders.

spamsandwich

Mike Wuerthele said:

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

If this escalates out of control, it will be deleted. Regardless of it not being attached to a story, the forum rules are still in play.

This isn't something that the POTUS can "hereby order."

I haven’t seen any regular posters respond either way yet, but it’s certainly pertinent to Apple and all American companies in China when the Commander-in-Chief is now bluntly saying:  

“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

If the President issues a declaration as part of his role as head of national security, it will absolutely happen just as sure as a targeted military strike might happen.

As we know, back in late July, Apple was told they would not be exempted from the effects of tariffs:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/trump-says-apple-will-not-be-given-tariff-waivers-or-relief-for-mac-pro-parts-made-in-china.html

That's not how this works. There is a process to be heeded for national security orders.

That hasn’t been the case since George W. Bush. Thanks to Cheney, the power of the presidency (especially regarding national security matters) has been radically expanded and has not been reigned in. The President who followed Bush exploited this to advance many fundamentally unconstitutional laws and acts.

https://www.acslaw.org/expertforum/exploring-the-limits-of-presidential-power/

Again, if the President declares doing business in China as a national security threat (or colluding with the enemy, or what have you), all US companies, including Apple would be required to pull out.

edited August 2019

mike wuerthele

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

If this escalates out of control, it will be deleted. Regardless of it not being attached to a story, the forum rules are still in play.

This isn't something that the POTUS can "hereby order."

I haven’t seen any regular posters respond either way yet, but it’s certainly pertinent to Apple and all American companies in China when the Commander-in-Chief is now bluntly saying:  

“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

If the President issues a declaration as part of his role as head of national security, it will absolutely happen just as sure as a targeted military strike might happen.

As we know, back in late July, Apple was told they would not be exempted from the effects of tariffs:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/trump-says-apple-will-not-be-given-tariff-waivers-or-relief-for-mac-pro-parts-made-in-china.html

That's not how this works. There is a process to be heeded for national security orders.

That hasn’t been the case since George W. Bush. Thanks to Cheney, the power of the presidency (especially regarding national security matters) has been radically expanded and has not been reigned in. The President who followed Bush exploited this to advance many fundamentally unconstitutional laws and acts.

https://www.acslaw.org/expertforum/exploring-the-limits-of-presidential-power/

Again, if the President declares doing business in China as a national security threat (or colluding with the enemy, or what have you), all US companies, including Apple would be required to pull out.

Still no. I should have been more clear -- this isn't a national security concern as it stands, it's an economic one which he's made abundantly clear with his own remarks in these tweets and others. It'll take some contorting to modify it, and as it stands it won't hold up to legal challenges.

He's welcome to try it, but given that most of his own family manufacturing relies on China, it seems unlikely.

I've got a pile of stuff to do. Have a nice weekend, and everybody, please keep the thread civil and in accordance with the forum guidelines.

edited August 2019

spamsandwich

Mike Wuerthele said:

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

If this escalates out of control, it will be deleted. Regardless of it not being attached to a story, the forum rules are still in play.

This isn't something that the POTUS can "hereby order."

I haven’t seen any regular posters respond either way yet, but it’s certainly pertinent to Apple and all American companies in China when the Commander-in-Chief is now bluntly saying:  

“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

If the President issues a declaration as part of his role as head of national security, it will absolutely happen just as sure as a targeted military strike might happen.

As we know, back in late July, Apple was told they would not be exempted from the effects of tariffs:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/trump-says-apple-will-not-be-given-tariff-waivers-or-relief-for-mac-pro-parts-made-in-china.html

That's not how this works. There is a process to be heeded for national security orders.

That hasn’t been the case since George W. Bush. Thanks to Cheney, the power of the presidency (especially regarding national security matters) has been radically expanded and has not been reigned in. The President who followed Bush exploited this to advance many fundamentally unconstitutional laws and acts.

https://www.acslaw.org/expertforum/exploring-the-limits-of-presidential-power/

Again, if the President declares doing business in China as a national security threat (or colluding with the enemy, or what have you), all US companies, including Apple would be required to pull out.

Still no. I should have been more clear -- this isn't a national security concern as it stands, it's an economic one which he's made abundantly clear with his own remarks in these tweets and others. It'll take some contorting to modify it, and as it stands it won't hold up to legal challenges.

He's welcome to try it, but given that most of his own family manufacturing relies on China, it seems unlikely.

I've got a pile of stuff to do. Have a nice weekend, and everybody, please keep the thread civil and in accordance with the forum guidelines.

Agree with the ‘keep things civil’ part.  Have a good weekend.

avon b7

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

SpamSandwich said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

If this escalates out of control, it will be deleted. Regardless of it not being attached to a story, the forum rules are still in play.

This isn't something that the POTUS can "hereby order."

I haven’t seen any regular posters respond either way yet, but it’s certainly pertinent to Apple and all American companies in China when the Commander-in-Chief is now bluntly saying:  

“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

If the President issues a declaration as part of his role as head of national security, it will absolutely happen just as sure as a targeted military strike might happen.

As we know, back in late July, Apple was told they would not be exempted from the effects of tariffs:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/trump-says-apple-will-not-be-given-tariff-waivers-or-relief-for-mac-pro-parts-made-in-china.html

That's not how this works. There is a process to be heeded for national security orders.

That hasn’t been the case since George W. Bush. Thanks to Cheney, the power of the presidency (especially regarding national security matters) has been radically expanded and has not been reigned in. The President who followed Bush exploited this to advance many fundamentally unconstitutional laws and acts.

https://www.acslaw.org/expertforum/exploring-the-limits-of-presidential-power/

Again, if the President declares doing business in China as a national security threat (or colluding with the enemy, or what have you), all US companies, including Apple would be required to pull out.

Still no. I should have been more clear -- this isn't a national security concern as it stands, it's an economic one which he's made abundantly clear with his own remarks in these tweets and others. It'll take some contorting to modify it, and as it stands it won't hold up to legal challenges.

He's welcome to try it, but given that most of his own family manufacturing relies on China, it seems unlikely.

I've got a pile of stuff to do. Have a nice weekend, and everybody, please keep the thread civil and in accordance with the forum guidelines.

Agree with the ‘keep things civil’ part.  Have a good weekend.

Fingers crossed. I'm off out for a meal by the sea and drinks into the early hours. Enjoy!

Hope the world hasn't ended by the time I get home!

dm3

As much as I disagree with this president, I tend to agree with him re China.

But for Apple, and as large a manufacturing operation and supply chain as is required for its products, I don't see how Apple can realistically make any quick adjustments. If this further turns into an all out take-no-prisioners war, I could imagine China stopping shipment of Apple products or components. I don't see how Apple can do any meaningful manufacturing move that isn't measured in years to accomplish. And yet it seems abundantly clear that Apple needs to start making plans ASAP even if its a big hit to the bottom line in the short term.

Where, how could they realistically move manufacturing?

spamsandwich

dm3 said:

As much as I disagree with this president, I tend to agree with him re China.

But for Apple, and as large a manufacturing operation and supply chain as is required for its products, I don't see how Apple can realistically make any quick adjustments. If this further turns into an all out take-no-prisioners war, I could imagine China stopping shipment of Apple products or components. I don't see how Apple can do any meaningful manufacturing move that isn't measured in years to accomplish. And yet it seems abundantly clear that Apple needs to start making plans ASAP even if its a big hit to the bottom line in the short term.

Where, how could they realistically move manufacturing?

Questions they should’ve set about answering several years ago, IMO. Tim and the Apple board can only ignore reality for so long.

spheric

SpamSandwich said:

dm3 said:

As much as I disagree with this president, I tend to agree with him re China.

But for Apple, and as large a manufacturing operation and supply chain as is required for its products, I don't see how Apple can realistically make any quick adjustments. If this further turns into an all out take-no-prisioners war, I could imagine China stopping shipment of Apple products or components. I don't see how Apple can do any meaningful manufacturing move that isn't measured in years to accomplish. And yet it seems abundantly clear that Apple needs to start making plans ASAP even if its a big hit to the bottom line in the short term.

Where, how could they realistically move manufacturing?

Questions they should’ve set about answering several years ago, IMO. Tim and the Apple board can only ignore reality for so long.

The "reality" is that 45 loves to declare all sorts of stuff, but has absolutely no grasp whatsoever of what power he actually has — and what he hasn't. 

Not the faintest idea.

edited August 2019