There's another reason to go a smaller and simpler iPhone. The major carriers, like Verizon, are letting their wire lines atrophy, and many households have been forced to switch to wireless. Additionally, it's obvious that many home/condo owners are switching to wireless and ditching the POTS for hand-held wireless phones. (Have you watched the size of the phone books diminish?)
To maintain a needed communications capability, one should not to be forced into a " Swiss Army Knife" type of iPhone that really should be marketed as an "iCamera." What's needed is an iPhone that's primarily a phone, with other uses secondary. The ability to communicate should be the principal design criteria, with the capability to synch with other devices.
(Written from bitter experience)
That's an interesting observation. When the iPhone first came out, the intent was to provide additional functionality to the concept of a pocket "voice" phone. Over the years this shifted more towards being an overall internet communication device, and then a content consumption device, where voice calls took a backseat. In recent years, and in the absence of any substantial ways to evolve the handheld concept further, we've shifted the priorities to making the "phone" a pseudo-replacement for a dedicated/professional camera. It's interesting how the biggest improvement in smartphone technology in recent years has primarily been in the camera, with Apple now approaching a brute force solution by adding two, and now 3 cameras on the back. Are we reaching a point where it might be logical to rename "smart-phones" to "smart-cameras"? I'm half joking, but half serious.
To quote S. Jobs: "an iPod, a phone, and an internet mobile communicator..."
But I get your point on the significant focus (no pun intended) on camera performance.
I see it a bit differently: the focus on secure biometrics (accurate biometric input with secure enclave) have provided an even more significant capability by allowing secure communication of all kinds (banking, messaging, email, Apple Pay/Cash, etc.) in the palm of your hand. Yes, you could do some of that before secure biometrics were prevalent (using a browser and typing in your passwords), but secure biometrics are a game-changer IMO.
The Apple Watch is the wild card in the small form factor mix. The Apple Watch with LTE, and eventually 5G, may eventually fill the need for a small form factor communication device that can go anywhere while demanding very little of its wearer. You'll be able to wear it nearly 24 hours a day and be totally connected at all times. Larger phones and tablets will be the personal/family computers for non work related and non industrial use and will be enhanced and augmented by seamless connectivity and integrate with all your in-home screens including your 80-inch 8K televisions and your smart home automation and ambient computing devices. Portable computers and desktops will still have their place, but will be specialty devices geared towards specific applications and use cases.
So where does a small screen smartphone like the SE (or some folk's concept of an SE2) fit in the mix? It's a step up in usability from an Apple Watch, but it's really too small and too limited to be an effective personal computing device like a large phone or tablet. But it's also too large to wear on your body 24x7, unless you're into the Flavor Flav fashion aesthetic, so it is clearly a niche product. Just because it's niche doesn't mean Apple won't do it. The iPod Touch, which is a close cousin of the iPhone SE, is a niche product but Apple continues to support it at a subdued level. In fact, as an owner of an iPod Touch 6th Gen, I do marvel at its lightness and pocketability, but trying to do anything other than playing music or games on it is a chore. The screen is just too damn small.
I'd rather see Apple invest in its Watch and getting more macOS-like capability into the iPad Pro than investing it a nostalgic small form factor smartphone. Hey, maybe they can do all of the above, but why?
I'm with you on the focus on the watch and the iPad, though if they did release a smaller phone I'd probably jump on it for now. I have AW3, iPhone 7, and 12" MacBook. I'm closely watching the progress of the watch and the iPad Pro and dreaming of the day when those will be all I have. The watch will be my phone and the iPad my working device and I won't need anything in between. Nothing in my pocket. Sure I'd have to make some sacrifices, but for me that would mostly mean no scrolling facebook at any given moment (and honestly I just need force myself out of that habit anyway). But I'm thinking my iPhone 7 won't live long enough to see me through to that day, and I'd gladly go back to something smaller (I've had a 6 and now a 7 and have never really liked the bigger size).
There are many of us that simply don't give a shit about the price and just want a small form factor phone. Apple knows this. I will simply continue to use my iPhone SE until it dies. If a new iPhoneSE is launched, I will buy it; if not, well then I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. But come hell or high water I won't be buying one of the new ones. Big phones are like big trucks, and I don't need one to justify my manliness.
My regular daily phone is an SE2, and I keep a 5s around the house for iPod Touch-like purposes, so I'd certainly prefer a fresher option in this form factor.
But I'm surprised that none of y'all have really alluded to my own crucial priority: Please DO give me a "latest innards" phone that STILL HAS TOUCH ID.
I'll adapt to the form factor. I'd actually been considering an iPhone 8 as potentially/worrryingly my last chance to get an iPhone that doesn't need to look at my face.
So I wouldn't consider these predictions the best news, but certainly better news.
I know that this is even more of a moonshot than the size being the same as the original SE, but I would instantly buy if they bring back the headphone jack. I am one of the, I assume, few people who walked away from the iPhone when it was removed. I loved my time with the 6s. With all Android phones losing the jack, it makes me hold on to my current phone while not being sure what to buy. Apple could convert me instantly back with the reintroduction of the jack.
As i see the resurgence of an SE 2, my heart lifts. I looov my se. Mucho Mucho!
The company does great design, so i’m interested to see how they tweak the build, whatever size in which that manifests.
I look forward to seeing how the a13 will benefit the overall experience for sure.
The last thing of which I am curious is the selections of all the new tech!
Wish List to Santa Cook: -haptic engine -screen quality of the 8 -camera quality of the 8 -water protection like the 8 -square sides like/similar to SE -two speakers -maybe that Coral Color of the XR -something cool from the 11 Pro -and that feeling when i hold it that says “ok, i am getting this.” 😊😊😊
My wife & others do not want a large iPhone. They all want an SE2 form factor. Easy to pocket and easy to hold. On this - I think Apple has missed the importance.
Nonsense! While that may be true for a small number of people, putting a phone in a pocketbook gives it a lot of room, even in a small pocketbook. The difference in phone size doesn’t matter. I see people with giant phones in their pockets all the time.
so e people have made up their minds they don’t want big phones, and that’s ok, but the reasons I often see presented are ridiculous.
Reasons = One-handed use, palm balance, and comfort. I use an iPhone 8 for work and an SE for home. The difference is noticeable and can be appreciated in a side-by-side comparison. My eyes are fine and I can see the smaller screen without much issue, and the beauty of the iPhone has always been the innovative "pinch-to-zoom" functionality that makes what is too small larger.
Again though, very few people want those small phones. That’s really all it comes down to.
The SE2 wasn’t a big seller, let’s remember that Apple was liquidating new stocks a couple of months ago on their refurbished store.
It was the SE. And, if you were paying attention, you would know that they sold out within minutes of the news hitting the blogs. They did that in 3 or 4 separate occasions. Each time they would sell out super fast. It shows that small phones were in great demand.
Look, the fact of the matter is that Cook is NOT a product guy. Even Steve Jobs said so. Steve would have wanted a small iPhone. He would have had just 2 sizes instead of the 4 we have now. He would have kept the small 5 or SE size and made a larger S size. THAT’S IT! Now we have fragmentation which Cook use to make fun of when Steve was still alive but now he’s doing the same because he’s clueless.
Going from an SE to an 8 is a half inch taller and a third of an inch wider? Did I figure that right? A person should be able to adjust to that in a matter of hours. My wife went from a 7 to an X and the difference is about the same as the difference between a 7 naked and a 7 with a standard case. I'm thinking people are looking at screen size differences and imagining huge differences in size.
You’re holding it wrong - Jobs
or in your case, you’re thinking wrongly. This is where people like you don’t get it. Ergonomic design doesn’t work that way. Ergonomically speaking, there’s no different between an iPad mini and an iPhone Plus or Max when held in a user’s hand. That is, you can’t really use them with just one hand. Once you get beyond a certain threshold in size, which is beyond the limitation of the average human anatomy, you might as well go to iPad size. So, a SE sized phone is about the limit of most people’s ability to easily operate the device with one hand comfortably without it dropping or reaching just about anything on the screen. Even a half and inch would destroy that. So, do you get it now???
There's another reason to go a smaller and simpler iPhone. The major carriers, like Verizon, are letting their wire lines atrophy, and many households have been forced to switch to wireless. Additionally, it's obvious that many home/condo owners are switching to wireless and ditching the POTS for hand-held wireless phones. (Have you watched the size of the phone books diminish?)
To maintain a needed communications capability, one should not to be forced into a " Swiss Army Knife" type of iPhone that really should be marketed as an "iCamera." What's needed is an iPhone that's primarily a phone, with other uses secondary. The ability to communicate should be the principal design criteria, with the capability to synch with other devices.
(Written from bitter experience)
I was not aware of Verizon letting their "wire lines atrophy". But, I suspect we will be seeing more of that. First, T-Mobile is now offering wireless home service for $50 a month. And soon, we will be seeing much more of that as 5G transmitters go up on telephone poles providing high speed, high capacity wireless home internet service. But still, I think for most people, the days of only using a phone as a phone are pretty much gone. But likewise, that doesn't mean that they want a BIG phone either: By going to a no-bezel screen like the X and 11 phones, people can have a large (enough) screen in a small form factor phone that easily fits in one hand.
My wife & others do not want a large iPhone. They all want an SE2 form factor. Easy to pocket and easy to hold. On this - I think Apple has missed the importance.
Nonsense! While that may be true for a small number of people, putting a phone in a pocketbook gives it a lot of room, even in a small pocketbook. The difference in phone size doesn’t matter. I see people with giant phones in their pockets all the time.
so e people have made up their minds they don’t want big phones, and that’s ok, but the reasons I often see presented are ridiculous.
Reasons = One-handed use, palm balance, and comfort. I use an iPhone 8 for work and an SE for home. The difference is noticeable and can be appreciated in a side-by-side comparison. My eyes are fine and I can see the smaller screen without much issue, and the beauty of the iPhone has always been the innovative "pinch-to-zoom" functionality that makes what is too small larger.
Again though, very few people want those small phones. That’s really all it comes down to.
I think you need to separate screen size from the external form factor. When all screens had bezels they increased lineraly together. But the introduction of no-bezel screens changed that equation. Now we can have both: a larg(er) screen in "small" phone.
I very much hope that this rumor is false and Apple is not dropping an A13 into an iPhone 8 and calling it an "SE" -- that would be simply propagating what is now obsolete technology. Putting a no-bezel screen into an SE sized phone gives you both a bigger screen in a smaller phone.
My wife & others do not want a large iPhone. They all want an SE2 form factor. Easy to pocket and easy to hold. On this - I think Apple has missed the importance.
Nonsense! While that may be true for a small number of people, putting a phone in a pocketbook gives it a lot of room, even in a small pocketbook. The difference in phone size doesn’t matter. I see people with giant phones in their pockets all the time.
so e people have made up their minds they don’t want big phones, and that’s ok, but the reasons I often see presented are ridiculous.
Reasons = One-handed use, palm balance, and comfort. I use an iPhone 8 for work and an SE for home. The difference is noticeable and can be appreciated in a side-by-side comparison. My eyes are fine and I can see the smaller screen without much issue, and the beauty of the iPhone has always been the innovative "pinch-to-zoom" functionality that makes what is too small larger.
Again though, very few people want those small phones. That’s really all it comes down to.
I think you need to separate screen size from the external form factor. When all screens had bezels they increased lineraly together. But the introduction of no-bezel screens changed that equation. Now we can have both: a larg(er) screen in "small" phone.
I very much hope that this rumor is false and Apple is not dropping an A13 into an iPhone 8 and calling it an "SE" -- that would be simply propagating what is now obsolete technology. Putting a no-bezel screen into an SE sized phone gives you both a bigger screen in a smaller phone.
You don’t really expect Cook to be smart enough to figure that out do you?
My wife & others do not want a large iPhone. They all want an SE2 form factor. Easy to pocket and easy to hold. On this - I think Apple has missed the importance.
Nonsense! While that may be true for a small number of people, putting a phone in a pocketbook gives it a lot of room, even in a small pocketbook. The difference in phone size doesn’t matter. I see people with giant phones in their pockets all the time.
so e people have made up their minds they don’t want big phones, and that’s ok, but the reasons I often see presented are ridiculous.
Reasons = One-handed use, palm balance, and comfort. I use an iPhone 8 for work and an SE for home. The difference is noticeable and can be appreciated in a side-by-side comparison. My eyes are fine and I can see the smaller screen without much issue, and the beauty of the iPhone has always been the innovative "pinch-to-zoom" functionality that makes what is too small larger.
Again though, very few people want those small phones. That’s really all it comes down to.
I think you need to separate screen size from the external form factor. When all screens had bezels they increased lineraly together. But the introduction of no-bezel screens changed that equation. Now we can have both: a larg(er) screen in "small" phone.
I very much hope that this rumor is false and Apple is not dropping an A13 into an iPhone 8 and calling it an "SE" -- that would be simply propagating what is now obsolete technology. Putting a no-bezel screen into an SE sized phone gives you both a bigger screen in a smaller phone.
You don’t really expect Cook to be smart enough to figure that out do you?
The SE2 wasn’t a big seller, let’s remember that Apple was liquidating new stocks a couple of months ago on their refurbished store.
It was the SE. And, if you were paying attention, you would know that they sold out within minutes of the news hitting the blogs. They did that in 3 or 4 separate occasions. Each time they would sell out super fast. It shows that small phones were in great demand.
Look, the fact of the matter is that Cook is NOT a product guy. Even Steve Jobs said so. Steve would have wanted a small iPhone. He would have had just 2 sizes instead of the 4 we have now. He would have kept the small 5 or SE size and made a larger S size. THAT’S IT! Now we have fragmentation which Cook use to make fun of when Steve was still alive but now he’s doing the same because he’s clueless.
You can’t say what the demand was without knowing how many phones were available. For a company such as Apple, who sells 200 million phones a year, even if a million SE’s sold out then, it would be nothing. Even if it were 2 million, or 3, it would mean nothing. For Apple, 30 million would be a base number, considering how few models they sell.
if you look at companies such as Samsung, who have dozens of phones, it’s different. For them, a phone that sells a million may be warranted.
Going from an SE to an 8 is a half inch taller and a third of an inch wider? Did I figure that right? A person should be able to adjust to that in a matter of hours. My wife went from a 7 to an X and the difference is about the same as the difference between a 7 naked and a 7 with a standard case. I'm thinking people are looking at screen size differences and imagining huge differences in size.
You’re holding it wrong - Jobs
or in your case, you’re thinking wrongly. This is where people like you don’t get it. Ergonomic design doesn’t work that way. Ergonomically speaking, there’s no different between an iPad mini and an iPhone Plus or Max when held in a user’s hand. That is, you can’t really use them with just one hand. Once you get beyond a certain threshold in size, which is beyond the limitation of the average human anatomy, you might as well go to iPad size. So, a SE sized phone is about the limit of most people’s ability to easily operate the device with one hand comfortably without it dropping or reaching just about anything on the screen. Even a half and inch would destroy that. So, do you get it now???
My wife & others do not want a large iPhone. They all want an SE2 form factor. Easy to pocket and easy to hold. On this - I think Apple has missed the importance.
Nonsense! While that may be true for a small number of people, putting a phone in a pocketbook gives it a lot of room, even in a small pocketbook. The difference in phone size doesn’t matter. I see people with giant phones in their pockets all the time.
so e people have made up their minds they don’t want big phones, and that’s ok, but the reasons I often see presented are ridiculous.
Reasons = One-handed use, palm balance, and comfort. I use an iPhone 8 for work and an SE for home. The difference is noticeable and can be appreciated in a side-by-side comparison. My eyes are fine and I can see the smaller screen without much issue, and the beauty of the iPhone has always been the innovative "pinch-to-zoom" functionality that makes what is too small larger.
Again though, very few people want those small phones. That’s really all it comes down to.
I think you need to separate screen size from the external form factor. When all screens had bezels they increased lineraly together. But the introduction of no-bezel screens changed that equation. Now we can have both: a larg(er) screen in "small" phone.
I very much hope that this rumor is false and Apple is not dropping an A13 into an iPhone 8 and calling it an "SE" -- that would be simply propagating what is now obsolete technology. Putting a no-bezel screen into an SE sized phone gives you both a bigger screen in a smaller phone.
Except that there is no evidence that enough people want that. Why do you think Apple discontinued the model rather than continuing to update it? If it was so popular, Apple would have known that. But as I said above, those who want these small phones have an outsized representation, because they lurk in all the forums, and come out when this topic comes up. We see a number of people here who are new, and joined just for this topic. It’s the same with the keyboard people. They tried to make it sound that many millions wanted them, but they didn’t. I’m convinced the same is true for a small phone. Some people want one, but not enough.
My wife & others do not want a large iPhone. They all want an SE2 form factor. Easy to pocket and easy to hold. On this - I think Apple has missed the importance.
Nonsense! While that may be true for a small number of people, putting a phone in a pocketbook gives it a lot of room, even in a small pocketbook. The difference in phone size doesn’t matter. I see people with giant phones in their pockets all the time.
so e people have made up their minds they don’t want big phones, and that’s ok, but the reasons I often see presented are ridiculous.
Reasons = One-handed use, palm balance, and comfort. I use an iPhone 8 for work and an SE for home. The difference is noticeable and can be appreciated in a side-by-side comparison. My eyes are fine and I can see the smaller screen without much issue, and the beauty of the iPhone has always been the innovative "pinch-to-zoom" functionality that makes what is too small larger.
Again though, very few people want those small phones. That’s really all it comes down to.
I think you need to separate screen size from the external form factor. When all screens had bezels they increased lineraly together. But the introduction of no-bezel screens changed that equation. Now we can have both: a larg(er) screen in "small" phone.
I very much hope that this rumor is false and Apple is not dropping an A13 into an iPhone 8 and calling it an "SE" -- that would be simply propagating what is now obsolete technology. Putting a no-bezel screen into an SE sized phone gives you both a bigger screen in a smaller phone.
You don’t really expect Cook to be smart enough to figure that out do you?
I think Cook is smart enough to know that few people want one of these, and so won’t produce one.
Comments
The company does great design, so i’m interested to see how they tweak the build, whatever size in which that manifests.
I look forward to seeing how the a13 will benefit the overall experience for sure.
The last thing of which I am curious is the selections of all the new tech!
Wish List to Santa Cook:
-haptic engine
-screen quality of the 8
-camera quality of the 8
-water protection like the 8
-square sides like/similar to SE
-two speakers
-maybe that Coral Color of the XR
-something cool from the 11 Pro
-and that feeling when i hold it that says “ok, i am getting this.” 😊😊😊
Gracias.
ps: of course, at the moment it is iPhone 8 and iPad Pro, so Apple still has two sales. But still, I would like a more compact phone.
Look, the fact of the matter is that Cook is NOT a product guy. Even Steve Jobs said so. Steve would have wanted a small iPhone. He would have had just 2 sizes instead of the 4 we have now. He would have kept the small 5 or SE size and made a larger S size. THAT’S IT! Now we have fragmentation which Cook use to make fun of when Steve was still alive but now he’s doing the same because he’s clueless.
You’re holding it wrong - Jobs
or in your case, you’re thinking wrongly. This is where people like you don’t get it. Ergonomic design doesn’t work that way. Ergonomically speaking, there’s no different between an iPad mini and an iPhone Plus or Max when held in a user’s hand. That is, you can’t really use them with just one hand. Once you get beyond a certain threshold in size, which is beyond the limitation of the average human anatomy, you might as well go to iPad size. So, a SE sized phone is about the limit of most people’s ability to easily operate the device with one hand comfortably without it dropping or reaching just about anything on the screen. Even a half and inch would destroy that. So, do you get it now???
if you look at companies such as Samsung, who have dozens of phones, it’s different. For them, a phone that sells a million may be warranted.
Yes, there is. How do you not know that?
Except that there is no evidence that enough people want that. Why do you think Apple discontinued the model rather than continuing to update it? If it was so popular, Apple would have known that. But as I said above, those who want these small phones have an outsized representation, because they lurk in all the forums, and come out when this topic comes up. We see a number of people here who are new, and joined just for this topic. It’s the same with the keyboard people. They tried to make it sound that many millions wanted them, but they didn’t. I’m convinced the same is true for a small phone. Some people want one, but not enough.
I think Cook is smart enough to know that few people want one of these, and so won’t produce one.